Bankruptcy

[Fritochips4u]

Anyone else find it interesting that members of this board completely belittle someone who is contemplating filing bankruptcy, but yet our own Walt Disney filed bankruptcy...

http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/personal/11/19/mf.successful.people.survived.bankruptcy/index.html


"3. Walt Disney

His name may be a stalwart brand today, but early in his career, Disney was just a struggling filmmaker with too many bills. In 1922 he started his first film company with a partner in Kansas City, Kansas.

The two men bought a used camera and made short advertising films and cartoons under the studio name Laugh-O-Gram. Disney even signed a deal with a New York company to distribute the films he was producing. That arrangement didn't work out so well, though, as the distributor cheated Disney's studio.

Without the distributor's cash, Disney couldn't cover his overhead, and his studio went bankrupt in 1923. He then left Kansas City for Hollywood, and after a series of increasingly successful creations, Disney debuted a new character named Mickey Mouse in 1928. Mental Floss: The secrets behind your favorite toys"

 

[Hoodie]

Bankruptcy laws have changed dramatically. There are very valid reasons to declare bankruptcy. My husband did so prior to us meeting. It destroyed his credit, but thankfully we have been able to repair it. My sister recently did because her identity was stolen. It was the only way to get anything back or start clean. FYI - it was on the advice of leal counsel to do so.

On the other hand, my SIL filed for bankruptcy a few years ago and hasn't changed any of her habits that got her there in the first place. She's close to where she was before. There are good and bad outcomes.

 

[Scurvy]

That's interesting - I hadn't heard that.

I haven't noticed people belittling posters who are planning to declare bankruptcy, though I have seen some criticism of those who are planning Disney trips while also planning to declare bankruptcy.

For some people bankrupcy becomes a necessary evil, and I'm sure no one wants to have to face that. I do have to think, though, that if you are facing that kind of financial difficulty then it isn't the best idea to be splurging on a vacation, and I've seen other posters mention that before.

 

[eliza61]

Remember this is a very varied board, so you're bound to get all types of opinions.
If you really want opinions go to the budget board and say some thing Anti- Dave Ramsey. or say you have cc debt and are going to Disney for vacations.
Not pretty.

 

[JimmyPicker]

I think there are differences. Major differences. What put you in the position to declare bankruptcy to begin with? Did you have medical problems, resulting in hundreds of thousands of dollars in bills? Did you lose your job, couldn't find another one, lost your house, lost your car, etc?

Or, did you just overspend? Live beyond your means? Take 5 WDW trips in the last 3 years, blew up your credit card debt?

The only time I will belittle a person contemplating bankruptcy is when they put themself in that position to begin with AND have not learned from their mistakes (such as having three new vacation tickers in their signature line).

 

[Fritochips4u]

I think there are differences. Major differences. What put you in the position to declare bankruptcy to begin with? Did you have medical problems, resulting in hundreds of thousands of dollars in bills? Did you lose your job, couldn't find another one, lost your house, lost your car, etc?

Or, did you just overspend? Live beyond your means? Take 5 WDW trips in the last 3 years, blew up your credit card debt?

The only time I will belittle a person contemplating bankruptcy is when they put themself in that position to begin with AND have not learned from their mistakes (such as having three new vacation tickers in their signature line).

What does it matter HOW you got into it? Does one instance make it illegal to file?

What business is it of anyone's if they have tickers?

 

[Quiksilvr]

The bankruptcy laws are designed to protect people and give them the ability to make a fresh start. I don't see anything wrong with people doing what they have to do to get that fresh start. People become insolvent. Sometimes it has little to do with matters under their control; sometimes it has everything to do with matters under their control. Regardless, everyone has the right to declare bankruptcy under the code. I don't judge the people who do so; I just hope that they can make the most of the fresh start.

As an aside, the bankruptcy laws have been tightened significantly in the last few years to limit the types of consumer debts that can be forgiven in bankruptcy. It has made it much more difficult for the chronic credit card spender to get complete bankruptcy relief. It is instead far more likely that the debts will be restructured rather than completely wiped out.

The bankrupcty code also has rules relating to how often one can file bankruptcy and receive relief from creditors. This is designed to prevent people from abusing the bankruptcy system.

 

[mickeyboat]

What does it matter HOW you got into it? Does one instance make it illegal to file?

What business is it of anyone's if they have tickers?

Because I ultimately pay for people's dumb choices.

I am much more understanding of someone who incurred medical bills beyond their ability to pay than someone who racked up massive amounts of credit card debt going on vacations and driving fancy SUV's.

 

[BoyLovesBuzz]

What does it matter HOW you got into it? Does one instance make it illegal to file?

What business is it of anyone's if they have tickers?

The only way anyone on this board would know if you are filing bankruptcy, is becuase you have made it known. By doing that you have invited everyone into "your business".

 

[Scurvy]

The only way anyone on this board would know if you are filing bankruptcy, is becuase you have made it known. By doing that you have invited everyone into "your business".

Exactly. And if you come onto a message board to complain about your financial situation while using tickers to advertise trips you are planning in the future (that you obviously can not afford to be taking), you are inviting criticism.

 

[Quiksilvr]

Because I ultimately pay for people's dumb choices.

I am much more understanding of someone who incurred medical bills beyond their ability to pay than someone who racked up massive amounts of credit card debt going on vacations and driving fancy SUV's.

But the law protects everyone. It has to. Otherwise, you'd have bankruptcy judges making subjective judgments about who "deserves" bankruptcy relief. That's never a good place to be.

I think you're right that it's easier to be understanding of someone who had no control over the debts they incurred than of the big spender, but since the law protects everybody to make sure that the process is objective, why bother getting upset about it?

 

[eliza61]

The only way anyone on this board would know if you are filing bankruptcy, is becuase you have made it known. By doing that you have invited everyone into "your business".

Generally even if the person post their situation I try not to be judgemental. For the simple fact that I always try to keep in mind the old saying "people in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones"

Since I have done some really bone headed moves with my money and have caused some major hits on my credit report a time or two in my life, I'm not about to "throw stones" at some one else for not being perfect.

 

[Fritochips4u]

But the law protects everyone. It has to. Otherwise, you'd have bankruptcy judges making subjective judgments about who "deserves" bankruptcy relief. That's never a good place to be.

I think you're right that it's easier to be understanding of someone who had no control over the debts they incurred than of the big spender, but since the law protects everybody to make sure that the process is objective, why bother getting upset about it?

Thank you!! That's exactly what I was just about to post!

 

[mickeyboat]

But the law protects everyone. It has to. Otherwise, you'd have bankruptcy judges making subjective judgments about who "deserves" bankruptcy relief. That's never a good place to be.

I think you're right that it's easier to be understanding of someone who had no control over the debts they incurred than of the big spender, but since the law protects everybody to make sure that the process is objective, why bother getting upset about it?

I am not upset about the process. Just because a judge cannot be subjective does not mean that I can't be. I do get upset with people who take a morally unfair advantage of the process.

 

[JimmyPicker]

What does it matter HOW you got into it? Does one instance make it illegal to file?

What business is it of anyone's if they have tickers?

What business is it of yours if someone says they're contemplating, and someone else belittles them?

It works both ways. If you don't want your business known, don't put it on a public message board for all the world to know.

And it does make a huge difference. People who try to be responsible but are down on their luck and haven't done anything wrong deserve to have another chance.

People who are just spending money like there's no tomorrow, only to file bankruptcy and do it all over again makes it more difficult for the responsible people.

Do you really think that when someone owes a credit card company ten grand and that person files bankruptcy that the company doesn't get it back? Sure they do. They get it from other customers, the responsible ones, by adding silly little fees for this, upping finance rates, putting surcharges on things.

You tell me what the difference is in these two scenerios:

Mother is driving her child to school. The weather is kind of nasty, and she veers off the road, and into a tree. In order to save their childs life, they go through months of hospitalization, therapy, surgeries, accumalating 450,000 dollars worth of bills. They're going to lose their house if they don't file bankruptcy.

OR

Someone who makes minimum wage put a big old flat screen TV on a credit card. Another credit card offer comes in the mail. They use that one to book a WDW vacation. They use a third one to pay for all their meals and souvenirs. The husband gets a credit card also. They use that one for a trip to Las Vegas. And of course, they pull off lots of money from that card for sightseeing and gambling.

The bills start coming in. They use another credit card to pay the old credit card bills. But that doesn't stop them from booking another WDW vacation -- hey, it's their birthday, they deserve 5 days at the Polynesian, it's been a stressful year.

Fast forward to 3 years later, and they've racked up 164,000 dollars in CC debt and are in danger of losing their home if they don't declare bankruptcy. So they file, save their home, and three months later, they're planning their return to "The World."

Tell me there's no difference.

 

[TCPluto]

What does it matter HOW you got into it? Does one instance make it illegal to file?

What business is it of anyone's if they have tickers?

You seem to think that bankruptcy is a constitutional right to a "do-over".

Never mind that it was bad moneymanagement that got you there, people have a right to wash their hands of the debt they incurred.

You see no problem with people not living within their menas, so they are somehow then entitled to have someone else bail them out?

 

[BoyLovesBuzz]

Generally even if the person post their situation I try not to be judgemental. For the simple fact that I always try to keep in mind the old saying "people in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones"

Since I have done some really bone headed moves with my money and have caused some major hits on my credit report a time or two in my life, I'm not about to "throw stones" at some one else for not being perfect.

I didn't mean to imply that its open season on every poor sap that comes along. But, you can't come on a board like this and post a "What would you do?", "Thoughts?", "Opinions?", "Need advice", or any of the many solicitations for attention used around here, and then pull the "its none of your business", when things don't go your way.

 

[RitaE]

The people I've seen degraded on this board for filing bankruptcy have been completely irresponsible immoral deadbeats.

Such as the running to the Disney Store to charge about $3000 in Disney Dollars on a Credit Card the month before the bankruptcy filing. Sorry but if you come to a board like this to practically brag about your 'cleverness' then take what you get.

WWWD?

What Would Walt Do?

Who Cares? he was Walt Disney, not Jesus Christ.

 

[allison443]

The people I've seen degraded on this board for filing bankruptcy have been completely irresponsible immoral deadbeats.

Such as the running to the Disney Store to charge about $3000 in Disney Dollars on a Credit Card the month before the bankruptcy filing. Sorry but if you come to a board like this to practically brag about your 'cleverness' then take what you get.

WWWD?

What Would Walt Do?

Who Cares? he was Walt Disney, not Jesus Christ.

 

[Quiksilvr]

I am not upset about the process. Just because a judge cannot be subjective does not mean that I can't be. I do get upset with people who take a morally unfair advantage of the process.

I agree. I wasn't trying to saying you didn't have the right to get upset about people you think are abusing the system. I was just trying to point out that getting upset seems like a futile undertaking since there's nothing anyone can do to really change the bankruptcy system effectively.