Beating a dead horse

[jimmytammy]

This thread may be just that. We have owned DVC since 01 and been visiting WDW since 99. In that time we have seen suttle changes, not enough to really make me dissapointed. But this last trip, it became obvious that the restrooms in parks and restaurants werent up to Disney quality, IMO.

I have read that these positions have been outsourced, even though most employees remained. Is this true? If so, I understand bottom line for business, but when your core customers notice it, enough so to consider letting the Co. know your concerns, its getting bad.

As we were(sadly) leaving VWL yesterday, I asked our bellman how long he had been at the Lodge, he told me then proceeded to tell me that they found out recently that Bell and Valet would be outsourced come Jan 7. Again, I understand bottom line, but it seems every service is being pushed out the door, and with it quality.

Not meant to be a negative thread, just wondered how others see it. I tend to be upbeat and optimistic, but this has got me feeling a bit down.

 

[Doctor P]

This thread may be just that. We have owned DVC since 01 and been visiting WDW since 99. In that time we have seen suttle changes, not enough to really make me dissapointed. But this last trip, it became obvious that the restrooms in parks and restaurants werent up to Disney quality, IMO.

I have read that these positions have been outsourced, even though most employees remained. Is this true? If so, I understand bottom line for business, but when your core customers notice it, enough so to consider letting the Co. know your concerns, its getting bad.

As we were(sadly) leaving VWL yesterday, I asked our bellman how long he had been at the Lodge, he told me then proceeded to tell me that they found out recently that Bell and Valet would be outsourced come Jan 7. Again, I understand bottom line, but it seems every service is being pushed out the door, and with it quality.

Not meant to be a negative thread, just wondered how others see it. I tend to be upbeat and optimistic, but this has got me feeling a bit down.

I would suggest that you read Sammie's thread about the facts of some of the recent changes. They help to differentiate between some of the rumors and assertions and the apparent facts (e.g., bell services are NOT being outsourced).

 

[jdg345]

Link to Sammie's thread: http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1292935

 

[SimbaNoodle]

Don't feel bad, the horse deserved it.

 

[jimmytammy]

Thanks for this, Sammies Thread.

 

[jodifla]

I definitely notice a difference in cleanliness at the parks, particularly in the bathrooms.

My DVC units have always been clean however.

 

[DVCconvert]

All Hail "Sammie" !!!

The truth however is that custodial services in the parks has been reduced over the years.

 

[rubbergypsy]

when we were at the studios this past august, we ate at sci-fi and used the restrooms, they were appalling, i could not believe this was disneyworld. the hall to the bathrooms smelled disgusting also.

 

[bicker]

Folks have been predicting the demise of WDW due to changes such as the OP is mentioning for over twenty years. In reality, WDW is the best combination of affordability, entertainment value, and service offered -- it always has been and remains so today. Six Flags? Paramount? Universal? Sea World? None of them are serious competition -- indeed, Universal used to be serious competition but has declined sharply in several aspects as compared to WDW, and is no longer. What has changed over time is the general condition of the industry, and typically that's a reflection of our society as a whole. When fine dining was very important in the market, WDW provided that very well. Now that affordability -- low bottom-line cost -- is the most important criteria for the market, WDW continues to listen to its customers and provides what they're clamoring for. We all recognize the important of providing what customers want, but sometimes we overlook that not one of us is representative of customers-in-general, and customers-in-general perhaps want something that we personally don't.

 

[Cruelladeville]

I'm confused. I, too, read that bell services would be out-sourced on Jan.7, but I don't remember where I saw that. I would say Orlando Sentinel, but I am not sure. I am glad that it's not true, though. I think the rest room conditions are appalling. It's getting so that a clean restroom is the exception rather than the rule at Disney. And I don't think that these changes came about as a result of the guests--what guest has said"I want dirty restrooms if my admission is cheaper."?--but this came about because the stockholders wanted a bigger bottom line. Still, outsourcing restrooms wasn't such a good idea, given what we have seen in recent years.

 

[bicker]

Restrooms in the theme parks are cleaned by Disney employees. They receive $6.80 per hour to start.

The condition of restrooms, not just in WDW but nationwide, has degraded over the years due to the carelessness and cavalier behavior of patrons.

Of course no one said that they "want" dirty rest rooms -- what they've said is that they want low prices, and they don't make their purchasing decisions based on rest room cleanliness. Companies must listen to their customers, and when their customers care about something only a limited amount, then the company must care about that only a limited amount.

 

[MiaSRN62]

I agree about the public restrooms......and it's not just those that are in the theme parks, but I noticed some shabbiness of the the public ones in the resorts as well. Some of the resort restrooms I visited this past weekend: Poly, Contemp, WL.

 

[jimmytammy]

Disney workers to rally today

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Disney workers to rally today
Union officials are concerned about the number of jobs being outsourced at Disney.

Scott Powers | Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted December 8, 2006

In the past year, Walt Disney World has outsourced nearly 600 jobs to private contractors, and unions that represent nearly half of Disney's workers complain the cuts are unfair and are hurting morale.

The job cuts of the past year affect about 1 percent of Disney's work force. Disney insists that no one has been laid off and that affected workers are offered other jobs at comparable wages, hours and benefits.

Yet union officials and several workers who consented to recent interviews say the new job offers can be poor substitutes.

The Service Trades Council Union, a coalition of six labor organizations at Disney World, plans to rally at noon today outside the Disney Crossroads gate. The union will protest Disney's decisions to give custodial, valet, bellhop, baggage handler, rigger and video tech jobs to private contractors.

"Some people feel they're next. People are nervous over the whole situation. I've never seen people this upset over something in my 19 years here," said Tom Pierce, 58, of Dr. Phillips, a custodial worker who comes on at 5 a.m.

Disney officials say the moves, which began in late 2005, have been relatively small and don't necessarily signal any trends. Spokeswoman Jacquee Polak said Disney World has long outsourced some jobs and will pursue any creative, smart and efficient business moves that make sense.

"We realize the impact these changes are having on current employees and we are doing everything we can to minimize those impacts," she said.

Disney World has 59,000 employees. The Service Trades Council unions represent approximately 29,000 of them and other unions represent 11,000 more. The cuts of the past year affect 583 jobs, according to a union count.

The union that represents Disney's cleaning workers, Unite HERE! Local 362, wants to know what sorts of workers are replacing them, and what sorts of pay and benefits they get. Those questions form one of the issues in an unfair labor practice charge that the union filed and Disney disputed. It will be heard Feb. 5 before the National Labor Relations Board.

"Are the employees of an outsource company required to live up to the same standards as Disney employees? Are they subjected to background checks, costuming and grooming policies, other standards that Disney requires of its employees?" asked President Morty Miller. "Disney has refused to answer and denied our information requests."

While Disney may not have issued official answers, Polak replied that its contractors are required to follow Disney standards for employees, though wages and benefits are up to the contractors.

"We are only going to work with partners that will maintain our very high standard of business service," she said. "It's the hallmark of what we do. It's the hallmark of the Disney experience. Guest service at Walt Disney World will not be compromised."

Until recently, most of the cuts involved workers whom Disney customers normally never met, on either late-night or back-office jobs.

But that is changing next month, when Disney turns over, by its count, 167 baggage, valet and bellhop jobs to Baggage Airlines Guest Service, the private company that now handles baggage transfers for Disney's Magical Express service. The Transportation and Communications Union estimates that 219 jobs will be lost.

There's no indication that outside contractors can't clean or carry bags as well as Disney employees.

One outside contractor said his workers probably clean hotels better than Disney employees, because cleaning hotels is all they do. John Knoepker, president Hotel Cleaning Services of Phoenix, said last month that his employees all are full time and receive benefits, though the pay and benefits might be lower than what Disney offered.

"When a hotel provides their own in-house third-shift cleaning, they're not specialists in what they're doing. We specialize in what we do, nothing else," Knoepker said. "We don't pull our crew away from those jobs for any customer-service-related issues. That's covered by the in-house staff from the resorts. Our crew, we staff and train and maintain and supervise to do exactly the same job every night. They don't have to do guest runs."

Yet the mix of cleaning and customer service is an important part of the job and one that Disney customers frequently expect, said former Fort Wilderness custodian Luz Martinez, 41, of Davenport, who left in November 2005 rather than switch to a day shift when her job was outsourced.

"I was a custodian, I cleaned and took care of the guests. I was a runner also," she said. "I dealt with housecleaning, getting them what they needed."

Found this on Rumors and News Forum. It is a news article, so take it for what its worth.
__________________

 

[bicker]

unions that represent nearly half of Disney's workers complain the cuts are unfair and are hurting morale.

I'd be sure interesting in hearing their defense of their charge of unfairness, given that their very existence and the main purpose of the union is to gang-up on their employer and make it so that the employer cannot pay for their services at a market rate.

Found this on Rumors and News Forum.

I can imagine what a circus that thread is. Hopefully, here on the DVC forum, we can maintain some connection to reality.

 

[Granny]

JT...thanks for posting the article. It now appears that bell hops are back in the mix.

I am in the camp of not worrying about something until a problem is exhibited.

I predict that if people have a problem with valet parking or bell services, many will immediately point to the source of the problem as being the outsourcing.

But if someone has a problem with a different CM position, it will be Disney's lack of caring anymore about customer satisfaction.

To me, this is much ado about nothing. It sounds like Disney has offered the existing 167 employees a job elsewhere in their system, so nobody lost wages/benefits. And I think we'd be amazed to find out how many people and services at WDW are already outsourced to some degree.

 

[kgar2121]

if unions are involved, it aint gonna get better

 

[jodifla]

So, Sammie's info was wrong.


And, it looks like the restrooms may well indeed be cleaned by non Disney employees. That would explain thenoticeable and rapid decline.

 

[Mickmse2002]

And, it looks like the restrooms may well indeed be cleaned by non Disney employees. That would explain thenoticeable and rapid decline.

Where did you see that restrooms are no longer cleaned by WDW employees?

 

[Mickmse2002]

if unions are involved, it aint gonna get better

Perhaps this is why Disney is looking towards more outsourcing. Maybe they have heard the chorus of complaints about the general cleanliness of the park restrooms and realize their best opportunity to improve them is by moving toward outsourcing. It may be easier for the company to demand better quality work from an outsourced employee then it is from their own union employee.

 

[MiaSRN62]

bicker states : the main purpose of the union is to gang-up on their employer and make it so that the employer cannot pay for their services at a market rate.

My personal experience, as an RN, with unions has been that the unions works to protect the employee. Perhaps sometimes they go overboard, but my years being a union RN vs a non-union have been vastly different. I've seen things when no union is involved, such as hospitals forcing RN's to work double shifts, making it extremely difficult to use personal and vacation time, forcing them back to work after a workman's comp injury when they should not be working and so on and so on. Some employers have way too much power and it's detrimental to the employee. I mean, I am aware that some unions go above and beyond and can be a thorn in the side of employers, but there are many positive aspects to unions as well. My husband has also had very positive work experiences with a union vs without one. He had one employer that would lay him off and rehire him at their beckon will. Never happened with a union. So I see the positives as well as the negatives in unions.

Mickmse2002 states : It may be easier for the company to demand better quality work from an outsourced employee then it is from their own union employee.

I could see this as a possibility. Like I said, I see both pros and cons with unions.
Thanks for the article jimmytammy.