Behaviour Help w/ DS 5 yo - Updt Pg 3 :)

[jodifla]

Come on Jodi, there are different ways of doing things. Ive got an 18 yr old who is a fab wonderful child actually young adult now. He starts culinary school in the fall and is looking at a bright bright future, no trouble with drugs drinking.
Parents who smack down their child's psyches are the screamers and the yellers and also the ones who dont set any boundries. I dont do any of those things, cuz frankly that doesnt work and its cruel ( where have I heard that before... wait thats another thread ). I expect my child to obey the rules, just like the rest of society does. His school expects it, his bosses will expect it, the police expect it and I expect it. If what you do works for you GREAT, what i do works for me and lots of others so it would be nice if you kept the name calling to a minimum.

Where, exactly, did I say I didn't expect my child not to follow rules?

You all keep insisting that's what I mean, when I never said anything of the sort.

But because I showed my kid a little empathy, I''m rewarding bad behavior. What I tell my son is, I can understand that you don't like the rules, but we follow them nonetheless.

Whenever I'm dealing with someone who is having a difficult time, I think hard about what it feels like to be them. This allows me a new perspective, and it allows me to take all my anger out of the situation. It's so much easier to deal with upset people when you aren't angry yourself.

 

[diznygirl]

Well, it's interesting to see all the hostility people have against their children! You gotta let them see you are right, and they are wrong. Smack down their psyches and keep them in line.

It's such antiquated thinking. I did basically the same thing as all of you, but I approached it with different intent. And my son responds much better when I do that. I'm firm, but don't engage in his anger with any of my own. When I say something, I follow through (most of the time.) But I let him know he has a right to his feelings. I don't dwell on it. I acknowledge it, and move on.

I learned this way from watching family members who work with gifted children. They teach children from with a true respect, and they get the most amazing things from them. These are children who grow up to be really incredible people. I've seen it time and time again, so it made me try some of their ways, and I find it really really works. Maybe not on every kid, but on probably most of them.

I don't think it's fair to call people "hostile" just because they are showing their children an authority figure. That's quite a big leap and totally unwarranted.

As these posts reflect, there is a lot of sympathy for children and much second-guessing so that psyches aren't damaged.

You should try treating adults with respect and see what happens.....

 

[jodifla]

I don't think it's fair to call people "hostile" just because they are showing their children an authority figure. That's quite a big leap and totally unwarranted.

As these posts reflect, there is a lot of sympathy for children and much second-guessing so that psyches aren't damaged.

You should try treating adults with respect and see what happens.....

Hmmm. I was a manager for 10 years. I was a multiple-award winner for my management and service, and had almost no turnover in my department.

I know exactly how to treat thoughtful adults with respect.

 

[ilovejack02]

I dont have any sympathy either... we ALLl must learn to follow the rules to bad if we dont like it
But if thats how some folks want to work it and it does ok with their kids... good deal.
I think its all in how we look at things, I do hear my self saying to DS sometimes, I understand you are upset and im sorry you feel that way.. and that does seem to kinda calm him if he gets upset about something ive said no too. But IF he continues fussing his booty gets marched to his room ; )



DAXX...... I LOVE LOVE LOVE John Rosemond's ideas on kids. I just read an article that his theory on timeouts have changed and I was all on board with it!!!

Where, exactly, did I say I didn't expect my child not to follow rules?

You all keep insisting that's what I mean, when I never said anything of the sort.

But because I showed my kid a little empathy, I''m rewarding bad behavior. What I tell my son is, I can understand that you don't like the rules, but we follow them nonetheless.

Whenever I'm dealing with someone who is having a difficult time, I think hard about what it feels like to be them. This allows me a new perspective, and it allows me to take all my anger out of the situation. It's so much easier to deal with upset people when you aren't angry yourself.

Hmmm. I was a manager for 10 years. I was a multiple-award winner for my management and service, and had almost no turnover in my department.

I know exactly how to treat thoughtful adults with respect.

If you look at my original post no where did it say I dont think you make your kid follow the rules. I just dont look at it from a sympathy point of view, I think I clearly stated that. I look at it from a this is the rules and this is what we do standpoint. Im sorry if the rules upset you, but too bad you have to follow them in every aspect of life.
I also clearly stated that i do not yell... it doesnt work so im not sure how this makes me an angry person lol. When I am marching my kids booty to his room Im not usually angry... as far as im not screaming, yelling, yanking dragging my kid. I am walking with him calmly to his room. It doesnt pay for me to get all freaked out on him because then i just look like the crazy homeless lady on the corner
Now im not saying that I wont ever be angry at my child, I have and I will again, I just know that freaking out about a situation never works and speaking in low tones and using eye contact works for us. You look at it one way and I look at it another way, but I think all in all its kinda the same thing.
Im not sure how Im hostile, angry or damaging my kids psyche by expecting him to obey me with out giving me alot of crap about it. Its not that I dont ever expect to hear an "aww Mom" because trust me I do, from my oldest, but when I let my little one get away with too much of that then it just gets out of hand and leads to crying and such. SOOO I take being consistent with very seriously.
Treating folks with respect is not calling us angry, hostile or telling us we are damaging our kids.
Now we should all prob. get back to helping OP with her child and not debating on how good or how horrible we are with our kids.

 

[jodifla]

If you look at my original post no where did it say I dont think you make your kid follow the rules. I just dont like at it from a sympathy point of view, I think I clearly stated that. I look at it from a this is the rules and this is what we do standpoint. Im sorry if the rules upset you, but too bad you have to follow them in every aspect of life.
I also clearly stated that i do not yell... it doesnt work so im not sure how this makes me an angry person lol. When I am marching my kids booty to his room Im not usually angry... as far as im not screaming, yelling, yanking dragging my kid. I am walking with him calmly to his room. It doesnt pay for me to get all freaked out on him because then i just look like the crazy homeless lady on the corner
Now im not saying that I wont ever be angry at my child, I have and I will again, I just know that freaking out about a situation never works and speaking in low tones and using eye contact works for us. You look at it one way and I look at it another way, but I think all in all its kinda the same thing.
Im not sure how Im hostile, angry or damaging my kids psyche by expecting him to obey me with out giving me alot of crap about it. Its not that I dont ever expect to hear an "aww Mom" because trust me I do, from my oldest, but when I let my little one get away with too much of that then it just gets out of hand and leads to crying and such. SOOO I take being consistent with very seriously.

Good points all. And I agree about being consistent...it's really the key.

I didn't assume you yell, or really anybody on this thread. My points on hostility were largely directed at the poster who said "Who cares about his point of view." I find this a poor approach. You get a lot further with people if you can understand their point of view, even if they are 5.

I think being overly permissive or too authoritarian are the low road of parenting. Anyone can give up and give in (because little kids are tenacious!) and any adult can pull rank on a 5 year old. It doesn't particularly help them learn any life lessons. And certainly, I have done both of these things at times.

But I'm aiming for a higher road of parenting whenever I can. And I suggested this method to OP because I'm finding it really, really works well with my son. And it's not all that wildly and crazily different from what most of you are suggesting. I probably erred by calling it sympathy. Empathy is more like it.

 

[diznygirl]

Hmmm. I was a manager for 10 years. I was a multiple-award winner for my management and service, and had almost no turnover in my department.

I know exactly how to treat thoughtful adults with respect.

Good for you.

Personally, I don't care. Here you called moms hostile for no reason. That's not very respectful.

 

[SplshMtn99]

I don't have any kids, but I agree that I think he received way too many choices. Of course he was bargaining, he was waiting for more choices until he heard one he liked.

When I watch children, its: here's the rules. Take the consequences.

ETA: I just read your update on pg 3. Good for you!! One battle down.

 

[cybrkitn]

Yes, leave the "freaking out little monkey" with me! Guarantee he'll calm down in 10 minutes!

I am a Kindergarten teacher and have handled my share of meltdowns! I have had parents leave their "freaking out little monkey w/me to deal with" more times than I can remember! Actually, it's easier when the parents leave their freaking out child w/me b/c the child knows he/she has no choice but to settle down. They know that they're not going to get their way w/me and accept that. To them, I'm an authoratative figure and not a pushover. Problem is that most parents are afraid to be the authoratative figure and want to be the "Yes" Mom. Sure, I am a loving, caring teacher ... but they know I will not give into them.

If a child is throwing a tantrum and Mom/Dad think they're going to stay til the bitter end, I won't allow it. Once you're gone, your child no longer has someone to manipulate and they forget about the whole thing. In less than 10 minutes, they're settled and ready to continue the day! It's easier for me to handle a freaking out tantrum w/o the parent there b/c the kids are no longer working on manipulating the parent for what they want. They're w/me, they know that I won't stand for a fit/tantrum, what I say goes and there's no way on earth that they can manipulate me! If a parent remains, they'll ignore me and continue to work on manipulating the parent until they get their way. My guess is that the gym monitor lady would have taken your freaking out child and told you to leave.

ITA! My son would do this in daycare when he was there full time. I knew he would be fine and that it was separation anxiety he was going through (went through it at 18 months at again at 2). I kept telling him that he would be fine and there were times where the daycare provider would have to pull him away from me. However, he always calmed down within 15 minutes and was fine for the rest of the day. He finally got to the point where he couldn't wait to get to daycare so he could play with his friends!

 

[barkley]

just jumping in to say that i sometimes sympathize with my kids over what i agree from their (and often my own) perspective is an odd, non sensical or downright 'dumb' (their words ) rule, procedure or process-but i still make them follow it. and moreso, i teach them that more often than not the 'rule enforcers' (teachers, police, coaches...) are not going to have the time or inclination to enter into discussions with them about their feelings and opinions when enforcing. sometimes 'the rules are the rules' and thats it-no discussion, no arguing.

i have to confess, in my personal and professional life there are often rules i encounter that i just have to find out the reason for. often i find that they've been implemented for no realy good reason except that one kid or adult misused a privledge or kept pushing the envelope such that a hard and fast rule came down that impacted everyone (i encountered this allot as a manager-9 out of 10 staff members did'nt abuse a policy but if one did i had to come down and implement changes that impacted everyone, or that one would successfully argue with a union or labor board that they were being subjected to inequitable treatment/work conditions). as my kids have encountered issues with school rules and such, i've tried to teach them that they can't always just look at it from their personal perspecitve (as in 'why can't i just do it today-just this once?') but how it impacts on the group as a whole. not that i'm trying to squash their individuality or teach them a 'group mentality', but that simply put-the rules apply to everyone, you cannot expect for the teacher to make an exception just for you, just because you want it or just because you don't feel like it should apply to you.

i always found it interesting (and frustrating) when i taught younger kids-and when i volunteered later on in my kid's classrooms. the kids that got their parents to let them break the rules by bringing in toys, banned food items, banned clothing and such largly did'nt even try to pull those kind's of things once the parents left. the contraband toys were quietly collected and returned at the end of the day, the banned foods were collected at snack time and put back into the snack bags for the parents to pick up (we had replacement items on hand), and the contriband tshirts were turned inside out with nary a whimper. often it seemed like once the child had won the battle with the parents their goal was achieved and the actual issue they had fought over held no meaning for them. it often was a power play more than anything else. the difficulty came when other children observed parents caving to this kind of behaviour or overly sympathizing, bargaining-they were then left to learn that this type of inappropriate behaviour on a child's part could be successful in achieving a goal, and some realy well behaved kids would end up putting their parents through hell testing it out on them