Attack of the Lakeshore Lodge

[BrianLo]

I also really think CFW will be added as part of this, something has got to give with those slow sales and then top it off with people being so excited for this LL will further drive people away from buying CFW as a standalone and buy LL. This wasn't even on my radar and now after seeing this I'm excited

I really think the cash rooms will prevent that. If VLL is part of the Cabins, which is part of Fort Wilderness… than Fort Wilderness is part of Lakeshore Lodge.

They don’t want to do that to their fancy pool complex for cash guests.

There’s a lot of logistical things that the cabins would sink the balance of the rooms and maintenance fees.

I don’t know what they do with the cabins other than the developer properly valuing them and dropping the base price to 199$, with proper incentives on top.

 

[TheDailyMoo]

With so many rooms, the sheer number guests at this resort's pool complex is going to make the peak times at the Lava pool look like a private plunge pool. FW area going to go from "relaxing get away" to Volcano Bay. That being said I would like very much for them to take my money now.

 

[Cfabar1]

Perhaps they can make access to the pool a direct perk only and have a minimum points requirement?

Maybe even priority access for those with membership beyond+

 

[Sandisw]

I really think the cash rooms will prevent that. If VLL is part of the Cabins, which is part of Fort Wilderness… than Fort Wilderness is part of Lakeshore Lodge.

They don’t want to do that to their fancy pool complex for cash guests.

There’s a lot of logistical things that the cabins would sink the balance of the rooms and maintenance fees.

I don’t know what they do with the cabins other than the developer properly valuing them and dropping the base price to 199$, with proper incentives on top.

My guess is that if that is the way they want to go…being the same RTU plan….its been figured out on how to work it logistics wise.

And, if they go with the trust for the DVC part of this project, they have a way to rebalance amongst component sites too

I still think, given the lack of push to sell CFW, that there is a plan to incorporate them together.

 

[Girlstar30]

My guess is that if that is the way they want to go…being the same RTU plan….its been figured out on how to work it logistics wise.

And, if they go with the trust for the DVC part of this project, they have a way to rebalance amongst component sites too

I still think, given the lack of push to sell CFW, that there is a plan to incorporate them together.

 

[GADisneyDad14]

May be worth noting just for context... YC/BC has ~1,473 rooms, Poly ~1,132, CR ~1,090, GF ~1,017, BWI ~904, WL ~743. 956 units is a big number, but not entirely out of the realm of current resort sizes. Or if you did want to lump in CFW that'd get up to ~1,320.

 

[zavandor]

Perhaps they can make access to the pool a direct perk only and have a minimum points requirement?

Maybe even priority access for those with membership beyond+

Then the maintenance of the pool would have to be paid by DVD, not with dues. Chances of it happening: zero.

 

[WinterSolider]

I don’t know what they do with the cabins other than the developer properly valuing them and dropping the base price to 199$, with proper incentives on top.

Are people balking at the list price, or at the dues? Fixing the latter might be more important than the former.

 

[Brian Noble]

I suspect it's a combination of a lot of things. The list price and dues might be the least important ones---for the most part, a prospective buyer gets an overview of the resorts available (based on whatever the Guide chooses to tell them) and it is probably not until we start getting serious that the numbers come out. Remember: the average buyer is not a DVC DISBoarder.

Instead, I suspect that there are two more important factors.

The first is that CFW is a bit of a niche product. Unless you are a Fort fan, the location is a negative, not a positive---and most prospective buyers are there because of the Parks, not the Fort. The cabins themselves are very nice, but the overall experience is more isolated---resort amenities are not an easy walk away, etc. etc. etc. There is only one style of lodging, compared to the other resorts which all (now) have a full range of options. Those options may not be bookable without an atomic clock, but prospective buyers don't know that.

The second: I suspect the Guides are not pushing CFW. At. All. It seems pretty obvious that CFW will eventually be part of a larger resort complex, and that resort complex is going to have a huge chunk of points that will take a while to sell. I suspect they'd prefer to have RIV off the books before that happens. And, at the current rate, that seems pretty likely. Reflections is slated for 2027 occupancy. RIV is on target to sell out sometime in the second half of 2026.

At the end of the day, timeshare is a product that is sold, not bought. When the Guides get serious about selling the resort, it will sell---even at the current price point, and even with high dues.

 

[WinterSolider]

I suspect it's a combination of a lot of things. The list price and dues might be the least important ones---for the most part, a prospective buyer gets an overview of the resorts available (based on whatever the Guide chooses to tell them) and it is probably not until we start getting serious that the numbers come out. Remember: the average buyer is not a DVC DISBoarder.

Instead, I suspect that there are two more important factors.

The first is that CFW is a bit of a niche product. Unless you are a Fort fan, the location is a negative, not a positive---and most prospective buyers are there because of the Parks, not the Fort. The cabins themselves are very nice, but the overall experience is more isolated---resort amenities are not an easy walk away, etc. etc. etc. There is only one style of lodging, compared to the other resorts which all (now) have a full range of options. Those options may not be bookable without an atomic clock, but prospective buyers don't know that.

The second: I suspect the Guides are not pushing CFW. At. All. It seems pretty obvious that CFW will eventually be part of a larger resort complex, and that resort complex is going to have a huge chunk of points that will take a while to sell. I suspect they'd prefer to have RIV off the books before that happens. And, at the current rate, that seems pretty likely. Reflections is slated for 2027 occupancy. RIV is on target to sell out sometime in the second half of 2026.

At the end of the day, timeshare is a product that is sold, not bought. When the Guides get serious about selling the resort, it will sell---even at the current price point, and even with high dues.

All very plausible, but the cabins also have one enormous upside. They can actually sleep a family comfortably for roughly the points cost of a Studio+.

My general philosophy is "150 Direct plus everything else Resale," but if every single DVC property were available at the same price point right now and I was in the market for Direct, FWC would be the clear frontrunner simply for the fact that we're a family of 5 and that points chart is extremely favorable to a family my size. The only thing close to it in terms of square footage and sleeping surfaces would be Grand and Poly Studios, but those obviously both lack kitchens.

Maybe I'm wrong but I get the feeling that most unsophisticated DVC buyers view their purchase as "buying into the DVC program generally, and by extension buying into decades of Disney vacations." I don't think they put a whole lot of thought into their home resort, because we know the guides are selling the whole package. Even when they're talking to you about a Riviera contract, they're going to show you Aulani and Castaway Cay and that money shot of the giraffes outside the Savanna View rooms at Kidani.

So I think a good guide would be able to hook you with a sexy points chart that shows you only need 150 points for a full week in accommodations that sleep 6 with a "full" kitchen, while at the same time talking to you about all opportunities you'll have to stay elsewhere in the system.

 

[eticketplease]

Then the maintenance of the pool would have to be paid by DVD, not with dues. Chances of it happening: zero.

Agreed 100%. Also how would the cash guests access the pool if it was direct/ MMB only.

 

[Cfabar1]

All very plausible, but the cabins also have one enormous upside. They can actually sleep a family comfortably for roughly the points cost of a Studio+.

My general philosophy is "150 Direct plus everything else Resale," but if every single DVC property were available at the same price point right now and I was in the market for Direct, FWC would be the clear frontrunner simply for the fact that we're a family of 5 and that points chart is extremely favorable to a family my size. The only thing close to it in terms of square footage and sleeping surfaces would be Grand and Poly Studios, but those obviously both lack kitchens.

Maybe I'm wrong but I get the feeling that most unsophisticated DVC buyers view their purchase as "buying into the DVC program generally, and by extension buying into decades of Disney vacations." I don't think they put a whole lot of thought into their home resort, because we know the guides are selling the whole package. Even when they're talking to you about a Riviera contract, they're going to show you Aulani and Castaway Cay and that money shot of the giraffes outside the Savanna View rooms at Kidani.

So I think a good guide would be able to hook you with a sexy points chart that shows you only need 150 points for a full week in accommodations that sleep 6 with a "full" kitchen, while at the same time talking to you about all opportunities you'll have to stay elsewhere in the system.

Not to mention an additional 8 years of getting to experience the magic.

I agree they are not seriously trying to sell the cabins right now.

 

[Brian Noble]

So I think a good guide would be able to hook you with a sexy points chart that shows you only need 150 points for a full week in accommodations that sleep 6 with a "full" kitchen, while at the same time talking to you about all opportunities you'll have to stay elsewhere in the system.

I think that's right, which is why I'm in the camp of:

I agree they are not seriously trying to sell the cabins right now.

 

[jolynne28]

All very plausible, but the cabins also have one enormous upside. They can actually sleep a family comfortably for roughly the points cost of a Studio+.

My general philosophy is "150 Direct plus everything else Resale," but if every single DVC property were available at the same price point right now and I was in the market for Direct, FWC would be the clear frontrunner simply for the fact that we're a family of 5 and that points chart is extremely favorable to a family my size. The only thing close to it in terms of square footage and sleeping surfaces would be Grand and Poly Studios, but those obviously both lack kitchens.

Maybe I'm wrong but I get the feeling that most unsophisticated DVC buyers view their purchase as "buying into the DVC program generally, and by extension buying into decades of Disney vacations." I don't think they put a whole lot of thought into their home resort, because we know the guides are selling the whole package. Even when they're talking to you about a Riviera contract, they're going to show you Aulani and Castaway Cay and that money shot of the giraffes outside the Savanna View rooms at Kidani.

So I think a good guide would be able to hook you with a sexy points chart that shows you only need 150 points for a full week in accommodations that sleep 6 with a "full" kitchen, while at the same time talking to you about all opportunities you'll have to stay elsewhere in the system.

The point chart is amazing, but as a fort family of 5 I can tell you that unless you rent or bring your own golf cart, it is an absolute pita to get around the fort. We won't do it without one anymore. For a weeklong stay, $300-$400 more is probably a safe rental estimate. So right now it's pretty obvious that the only people buying the cabins are fort fans, not your typical DVC prospect. If parks are not a priority and you enjoy the relaxed pace and hanging out at your resort, AND you like the outdoors, the cabins/fort are fantastic. But if you prefer ease of park and dining access, and most people on this board seem to, then the fort might be a fun "every once in a while" experience, but not something to purchase.

 

[WinterSolider]

The point chart is amazing, but as a fort family of 5 I can tell you that unless you rent or bring your own golf cart, it is an absolute pita to get around the fort. We won't do it without one anymore. For a weeklong stay, $300-$400 more is probably a safe rental estimate. So right now it's pretty obvious that the only people buying the cabins are fort fans, not your typical DVC prospect. If parks are not a priority and you enjoy the relaxed pace and hanging out at your resort, AND you like the outdoors, the cabins/fort are fantastic. But if you prefer ease of park and dining access, and most people on this board seem to, then the fort might be a fun "every once in a while" experience, but not something to purchase.

But again, you're putting yourself in the mindset of a well-informed member of the online fan/message board community who already has stronger opinions than the average buyer. Some random family currently staying at Port Orleans Riverside getting pitched DVC isn't going to know all of the logistics of the internal bus system at Fort Wilderness. They're also not going to view Fort Wilderness as some remote middle-of-nowhere thing, they're going to view it as a Magic Kingdom resort (albeit not a monorail resort).

As a side point, I disagree that the carts are necessary. I think you need a golf cart *or* a rental car, but not necessarily both. I also think it would be awesome if DVC could figure out some kind of legal structure where you could rent a golf cart using DVC points, but I imagine there are all sorts of legal issues that would prevent that.

 

[jolynne28]

But again, you're putting yourself in the mindset of a well-informed member of the online fan/message board community who already has stronger opinions than the average buyer. Some random family currently staying at Port Orleans Riverside getting pitched DVC isn't going to know all of the logistics of the internal bus system at Fort Wilderness. They're also not going to view Fort Wilderness as some remote middle-of-nowhere thing, they're going to view it as a Magic Kingdom resort (albeit not a monorail resort).

As a side point, I disagree that the carts are necessary. I think you need a golf cart *or* a rental car, but not necessarily both. I also think it would be awesome if DVC could figure out some kind of legal structure where you could rent a golf cart using DVC points, but I imagine there are all sorts of legal issues that would prevent that.

I think anyone considering DVC, informed or not, would recognize that the cabins are a unique situation, not comparable to an actual resort on property. They'd also realize that there's no walkability to any park or mode of disney transportation, which are things that regular Disney guests value.

As for the carts, I was referring to getting around the fort itself. You can't drive your car and park it at the ferry launch or pioneer hall or the bus stop at the front. If you want to go "looping" a golf cart is basically a necessity. Now when we camp we do drive our vehicle to every park with the exception of MK, b/c we're AP and get free parking, it's right outside our campsite (or cabin if staying DVC), and we find it to be much faster than the busses. If you have no interest in exploring the fort, are willing to rent a car and drive to 3 of the 4 parks, and don't mind catching the internal bus loop to get anywhere, including the ferry launch for MK, then sure no golf cart required.

 

[DonMacGregor]

My sister, former DL CM, and current resident of Westchester County, NY, just purchased points at CFW solely because they are pet friendly and she and her husband have two small dogs. They like the idea of a place they can get away from the city (they both work on Broadway) for a week or so and decompress, plus they can use the points if they decide to come out for a quick visit to the OC to see us. They are planning on driving down with a stop in each direction to break up the trip so 6 or 7 nights on property plus the trip down and back will give them a solid vacation. They were just down to Orlando with us but rented a "cabin" at Margaritaville as the CFW cabins are a hard reservation currently. They thoroughly enjoyed the trip. They do leave the dogs with a sitter for shorter trips but want something they can use for longer getaways.

Even though literally every living member of my family has some employment connection, current or past, with TWDC, they have no desire to hit the parks every trip but do like being in "The Bubble". They will have a car, and will use the cabin as a base camp for hitting other places around the area, including the Cape for beach days, etc.

 

[Girlstar30]

Not to mention an additional 8 years of getting to experience the magic.

I agree they are not seriously trying to sell the cabins right now.

No they're not based on my tour

 

[jolynne28]

My sister, former DL CM, and current resident of Westchester County, NY, just purchased points at CFW solely because they are pet friendly and she and her husband have two small dogs. They like the idea of a place they can get away from the city (they both work on Broadway) for a week or so and decompress, plus they can use the points if they decide to come out for a quick visit to the OC to see us. They are planning on driving down with a stop in each direction to break up the trip so 6 or 7 nights on property plus the trip down and back will give them a solid vacation. They were just down to Orlando with us but rented a "cabin" at Margaritaville as the CFW cabins are a hard reservation currently. They thoroughly enjoyed the trip. They do leave the dogs with a sitter for shorter trips but want something they can use for longer getaways.

Even though literally every living member of my family has some employment connection, current or past, with TWDC, they have no desire to hit the parks every trip but do like being in "The Bubble". They will have a car, and will use the cabin as a base camp for hitting other places around the area, including the Cape for beach days, etc.

Honestly I completely forgot about the pet friendly aspect of the cabins, which is probably a huge selling point for some. It's also a turn off for others, and will be interesting to see how the cabins hold up to the wear and tear of kids and pets. I've read a few comments from people that were grossed out by the idea of staying in a pet friendly DVC.

I do agree that FW is a great spot of you're not doing parks much or at all, with the caveat that you're giving up a lot of resort style amenities in exchange for a really cool outdoorsy type of vacation.

 

[DonMacGregor]

Honestly I completely forgot about the pet friendly aspect of the cabins, which is probably a huge selling point for some. It's also a turn off for others, and will be interesting to see how the cabins hold up to the wear and tear of kids and pets. I've read a few comments from people that were grossed out by the idea of staying in a pet friendly DVC.

I do agree that FW is a great spot of you're not doing parks much or at all, with the caveat that you're giving up a lot of resort style amenities in exchange for a really cool outdoorsy type of vacation.

Well, they were pet friendly before, so I suppose the old ones held up pretty well.