Article on ECVs (scooters) and lawsuits @ Disney

[OurBigTrip]

I would think requiring a test to rent a scooter would actually open disney up to more lawsuits. grandpa passes his test, but then runs over some ladys foot and breaks it. the lady then says to disney "you certified that he was safe to drive when clearly he wasn't, so pay up." also, not sure how ADA would play into it. someone fails the test so now you deny them their mobility device. not sure thats even legal?

I think it would be legal for Disney to refuse to rent to someone if they failed the test, but you’re right, they couldn’t prevent them from getting it elsewhere and bringing it in.

And I agree on the first part of what you wrote - it becomes Disney’s fault if a “tested” driver hurts someone.

Plus, the logistics would be a nightmare.

 

[3DisneyBuggs]

How about requiring cameras on all ecvs used in the parks. That way liability in case of an accident can be proven.

 

[cmwade77]

Simply because there is some space somewhere in a park doesn't mean anything has to be put there.


17x17? 30×10? Can't see how this can be considered reasonable.

I don't mean the undeveloped land is what is poorly used, no protecting local environment is a great use of land.

I mean in the parka land is poorly used, very poorly used with how spread out everything is, the parks could double the number of attractions and not need to close a single thing. Don't believe me? Look at how efficiently Disneyland uses space, when you count the number of attractions at the Disneyland Resort, until very recently, there were more attractions at the two parks at the Disneyland Resort than all four combined at Disney World. Currently, it is dead even due to some having been closed at Disneyland and some having been opened at Disney World.

As for space, seriously and obstacle course for ECVs doesn't have to take up much. Putting a few cones to maneuver, which Disneyland did do at one point in time (why I can confidently say how much space it would take), really wouldn't require much space. Disneyland only stopped doing it because they made it mandatory and ECV renters were getting upset by that fact, but I think if they knew the options to slow it down or add sensors were the alternative that would change.

As for knowing people who have been injured by the sensors and slow ECVs, yes already because I pay attention to people when I hear people talking Disney and heard them talking about being I jured because of it.

 

[cmwade77]

How about requiring cameras on all ecvs used in the parks. That way liability in case of an accident can be proven.

Except that would violate ADA laws because not everyone could afford cameras and you can't discriminate in such a manner. You can't require certain kinds of equipment either, basically the same arguments against the idea that sensors could be required on ECVs would apply. And if you were to say Disney would provide the cameras, there are privacy issues that could apply.

Now something that I wouldn't be surprised to see Disney start doing is using the fact that Magicbands can be tracked to within about 5 ft (and yes, they really can, really look around the parka, there are long range RFID sensors all over the place, they try to hide them, but if you really look closely you can see them) to help determine speed of an ECV I just before an accident.

 

[cmwade77]

I wonder what is the percentage of disney scooter vs out side vendors. How many people are renting with no experience at all before they get to a park? I once saw a person using the scooter with the seat back folded down.....so he was sitting on the back of the seat back. I'm guessing he has no idea that part flips up.

My DH uses nothing at home. He is fine for 20-30 mins. At disney , we get a wheelchair. My sister will use a scooter at BJ's all the time or grocery store if it's a bad day. I'm sure at disney, she'd use it 100% of the time.

Most outside vendors do a pretty good job at providing training on the ECVs. Oddly enough featured providers provide zero training since they drop off with bell services. Bell services may provide minimal training (they didn't the one time we used a featured provider), but not to the level that nonfeatured providers do. Additionally the nonfeatured providers (i.e. Gold Mobility) will adjust the seat, tiller, etc. for the users safety and comfort. This actually is a reason most of them are able to be so much less expensive than the featured providers because it results in safer operation of the ECVs and fewer accidents, which means lower insurance costs for them and less repair costs.

This is one of the reasons I wonder if having a small obstacle course at the parks to train with would be a good idea.

 

[redberyl]

I'm wondering why the people injured by someone else using a scooter are suing Disney and not the scooter user? My daughter witnessed a horrible accident caused by a person on a scooter. She said it was definitely the person on the scooter's fault, as the injured person was sitting watching the parade. To me, that makes the person using the scooter liable, not Disn. I agree with you but disney has deeper pockets than the average park guest. Since the law allows them to sue disney they go where the money is and not with the person who is actually responsible

 

[kaytieeldr]

I don't mean the undeveloped land is what is poorly used, no protecting local environment is a great use of land.

My point wss Disney is fully aware how much land they uhh ave and consciously choosed to devrlop only about 25% of it.

mean in the parka land is poorly used, very poorly used with how spread out everything is, the parks could double the number of attractions and not need to close a single thing.

That's your opinion. Might it surprise you that Disney is well aware how much space there is in each park and designed/maintains each one to not only provide attractions, shows, eyc., but also to be pj6sically emjoyable? If I want an attractoon every yhree feet, I'll visit a carnival.

Don't believe me? Look at how efficiently Disneyland uses space,

Out of necesdity, not choice. Except that parking lot they built an entire new theme park on. And that o5her piece of parking lot for Indiana Jones.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I don't mean the undeveloped land is what is poorly used, no protecting local environment is a great use of land.

I mean in the parka land is poorly used, very poorly used with how spread out everything is, the parks could double the number of attractions and not need to close a single thing. Don't believe me? Look at how efficiently Disneyland uses space, when you count the number of attractions at the Disneyland Resort, until very recently, there were more attractions at the two parks at the Disneyland Resort than all four combined at Disney World. Currently, it is dead even due to some having been closed at Disneyland and some having been opened at Disney World.

In you opinion perhaps, but I prefer it being more spread out. I have no desire to go to a place that is crammed together like a traveling carnival.

 

[cmwade77]

They sure Disney because they see deep pockets, but I agree Disney shouldn't be the responsible party, except if their equipment malfunctions, they didn't provide an accessible path, stuff like that would be their responsibility, but otherwise it would be either the person that walked directly in front of the ECV (probably the most frequent cause of accidebts) or the ECV driver at fault. When two or more ECVs are involved, determining fault may be more complicated and Disney may need to bring security in to help figure out which driver was at fault.

 

[cmwade77]

In you opinion perhaps, but I prefer it being more spread out. I have no desire to go to a place that is crammed together like a traveling carnival.

I much prefer things close together, makes things far more accessible.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I much prefer things close together, makes things far more accessible.

For you perhaps, but for those whose disabilities make it difficult or impossible to be in the midst of tight crowds, forcing the same number of guests into much smaller spaces between attractions would make it less accessible.

Not to mention the law only requires accessible, not easier or “far more accessible”.

 

[cmwade77]

For you perhaps, but for those whose disabilities make it difficult or impossible to be in the midst of tight crowds, forcing the same number of guests into much smaller spaces between attractions would make it less accessible.

Not to mention the law only requires accessible, not easier or “far more accessible”.

I never said the law required it, simply pointing out my preference.

 

[DisneyOma]

I don't mean the undeveloped land is what is poorly used, no protecting local environment is a great use of land.

I mean in the parka land is poorly used, very poorly used with how spread out everything is, the parks could double the number of attractions and not need to close a single thing. Don't believe me? Look at how efficiently Disneyland uses space, when you count the number of attractions at the Disneyland Resort, until very recently, there were more attractions at the two parks at the Disneyland Resort than all four combined at Disney World. Currently, it is dead even due to some having been closed at Disneyland and some having been opened at Disney World.

As for space, seriously and obstacle course for ECVs doesn't have to take up much. Putting a few cones to maneuver, which Disneyland did do at one point in time (why I can confidently say how much space it would take), really wouldn't require much space. Disneyland only stopped doing it because they made it mandatory and ECV renters were getting upset by that fact, but I think if they knew the options to slow it down or add sensors were the alternative that would change.

As for knowing people who have been injured by the sensors and slow ECVs, yes already because I pay attention to people when I hear people talking Disney and heard them talking about being I jured because of it.

How can you be injured by a slow ECV? How can you be injured by the sensors?

Also, Disneyland seems cramped to me, and doe have a bit of the "carnival" vibe to it, compared to WDW. I mean, can you imagine how awful AK would be piled on top of itself? Or imagine it like Universal - where you can hear the roller coasters/screamers from inside Hogsmeade. Totally ruins the atmosphere, IMO. Walt moved his dream to Florida so he could have the room to spread out and develop some amazing theming.

 

[cmwade77]

How can you be injured by a slow ECV? How can you be injured by the sensors?

Also, Disneyland seems cramped to me, and doe have a bit of the "carnival" vibe to it, compared to WDW. I mean, can you imagine how awful AK would be piled on top of itself? Or imagine it like Universal - where you can hear the roller coasters/screamers from inside Hogsmeade. Totally ruins the atmosphere, IMO. Walt moved his dream to Florida so he could have the room to spread out and develop some amazing theming.

Not hard when ECVs come to a sudden stop because of the sensors and causes whiplash.

Slow ECVS have people coming up from behind and pushing them, which can cause pressure on the back. Remember many people using ECVs have preexisting conditions that these actions can aggrevate.

Additionally, when a slow ECV runs over a foot it can cause more damage (and lasting damage) than a fast ECV running over the foot. This comes from someone who has had his foot run over by both, so I do know from personal experience on that one.

 

[DisneyOma]

Not hard when ECVs come to a sudden stop because of the sensors and causes whiplash.

Slow ECVS have people coming up from behind and pushing them, which can cause pressure on the back. Remember many people using ECVs have preexisting conditions that these actions can aggrevate.

Additionally, when a slow ECV runs over a foot it can cause more damage (and lasting damage) than a fast ECV running over the foot. This comes from someone who has had his foot run over by both, so I do know from personal experience on that one.

If the ECV is going fast enough to cause whiplash then it's going too fast, IMO. I don't get the pushing part - could you clarify? Someone is pushing the ECV, or the person sitting in the ECV? And if you are close enough to an ECV to get your foot run over, well... Really, these are your examples of how they are not safe?

 

[kaytieeldr]

Not hard when ECVs come to a sudden stop because of the sensors and causes whiplash.

Actual, medically diagnosed whiplash? at under 3 mph with no external contact?

Slow ECVS have people coming up from behind and pushing them, which can cause pressure on the back.

Just say "no". Or "stop". Or "I don't need help". Or "you wouldn't push on my back if I were standing, why are you pushing the scooter?" I "paddled" a dead ECVA across DCA once using a crutch. Nobody even approached me.

This comes from someone who has had his foot run over by both, so I do know from personal experience on that one.

Why do you keep putting your feet under ECV tires?

But seriously, the calculations don't work. There's no appreciable difference in how long it takes w tire to travel four inches wt 1 mph vs 3 mph.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I don't get the pushing part - could you clarify?

At the risk of chastisement for referencing an existing thread see this poster's thread about slow ECVs at DL.

 

[Lilsia]

For you perhaps, but for those whose disabilities make it difficult or impossible to be in the midst of tight crowds, forcing the same number of guests into much smaller spaces between attractions would make it less accessible.

Not to mention the law only requires accessible, not easier or “far more accessible”.

But don't people rent the ECVs BECAUSE the parks are so large and spread out? Now you are saying to spread them out even more. Easy for someone to say that if they are riding in a scooter all day. I would think that would lead to even more people renting ECVs if they have even more walking to do. What it comes down to is that everyone is responsible for themselves. If you go to WDW and feel like you need to rent an ECV, then you should prepare for that and practice at home. Go to Walmart or any grocery store and ride around in one. Rent one locally if available. Or as someone else said, practice at the resorts for an hour or so. And maybe be aware also of older family members with you. They may not have the reaction time that they once did and some families need to make a decision to push them in a manual chair instead of expecting them to navigate in an ECV that they might not be comfortable with.

 

[kaytieeldr]

If you go to WDW and feel like you need to rent an ECV, then you should prepare for that and practice at home.

That's great as a suggestion, but impossible to force or require.

 

[OurBigTrip]

But don't people rent the ECVs BECAUSE the parks are so large and spread out? Now you are saying to spread them out even more. Easy for someone to say that if they are riding in a scooter all day. I would think that would lead to even more people renting ECVs if they have even more walking to do. What it comes down to is that everyone is responsible for themselves. If you go to WDW and feel like you need to rent an ECV, then you should prepare for that and practice at home. Go to Walmart or any grocery store and ride around in one. Rent one locally if available. Or as someone else said, practice at the resorts for an hour or so. And maybe be aware also of older family members with you. They may not have the reaction time that they once did and some families need to make a decision to push them in a manual chair instead of expecting them to navigate in an ECV that they might not be comfortable with.

I said nothing about making the parks more spread out. I said that I prefer WDW to DL because I wouldn’t enjoy it nearly as much if it were all crammed together.