BAIT and SWITCH

[TigerlilyAJ]

I would just like to politely remind some of the PPs who don't understand why it's a big deal if something is closed or unavailable or why an ADR can be such a big deal that some people like myself do not go to a Disney park every year. Or every two years, or even every three. If something does not happen on this trip, it effectively never happens. I won't catch that show next time, ride that attraction next time, or eat at that restaurant next time. And that's before you add in the things that either have hard, set age limits for kids (like JTA), or you know there is only a small window where the kids will get excited for them (anything Disney Junior), so that even if we somehow do get back, it will be with a different age group of kids with different interests.
I understand both the disappointment that trips won't include certain features and the frustration that some things have to be planned far in advance to ensure you can do them (Akershus PPO breakfast) while you wait and wait to see if other things will be offered, requiring more reservations and planning (EMH) until (and possible after) you check in.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I would just like to politely remind some of the PPs who don't understand why it's a big deal if something is closed or unavailable or why an ADR can be such a big deal that some people like myself do not go to a Disney park every year. Or every two years, or even every three. If something does not happen on this trip, it effectively never happens. I won't catch that show next time, ride that attraction next time, or eat at that restaurant next time. And that's before you add in the things that either have hard, set age limits for kids (like JTA), or you know there is only a small window where the kids will get excited for them (anything Disney Junior), so that even if we somehow do get back, it will be with a different age group of kids with different interests.
I understand both the disappointment that trips won't include certain features and the frustration that some things have to be planned far in advance to ensure you can do them (Akershus PPO breakfast) while you wait and wait to see if other things will be offered, requiring more reservations and planning (EMH) until (and possible after) you check in.

Good points really but I wouldn't assume that all of us are regular visitors.

Quite simply put Disney cannot be perfect and cannot have everything open for every guests every single day. That does not however in any way mean a guest cannot be disappointed and upset.

Believe me I'm not all for what Disney does especially since I started planning my Sep 2017 back in August 2015 and the immense but perceived by most as not so good changes since I started planning but people have to also be realistic about Disney.

I've not been on one vacation where every single thing went to plan. I've also never been on one vacation where I haven't missed something that I wanted to do either because there wasn't enough time, the operating hours of a place, the cost associated with it, the desires of those I'm vacationing with, etc. Also my husband isn't a fan of vacationing somewhere twice. He prefers a new place each time and while we have been able to make it to a handful of places again when I left the place the first time it was with the assumption that I was never going back...

 

[Party.Of.4-NY>>>FL]

Everything changes. Always has, always will.

The Disney World we went to as children no longer exists.

The Disney World our children go to this this year will not be available to them when they are older.

And I for one, am thankful for that. Although it hurts in the short term, progress, in the long term, is a good thing.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Good points really but I wouldn't assume that all of us are regular visitors.

Quite simply put Disney cannot be perfect and cannot have everything open for every guests every single day. That does not however in any way mean a guest cannot be disappointed and upset.

Believe me I'm not all for what Disney does especially since I started planning my Sep 2017 back in August 2015 and the immense but perceived by most as not so good changes since I started planning but people have to also be realistic about Disney.

I've not been on one vacation where every single thing went to plan. I've also never been on one vacation where I haven't missed something that I wanted to do either because there wasn't enough time, the operating hours of a place, the cost associated with it, the desires of those I'm vacationing with, etc. Also my husband isn't a fan of vacationing somewhere twice. He prefers a new place each time and while we have been able to make it to a handful of places again when I left the place the first time it was with the assumption that I was never going back...

This! All of this. I am NOT a regular visitor. I went to WDW this year sort of on a whim. I went to DL last year merely because I was in LA and thought why not. Before that, it had been a decade. It'll probably be another decade at least unless a friend or family member really wants to go or I just happen to be in the region. I rarely repeat trips and theme parks are usually very far down on my list of priorities any way. I do travel often, and every single trip I've taken, I've missed at least one thing I was looking forward to. Those are never "trip ruiners" because the disappointment passes and what I remember from the trip are the unexpected pleasures. Last year, I missed the fireworks at DL because they kept cancelling them, but you know what I remember instead? The swimming hole where I hiked down to swim through a cave in Eastern CA. This trip, I was sad to miss rivers of light, but riding Big Thunder during the MK fireworks is what I'll really remember clearly in a few years.

I do kind of understand disappointment in the case that if your kid misses something this year, they may be over the age limit next time you make it back. But seriously, is that going to ruin the kid's trip? Kids are pretty resilient and of all the memories I'm sure my mother wanted us to make...riding Splash Mountain a half dozen times to see the abject look of terror on our kid sister's face was probably not one of them. We make our own magic

 

[Westcoastwild]

Many enjoy those restaraunts and do care to get them.

I completely understand. I care too. I loved BoG and if I went back, I'd be trying like mad to get an ADR for there. But if it didn't work out, I'd still enjoy the trip. Same with ride refurbishments. The way I see it, that just gives me a chance to try something new. It's like the weather on any vacation- just because the weather isn't perfect, that doesn't mean your trip is ruined. You may just have to adjust your plans. What I don't understand is the despair and the swooning on this board over not getting certain ADRs or fast passes. You're still going to WDW...

 

[bluezy]

Good points really but I wouldn't assume that all of us are regular visitors.

Quite simply put Disney cannot be perfect and cannot have everything open for every guests every single day. That does not however in any way mean a guest cannot be disappointed and upset.

Believe me I'm not all for what Disney does especially since I started planning my Sep 2017 back in August 2015 and the immense but perceived by most as not so good changes since I started planning but people have to also be realistic about Disney.

I've not been on one vacation where every single thing went to plan. I've also never been on one vacation where I haven't missed something that I wanted to do either because there wasn't enough time, the operating hours of a place, the cost associated with it, the desires of those I'm vacationing with, etc. Also my husband isn't a fan of vacationing somewhere twice. He prefers a new place each time and while we have been able to make it to a handful of places again when I left the place the first time it was with the assumption that I was never going back...

Exactly. We've gone 7 times in the last 15 years but every time we went I assumed it will be our last trip (or last for many years) because at the time we didn't have any plans to go back. We wanted our kids to experience Disney World once in their childhood and at the time, we truly though that would be their "once and done" trip. When we went in 2009 (the trip where we had 12+ inches of rain fall over the 7 days we were there), I truly thought it would be our last trip (though it ended up *not* being our last trip) as our youngest child was 4 and this was "her" trip. Our oldest kids at the time were in college. At the time, we had no plans to return as a family. I figured my husband and I would go again once the kids were all grown and gone. The one ride I wanted our 4 year old to experience was IASW. Guess what. It was closed for refurbishment (which I knew ahead of time). Add that and a few other issues (terrible room location) to the horrible weather and it should have been a terrible trip. But it wasn't...because we chose not to let the negative things ruin our trip.

I completely understand. I care too. I loved BoG and if I went back, I'd be trying like mad to get an ADR for there. But if it didn't work out, I'd still enjoy the trip. Same with ride refurbishments. The way I see it, that just gives me a chance to try something new. It's like the weather on any vacation- just because the weather isn't perfect, that doesn't mean your trip is ruined. You may just have to adjust your plans. What I don't understand is the despair and the swooning on this board over not getting certain ADRs or fast passes. You're still going to WDW...

I completely agree. I don't get the fawning over the restaurants/ADRs at Disney. I can eat at far better restaurants at home (granted, we live within 45 minutes of a major city). Where we eat at Disney has zero impact on the "success" of our visit. And FP's...if I can't get one that I want either due to tiers or availability, we do that ride at rope drop or park close when waits are shortest. Or <gasp> we could wait in the standby line any time during the day. There are far more serious things to be upset about in life. Don't sweat the small stuff...and seriously, IMO, ADRs and FPs are small stuff in the grand scheme of things. I'm just so happy that I don't have to do laundry, cook meals, referee fights, or clean the house for 8+ days straight that I don't care if we just sit in the hotel room the whole time...I'm on vacation at Disney World!!!!!!

 

[mom2rtk]

The value of a trip to WDW is in the eye of the beholder. Some people value the unique dining experiences. Some people value being able to ride specific rides. I honestly would not invest what it takes for a Disney trip without knowing I would be able to do a certain number of things very high on my priority list. We were considering a trip to WDW this fall, but changed our minds after checking ADR availability and hearing about MSEP ending.

I think it's quite reasonable that Disney changes things up, and that they can't always give 180 days notice. But lately it seems like they have gone too far with this, making lots of last minute changes to entertainment and park hours after people spent a lot of time putting together detailed plans for their trip. I understand they want to change up the night parade. I actually think that's great. But I don't think pulling MSEP less than 60 days out, and after people had scheduled dinner packages with MSEP viewing was fair. I don't expect every decision to based on guest issues, but I expect guest issues to be a high priority. It just feels more and more like it's not a big part of the equation. Guests have ADR's scheduled? Just cancel them. Guests have FPs scheduled? Take them back.

 

[loves to dive]

I would just like to politely remind some of the PPs who don't understand why it's a big deal if something is closed or unavailable or why an ADR can be such a big deal that some people like myself do not go to a Disney park every year. Or every two years, or even every three. If something does not happen on this trip, it effectively never happens. I won't catch that show next time, ride that attraction next time, or eat at that restaurant next time. And that's before you add in the things that either have hard, set age limits for kids (like JTA), or you know there is only a small window where the kids will get excited for them (anything Disney Junior), so that even if we somehow do get back, it will be with a different age group of kids with different interests.
I understand both the disappointment that trips won't include certain features and the frustration that some things have to be planned far in advance to ensure you can do them (Akershus PPO breakfast) while you wait and wait to see if other things will be offered, requiring more reservations and planning (EMH) until (and possible after) you check in.

I am a frequent visitor but I do understand if you might have your heart set on a certain ride or experience and don't get to do it but let's be honest, doesn't that happen everywhere? We took a dive trip to Palau a number of years ago. It was a once in a lifetime trip, we knew from the get go we would never be able to go back. The amount of time it took to get there and back alone was not something my honey could do often, he owns his own computer consulting business, being out of contact with his clients for almost two weeks is not good. The amount of money it cost was not in our normal realm of vacation expenses. We went for one reason, I wanted to see manta rays and it is almost guaranteed you will see them. They are always at a certain spot almost every day so your chances of seeing them are pretty good, especially if you are there for any length of time. So we bit the bullet, even booked the VIP suite on the boat (a dive liveaboard sort of like a divers cruise but not very basic). The entire trip we saw 0, not one, not even a glimpse of a wing, manta rays. It is, however, the best dive trip we have ever been on and we've been on many. And I wasn't in the least bit disappointed, crap happens. The OP was trying to say that Disney on purpose was luring people with the promise of ROL and other things and then purposely not having them. This isn't what happened, they planned poorly, they had every intention of have ROL open, it just didn't work. They do still have AK open later hours there is just one thing not happening. As far as have to have that certain ADR, you only know or think you have to have it because other's have said it was a must have. If you've never experienced it there is no way you can know if it's good or bad and missing it shouldn't really be that big a deal. Imagine the opposite, you did all that planning because it was a must have, you got there, the food was horrible and everyone hated the experience. Is it Disney's fault? There are 4 parks and countless eating establishments, I can guarantee even if you go often like I do (twice a year) there is no way you can see and do everything so just enjoy what you do.

 

[mom2rtk]

Everything changes. Always has, always will.

The Disney World we went to as children no longer exists.

The Disney World our children go to this this year will not be available to them when they are older.

And I for one, am thankful for that. Although it hurts in the short term, progress, in the long term, is a good thing.

I love change in the Disney parks. I just don't like when they do things like take away the night parade with no replacement in the offing.

 

[HatboxHaint]

Never mind. You missed the point.

The point is things change and you go and enjoy it anyway. Which I'm sure will be the case.

 

[HatboxHaint]

JB was one of those things that they were darned if the do and darned if they don't. Most everyone who saw it said it wasn't good and didn't enjoy it. From what I understand part of the reason they stopped it was so they could rehearse and run through ROL. Pretty sure the powers that be when they announced ROL was starting on x date weren't sitting there gleefully rubbing their hands together and laughing manically about how they were luring everyone to the parks and then were going to take it away from them. It wasn't ready, bad planning, it happens. AK is open until 9 in Sept, which in my book is night and given how they have been slow in announcing hours, I'm guessing will be open late in Oct. as well. Heck fire, ROL might just be running then, who knows. As the year approaches fall and winter, all the parks cut their hours, why would AK stay open later than others?

Regardless of whether JB was good or bad, I won't be able to judge for myself. Nor will I be able to catch the awakenings, street entertainment or night safari. For good or bad.

 

[HatboxHaint]

[QUOTE="The OP was trying to say that Disney on purpose was luring people with the promise of ROL and other things and then purposely not having them. This isn't what happened, they planned poorly, they had every intention of have ROL open, it just didn't work. They do still have AK open later hours there is just one thing not happening. [/QUOTE]

YES they did! They lured people into planning vacations with ROL AND AK nighttime hours and now those things have been cut and nothing else offered as a suitable replacement at AK or another park IMO. A PP mentioned the Star Wars fireworks as a replacement, but those were being advertised in parallel with the new AK nighttime entertainment. Both in my opinion offset the closure of half the attractions at DHS. I'm looking for the upside here...what is WDW offering me to replace the AK nighttime experiences in early Oct????...and what I see on their website is they are offering me the opportunity to view MSEP "one last time".

 

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

I accept too things change and I actually like that. But when they expect us to book at 180 days then say hang on that's a party night .. Want your ADR in MK now? Well you have to buy a ticket or like PP said give more notice for a big change like removal of a parade. If we can plan at 180 so can they. Other things they can't like technical faults etc. I have no issue with that. Or even changing rides and parades but please more notice than we can book our FP+ and ADRs pretty please. I booked a ADR last year for HW & V and then it turned into a character buffet and the price almost doubled so I cancelled. Booked something else. That was no issue and I had a choice.

 

[HatboxHaint]

Yeah I mean I'm excited for Sep 2017 hoping they stay open later like this year but quite honestly anything more than 5pm is great. I guess that's why I don't see them "cutting" hrs because they could have easily said yup going back to 5pm folks (though I'm pretty sure a mutiny would have occurred).

They are shortening them from their summer timeframe (where operating hours are generally much longer than other parts of the year anyways aside from around holidays) but surely you were lured enough by WDW in 2010,2012 and 2014 despite operating hours that by this year's standards were very short. I mean that a main reason why people called AK a half-day park simply because of the operating hours.

Well over half of DHS is gone from those previous years and EPCOT future world has been gutted since then.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Well over half of DHS is gone from those previous years and EPCOT future world has been gutted since then.

Yes but we were mainly talking about AK offerings were we not?

See thing is I started planning my Sep 2017 well before they announced Toy Story Land and Star Wars land. I was already emotionally invested in going and now I have a severely limited DHS to go to...truth is I'll still have a blast going despite my disappointments in missing the expansions.

 

[Westcoastwild]

[QUOTE="The OP was trying to say that Disney on purpose was luring people with the promise of ROL and other things and then purposely not having them. This isn't what happened, they planned poorly, they had every intention of have ROL open, it just didn't work. They do still have AK open later hours there is just one thing not happening.

YES they did! They lured people into planning vacations with ROL AND AK nighttime hours and now those things have been cut and nothing else offered as a suitable replacement at AK or another park IMO. A PP mentioned the Star Wars fireworks as a replacement, but those were being advertised in parallel with the new AK nighttime entertainment. Both in my opinion offset the closure of half the attractions at DHS. I'm looking for the upside here...what is WDW offering me to replace the AK nighttime experiences in early Oct????...and what I see on their website is they are offering me the opportunity to view MSEP "one last time".[/QUOTE]


Okay...but did you personally decide to go this year JUST because of ROL and AK night time hours? Because- yes, I saw the advertisements and thought "hey, ROL looks amazing" BUT because of a series of coincidences, this is the year I could go to WDW. So I bought my tickets and then started planning. I could have waited for Star Wars or Pandora, but hey, maybe when those finally get built, I can't go.

What really strikes me as amusing is that so many people here say AK is not a full day. It doesn't appear to be #1 on anyone's list. If the mouse is really in a dark room somewhere counting his stacks of money and cackling evilly...you'd think he'd have a list of bait way more tempting than ROL. No one has even seen ROL and it could be a flop like Jungle Book...

 

[mom2rtk]

What really strikes me as amusing is that so many people here say AK is not a full day. It doesn't appear to be #1 on anyone's list. If the mouse is really in a dark room somewhere counting his stacks of money and cackling evilly...you'd think he'd have a list of bait way more tempting than ROL. No one has even seen ROL and it could be a flop like Jungle Book...

Mickey doesn't have to sit in a room counting his piles of money. Scrooge McDuck does that for him.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Mickey doesn't have to sit in a room counting his piles of money. Scrooge McDuck does that for him.

Omg I had completely forgotten about Scrooge mcduck!! You are correct, I humbly offer my apologies.

 

[HatboxHaint]

Omg I had completely forgotten about Scrooge mcduck!! You are correct, I humbly offer my apologies.

 

[HatboxHaint]

YES they did! They lured people into planning vacations with ROL AND AK nighttime hours and now those things have been cut and nothing else offered as a suitable replacement at AK or another park IMO. A PP mentioned the Star Wars fireworks as a replacement, but those were being advertised in parallel with the new AK nighttime entertainment. Both in my opinion offset the closure of half the attractions at DHS. I'm looking for the upside here...what is WDW offering me to replace the AK nighttime experiences in early Oct????...and what I see on their website is they are offering me the opportunity to view MSEP "one last time".

Okay...but did you personally decide to go this year JUST because of ROL and AK night time hours? Because- yes, I saw the advertisements and thought "hey, ROL looks amazing" BUT because of a series of coincidences, this is the year I could go to WDW. So I bought my tickets and then started planning. I could have waited for Star Wars or Pandora, but hey, maybe when those finally get built, I can't go.

What really strikes me as amusing is that so many people here say AK is not a full day. It doesn't appear to be #1 on anyone's list. If the mouse is really in a dark room somewhere counting his stacks of money and cackling evilly...you'd think he'd have a list of bait way more tempting than ROL. No one has even seen ROL and it could be a flop like Jungle Book...[/QUOTE]

Flop or not, I would like to experience it myself for what it is. The long awaited nighttime spectacular for a park that I really like.