Article: Is Disney Dissing the Disabled?

[sbelyo]

Unlimited front of the line access and unlimited ride looping = run of the parks.

Do you know this from experience?

 

[sbelyo]

From what school did you receive your medical degree?

If that's your opinion, then that's your opinion. But it's uninformed and you've basically said you're unwilling to become better educated. That's the part I don't understand, the desire to not learn more about the world and the people around you.

agreed

 

[Vidia2]

From what school did you receive your medical degree?

If that's your opinion, then that's your opinion. But it's uninformed and you've basically said you're unwilling to become better educated. That's the part I don't understand, the desire to not learn more about the world and the people around you.

Sometimes an idea cannot be changed even with reason or common sense.

 

[camandjacksmom]

Do you know this from experience?

I don't think they are saying they do. It's only logical. If you never wait in a line and you ride it as many times and you want it's like having free run of the park. Unless you would call it something else.

 

[sbelyo]

I've been a teacher in Newtown, CT for 18 years, and also have two children with autism. One of the things I frequently say to my students is that fair doesn't mean everyone gets the same thing, fair means everyone gets what they need. Imagine what "equal" would look like in a typical classroom...the kids above grade level would be bored because they already mastered the curriculum, the at-risk children struggle because they don't have the tools to be successful, and the few "typical" children get what they need. This "equal" treatment would be a huge disservice to the bulk of the children. Fair would mean differentiating instruction so that each and every child gets what they need at their level. This may not be that different. In my case, fair would be waiting in the regular queue with my high-functioning daughter for Enchanted Tales with Belle, while my more affected son gets his sensory needs met using the GAC to ride Astro Orbiter. He wants to ride it, because it does fulfill a need...some sensory experience I can't quite understand that is satisfied both by the vertical elevator ride and the spinning cars. We won't ride it repeatedly, but we will revisit it over and over over the week. And we won't be gloating...we will be exhaling. With relief. With gratitude. Someone understands. Maybe fair does mean everyone gets what they need. I truly want that for every child,

I had teachers when I was a kid just like you. I am glad your kids have you. I am a successful person supporting a family of four because of teachers just like you

 

[sbelyo]

I don't think they are saying they do. It's only logical. If you never wait in a line and you ride it as many times and you want it's like having free run of the park. Unless you would call it something else.

Forgive me, I've always waited in a line that was accessible to "someone with a physical disability" trust me it aint run of the park

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Unlimited front of the line access and unlimited ride looping = run of the parks.

I have NEVER seen anyone using the guest pass system look like they are running from ride to ride and living it up. (And I been "around" the wdworld a few times) Even the lifestyle induced obesity ( ok...in the interests of being fair I'll acknowledge that is a significant source of abuse of the "old" system) patrons appear to be if not " struggling"...them dealing with " significant
Challenges" ever second of every day. And most cases that is out of their control. Doesn't look like Carnivale of Mardi Gras at the handicap entrance to the rides.

I would bet I'm much happier waiting in the stand by line at splash mountain at every given moment...

So I just don't see the correlation to this argument.

Is this all tainted by that "rich people in ny fake disabilities in WDW" article in that rag known as the NY Post last spring? Is that the problem?
If so...stupid is as stupid reads.

I don't get the "last stand" mentality by some
Here who admittedly have no real dog in this fight... Other than "my money money money" buys the "tickets tickets tickets"

Ironically just like me... Without the hate syrup on top.

 

[camandjacksmom]

Forgive me, I've always waited in a line that was accessible to "someone with a physical disability" trust me it aint run of the park

Obviously you had to wait! But if you were the person from earlier that commented that they had already figured out a way to beat the new system by using old room keys to get multiple fast passes to allow her daughter to ride the ride multiple rides over and over each weekend then you would have to agree that would be a way to get unlimited access. Therefore the comment run of the park fits for that situation.

 

[xipotec]

I think a more interesting and relative question is what actually qualifies someone for a GAC?

The psychiatric community is in a state of flux because what defines autism has changed so much over the years. Recently there was a paper suggesting 25% of children were autistic.

Same goes for the obese ECV rider. Disabled or just morbidly obese? Which came first? does it matter?

How bad should the autism be to qualify for a GAC? I have enocholiphobia, should I get a GAC because of that???

Just playing devils advocate here....

 

[sbelyo]

Obviously you had to wait! But if you were the person from earlier that commented that they had already figured out a way to beat the new system by using old room keys to get multiple fast passes to allow her daughter to ride the ride multiple rides over and over each weekend then you would have to agree that would be a way to get unlimited access. Therefore the comment run of the park fits for that situation.

so old room keys = a GAC.... ???? This thread is for people that acknowledge the use and abuse of a GAC not use using old room keys. THAT is abusing the system

 

[camandjacksmom]

so old room keys = a GAC.... ???? This thread is for people that acknowledge the use and abuse of a GAC not use using old room keys. THAT is abusing the system

You are obviously being sarcastic. No if you go back and read page 17. A poster talks about using her new DAS pass, FP+ and old room keys to get her daughter to be able to ride the rides she wants at DHS essentially letting her loop the rides. It's okay you can admit someone with an autistic child cheats using a GAC Or DAS. Shocking I know someone with a disability can cheat the system also.

 

[sbelyo]

You are obviously being sarcastic. No if you go back and read page 17. A poster talks about using her new DAS pass, FP+ and old room keys to get her daughter to be able to ride the rides she wants at DHS essentially letting her loop the rides. It's okay you can admit someone with an autistic child cheats using a GAC Or DAS. Shocking I know someone with a disability can cheat the system also.

no, I'm not being sarcastic, I am agreeing with you that they are cheating the system, but I disagree with your example in relation to my original post that you quoted. I would call that CHEATING THE SYSTEM like I already said

 

[nonnasally]

I had teachers when I was a kid just like you. I am glad your kids have you. I am a successful person supporting a family of four because of teachers just like you

Couldn't have said it better and what a lovely comment in the midst of all this turmoil. As a seasoned educator I thank you on behalf of all those who understand the word "fair"!

 

[huhwhat]

See, this is the kind of thing that drives me and others nuts. This is his lot in life, the cards he was dealt with his son, and while it completely sucks, why would he think that WDW or any place for that matter should look at his situation and say, "oh well, he spends the same amount of money on a ticket but can't stay long so we should just let him on all of the rides first with no wait."??? My feet KILL me by the end of the day to where I feel this side of crippled trying to walk, and I too would LOVE for someone to feel sorry for me but I'm not entitled to that. Disney is a luxury, and if you can't manage it, you just can't manage it. None of us get to do absolutely everything that the parks offer, due to many reasons. Be it, I only have enough money to go for one day, or the lines were too long so I had to pick and chose which things were must do's. Should WDW feel obligated to make sure that I get to bypass the lines because I'm too poor to afford more days at the parks? I'm sorry that these children are afflicted with these things, but a Disney trip is NOT a God given right but everyone has this sense of entitlement these days of "me and my kid first".

You are very ignorant, it's not about anyone's sore feet. No one with a child with ASD feels any sense of entitlement. What I do feel is the piercing stares of ignorant people like you when the sensory overload hit my son and he starts breaking down. I have heard other "parents" refer to him as a brat. calls to "get control" of my son....the GAC limited our exposure to people like you....

 

[Canajan]

I've been a teacher in Newtown, CT for 18 years, and also have two children with autism. One of the things I frequently say to my students is that fair doesn't mean everyone gets the same thing, fair means everyone gets what they need. Imagine what "equal" would look like in a typical classroom...the kids above grade level would be bored because they already mastered the curriculum, the at-risk children struggle because they don't have the tools to be successful, and the few "typical" children get what they need. This "equal" treatment would be a huge disservice to the bulk of the children. Fair would mean differentiating instruction so that each and every child gets what they need at their level. This may not be that different. In my case, fair would be waiting in the regular queue with my high-functioning daughter for Enchanted Tales with Belle, while my more affected son gets his sensory needs met using the GAC to ride Astro Orbiter. He wants to ride it, because it does fulfill a need...some sensory experience I can't quite understand that is satisfied both by the vertical elevator ride and the spinning cars. We won't ride it repeatedly, but we will revisit it over and over over the week. And we won't be gloating...we will be exhaling. With relief. With gratitude. Someone understands. Maybe fair does mean everyone gets what they need. I truly want that for every child,

I want to thank you very sincerely for this thoughtful comment that, to my mind, illustrates exactly why a full range of accommodations is so necessary and only fair.

I have read some of the other comments with horror. We should all be angry at the cheaters, not at all families much like any others that are struggling to live with disability. No doubt some cheaters are people with and without disabilities. After all, disability is an equal-opportunity imposition. **But equating disability with cheating is outlandish and bigoted.**

As a parent of a child with a physical disability, I scoured the Disboards for years trying to figure out if a trip to Disney World could even work for our little one. Honestly, if I had read anything like the randomly-venomous and self-righteously ignorant comments I've seen directed at people with disabilities, we would have been too fearful to risk the long and expensive trip.

For families with disabled loved ones who are now reading this frightening discussion to try to assess the feasibility of a WDW trip, I want to reassure you that WDW has been completely wonderful for us on repeated trips. My daughter did receive the GAC, and we used it once or twice a day to enter fastpass queues (starting at the back of the lines, of course). (In those queues, we never saw more than one other family using a GAC.) The GAC was a true blessing, and I'm hopeful that the DAS will work about as well for us.

Disney staff were simply wonderful. But what truly surprised us was how considerate and generous other guests were as well. Countless times, other guests cheerfully made space for us on a boat or on the monorail. Without being asked, people moved obstacles out of the way of my child's wheelchair. Guests smiled at her, admired her pin collection, made small talk about rides and favourite characters, and generally made our holiday even better. These kind gestures meant so much to us.

The one blessing of these heated GAC/DAS discussions is seeing people of all disabilities bravely coming forward to describe what it is like to live with their own challenges. Too often, these complex issues are endured in complete isolation. Even special ed teachers, healthcare providers, and close family and friends may have very little understanding of what it is exactly like to live with the disabilities of people they know.

There is suddenly a huge worldwide discussion of living with disability and searching for workable accommodations and fairness! What an amazing opportunity for understanding and improving. Let's not squander these chances with baseless bigoted accusations and willful irrationality.

 

[Kronk N Tink]

So this has been quite the interesting (and lively) discussion.

Don't post often so heres a little background:

While not disabled myself I do have inner ear issues which cause demophobia, I can panic in a crowd and have a few times at Disney.

I have never asked for a GAC for this and have been able to tough it out by focusing on my family, although in a few instances my wife has had to ask I stop squeezing her hand or shoulder too hard. We also did not take advantage of GAC the year she was laid up with knee issues and had to be pushed around the park in a wheelchair (but the looks on several cast members faces were quite funny when they offered us access anyways and we declined to go stand in line) its just the way we are, we kinda feel that if its at all possible to not let these things effect how we tour its good for the karma and maybe it'll make it easier in the long haul.

That being said I know there are many for whom that is not an option. I have a niece with ASD a mother with mobility issues and a friend who is legally blind who all need the assistance. We have toured with them in the past and in my experience the GAC is a definate advantage to touring. Each families experience will differ with individual needs and capabilities of course but I definately saw a lot more touring with them than I would have otherwise.

Personally I see the new system as a step up that needs a tweak here and there. It definately seems fair in terms of equal access, and while I'm sure it wont eliminate abuse entirely it should cut it back. At the same time I see why many currently using the GAC would be upset, it does seem like while the ideas behind the system are sound the process may be a little more inconvienient than it needs to be. There is also the issue of dealing with the change period itself which I understand can be very tricky when dealing with kids who likely don't understand why they now have to wait. I've never had a personal experience where I've been truly inconvienieced by repeat riders or numerous GAC users lengthening my wait but I can certainly see where some situations would definately try my patience (the story about 7 times in a row on Dumbo comes to mind). But in general I've had no issues with letting a few families go ahead of us.

Now that I've caught you up on me heres the actual question

Many have been wondering where the compromise is on this issue and I have an idea, I'm sure it would not be the easiest thing to implement but it may be the best way to keep things fair and easier for the effected parties.

What if instead of having to go to the attraction for your wait time minus 15 minutes, you got a return time of the full wait time when you entered your previous attraction. To clarify, you're entering Dumbo at 10am and you would tell the CM at that time (before entering the fp queue) you plan to head to Peter Pan next. The CM looks at a screen and sees Peter Pan currently has a 1/2 hour wait and stamps your passport for 10:30. Your wait is reduced by whatever amount of time it takes you to get through the fp queue and experience the attraction and you no longer have to crisscross back and forth. If you're done Dumbo in 5 minutes you simply take your time getting to Peter Pan.

Does anyone else think this could be the missing aspect of thus new policy to make it all work?

I'll leave it with a quote from Walt himself I think we should all remember in this thread "Happiness is a state of mind. It's just according to the way you look at things."

Mind you no idea if he actually said it I found it on Pinterest, good advice regardless.

 

[aubriee]

No one is attacking anyone, just stating opinions...and here's mine...and all comments exclude any child at WDW with Make a Wish or similar organization.

No one needs front of the line access, not even guests with cognitive disabilities. They can wait in a comfortable place and show up when it's their turn.

No one needs to ride the same ride multiple times without waiting. It's completely unfair to the guests that paid the same (or more) than the family that is demanding that all six of them be able to ride an attraction four or five times with no wait.

No guest should feel that they have the right to continuously negatively impact the experience of other guests just because their child was born with different abilities.

Having a rough life 51 weeks out of the year has nothing to do with what you should expect at WDW - the two are unrelated.

Special needs doesn't mean special in the sense that your needs trump everyone else's. Your kids are no more special than my kids, and they don't deserve an experience that is any better than what my kids should expect.

I agree! Why should someone's disabled child get to ride the same ride six or seven times in a row (because if he's not allowed to he'll throw a temper tantrum) when our so called normal kids have to wait 90 minutes to ride the same ride once. That is not equal access! This is from a grandmother with seven grandkids, three of whom are disabled. One has severe ADHD, one has autism, and one has Zellweger's syndrome--blind, deaf, unable to walk, severely mentally handicapped, severe liver damage, must avoid the sun, etc. Why should those three get front of the line pass and get to ride the same favorite ride over and over, while their cousins and older brother have to stand in an hour long wait to ride the same ride just once? (If they are there with their older brother then he would get front of the line access and get to repeat favorite rides too, but if they're not, he has to suddenly wait in line?) I assure you their two and five year old cousins would not understand that either and shouldn't have to. Their wait should not be longer, just so some other child can cut to the front of the line six or seven times in a row in front of them.

 

[OurBigTrip]

You are very ignorant, it's not about anyone's sore feet. No one with a child with ASD feels any sense of entitlement. What I do feel is the piercing stares of ignorant people like you when the sensory overload hit my son and he starts breaking down. I have heard other "parents" refer to him as a brat. calls to "get control" of my son....the GAC limited our exposure to people like you....

Plenty of people with a an autistic child feel a sense of entitlement, at least when it comes to WDW or DL. The outrage expressed when word of the change from GAC to DAS is proof of that.

 

[OurBigTrip]

This type of perseverative behavior is by definition a part of the disability of autism. Not a want. No one wants this, believe me. While my family doesn't have to deal with this as a ride issue, we deal with it day in and day out with other issues. The same obsessions go on for months, sometimes years.

If Disney didn't see this as being a part of the disability, they would not allow for it.

Really, who would want to ride these rides over and over unless they had an obsession that they couldn't control.

You're confusing something that someone does for enjoyment with something that someone does because if they didn't it would cause extreme distress because of a disability.

Is the child physically harmed if they not permitted to ride the ride or not? If not, then it isn't a need. I have no doubt that the disorder might make a child obsess about a ride, but if they aren't going to be physically harmed by being told no, then it isn't a need.

 

[aubriee]

Cheaters, aka non-disabled using someone else's GAC was not the biggest problem. The biggest problem is that so many people were requesting, and getting, a GAC.

Had Disney stuck with the original intent of the DAS, i.e., everyone waits, but not necessarily in line, the value of the DAS would have dropped considerably, and fewer people would have gotten them.

By now apparently capitulating and once again simply taking the word of someone that their child can't wait at all and "needs" (translation: wants) to ride the same ride multiple times, the DAS will be just as much of a mess as the GAC.

I agree! If there are long waits, no one should get to ride the same ride over and over. That's just wrong!