Attack of the Lakeshore Lodge

[Kailunkat]

Maybe a restricted vs unrestricted thing/direct vs resale?

 

[Cfabar1]

All I know is, for me, there are not enough meat on the bones with the trust the way it is currently structured... I do not have faith that DVC won't play games with it - especially over a 50 year horizon... That will be interesting to see as well... what is the LSL expiration date...

 

[Chili327]

All I know is, for me, there are not enough meat on the bones with the trust the way it is currently structured... I do not have faith that DVC won't play games with it - especially over a 50 year horizon... That will be interesting to see as well... what is the LSL expiration date...

Does it have to have an expiration date?

 

[Genie+]

4.3.2 In establishing or effectuating different Trust Use Plans for a specified portion or portions of the Trust Properties, DVD reserves the exclusive right, in its discretion, to:

(i) establish or amend the characteristics, use or reservation rights, or benefits of each Trust Use Plan;

(ii) provide that a particular Trust Use Plan is appurtenant to specific Vacation Ownership Interests and available to the Owners of such Vacation Ownership Interests;

(iii) provide for additional classes of Vacation Ownership Interests or other classifications or attributes of classifications for each Trust Use Plan;

(iv) allow for the segregation of costs of maintaining, managing, or operating the Trust Use Plan or any Trust Property designated as being subject to such Trust Use Plan from any other Trust Use Plan and any other Trust Property, including allowing for a requirement to provide for a budget for the Trust Use Plan separate from the budget or budgets for the other Trust Use Plans;

(v) provide that, in instances where an Owner vote is required or requested by DVD, only Owners with rights in the Trust Use Plan appurtenant to their Vacation Ownership Interest have voting rights with respect to such Trust Use Plan and the related Trust Property;

(vi) provide that only Owners with rights in the Trust Use Plan appurtenant to their Vacation Ownership Interest share in the proceeds, if any, arising from the sale or liquidation of the related Trust Property;

(vii) allow interests in the same underlying Component Site to be subjected to different Trust Use Plans;

(viii) permit Vacation Ownership Interests to be included in more than one Trust Use Plan or be reassigned from one Trust Use Plan to a different Trust Use Plan or Trust Use Plans; and

(ix) the right to amend the Trust Documents to implement any of the foregoing.

—————

Owners can be ‘reassigned’ into a different TUP. That doesn’t sound great.

 

[Sandisw]

Interesting that it mentions classes of ownership interests. What is that?

I am not sure sure I can speculate…it might be the resale vs direct aspect.

With a leasehold condo, since you buy an ownership interest into the actual property, FL 721 discusses that they can’t have different rules when it comes to home resort base on how one buys.

Since this is a RtU plan, I don’t know how or if that applies, especially since they have the right to update your terms in certain ways.

 

[Sandisw]

Does it have to have an expiration date?

The CFW plan has one but I don’t think legally it has to.

However, the land is owned by TWDC and these, like the others, have a ground lease, which I imagine Disney wants

 

[Sandisw]

4.3.2 In establishing or effectuating different Trust Use Plans for a specified portion or portions of the Trust Properties, DVD reserves the exclusive right, in its discretion, to:

(i) establish or amend the characteristics, use or reservation rights, or benefits of each Trust Use Plan;

(ii) provide that a particular Trust Use Plan is appurtenant to specific Vacation Ownership Interests and available to the Owners of such Vacation Ownership Interests;

(iii) provide for additional classes of Vacation Ownership Interests or other classifications or attributes of classifications for each Trust Use Plan;

(iv) allow for the segregation of costs of maintaining, managing, or operating the Trust Use Plan or any Trust Property designated as being subject to such Trust Use Plan from any other Trust Use Plan and any other Trust Property, including allowing for a requirement to provide for a budget for the Trust Use Plan separate from the budget or budgets for the other Trust Use Plans;

(v) provide that, in instances where an Owner vote is required or requested by DVD, only Owners with rights in the Trust Use Plan appurtenant to their Vacation Ownership Interest have voting rights with respect to such Trust Use Plan and the related Trust Property;

(vi) provide that only Owners with rights in the Trust Use Plan appurtenant to their Vacation Ownership Interest share in the proceeds, if any, arising from the sale or liquidation of the related Trust Property;

(vii) allow interests in the same underlying Component Site to be subjected to different Trust Use Plans;

(viii) permit Vacation Ownership Interests to be included in more than one Trust Use Plan or be reassigned from one Trust Use Plan to a different Trust Use Plan or Trust Use Plans; and

(ix) the right to amend the Trust Documents to implement any of the foregoing.

—————

Owners can be ‘reassigned’ into a different TUP. That doesn’t sound great.

Thought here….that moving to a different plan could be a way to keep resale restrictions if they combine component sites into the same RTU?

If you buy resale you get put into a plan that does not include trades via BVTC…but gives you the right to the one property?

I still lean more likely than not that LSL and CFW will be one home resort, just like PVB tower was added to PVB longhouses and bungalows.

 

[Cfabar1]

(i) establish or amend the characteristics, use or reservation rights, or benefits of each Trust Use Plan;

I lost interest in the trust product after reading this... didn't need to make it any further...

 

[Chili327]

I lost interest in the trust product after reading this... didn't need to make it any further...

Indeed, let that be for the next generation. lol

 

[BayTower2010]

I bought DVC in 2010, after 15 years of studying the product. When I pulled the trigger, part of the decision was I trusted Disney and DVC management. In the last 10 years, DVC/Disney has done their darnest to destroy that trust. Making resale owners second hand citizens, taking away perks, resale restrictions. Now, I would never trust DVC on anything that is not explicitly spelled out. like Buying an open ended trust that you have no guarantees on what you are buying. Not only would I not buy into this, but anyone who comes to me and asks I would strongly recommend to not buy--and there are a lot of friends and relatives who know we own and ask my advice.

 

[Chili327]

I bought DVC in 2010, after 15 years of studying the product. When I pulled the trigger, part of the decision was I trusted Disney and DVC management. In the last 10 years, DVC/Disney has done their darnest to destroy that trust. Making resale owners second hand citizens, taking away perks, resale restrictions. Now, I would never trust DVC on anything that is not explicitly spelled out. like Buying an open ended trust that you have no guarantees on what you are buying.

Not only would I not buy into this, but anyone who comes to me and asks I would strongly recommend to not buy--and there are a lot of friends and relatives who know we own and ask my advice.

Agree 100%

 

[DVCsloth]

Is it possible that the Trust could change the way others could trade into resorts covered under the Trust? I know right now we can trade into CFW at seven months, just wondering if this could be changed in the future.

 

[Cfabar1]

Is it possible that the Trust could change the way others could trade into resorts covered under the Trust? I know right now we can trade into CFW at seven months, just wondering if this could be changed in the future.

I have to imagine that they could exclude trust properties from trading in some fashion or another, if they chose to...

I would imagine they will need a mechanism to limit trading to only certain classes of ownership for example - and have that written in already...

I also have to presume that there is a way to dissolve the Buena Vista Trading Company which manages the trades - if for no other circumstance than say if Disney were to cease being the operator of a property that participates in the BVTC...

 

[Sandisw]

Is it possible that the Trust could change the way others could trade into resorts covered under the Trust? I know right now we can trade into CFW at seven months, just wondering if this could be changed in the future.

Yes…we are not guaranteed to trade at 7 months.

DVD can extend the home resort period and then trades via BVTC kick in then.

They could decide to have a middle level of trading for trust properties that kick in prior to trades via BVTC.

But, I am not sure if they’d want to complicate like that right now….in 2042? Maybe if they do indeed sell LSL or any future resorts under a trust model.

We still don’t know if they will.

 

[mkatsy]

Yes…we are not guaranteed to trade at 7 months.

Yup 721.57 (2)(b) the state says the only thing they owe us is our home resort … the rest is gravy.

 

[juliebee]

Yup 721.57 (2)(b) the state says the only thing they owe us is our home resort … the rest is gravy.

Yikes... that really brings home the message about "buy where you want to stay".

 

[patm95]

the trust is souring my take on dvc. I really want continue buying points with new resorts but it sounds like the trust model could really screw us if they wanted to. The way I take it, they could make our points with 20% less every year. So if I buy a contract that would give me 10 days in a studio per year, in five years I’d only get about 3?

 

[mkatsy]

the trust is souring my take on dvc. I really want continue buying points with new resorts but it sounds like the trust model could really screw us if they wanted to. The way I take it, they could make our points with 20% less every year. So if I buy a contract that would give me 10 days in a studio per year, in five years I’d only get about 3?

Without a fixed point chart, I don’t really understand the benefit to pre paying for accommodations. Wouldn’t the rising dues, combined with the rising point chart, create a “pinch point” where it’s better to just rent a hotel room?

 

[Tatebeck]

Well dues are the taxes and then funds actually used to run the resorts. So if they kept increasing the cost for existing rooms, the dues per point would have to decrease fairly proportionally to the increase in point cost I think?

 

[patm95]

Well dues are the taxes and then funds actually used to run the resorts. So if they kept increasing the cost for existing rooms, the dues per point would have to decrease fairly proportionally to the increase in point cost I think?

It certainly could, but it would end up being more expensive if I had to keep adding on every other year to have enough points for the same vacation I initially bought in for. Say I bought 200 points for 40k. Then when they inflate the point charts 20% I’d have to add on another 40 points to get the same vacation I had the prior year. That’d be an additional 9400 dollars at today’s rates.