Attention animal rights activists!

[mudpuppy]

I've been gone most of the day and I finally found this thread and I must say I'm glad it turned into a more friendly debate today as opposed to yesterday.

 

[RoyalCanadian]

And when it is necessary, it should be done in a humane manner. The seal hunt isn’t necessary. Nobody is eating those seals to stay alive. Seal hunters are making money by selling their pelts. They could make money in other ways if they wanted to.
As far as “culling" the population I don’t see that as necessary either. The fishermen could find another occupation if there isn’t enough fish for them to catch. People change careers all the time. No big deal.

Please allow me to address these points I have snipped from the rest of your post.

• the seal hunt is carried out in a very humane manner. Over 98% of all seals killed are killed instantly.
• The seal hunt is necessary for economic reasons. The hunt supplies up to 1/3 of the annual income of some sealers.
• You obviously haven't been to Atlantic Canada. It is a very economically depressed region of Canada. Fishstocks are regularly overfished by European fishing fleets from Portugal and Spain. Canadian fishermen aren't allowed to fish for cod, a mainstay of the Canadian Atlantic fishing economy for hundreds of years.
• It is a big deal to change careers in Atlantic Canada. If you have spent your entire life fishing, what else are you going to do? The assumption that it's "no big deal" is incredibly naive and insulting.
• The seal hunt is necessary on environmental grounds. The current seal population is far in excess of 5.5 milliion seals. If allowed to grow at an unchecked rate they will not have enough food to eat. Where will the IFAW and HSUS be when the seals are starving?
• What are some other ways in which seal hunters could make money besides selling seal pelts at upwards of $90 each? Perhaps make knick-knacks for the local craft store or stuff envelopes. Once again, your assumptions sent in from urban Europe are incredibly naive and insulting to this Canadian.

 

[RoyalCanadian]

Nobody wants to move but sometimes you have to do things you don't want to do. All I'm saying is they can avoid slaughtering the seals. There are options for them.

I doubt the people in your hometown in Ohio can trace their ancestry back nearly four centuries. This is the way it can be in some places in Atlantic Canada.

Where do you suggest the Inuit seal hunters move to? They should give up their way of life that has sustained them for centuries because you think it's no big deal?

Where do you suggest the people who have lived along the coasts of Newfoundland, Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick move to?

These people are earning subsistence wages providing seafood for world markets -- including a good many American restaurant which continue to serve Canadian seafood in spite of the bogus HSUS seafood boycott. They supplement that income with the seal hunt -- carried out in a professional and very humane manner, despite the lies of the IFAW. The humanity and professionalism of the hunt is monitored and ensured by Canadian fisheries officers and Canadian veterinary monitoring groups.

 

[RoyalCanadian]

DL - I second that!

If you are in such an agreement with the thoughts of relocating entire populations just because you do not approve of a legal and humanely conducted hunt then perhaps you would be interested in contributing towards the cost of unemployment insurance benefits, relocation costs, retraining costs, and compensation for lost investment.
Fishing trawlers are ever so impractical in the oilfields of Ft. McMurray, Alberta where a mobile trailer home costs upwards of $300,000 and workers -- many of them having lost their jobs as fishermen in the Atlantic regions of Canada -- are forced to live in cramped dormitories.

 

[Sylvester McBean]

bi·ol·o·gy
n.
1. The science of life and of living organisms, including their structure, function, growth, origin, evolution, and distribution. It includes botany and zoology and all their subdivisions.
2. The life processes or characteristic phenomena of a group or category of living organisms: the biology of viruses.
3. The plant and animal life of a specific area or region.


until someone can provide me a clear and concise departure from picking an orange from a tree and ending it's natural life to doing the same with an animal, I don't get vegetarians. life is nothing more than a group of dividing cells with an intended shape and form. wild omniverous mammals don't differentiate between plants or animals, they just eat what they can in order to survive.

 

[Dakota_Lynn]

bi·ol·o·gy
n.
1. The science of life and of living organisms, including their structure, function, growth, origin, evolution, and distribution. It includes botany and zoology and all their subdivisions.
2. The life processes or characteristic phenomena of a group or category of living organisms: the biology of viruses.
3. The plant and animal life of a specific area or region.


until someone can provide me a clear and concise departure from picking an orange from a tree and ending it's natural life to doing the same with an animal, I don't get vegetarians. life is nothing more than a group of dividing cells with an intended shape and form. wild omniverous mammals don't differentiate between plants or animals, they just eat what they can in order to survive.

This is a joke, right? April Fools? Great one! You had me going for a minute! I was just so startled for that brief moment thinking, "oh my God, how could anybody be stupid enough to not see the difference between a breathing, feeling creature and an orange!" Then I looked at the date and saw it was April Fools! Fabulous! This is what I love about the DIS; people can bring a sense of humor into any discussion! Good job! Thanks for the laugh!

 

[disney50fam]

I signed also!

 

[Planogirl]

This is a joke, right? April Fools? Great one! You had me going for a minute! I was just so startled for that brief moment thinking, "oh my God, how could anybody be stupid enough to not see the difference between a breathing, feeling creature and an orange!" Then I looked at the date and saw it was April Fools! Fabulous! This is what I love about the DIS; people can bring a sense of humor into any discussion! Good job! Thanks for the laugh!

Are you sure the comment was an April Fool's joke? I was a bit stunned too but if you say it wasn't serious, I feel very relieved. I wouldn't even know how to debate a comment that bizarre.

 

[Sylvester McBean]

This is a joke, right? April Fools? Great one! You had me going for a minute! I was just so startled for that brief moment thinking, "oh my God, how could anybody be stupid enough to not see the difference between a breathing, feeling creature and an orange!" Then I looked at the date and saw it was April Fools! Fabulous! This is what I love about the DIS; people can bring a sense of humor into any discussion! Good job! Thanks for the laugh!

totally serious, but thanks for calling me stupid for MY beliefs.

 

[Dakota_Lynn]

totally serious, but thanks for calling me stupid for MY beliefs.

Oh no! Please accept my sincerest apologies. Had I thought for a second you were serious I would never have called your beliefs stupid. It just seemed surprising to me that's all...and then I saw the date and you know lots of people had April Fools Jokes on the board (I myself played one that has amused me all day long!) that I thought for sure this too was a joke. Again, please accept my apologies. By all means, you have every right to compare oranges and seals and although I disagree, by all means I respect your beliefs!

 

[Dakota_Lynn]

I signed also!

Good job, Stephanie! Thank you!

 

[jess_denmark]

I signed also!

Good job Spephanie

 

[Dakota_Lynn]

Please allow me to address these points I have snipped from the rest of your post.

• the seal hunt is carried out in a very humane manner. Over 98% of all seals killed are killed instantly.
• The seal hunt is necessary for economic reasons. The hunt supplies up to 1/3 of the annual income of some sealers.
• You obviously haven't been to Atlantic Canada. It is a very economically depressed region of Canada. Fishstocks are regularly overfished by European fishing fleets from Portugal and Spain. Canadian fishermen aren't allowed to fish for cod, a mainstay of the Canadian Atlantic fishing economy for hundreds of years.
• It is a big deal to change careers in Atlantic Canada. If you have spent your entire life fishing, what else are you going to do? The assumption that it's "no big deal" is incredibly naive and insulting.
• The seal hunt is necessary on environmental grounds. The current seal population is far in excess of 5.5 milliion seals. If allowed to grow at an unchecked rate they will not have enough food to eat. Where will the IFAW and HSUS be when the seals are starving?
• What are some other ways in which seal hunters could make money besides selling seal pelts at upwards of $90 each? Perhaps make knick-knacks for the local craft store or stuff envelopes. Once again, your assumptions sent in from urban Europe are incredibly naive and insulting to this Canadian.

Please allow me to address these points I have snipped from the rest of your post.

• the seal hunt is carried out in a very humane manner. Over 98% of all seals killed are killed instantly. Opponents of the hunt claim that up to 42% of the seals carcasses examined by vets were likely conscious when skinned and conclude that the hunt is unacceptably inhumane. Supporters of the hunt claim that 98% of the seals “are killed in an acceptably humane manner.” I’m afraid I disagree that being skinned alive is humane. Besides, even if your side is “right” that still means that 5000 seals are killed in an inhumane manner. That is too many!
• The seal hunt is necessary for economic reasons. We disagree. The hunt supplies up to 1/3 of the annual income of some sealers. Then I suggest they make up the other third in another way.
• You obviously haven't been to Atlantic Canada. It is a very economically depressed region of Canada. Fishstocks are regularly overfished by European fishing fleets from Portugal and Spain. Well then bring up the issue with Spain and Portugal and stop taking it out on the seals. Canadian fishermen aren't allowed to fish for cod, a mainstay of the Canadian Atlantic fishing economy for hundreds of years. More evidence that they should relocate to a more profitable location.
• It is a big deal to change careers in Atlantic Canada. Yes, I believe it is. If you have spent your entire life fishing, what else are you going to do? Retrain and find a new job. It takes two years of education to become a licensed sealer - so clearly fishermen can learn new stuff too. The assumption that it's "no big deal" is incredibly naive and insulting. I’m not overly concerned about insulting you or anybody else when innocent animals are being brutally slaughtered for nothing more than money.
• The seal hunt is necessary on environmental grounds. The current seal population is far in excess of 5.5 milliion seals. The current human population is 6.5 billion. If allowed to grow at an unchecked rate they will not have enough food to eat. Neither will humans. Does that mean we need to “cull” human life as well? Where will the IFAW and HSUS be when the seals are starving? What are you doing about starving children all around the world? On a side note to this, starvation is a normal part of nature. I prefer to allow nature to “cull” overpopulated species. I see no reason why humans need to take that role at all.
• What are some other ways in which seal hunters could make money besides selling seal pelts at upwards of $90 each? It’s called an education. Perhaps make knick-knacks for the local craft store or stuff envelopes. Hey, that’s a possibility. Once again, your assumptions sent in from urban Europe Ohio and Washington are in the USA are incredibly naive and insulting to this Canadian. That’s the second time you mentioned feeling insulted. Are you looking for an apology? If so, may I direct you to mudpuppies post number 46?

 

[Dakota_Lynn]

I doubt the people in your hometown in Ohio can trace their ancestry back nearly four centuries. This is the way it can be in some places in Atlantic Canada.

Where do you suggest the Inuit seal hunters move to? They should give up their way of life that has sustained them for centuries because you think it's no big deal?

Where do you suggest the people who have lived along the coasts of Newfoundland, Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick move to?

These people are earning subsistence wages providing seafood for world markets -- including a good many American restaurant which continue to serve Canadian seafood in spite of the bogus HSUS seafood boycott. They supplement that income with the seal hunt -- carried out in a professional and very humane manner, despite the lies of the IFAW. The humanity and professionalism of the hunt is monitored and ensured by Canadian fisheries officers and Canadian veterinary monitoring groups.

I doubt the people in your hometown in Ohio can trace their ancestry back nearly four centuries. Having seen the devastation of the loss of their primary industries, I honestly can’t imagine it could be any worse. Thousands of people were out of work. The town turned to ruins. And frankly, I don’t see why it matters how long somebody was in the given industry. Whether it’s four centuries or one, the effect of losing one’s source of income is devastating, especially when it’s a whole town involved as was the case in my hometown (and many others around the USA). Most people had generations of family history in that Ohio town so yes, I do know what your Inuits are up against. Relocating to WashingtonState was hard at first, but a fabulous move and a wonderful life adventure. Take it from me, it can be done and the experience can be very rewarding. This is the way it can be in some places in Atlantic Canada.

Where do you suggest the Inuit seal hunters move to? Well, when it happened in Ohio people I know moved all over the US. Canada’s a big country so I think there are lots of nice options. If it were me I’d choose Vancouver. They should give up their way of life that has sustained them for centuries because you think it's no big deal? Indeed I do, yes.

Where do you suggest the people who have lived along the coasts of Newfoundland, Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick move to? We already covered that one. I suggested Vancouver but there are other nice Canadian cities; would you like me to supply you with a list?

These people are earning subsistence wages providing seafood for world markets – as my father and many others did building cars and manufacturing steel -including a good many American restaurant which continue to serve Canadian seafood in spite of the bogus HSUS seafood boycott. They supplement that income with the seal hunt -- carried out in a professional and very humane manner, despite the lies of the IFAW. The humanity and professionalism of the hunt is monitored and ensured by Canadian fisheries officers and Canadian veterinary monitoring groups. Yes, and independent veterinary groups strongly disagree with the government’s veterinarians!

 

[mudpuppy]

bi·ol·o·gy
n.
1. The science of life and of living organisms, including their structure, function, growth, origin, evolution, and distribution. It includes botany and zoology and all their subdivisions.
2. The life processes or characteristic phenomena of a group or category of living organisms: the biology of viruses.
3. The plant and animal life of a specific area or region.


until someone can provide me a clear and concise departure from picking an orange from a tree and ending it's natural life to doing the same with an animal, I don't get vegetarians. life is nothing more than a group of dividing cells with an intended shape and form. wild omniverous mammals don't differentiate between plants or animals, they just eat what they can in order to survive.

I just don't get it!! I've heard of trying to compare apples and oranges....but seals and oranges????

 

[jess_denmark]

[*]You obviously haven't been to Atlantic Canada. It is a very economically depressed region of Canada. Fishstocks are regularly overfished by European fishing fleets from Portugal and Spain. Canadian fishermen aren't allowed to fish for cod, a mainstay of the Canadian Atlantic fishing economy for hundreds of years.[/list]

Why don't You address your Primer and the Canadian Fishing Authorities and have them put a stop to those foreign fishers since they make local Canadian fishermen unemployed. By putting an end to that your fishermen won’t have to take it out on the seals and the fishermen won’t have to re-locate.

Well, here in Denmark we aren’t allowed to fish for cod either. We too used to have tons and tons of cod in our waters just a few years back. We live in 2006 now and things aren’t the way they used to be anymore. There are too many fishers in certain parts of the world now and not enough fish for all of them and soon your “healthy” population of harp seals won’t be so “healthy” anymore either if your fishermen keep slaughtering them for no other reason but to make extra money so they can all stay in this fishing industry that they obviously can't live off anymore.

 

[jess_denmark]

If you are in such an agreement with the thoughts of relocating entire populations just because you do not approve of a legal and humanely conducted hunt then perhaps you would be interested in contributing towards the cost of unemployment insurance benefits, relocation costs, retraining costs, and compensation for lost investment.
Fishing trawlers are ever so impractical in the oilfields of Ft. McMurray, Alberta where a mobile trailer home costs upwards of $300,000 and workers -- many of them having lost their jobs as fishermen in the Atlantic regions of Canada -- are forced to live in cramped dormitories.

If you are in such an agreement with the thoughts of relocating oh I am, I suggested it in the first place entire populations I didn’t say entire populations, I said some of the fishermen will have to find other work or re-locate since they obviously can’t make enough money in this profession anymore just because you do not approve of a legal and humanely conducted hunt Legal yes, unfortunately – humanely conducted, definitely not and no I definitely don't aprove of it then perhaps you would be interested in contributing towards the cost of unemployment insurance benefits, relocation costs, retraining costs, and compensation for lost investment. You are right; it IS tough to lose ones job and having to re-locate hence stories mentioned in this thread earlier. But obviously it can be done since so many people have done it before. Fishing trawlers are ever so impractical in the oilfields of Ft. McMurray, Alberta you are right, where a mobile trailer home costs upwards of $300,000 and workers -- many of them having lost their jobs as fishermen in the Atlantic regions of Canada -- are forced to live in cramped dormitories. I’ve been too Canada and I’ve seen Canada on maps. There are actually other places to re-locate to then just the oilfields in Ft. McMurray in Alberta. A Canadian friend of mine actually works in those oilfields. Just a regular job! She says it is tough sometimes but she’s perfectly happy working there and wouldn’t change it for anything. So it is actually possible to be happy working there.

 

[AllieKat]

Thank you so much for posting this. I'm positive that it's helping to bring awareness to this disgusting issue. I believe that giving a human voice to those that don't have one is very important. Again, thank you.

 

[jess_denmark]

Thank you so much for posting this. I'm positive that it's helping to bring awareness to this disgusting issue. I believe that giving a human voice to those that don't have one is very important. Again, thank you.

You are very right Alliekat. This is an important issue indeed!

 

[jess_denmark]

bi·ol·o·gy
n.
1. The science of life and of living organisms, including their structure, function, growth, origin, evolution, and distribution. It includes botany and zoology and all their subdivisions.
2. The life processes or characteristic phenomena of a group or category of living organisms: the biology of viruses.
3. The plant and animal life of a specific area or region.


until someone can provide me a clear and concise departure from picking an orange from a tree and ending it's natural life to doing the same with an animal, I don't get vegetarians. life is nothing more than a group of dividing cells with an intended shape and form. wild omniverous mammals don't differentiate between plants or animals, they just eat what they can in order to survive.

Sylvester, care to expand a little on this theory???