Believe Key Sold Out

[kelmac284]

I'm in NorCal too. But my visits are no longer frequent enough to justify a pass of any kind.

You can thank your (local) fellow MKeys for your situation. You're using the pass as it was intended to be used. Reserving only for days you KNOW you'll be there. People close enough to 'drop in' are the ones (IMO) that are 'hoarding' reservations in advance 'just in case' they may want to go. As always, the innocent suffer for what the 'guilty' do.

I did the 'hold your breath and hope' when we booked for WDW last Spring, although their availability calendar is open MUCH farther out than DL's is. But I get it. I normally book longer trips minimum 6 months in advance. Maybe I'll have to rethink that if the reservations are only available 90 days out.

completely agree. I feel like the locals are booking their days 7 at a time and the minute they use one they book the next one. If you do this you could literally book every single day and just go on at midnight the night before and cancel it. I am hoping that it changes after the holidays but I agree with you. We bought AP's because we knew we had 3 trips this coming year and economically it worked for us. We went in Sept and of course couldn't upgrade till the very last day so couldn't use any of the discounts and such for our 4 day trip. We wanted the monthly payments but of course it didn't work and charged us the entire balance. We live in CA so we did qualify but after going to Guest Relations in the park and to the ticket booth we just finally gave up. It was a real mess and then RIGHT after that my youngest ironically got into the Disney College Program back in Florida. She never even got to use her pass and esp since they charged us that entire amount up front she could have used it. We called but they would not refund and she will not even get to use ONE day of it. I so miss the days of being able to just go. I personally don't see that the crowds are any better than before these reservations and I feel like I got ripped off. At least before you could GO. Part of the good thing about having a pass is you COULD go on a whim. Like you we always bought them if we KNEW we were going to go on enough trips during the year to justify it ( usually 3). BUT if we had it and the opportunity arose it was nice to know we COULD do an impromptu trip. I agree that when the locals who CAN book and then just dump the reservations book up all the days then the rest of us couldn't go even if we wanted to. For me I have to book airfare and hotels so there is no last minute trips. Even if I decided I wanted to go in a few weeks I have to plan ahead. It's really a bummer and sadly it is getting more and more to the point that we may not be able to go at all.

 

[Disney0010]

Disney made the rules for the MK. People who decide to book reservations have that right regardless of where they live. If anyone doesn’t like the MK rules then tell Disney but don’t blame people for staying within the rules of the program. I envy those that live close enough that they can drop by for an afternoon or evening.

I'm in NorCal too. But my visits are no longer frequent enough to justify a pass of any kind.

You can thank your (local) fellow MKeys for your situation. You're using the pass as it was intended to be used. Reserving only for days you KNOW you'll be there. People close enough to 'drop in' are the ones (IMO) that are 'hoarding' reservations in advance 'just in case' they may want to go. As always, the innocent suffer for what the 'guilty' do.

I did the 'hold your breath and hope' when we booked for WDW last Spring, although their availability calendar is open MUCH farther out than DL's is. But I get it. I normally book longer trips minimum 6 months in advance. Maybe I'll have to rethink that if the reservations are only available 90 days out.

 

[kelmac284]

Disney made the rules for the MK. People who decide to book reservations have that right regardless of where they live. If anyone doesn’t like the MK rules then tell Disney but don’t blame people for staying within the rules of the program. I envy those that live close enough that they can drop by for an afternoon or evening.

This has been an ongoing thing for years. People going round and round about who is "entitled" to go and who isn't. At the end of the day it is a FACT that if you are a local AP you get MUCH more out of your pass than anyone else who buys one because if I pay 1000 for a pass and go the exact number of days to make it "break even". then that is all I am getting out of it. I can't afford to go down more than about 2 or 3 times a year. I can't be taking off work nor afford the airfare, hotel etc. But if you live locally bottom line you can drive there and I know some of the higher passes include parking or at least it is discounted. But after the parking and maybe a meal or two that is all they are spending and after they go the amount of times to "break even" every day after is basically free. At the end of the day those of us that don't live close enough to go any time we want are still paying a LOT to go. And yes it is frustrating when we now have spent the same amount for a pass as someone who is local and then can't even get in! So yes it does seem quite unfair. I get that they are only doing what they are entitled to do but you have to see that it is MUCH easier for locals to book up days at a time and then just dump them last minute then the rest of us. Plus before this 90 day window I could book a trip much farther in advance. I see posts constantly about locals who say they go 2 or 3 times a week or more. So yes for those of us who are not local it does sting when we paid the same amount but can't even get a reservation because we have to plan much farther ahead and to hear that others are going several times a week because they can. It does seem very unfair and I guess it doesn't matter what the rest of us think because if they keep this up the locals will have all the AP's and anyone who isn't is stuck paying full price.

 

[Disney0010]

I live two hours away and we go a couple of days a month. I knew this going in before spending the money. Sounds like some would be better off not buying the AP.

 

[Dory92130]

It's not like there wasn't a reservation system in place before MK went on sale. Disney hasn't changed the rules of booking since release either.

Yes, Disney sets the guardrails and they set the bucket sizes. Out of town passholders have a workaround -- stay onsite. No sold out dates. Not being shut out completely. We'll be up there Sunday and monday with an overnight using our MK passes.

Come on over and enjoy the 90 minute waits this week with us.

 

[modavi]

I understand that it can be challenging to reserve certain dates with the keys. Is the booking still a problem for people without keys simply buying day passes? Do they come from the same pool of reservations?

 

[kelmac284]

I understand that it can be challenging to reserve certain dates with the keys. Is the booking still a problem for people without keys simply buying day passes? Do they come from the same pool of reservations?

No they have much more availability.

 

[StormyCA]

Yes, Disney set the rules and I agree MKeys are not technically 'breaking' the rules.

But I don't think Disney's intent in giving MKeys a certain number of reservations was for them to book all their allotted slots without a specific plan to attend on those dates. I call that hoarding, others may think it's fine to do.

I see it like the recent TP scramble. Sure, you could buy a pallet of TP (book all your slots) 'just in case' there was a shortage. Then when there was a shortage created in whole or in part by hoarding (no reservation availability) others couldn't get any TP at all (reservations), stores had empty shelves (Disney shut down Dreams/Believes). If people hadn't 'hoarded' TP (reservations), chances are there would have been enough for all.

This is ONLY MY OPINION and obviously we all have our various points of view.

 

[Geemo]

Yes, Disney set the rules and I agree MKeys are not technically 'breaking' the rules.

But I don't think Disney's intent in giving MKeys a certain number of reservations was for them to book all their allotted slots without a specific plan to attend on those dates. I call that hoarding, others may think it's fine to do.

I see it like the recent TP scramble. Sure, you could buy a pallet of TP (book all your slots) 'just in case' there was a shortage. Then when there was a shortage created in whole or in part by hoarding (no reservation availability) others couldn't get any TP at all (reservations), stores had empty shelves (Disney shut down Dreams/Believes). If people hadn't 'hoarded' TP (reservations), chances are there would have been enough for all.

This is ONLY MY OPINION and obviously we all have our various points of view.

Right now I think it might be easier to get TP than it is a reservation to Disneyland.

 

[Dory92130]

Unless we have minutes of the decision makers on their intention on reservations, it's really guessing and opinions of others.

If the suits were upset, they'd make close in cancellations more stringently enforced and even more restrictive. They haven't.

Shaming MK holders for doing what are within the rules is a bit much. So if the Limit of TP is 2 packages at costco and one buys the limit, feel free to shame them too for following the rules.

 

[emmybee]

My family's typical pattern has been to go to DL a couple of times a year. 5 days for one trip, maybe a 3 day another. In 2019, we had our one and only AP. It was marvelous, but expensive, because "budget" isn't in our vocabulary. We debated renewing in 2020, and we really lucked out when we decided against it. Prior to the Keys coming out, we looked at what was being sold, and frankly, it sounded like garbage. There simply is no comparison b/w an AP where one could show up on a whim, and a Key for which one had to make reservations and were subjected to the limits of a level's "bucket." There is no way that I wanted to buy into the most expensive tier with the potential to be locked out due to demand...I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that exactly what is happening?

I'm not against the reservation system, per se, but it definitely keeps me from buying into any kind of Keys system as it stands. At least that's good news for my bank account!

 

[gelatoni fan]

My family's typical pattern has been to go to DL a couple of times a year. 5 days for one trip, maybe a 3 day another. In 2019, we had our one and only AP. It was marvelous, but expensive, because "budget" isn't in our vocabulary. We debated renewing in 2020, and we really lucked out when we decided against it. Prior to the Keys coming out, we looked at what was being sold, and frankly, it sounded like garbage. There simply is no comparison b/w an AP where one could show up on a whim, and a Key for which one had to make reservations and were subjected to the limits of a level's "bucket." There is no way that I wanted to buy into the most expensive tier with the potential to be locked out due to demand...I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that exactly what is happening?

I'm not against the reservation system, per se, but it definitely keeps me from buying into any kind of Keys system as it stands. At least that's good news for my bank account!

While you could say that people are being locked out due to demand, I'd also say that people are being locked out due to Disney artificially limiting supply of reservations for Magic Keys. Most days, there's availability for other types of tickets but not Magic Keys.

This artificial contraction of supply leads to customers feeling like there is a shortage and makes people hoard which exacerbates the problem. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. Unless Disney can convince Keyholders that they will always be able to get the reservations they want, Keyholders will feel the need to hoard which actually creates a need to hoard. The global toilet paper panic of 2020 shows that when people see others hoard something and see it not available in stores, they will start to hoard it themselves. In most of the world, there weren't any actual supply issues with toilet paper at that time.

 

[Dory92130]

So what's the solution? Asking/shaming MK holders simply won't work. How would that play out if Disney starts that campaign?

There's a work around with staying onsite for all visitors, including MK holders. That may not be the best solution; but it's a viable one for out of towners who have to plan between 1-60 days.

Since Disney has confirmed that reservations will not be going away anytime soon, my guess is they will adjust the MK program at renewals at this rate.

 

[PirateBrigade]

Speculative booking has always been a thing and a feature to be used. I remember just booking random, aspirational dates with the Flex pass... did I have the intent to go? Of course! Was it realistic? Probably not. It also doesn't require a lot of mental gymnastics to solemnly swear that you had every intent to go, but cancel at 11:59pm because your left great toe was feeling funny.

I do this with DVC -- reservations are scarce < 7 months, so I throw spaghetti at the wall 7-11 months before a trip and hope it lines up when it actually works out. DVD probably intended people to book first and build their vacations around that, but I'm a creature of Disneyland... we don't do that kind of planning here.

This isn't without consequence, users tie up one of their allotted reservations, or I tie up points with very real expiration consequences in the case of DVC.

FWIW, Disney already has good data on cancellation rates, so they can adjust their caps accordingly. If the show-up rate was 100%, they'd just dial back the # of reservations to the desired #. IMO, aspirational reservations don't greatly impact the user experience. Disney is 100% to blame -- they oversold an underpriced product. Anyone with a DIS post count > 10 could have told you that.

 

[StormyCA]

So what's the solution? Asking/shaming MK holders simply won't work. How would that play out if Disney starts that campaign?

There's a work around with staying onsite for all visitors, including MK holders. That may not be the best solution; but it's a viable one for out of towners who have to plan between 1-60 days.

Since Disney has confirmed that reservations will not be going away anytime soon, my guess is they will adjust the MK program at renewals at this rate.

There are many people for whom staying onsite is not a 'viable' option. Right now a 1 night stay at PPH is $443.00 tax included. Not everyone can afford to pay upwards of $400 per night for a hotel.

 

[twitch]

I’m not so sure that local Dream Keyholders can actually do what some are suggesting in this thread. (FTR, I am not truly “local,” and I only hold the lowest tier key.)

Looking at the current calendar, if a Dream Keyholder has the next six days (Nov 27- Dec 2) held “speculatively,” and decides tonight to cancel tomorrow’s reservation, the earliest they can book a new reservation is December 21st. Now, it’s possible (even likely) that December 3rd may briefly open up by Dec 1 or 2; but the notion that the local Dream Keyholder can continually keep rolling ”just in case” reservations doesn’t seem quite right. They would be on the same footing as any other key holder for that last minute opening for Dec 3.

Additionally, by canceling tomorrow by midnight tonight, they are creating the very last minute opening for other pass holders that many are complaining doesn’t exist.

I *do* have great sympathy for the folks who live 6+ hours away and use AP/MKs to cover multiple weekend trips and vacations. The reservation system clearly does not work well for that demographic. But I’m not convinced that the local Dream Keyholder is actually to blame.

(Additionally, while I’m generally a “rule-follower” in life and am frustrated when “non-rule-followers” manage to get ahead… I don’t think it’s fair or reasonable for people in this community to impose non-existent rules on locals. Everyone is attempting to make the best of the system that is given to us. Let’s not blame each other for the system that Disney created.)

 

[Dory92130]

@StormyCA - Absolutely agree that many cannot afford on-site stays. As bolded, it maybe not the best, but a viable one that is available and a way forward with options if people try it out and be creative.

@twitch - it's the weekends that go fast and way ahead. Weekdays stay relatively open and last minute cancellations open up throughout the week before on weekdays; so rotating out every 2-3 weekends is very doable to keep up. We do that and have booked likely weekends into Feb.

 

[gelatoni fan]

I’m not so sure that local Dream Keyholders can actually do what some are suggesting in this thread. (FTR, I am not truly “local,” and I only hold the lowest tier key.)

Looking at the current calendar, if a Dream Keyholder has the next six days (Nov 27- Dec 2) held “speculatively,” and decides tonight to cancel tomorrow’s reservation, the earliest they can book a new reservation is December 21st. Now, it’s possible (even likely) that December 3rd may briefly open up by Dec 1 or 2; but the notion that the local Dream Keyholder can continually keep rolling ”just in case” reservations doesn’t seem quite right. They would be on the same footing as any other key holder for that last minute opening for Dec 3.

Additionally, by canceling tomorrow by midnight tonight, they are creating the very last minute opening for other pass holders that many are complaining doesn’t exist.

I *do* have great sympathy for the folks who live 6+ hours away and use AP/MKs to cover multiple weekend trips and vacations. The reservation system clearly does not work well for that demographic. But I’m not convinced that the local Dream Keyholder is actually to blame.

(Additionally, while I’m generally a “rule-follower” in life and am frustrated when “non-rule-followers” manage to get ahead… I don’t think it’s fair or reasonable for people in this community to impose non-existent rules on locals. Everyone is attempting to make the best of the system that is given to us. Let’s not blame each other for the system that Disney created.)

I think that's precisely the trick that Disney is trying to pull on Passholders from Norcal or other places where visiting for a weekend is doable but a hotel booking would be required. Disney is hoping they buy tickets when they are Magic Keys are blocked out due to reservation availability. Alternatively, they could book a Disney hotel to get access to the hotel bucket. The math works out so that if you're a family of four who normally books $150 per night hotels on Harbor and are now booking a $400 Disney hotel, paying extra for the Disney hotel is cheaper than buying day tickets. As long as people are doing this, Disney wins and will not make things better.

I personally don't fault anyone for making reservations within the guidelines Disney set up. Disney created a bad system and managed to convince many customers to blame each other rather than take responsibility for their own mess.

 

[kelmac284]

So what's the solution? Asking/shaming MK holders simply won't work. How would that play out if Disney starts that campaign?

There's a work around with staying onsite for all visitors, including MK holders. That may not be the best solution; but it's a viable one for out of towners who have to plan between 1-60 days.

Since Disney has confirmed that reservations will not be going away anytime soon, my guess is they will adjust the MK program at renewals at this rate.

That's not a work around. I don't know a lot of people who can afford to stay onsite!

 

[Dory92130]

work around = solution to get issue resolved. This case; folk lamenting no way to use their MKs -- there is.

affordability = a very different issue. Lots of folk can't afford MK let alone the luxury of visiting Disneyland once.