Aulani and "TRANSIENT ACCOMMODATIONS TAX"...

[3happydancers]

Has anyone received and read the point chart for Aulani DVC? On the bottom it states information about a "transient accommodations tax" imposed by the state of Hawaii which, if I read this correctly, means we would be receiving a bill at the end of our stay at check out.

 

[jmatias]

Yes. Whenever we stay at a Marriott timeshare property in Hawaii we pay the tax.

Jen

 

[Tara]

If you do a search on this board you'll find many posts discussing this tax.

 

[3happydancers]

If you do a search on this board you'll find many posts discussing this tax.

Thanks Tara, I did not know that this was being discussed and this tax is new to me in general.

 

[aan1701]

This tax is the second biggest reason I will probably never stay there. The first being the min per night is 18 points. I can get a standard studio the same time of year at my home resort for half that price. Well I guess if I am lucky and DCL does go to HI, I can get a tour or something to see the resort, but I don't think I will ever stay there.

 

[3happydancers]

This tax is the second biggest reason I will probably never stay there. The first being the min per night is 18 points. I can get a standard studio the same time of year at my home resort for half that price. Well I guess if I am lucky and DCL does go to HI, I can get a tour or something to see the resort, but I don't think I will ever stay there.

I was thinking the same thing. I have already paid top $$$ for my DVC and was told that no other fees would be charged, and then I see this. If Hawaii charges the tax for the "standard" time shares and other resort stays that is one thing, but I do not consider ours a time share, rather it is a Vacation Club and is quite different. And like I said, when we purchased, we were told we would not be charged "any resort taxes" by our guide.

Too bad, Aulani looks beautiful.

 

[aan1701]

I was thinking the same thing. I have already paid top $$$ for my DVC and was told that no other fees would be charged, and then I see this. If Hawaii charges the tax for the "standard" time shares and other resort stays that is one thing, but I do not consider ours a time share, rather it is a Vacation Club and is quite different. And like I said, when we purchased, we were told we would not be charged "any resort taxes" by our guide.

Too bad, Aulani looks beautiful.

While I do agree with your statement, DVC is a timeshare. I do think that tax should be in the dues for the owners there. Sorry owners there. I am sure I have upset the new owners there but this is just my opinion. It is just like the upgrades at SSR. The SSR owners dues are covering those upgrades and my AKV dues do not even if I go stay at SSR. Or my AKV dues cover the cost of the animals. SSR owners don't pay for that, I do.

 

[CrazyDuck]

While I do agree with your statement, DVC is a timeshare. I do think that tax should be in the dues for the owners there. Sorry owners there. I am sure I have upset the new owners there but this is just my opinion. It is just like the upgrades at SSR. The SSR owners dues are covering those upgrades and my AKV dues do not even if I go stay at SSR. Or my AKV dues cover the cost of the animals. SSR owners don't pay for that, I do.

If the only ones who pay the tax are the people who own Aulani then they should be the only ones who get to stay there! Now if they roll the tax into everyones dues who have the ability to stay there then everyones dues should go up since we can all book Aulani. Then again that woulnt be fair to people who have no plans to ever stay there! Taxing the people upon checkout seems to be the only fair way for all DVC members!

Everyone will eventually have to pay for upgrades for their home resort as in the case of SSR. Everyones home has unique features that will pad their annual dues. The transient tax is imposed by the state of Hawaii and not by DVD. All visitors have to pay that! I don't ask AKV owners to cover the sales taxes I pay on souvenirs I purchase in the gift shops over in Jambo.

Aulani owners will be paying enough in maintenance fees real soon. I wouldnt be surprised if they are even higher than HHI with the next couple of years! Like HHI Aulani will be a stand alone resort so member fees will pay for most of the operating costs. The cost of living in HI is a lot higher than it is in SC! Aulani is oceanfront so the wear and tear will be significant on the resort! They will have to fund all the pools and all the other special features of Aulani (like the animal hospital). Utilities are ridiculous here! We have the highest water and electricity fees in the nation! All of these will contribute to ridiculous maintenance fees for Aulani owners. Paying for others TATs shouldn't be their burden too!

 

[Maistre Gracey]

If the only ones who pay the tax are the people who own Aulani then they should be the only ones who get to stay there! Now if they roll the tax into everyones dues who have the ability to stay there then everyones dues should go up since we can all book Aulani. Then again that woulnt be fair to people who have no plans to ever stay there! Taxing the people upon checkout seems to be the only fair way for all DVC members!

The transient tax is imposed by the state of Hawaii and not by DVD. All visitors have to pay that!

I don't agree with this logic..
I pay the government imposed taxes and expenses at my four home resorts, but Aulani owners are allowed to stay at them. As a PP stated, my AKV dues pay foe the animals yet BLT owners can stay there.

Put me in the camp of rolling it into Aulani annual fees. It really should be seamless.

MG

 

[RobDoc]

I was thinking the same thing. I have already paid top $$$ for my DVC and was told that no other fees would be charged, and then I see this. If Hawaii charges the tax for the "standard" time shares and other resort stays that is one thing, but I do not consider ours a time share, rather it is a Vacation Club and is quite different. And like I said, when we purchased, we were told we would not be charged "any resort taxes" by our guide.

Too bad, Aulani looks beautiful.

The tax is an additional charge only for those staying at the resort. It is not added to Aulani owners fees or any other owner fees, it is simply a state regulated tax on stays at any resort in HI.

 

[adminjedi]

Put me in the camp of rolling it into Aulani annual fees. It really should be seamless.MG

How do you "roll in" and assess a MF charge that is not assessed by the State until the stay?

 

[Maistre Gracey]

How do you "roll in" and assess a MF charge that is not assessed by the State until the stay?

Don't you know the amount per day of the tax? You could then asses an amount per point, assuming full occupancy. If the resort isn't filled everyday, you could roll over the excess much like they do now with the property taxes.

There may be a better way, but that's just off the cuff thinking.

MG

 

[JimC]

If I recollect accurately the state wanted the equivalent to a sales/hotel tax that applied to timeshares. I expect other states with high numbers of timeshares to attempt a similar tax. Florida and California are the most likely as they have severe state budget issues to reconcile and such a tax is generally a safe increase politically.

 

[wdrl]

The Hawaii Transient Accommodation Tax for 2011 will be about $0.1993 per point. It is based on half of the maintenance fee (currently $4.31) multiplied by 9.25%. For a weeklong stay that costs 175 points, the tax should be about $34.88. The tax is scheduled to revert to 7.25% by 2015

By the way, I notice that VGC's annual budget has a line item for Transient Occupancy Tax of $0.3529 per point.

 

[YourEveryDayAdam]

Legally, I don't think DVC can roll the tax in to the dues, according to Hawaii Law.

They can (and do) roll any property taxes in to the resort annual dues, but this isn't a property tax... it's a resort tax. It pays for the public beaches that the resorts use. (Most, if not all, beaches in Hawaii are public) The logic is that the person staying at the resort is the one using the touristy (beaches, etc.) amenities, so they should be the ones to pay.

Hawaii law is written that the person responsible for paying the tax is the person staying in the room. This means that if they roll the tax in to the dues, then they are incorrectly assessing the tax, since the Hawaii owners aren't always necessarily the ones staying in the room... they could be renting the points out, or using them at one of the other DVC properties and someone else is exchanging in.

I agree that isn't how it's typically done at DVC, with each resort owner paying for their own resort's amenities, but that is the way it's codified in to Hawaiian law, so that's the way it must be. Aulani owners will still pay for the private amenities of the resort...the pools, the mini water-park, etc. But this is a tax for the public amenities provided by the state...the beaches, etc.

 

[adminjedi]

Legally, I don't think DVC can roll the tax in to the dues, according to Hawaii Law.

They can (and do) roll any property taxes in to the resort annual dues, but this isn't a property tax... it's a resort tax. It pays for the public beaches that the resorts use. (Most, if not all, beaches in Hawaii are public) The logic is that the person staying at the resort is the one using the touristy (beaches, etc.) amenities, so they should be the ones to pay.

Hawaii law is written that the person responsible for paying the tax is the person staying in the room. This means that if they roll the tax in to the dues, then they are incorrectly assessing the tax, since the Hawaii owners aren't always necessarily the ones staying in the room... they could be renting the points out, or using them at one of the other DVC properties and someone else is exchanging in.

I agree that isn't how it's typically done at DVC, with each resort owner paying for their own resort's amenities, but that is the way it's codified in to Hawaiian law, so that's the way it must be. Aulani owners will still pay for the private amenities of the resort...the pools, the mini water-park, etc. But this is a tax for the public amenities provided by the state...the beaches, etc.

Thanks...I was actually looking for the Hawaiian law!

 

[CrazyDuck]

It pays for the public beaches that the resorts use. (Most, if not all, beaches in Hawaii are public) The logic is that the person staying at the resort is the one using the touristy (beaches, etc.) amenities, so they should be the ones to pay.

That's not all the tax is used for. It goes into a general fund split between the state and the individual counties. They use it to fund maintenance, improvements and services needed because of the burden that millions of tourists place on the state & counties. Some of the projects this tax pays for include sewers, utilities, highways, airports, public safety (police, lifeguards) etc..etc..

Just a FYI!

 

[WilsonFlyer]

OK. I have a question or two and I'm sure these have been addressed ad-nauseum...

Were owners notified about this special tax at purchase time and is it in their POS's? Surely it would have to be!

How can you be charged a hotel room tax on a room you own? Rhetorical question, I guess. I'm sure there's some loophole for timeshares in the Hawaiian law to cover this, but I'd like to hear somebody say it.

It's negliable $$ in the scheme of a Hawaiian vacation. I get that, but it just bugs me on GP.

Edit: I guess adminjedi sorta answered my question regarding the law above and I just saw it but I'd still argue that it is an owned property and not subject to a hotel tax.

 

[CrazyDuck]

Here's everything you need to know about the TAT: http://www.state.hi.us/tax/har/har_237d.pdf

Look closely at D-1-07 (g) and check out the examples.

 

[pilferk]

Legally, I don't think DVC can roll the tax in to the dues, according to Hawaii Law.

They can (and do) roll any property taxes in to the resort annual dues, but this isn't a property tax... it's a resort tax. It pays for the public beaches that the resorts use. (Most, if not all, beaches in Hawaii are public) The logic is that the person staying at the resort is the one using the touristy (beaches, etc.) amenities, so they should be the ones to pay.

Hawaii law is written that the person responsible for paying the tax is the person staying in the room. This means that if they roll the tax in to the dues, then they are incorrectly assessing the tax, since the Hawaii owners aren't always necessarily the ones staying in the room... they could be renting the points out, or using them at one of the other DVC properties and someone else is exchanging in.

I agree that isn't how it's typically done at DVC, with each resort owner paying for their own resort's amenities, but that is the way it's codified in to Hawaiian law, so that's the way it must be. Aulani owners will still pay for the private amenities of the resort...the pools, the mini water-park, etc. But this is a tax for the public amenities provided by the state...the beaches, etc.

Here's the wording, as provided by Chuck's link, as it concerns timeshares:

"Every plan manager shall be liable for and pay the transient accommodations tax as provided under section 237D- 2(d)"

And a further example:

"A, a time share interval owner, has use of a time share unit in Waikiki for two
weeks at the beginning of August. In 1999, A occupies the unit for the two weeks in August. The
plan manager is liable for the transient accommodations tax. In 2000, A exchanges the occupancy
of the unit for the two weeks in August for occupancy of a time share unit in California. For 2000,
A is not subject to the transient accommodations tax. The plan manager, however, shall be liable
for the transient accommodations tax under section 237D- 2(d), HRS, if the unit is occupied. The
plan manager shall be liable for the transient accommodations tax under section 237D-2(b) if the
unit is rented out by the plan manager.
In 2001, A rents the time share unit during the two weeks in August to Mr. Tourist for a
consideration. In 2001, the time share unit is being furnished as a transient accommodation and
the plan manager is liable for the transient accommodations tax for the two weeks under section
237D-2(d), HRS. A is not liable for the transient accommodations tax."

Note that in all examples, the wording indicates that ULTIMATELY the plan manager is responsible/liable for the tax, NOT the individual using the accommodations. One would expect that the plan manager would collect the fees from the individual using the premises, but I don't see anything in the wording in Chuck's link that would say the "tenant" HAS to be the one paying. In fact, it would be somewhat odd for them to try to implement that, since the tenant may very well not be a citizen of Hawaii, and recourse against that individual, in terms of collection, would be pretty difficult.

I don't see anything in the link provided that would preclude DVC from rolling this into dues via "estimation", like they do property taxes. The way I read it, they don't HAVE to, though. It protects the individual owner from the plan manager coming back, AFTER the fact, and demanding the owner pay the tax even though they were not the occupant. But it doesn't seem to indicate the plan can't (so long as it's in the POS) handle the tax assessment as a quantifiable expense. Now, it may cause some operational headaches to do things that way..and so they may not (or have not) chosen to do it. But I don't see anything that would lead me to believe they can't.

Can anyone provide a counterpoint? Am I missing something?

There even appear to be 2 different ways to impose the tax:

Imposition and rates. For the purposes of this chapter, there shall be levied and
assessed and collected each month a tax of:
(1) 7.25 per cent on the gross rental or gross rental proceeds derived from furnishing transient
accommodations during the period January 1, 1999, and thereafter; or
(2) 7.25 per cent on the unit’s “fair market rental value” for the period beginning on January 1, 1999,
and thereafter. The tax shall be assessed and collected each month on the occupant of a resort time
share vacation unit. Every time share plan manager shall be liable for and pay to the department
the transient accommodations tax. If a time share unit is rented, the plan manager shall be liable
for the transient accommodations tax on the unit’s “fair market rental value” under section 237D-
2(c) and (d), HRS.

Certainly they could figure out the fair market rental value, per year, per unit and assess a more straightforward determination of the tax..and then roll it into the dues.