Article on ECVs (scooters) and lawsuits @ Disney

[SteveMouse]

The article below was posted to the Sun-Sentinel, a sister paper of the Orlando Sentinel. It talks about people needing them and the increase in traffic.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/os-bz-disney-scooters-lawsuits-20190417-story.html

 

[cmwade77]

Disney does not give proper instruction on the safe operational of their rentals despite what the article claims and that is 90% of where the problems come in that are caused by the ECV drivers. Unfortunately I would say 90% of all issues are those not using mobility devices not paying attention. I mean seriously, I ha e been pulled off to the side of the road, completely stopped and been run into and then they cuss me out saying I need to watch where I am going when I haven't even moved.

Seriously, it really come down to common sense and courtesy on both sides.

 

[Simba's Mom]

Disney does not give proper instruction on the safe operational of their rentals despite what the article claims and that is 90% of where the problems come in that are caused by the ECV drivers. Unfortunately I would say 90% of all issues are those not using mobility devices not paying attention. I mean seriously, I ha e been pulled off to the side of the road, completely stopped and been run into and then they cuss me out saying I need to watch where I am going when I haven't even moved.

Seriously, it really come down to common sense and courtesy on both sides.

Yup, Disney didn't do scooter drivers any favors with the reliance on the MDE app for FP+ information. Now I'm constantly being walked into by people with their nose buried in their cell phones. That was one advantage of the paper FP system-NO CELL PHONE! I've also had someone literally run into me as they're looking back for their family, yelling "Do you see me? Are you keeping up-we'll be late!"

 

[cmwade77]

Yup, Disney didn't do scooter drivers any favors with the reliance on the MDE app for FP+ information. Now I'm constantly being walked into by people with their nose buried in their cell phones. That was one advantage of the paper FP system-NO CELL PHONE! I've also had someone literally run into me as they're looking back for their family, yelling "Do you see me? Are you keeping up-we'll be late!"

There is that issue as well and on the other side, it also makes some (not all or even most) ECV users more distracted because they need to pay attention to their phone as well. It is an issue all the way around and I wonder how the elimination of paper FPs factor into what people seem to perceive as a recent rise in accidents involving mobility devices. Notice I say perceive, because I even question if there are indeed more now than at any time in the past or if we simply hear about the more because of social media. And if you look at it based on number of mobility devices and number of people without mobility devices in the parks do the percentages show an increase or perhaps even a decrease? After all, we know the parks are now more crowded than ever, which also does mean more mobility devices than ever, but percentage wise is that actually an increase of what there has been historically?

So many factors that need to be covered before any changes should have been made to address the alleged rise in issues.

 

[mamabunny]

The article below was posted to the Sun-Sentinel, a sister paper of the Orlando Sentinel. It talks about people needing them and the increase in traffic.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/os-bz-disney-scooters-lawsuits-20190417-story.html

And your point is...?

This article is just preaching to the choir in this particular forum.

Sadly, there was nothing there was "news" to me - and probably not to anyone else here who has to use a personal mobility device on an ongoing basis.

I do appreciate the link - I'm quite certain in the days and weeks to come, I will get that forwarded to me multiple times by friends and family; at least I can tell then I have already read it, and I'm aware of the content.

As far as lawsuits go, there will always be *someone* suing Disney for *something*. Often it's because people aren't paying attention at WDW or they are breaking rules that have been implemented for Guest safety. And some people sue because their own actions caused themselves harm... but it happened at Disney World so Disney should pay...

 

[cmwade77]

And your point is...?

This article is just preaching to the choir in this particular forum.

Sadly, there was nothing there was "news" to me - and probably not to anyone else here who has to use a personal mobility device on an ongoing basis.

I do appreciate the link - I'm quite certain in the days and weeks to come, I will get that forwarded to me multiple times by friends and family; at least I can tell then I have already read it, and I'm aware of the content.

As far as lawsuits go, there will always be *someone* suing Disney for *something*. Often it's because people aren't paying attention at WDW or they are breaking rules that have been implemented for Guest safety. And some people sue because their own actions caused themselves harm... but it happened at Disney World so Disney should pay...

Yes, I actually think the article does a decent job of explaining all sides, although it should have mentioned the sensors and slow ECVs that Disney is implementing on their rentals.

But overall fairly balanced at pointing out there are a small handful of people who use ECVs that cause issues and a small handful of people who don't use them that cause issues. Seriously, I think the vast majority on both sides tend to try to be courteous.

And yes, people sue Disney because they feel they have deep pockets. That isn't to say Disney is blameless, their slowing down their ECVs at Disneyland and adding sensors at Disney World are causing injuries. If the injuries are relatively minor and not permanent, the right thing to do is not to try to sue Disney, but ask for changes to be made to prevent the issues from reoccurring. Unfortunately, as I quickly found out unless you start talking money, Disney will point the finger at Scooterbug saying they did it and Scooterbug points the finger back at Disney saying well they told us to do it. Start asking for money and the finger pointing stops and they start actually listening. With my dispute with them, I really am not after money (other than a refund of the ECV rental because it was so slow it was pretty useless), instead I am going after putting the ECV max speed back to a quick walking pace of 3 MPH (calibrated with a max capacity load), which is still fairly slow for an ECV, so that when going up the steepest hills it should be able to do so at a very modest walking pace of 1.5 MPH so that it can maintain a walking pace and pushing to remove the extrodonarily dangerous sensors from the ones at Disney World. My goal is to get the ECVs back to being safe for all, not to squeeze money out of Disney or Scooterbug, even though I probably could.

 

[daisy2013]

Yup, Disney didn't do scooter drivers any favors with the reliance on the MDE app for FP+ information. Now I'm constantly being walked into by people with their nose buried in their cell phones. That was one advantage of the paper FP system-NO CELL PHONE! I've also had someone literally run into me as they're looking back for their family, yelling "Do you see me? Are you keeping up-we'll be late!"

While yes the paper system may have been better for some disabilities the ability to make fast passes ahead of time is better for others. I remember the “running of toy story” to get fast passes when the park opened. Usually within an hour or two they were gone and you really had no control over what time you received. So if your disability was such that it was difficult to get up in the morning or you had medical treatment or other issues that made you get to the parks later tough luck. If you did get a fast pass but your disability was such that you couldn’t do long days in the park and you got an evening time. Tough luck. Yes the gac was avaialable to some but not all and not everyone knew about it.
Do I think there should be more training or information given to people who rent ECvs - absolutely. My husband was standing in line for a ride and the man behind us ran him over knocking him down because he didn’t know there was a speed dial and he had it turn all the way up. Maybe simply offering a quick five minute tutorial every 15 minutes or so when the park opens will allow people to gain some basic knowledge. As the rush slows down they can offer it to individuals. I’m not saying require it but a simple -hey if you’re new to this do you want a quick over view of how this works? My guess is a fairly large number of people would say yes.

 

[cmwade77]

They are supposed to tell them where the speed controls, forward, reverse, etc. are. But I think at least one run through a short obstacle course of cones should be required and offer to let them do it multiple times until they are comfortable. And this is from someone who does have to rent one at times. Seriously, each of the rental ECVs handles a little differently and I think it would go a long way to solving a lot of issues.

Now something that would be even more useful is have some setup to let people who don't need them try them out through an obstacle course with people suddenly walking inches in front of them and encourage guests without disabilities to try them. Maybe offer a free $10 promotional (so it doesn't have to be redeemed for cash in California and Florida) gift card for taking the time to do so, with a limit of one free gift card per person per day. They could set this up as a new "attraction" in each park and by using the incentive of a gift card, they would encourage people to do it. And for those that are using mobility devices, maybe instead of the mandatory obstacle course like I was suggesting above, offer them the same incentive to bring whatever mobility device they are using through said course.

 

[kaytieeldr]

While yes the paper system may have been better for some disabilities the ability to make fast passes ahead of time is better for others.

Tell that to the people who complain, how am I supposed to know what I want to do 60(+) days from now?"

But I think at least one run through a short obstacle course of cones should be required and offer to let them do it multiple times until they are comfortable.

Where? Where is Disney supposed to find the room in each park? Why should they take CMs away from current assignments or hire more people? Why is it Disney's responsibility to teach giests, well, anything? What's nedt - car dealers having to teach peple hpw to drive?

Now something that would be even more useful is have some setup to let people who don't need them try them out through an obstacle course with people suddenly walking inches in front of them and encourage guests without disabilities to try them.

Again, where?

 

[cmwade77]

Tell that to the people who complain, how am I supposed to know what I want to do 60(+) days from now?"

Where? Where is Disney supposed to find the room in each park? Why should they take CMs away from current assignments or hire more people? Why is it Disney's responsibility to teach giests, well, anything? What's nedt - car dealers having to teach peple hpw to drive?

Again, where?

There is literally tons of empty space in all of the parks.

And I am simply offering a suggestion that would help Disney reduce liability since they seem so concerned about it that they are willing to cause injuries to those who rent ECVs with their insane policies.

 

[OurBigTrip]

There is literally tons of empty space in all of the parks.

And I am simply offering a suggestion that would help Disney reduce liability since they seem so concerned about it that they are willing to cause injuries to those who rent ECVs with their insane policies.

There is not “tons of empty space” anywhere near the rental area at WDW - I can’t speak for DL.

And who has been injured by their “insane policies”?

 

[cmwade77]

There is not “tons of empty space” anywhere near the rental area at WDW - I can’t speak for DL.

And who has been injured by their “insane policies”?

I know a few people personally that have been injured by the sensors at MK and by the ECVS running too slow at Disneyland.

At EPCOT, there is quite a bit of land near the rental area. Same goes for Hollywood Studios. Animal Kingdom is a little tighter, but it could be reconfigured and be done. Magic Kingdom would be hardest.

Seriously, Disney World makes very inefficient use of the land that is there, really you can fit a lot more in thant people think. The obstacle course doesn't have to be long either. It would take up maybe about 300 square feet of land, not very large of a space is necessary. It really doesn't have to be long, just three or four twists and turns through some cones and maybe toss one in front of them as they are going through to simulate someone stepping out in front of them.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I know a few people personally that have been injured by the sensors at MK and by the ECVS running too slow at Disneyland.

Already? In just the few months (or less, at DLR) since the adjustments were made?

Seriously, Disney World makes very inefficient use of the land that is there, really you can fit a lot more in thant people think.

They make use of their land how they choose, and not on a whim. Walt Disney World is over 40 square miles. Only 11 square miles total is devrlopoed.

Simply because there is some space somewhere in a park doesn't mean anything has to be put there.

It would take up maybe about 300 square feet of land

17x17? 30×10? Can't see how this can be considered reasonable.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Perhaps the best thing Disney could do is to stop renting ECVs and wheelchairs altogether. People can bring their own or rent them elsewhere.

 

[redberyl]

I would think requiring a test to rent a scooter would actually open disney up to more lawsuits. grandpa passes his test, but then runs over some ladys foot and breaks it. the lady then says to disney "you certified that he was safe to drive when clearly he wasn't, so pay up." also, not sure how ADA would play into it. someone fails the test so now you deny them their mobility device. not sure thats even legal?

 

[kaytieeldr]

Perhaps the best thing Disney could do is to stop renting ECVs and wheelchairs altogether. People can bring their own or rent them elsewhere.

Not a bad idea. Back in 2005, Universal Hollywood did not rent ECVs, just wherlchairs.

 

[RaySharpton]

I saw something on the internet about monthly
injuries reported to the state, but I can't remember where it came from.

I did see this from the Orlando Sentinel.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/tra...rk-quarterly-report-march-20180416-story.html

And this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_at_Walt_Disney_World

https://orlando-rising.com/the-year-in-central-florida-theme-park-injuries/

I found the article. It was actually from the DIS or WDWINFO

https://www.wdwinfo.com/news-storie...ury-reports-for-1st-quarter-of-2019-released/

 

[mamabunny]

As far as Disney setting up a "training ground" of sorts, there are already *multiple* safe areas to "train" with a rental scooter at WDW - the Resorts.

I have *long* advocated for new users to meet their rental vendors, and then after the vendor leaves, take the time - usually 15 minutes is sufficient - to "practice" at the Resort. Here you can find most of the obstacles/challenges that you will encounter in the Parks, but with more manageable crowd sizes (during the day at most Resort hotels, it's like a ghost town).

So, you can "practice" how your rental feels in the shops, and in the queues at Quick Serves. You can go up and down curb cuts, and there's lots of space to get used to backing up, and turning tight circles. There may be different surfaces - everything from carpet to patterned concrete to asphalt - to see how those will feel, and how the ECV will handle. You can see how fast - and more importantly, how slowly - you can make the scooter go. Most importantly of all, you get your first shot at boarding a bus (or boat, or monorail) at a quieter, less crazy location.

 

[jo-jo]

I wonder what is the percentage of disney scooter vs out side vendors. How many people are renting with no experience at all before they get to a park? I once saw a person using the scooter with the seat back folded down.....so he was sitting on the back of the seat back. I'm guessing he has no idea that part flips up.

My DH uses nothing at home. He is fine for 20-30 mins. At disney , we get a wheelchair. My sister will use a scooter at BJ's all the time or grocery store if it's a bad day. I'm sure at disney, she'd use it 100% of the time.

 

[DisneyOma]

I'm wondering why the people injured by someone else using a scooter are suing Disney and not the scooter user? My daughter witnessed a horrible accident caused by a person on a scooter. She said it was definitely the person on the scooter's fault, as the injured person was sitting watching the parade. To me, that makes the person using the scooter liable, not Disney.