Article: Is Disney Dissing the Disabled?

[OurBigTrip]

So this has been quite the interesting (and lively) discussion.

Don't post often so heres a little background:

While not disabled myself I do have inner ear issues which cause demophobia, I can panic in a crowd and have a few times at Disney.

I have never asked for a GAC for this and have been able to tough it out by focusing on my family, although in a few instances my wife has had to ask I stop squeezing her hand or shoulder too hard. We also did not take advantage of GAC the year she was laid up with knee issues and had to be pushed around the park in a wheelchair (but the looks on several cast members faces were quite funny when they offered us access anyways and we declined to go stand in line) its just the way we are, we kinda feel that if its at all possible to not let these things effect how we tour its good for the karma and maybe it'll make it easier in the long haul.

That being said I know there are many for whom that is not an option. I have a niece with ASD a mother with mobility issues and a friend who is legally blind who all need the assistance. We have toured with them in the past and in my experience the GAC is a definate advantage to touring. Each families experience will differ with individual needs and capabilities of course but I definately saw a lot more touring with them than I would have otherwise.

Personally I see the new system as a step up that needs a tweak here and there. It definately seems fair in terms of equal access, and while I'm sure it wont eliminate abuse entirely it should cut it back. At the same time I see why many currently using the GAC would be upset, it does seem like while the ideas behind the system are sound the process may be a little more inconvienient than it needs to be. There is also the issue of dealing with the change period itself which I understand can be very tricky when dealing with kids who likely don't understand why they now have to wait. I've never had a personal experience where I've been truly inconvienieced by repeat riders or numerous GAC users lengthening my wait but I can certainly see where some situations would definately try my patience (the story about 7 times in a row on Dumbo comes to mind). But in general I've had no issues with letting a few families go ahead of us.

Now that I've caught you up on me heres the actual question

Many have been wondering where the compromise is on this issue and I have an idea, I'm sure it would not be the easiest thing to implement but it may be the best way to keep things fair and easier for the effected parties.

What if instead of having to go to the attraction for your wait time minus 15 minutes, you got a return time of the full wait time when you entered your previous attraction. To clarify, you're entering Dumbo at 10am and you would tell the CM at that time (before entering the fp queue) you plan to head to Peter Pan next. The CM looks at a screen and sees Peter Pan currently has a 1/2 hour wait and stamps your passport for 10:30. Your wait is reduced by whatever amount of time it takes you to get through the fp queue and experience the attraction and you no longer have to crisscross back and forth. If you're done Dumbo in 5 minutes you simply take your time getting to Peter Pan.

Does anyone else think this could be the missing aspect of thus new policy to make it all work?

I'll leave it with a quote from Walt himself I think we should all remember in this thread "Happiness is a state of mind. It's just according to the way you look at things."

Mind you no idea if he actually said it I found it on Pinterest, good advice regardless.

I think something like this could absolutely work, but when only one side is actually interested in compromising, it most likely wouldn't even be attempted.

 

[OurBigTrip]

And to the people that claim that the disabled didn't abuse the GAC or wouldn't abuse the DAS:

Leo's visit was a huge success, and Disneyland turned out to his Land of Yes. He got to do exactly what he wanted all day long, directing the action according to his interests and impulses -- an unprecedented freedom for a boy with a heavily structured life. He was also never bored, which can be an issue for people with communication challenges. Because of a Guest Assistance [Card] the Mouse thoughtfully provides for people whose behaviors make it difficult to wait in lines, Leo could get right back on any ride he liked, as many times as he wanted.

Emphasis mine for the "but they need to ride multiple times" and the "this isn't a run of the park" crowds.

 

[Granny square]

I think something like this could absolutely work, but when only one side is actually interested in compromising, it most likely wouldn't even be attempted.

Agree. If you only listen to the hardcore.

My hope that comes from dealing with people in general is that most people want the scammers stopped an want what is fair. It seems a small radical group that want it all their way.

 

[Schmeck]

I have absolutely no issue with her looping those rides. She loops 3 rides out of all 4 parks. She gets to go to the parks for only a couple hours and normally gets on 3 rides before we leave and outside her obsessed ones, they are the rides we have FP+ for.

I won't even bother explaining to you how the obsessive behavior works. You don't get it and that doesn't bother me but I'm won't waste my time either.

I get how the obsessive behavior works, and you are feeding into it, probably undoing months, if not a full year's, worth of behavioral training.

For those who state that their child cannot possibly wait for an attraction, have you followed the IEP that is used for your child at school? That IEP should be followed at home as well as in school, or else the child learns that certain behavior is only expected away from the parent. It happens all the time in the school I work at - the parent fights to have all kinds of ABA, specialist training in the school, yet doesn't follow through at home. It takes twice as long to make progress, maybe even longer this way.

 

[Spoot]

Many have been wondering where the compromise is on this issue and I have an idea, I'm sure it would not be the easiest thing to implement but it may be the best way to keep things fair and easier for the effected parties.

What if instead of having to go to the attraction for your wait time minus 15 minutes, you got a return time of the full wait time when you entered your previous attraction. To clarify, you're entering Dumbo at 10am and you would tell the CM at that time (before entering the fp queue) you plan to head to Peter Pan next. The CM looks at a screen and sees Peter Pan currently has a 1/2 hour wait and stamps your passport for 10:30. Your wait is reduced by whatever amount of time it takes you to get through the fp queue and experience the attraction and you no longer have to crisscross back and forth. If you're done Dumbo in 5 minutes you simply take your time getting to Peter Pan.

Does anyone else think this could be the missing aspect of thus new policy to make it all work?

I actually like the idea and think it could work (but then, I think the new system will work for my family). It does remove some of the crisscrossing (though I'm still hoping that the kiosks will be well placed and help with that).

However, the same argument that people are making about the new system will still be there. What if the Peter Pan return time was 90 minutes and you were done Dumbo in 5 minutes? That would still mean an 85 minute wait before they could get to Peter Pan and people are saying that their child cannot possibly wait 85 minutes. The people (like those on this thread) that are saying that their child needs to ride whatever ride they want right when they want to ride it, are still not going to be served by your idea.

 

[Schmeck]

Now you people are bullies. You are poking and kicking and getting people to react and fight back then you stand together in your little gang and smirk and high five each other. You are disgusting. How dare you beat up on people trying to cope on a daily basis.

I think the "even Helen KELLER" COMMENT DID IT FOR ME. AND THE unicorn Snowflake. Thread is reported and I can only hope that my fellow parents of kids with Autism can just get out and leave the bullies to their own pathetic shallow and close-minded existence.

I think the pot is calling the kettle black. I reported you too. Everyone is trying to cope on a daily basis. One group of people does not have the trophy for 'most disabled', but that's how many of the parents with autistic children come off. To me, it comes of as a guilty conscience, but that's just my opinion.

 

[OneLittleSpark1]

I have read through the almost 4 pages since I was last here, and I just don't have the time this moment to respond to all the posts I want, including ones that were specifically addressed to me.

Luckily, I don't have to. Many people here have written almost what I would have, I can't remember all their names but OurBigTrip, Aubriee, Schmeck, and Karice2...are just a few. If you want to know what I would have said...just read their posts. I agree with them 100%.

 

[Vidia2]

I get how the obsessive behavior works, and you are feeding into it, probably undoing months, if not a full year's, worth of behavioral training.

For those who state that their child cannot possibly wait for an attraction, have you followed the IEP that is used for your child at school? That IEP should be followed at home as well as in school, or else the child learns that certain behavior is only expected away from the parent. It happens all the time in the school I work at - the parent fights to have all kinds of ABA, specialist training in the school, yet doesn't follow through at home. It takes twice as long to make progress, maybe even longer this way.

Another "expert" is on the case.

If you knew anything about autism (in reality) then you would know that parents work hard, as do teachers (and Disney by the way) to create environments in which children with autism can be successful. These kids wait in lines all the time, including the 45 fastpass line for Toy Story Mania.

The people who say these kinds of things are again repeating their go-to defense which is that in your mind it's all caused by bad parenting.

Luckily people educated in the field of autism almost never share your opinion. The ones who do have usually failed miserably and are frustrated because it's damaging their hero complex identity when they've failed to "cure" a child or even help any significantly. More often it's a TA or someone or else someone who hasn't actually done anything, like a parent volunteer. They use their positions to get sympathy from their friends and family, i.e. "Oh, I don't know how you do that all day. You really are a true hero." Blah, blah, ignorance.

The people on this board who are complaining the loudest are people who troll these kinds of threads crying that they should be as "special" as the disabled. This attitude exposes you as the people who've been getting disabled passes fraudulently and are now worried that you won't be able to.

You are the ones who have ruined the system. YOU are the ones who feel entitled.

You should take your concerns up with Disney because while you feel better spouting your ignorance here, it's not going to change the fact that this system is being rolled out tomorrow and it will never meet your uneducated criteria for how people with disabilities should experience their vacations.

If you did half the planning for your trips that we do, you might actually enjoy your vacations instead of complaining about disabled children.

I don't see anyone complaining about the old system or the new system except for the people who have probably been the abusers all along.

People in the beginning were complaining because the change is difficult to accept at first. We were able to get past this and adapt, it's the obvious fraudulent abusers who will never be happy because they see themselves as being victims of people with disabilities.

Unbelievable!

 

[OneLittleSpark1]

Another "expert" is on the case.

If you knew anything about autism (in reality) then you would know that parents work hard, as do teachers (and Disney by the way) to create environments in which children with autism can be successful. These kids wait in lines all the time, including the 45 fastpass line for Toy Story Mania.

The people who say these kinds of things are again repeating their go-to defense which is that in your mind it's all caused by bad parenting.

Luckily people educated in the field of autism almost never share your opinion. The ones who do have usually failed miserably and are frustrated because it's damaging their hero complex identity when they've failed to "cure" a child or even help any significantly. More often it's a TA or someone or else someone who hasn't actually done anything, like a parent volunteer. They use their positions to get sympathy from their friends and family, i.e. "Oh, I don't know how you do that all day. You really are a true hero." Blah, blah, ignorance.

The people on this board who are complaining the loudest are people who troll these kinds of threads crying that they should be as "special" as the disabled. This attitude exposes you as the people who've been getting disabled passes fraudulently and are now worried that you won't be able to.

You are the ones who have ruined the system. YOU are the ones who feel entitled.

You should take your concerns up with Disney because while you feel better spouting your ignorance here, it's not going to change the fact that this system is being rolled out tomorrow and it will never meet your uneducated criteria for how people with disabilities should experience their vacations.

If you did half the planning for your trips that we do, you might actually enjoy your vacations instead of complaining about disabled children.

I don't see anyone complaining about the old system or the new system except for the people who have probably been the abusers all along.

People in the beginning were complaining because the change is difficult to accept at first. We were able to get past this and adapt, it's the obvious fraudulent abusers who will never be happy because they see themselves as being victims of people with disabilities.

Unbelievable!

Geez Louise! Boy you sure got me, Sherlock Holmes.

It's true, it's true, I have been getting and abusing a GAC this whole time, and just troll these boards spouting my unfairness, and my supposed "bullying" of disabled people...just to cover my own butt, that way no one knows the truth that I myself am a GAC abuser. What a great cover I created, such a conspiracy! It's like the Disney Watergate!

Please...give me a break. I think the answers some people come up with are ludicrous. First, we must all be deadbeat dads of disabled kids and now, we must be GAC abusers ourselves. Interesting theories on why a person might not agree that a disabled person should be able to ride NOW and 5 times in a row, that it's a want not a need. Yep, you got it figured out. That must be what our issue is. Good one.

 

[Spoot]

Many have been wondering where the compromise is on this issue and I have an idea, I'm sure it would not be the easiest thing to implement but it may be the best way to keep things fair and easier for the effected parties.

What if instead of having to go to the attraction for your wait time minus 15 minutes, you got a return time of the full wait time when you entered your previous attraction. To clarify, you're entering Dumbo at 10am and you would tell the CM at that time (before entering the fp queue) you plan to head to Peter Pan next. The CM looks at a screen and sees Peter Pan currently has a 1/2 hour wait and stamps your passport for 10:30. Your wait is reduced by whatever amount of time it takes you to get through the fp queue and experience the attraction and you no longer have to crisscross back and forth. If you're done Dumbo in 5 minutes you simply take your time getting to Peter Pan.

Does anyone else think this could be the missing aspect of thus new policy to make it all work?

What about this instead?

When you enter the line, your card is stamped with the time of the standby line for that ride. So, for example, you enter the line at 10am and the standby wait time is 60 minutes, your card is stamp for 11am. You enter the line (FP or whatever the alternate entrance is) right away and ride; however, you cannot use the alternate entrance again (that ride or another ride) until 11am.

That way, if the alternate entrance takes longer than expected or if you need to wait for an accessible vehicle, that extra wait time is basically subtracted from the amount of time you need to wait until you can get another ride.

Like your plan, this would also reduce backtracking and it would mean one didn't have to choose a second ride before riding the first ride.

Just a thought.

 

[Vidia2]

Geez Louise! Boy you sure got me, Sherlock Holmes.

It's true, it's true, I have been getting and abusing a GAC this whole time, and just troll these boards spouting my unfairness, and my supposed "bullying" of disabled people...just to cover my own butt, that way no one knows the truth that I myself am a GAC abuser. What a great cover I created, such a conspiracy! It's like the Disney Watergate!

Please...give me a break. I think the answers some people come up with are ludicrous. First, we must all be deadbeat dads of disabled kids and now, we must be GAC abusers ourselves. Interesting theories on why a person might not agree that a disabled person should be able to ride NOW and 5 times in a row, that it's a want not a need. Yep, you got it figured out. That must be what our issue is. Good one.

I'm looking forward to hearing the stories of how people with disabilities are being given appropriate accommodations, with the new DAS, at DL and WDW, and how the new system is successfully deterring people who abuse the system.

I hope that people like you can learn to be accepting of people who look and behave differently than yourself, or not up to your standards.

 

[MidwayState]

No, I posted early on that when we had to leave the parks, it was nice to have the GAC because when we returned we could go to the FP line which, by the way, is not instant access.
FOTL is at Universal and yes, we stay onsite there to get that perk.

I hate when people say this. YES it is fotl access. As front of the line as you can possibly get. Everyone knows that or has even BEEN to WDW with someone that used a GAC and you know exactly what we mean when we say fotl. Denying that that is what it is, is simply something all GAC users have always done to try and deter others from getting one and causing their wait to be longer....which is what happened. It was like the dirty little secret or something. Nobody wanted word to get out like it has so everyone always tries to make it sound like it's not as great as it is. It's funny to me that everyone keeps trying to deny the fotl part but then again they are throwing a tantrum because there is no way little Johnny can wait in a line. Give me a break. hmmmm...now which is it?

 

[Kronk N Tink]

What about this instead?

When you enter the line, your card is stamped with the time of the standby line for that ride. So, for example, you enter the line at 10am and the standby wait time is 60 minutes, your card is stamp for 11am. You enter the line (FP or whatever the alternate entrance is) right away and ride; however, you cannot use the alternate entrance again (that ride or another ride) until 11am.

That way, if the alternate entrance takes longer than expected or if you need to wait for an accessible vehicle, that extra wait time is basically subtracted from the amount of time you need to wait until you can get another ride.

Like your plan, this would also reduce backtracking and it would mean one didn't have to choose a second ride before riding the first ride.

Just a thought.

I like this as well. It would have the added benefit of not having to worry as much about a return time as well.

Like I said before I think the real issues with this new system aren't so much conceptual as they are procedural. I think the majority of people would be ok with waiting if it weren't for some of the other inconvieniences the system has inherently in its details (most if not all of the people in this thread included). Unfortunately discussions of this nature are so easily taken personally when no personal slight is intended because of the nature of the issue.

 

[MidwayState]

Finally, I again want to hear some concrete examples of how other people's trips have been negatively affected by people using the GAC. How waiting 30seconds or less for my son is ruining your trip. Heck, just ONE example would be great. Because so far all I see is a bunch of bitter people saying "If I can't get that "benefit" then neither should anyone else! Neener, neener, neener!" Whatever someone with such little sympathy for others thinks about me and my posts, I could not possibly care less.

No THIS this is ignorant. Thinking that Disney has just decided to outrage millions of people and change everything because someone is waiting 30 seconds. What part of "the standby lines are becoming longer than the fastpass lines due to abuse" have you missed? When GAC was being used properly THEN the wait may have amounted to 30 seconds, but because everyone in the free world wants to claim that their child with throw a fit if they have to wait in line has found out about the GAC and no one is allowed to ask them what they need it for, that 30 second wait has turned into 20 and 30 MINUTES. How much more concrete evidence do you need? The FACT that Disney is having to adjust the system to fix a problem seems like proof enough to me. Here is your evidence. Everyone on this board has waited in a standby line that was maybe one hour long that should have been 30 minutes long on a good day because the fastpass/GAC line was outrageously long and WDW had to accommodate them first.

 

[crisi]

If a kid loves a ride so much that they want to ride it over and over and over and are distressed when they can't do it, they should be tested for autism, especially if they also have severe communications/language delays and other cognitive issues.

Or they have OCD, or ODD, or ADHD, or a host of other issues. Perservation (as someone who has an OCD diagnosis) is not a kid thing nor is it an autism thing.

The base issue here is that TSM puts through an estimated 800 people an hour. The ride is six minutes long. If you have 20 people who have perserveration issues over that ride for an hour - which is completely believable given the number of people with special needs in the park - and as I said, it doesn't have to be autism for the perservation issues to be valid - and for some people, even with a valid reason to have a GAC, they don't loop due to perservation, they loop because they can, each traveling with 3 other people, taking ten minutes to complete a loop and reach the front of the line - you have 480 spots per hour filled with your special needs guests. Leaving 320 spots per hour for everyone else. That isn't sustainable. If its 40 guests traveling with four people - no one other than those with GAC cards is riding - and even those people will have waits. It has become a ride for those with GAC cards - as long as they always get to cut it line to avoid a wait. So the Fastpass line - which should be a quick five or ten minutes, stretches out to a forty minute wait - and if you didn't get a Fastpass, standby will take you hours. And that is only if the CMs are trying to manage three lines.

(And boy, is that a convoluted word problem....)

 

[MidwayState]

Of course autism is a real disability, but that doesn't mean that children with autism should receive a superior experience to NT kids at the parks.

If families of autistic children make adjustments at home, it seems they should be able to make them on vacation.

Yes! And if CHANGE in their routine is such a horrible experience for the child, along with waiting in lines and not liking crowds etc...then why in the world does dragging them to WDW sound like a good idea to anyone? Sounds like a set up FOR disaster...not a vacation. You know, I probably wouldn't feel like this if there weren't sooo many people out there claiming that their child is on the spectrum, when probably half of them just have behavioral issues. I've seen it, and I'm all too aware that people are not doing their jobs as parents these days. I just don't buy that every other kid nowadays has something wrong with them that makes it okay to not ever have to do anything they don't want to do. If things are THIS bad then the human race needs to stop breeding because all of these kids are going to grow up and breed themselves and within just a few generations we are going to be nothing but arm flapping, upset, I can eat nothing but pizza and nuggets people. And as odd as this sounds, I'm not even trying to be mean or insensitive! Just honest! I mean seriously, does anyone ever stop and think about this? This is all new stuff and what happens when this generation grows up? It's not like Downs syndrome or anything else for that matter. It's running rampant and no one knows why yet no one is willing to stop having children. I'm sorry, but it's just things like this that no one likes to talk about, but it crosses my mind a LOT.

 

[KGK]

This thread is proof that you can't fix stupid. And if you're thinking of quoting and reposting this, I'm probably talking about you.

 

[MidwayState]

I completely disagree with abuse of the system and riding over and over while others have not ridden once. But I have a question for everyone and please no bashing or negativity. If there is a ride with say 12 cars and only one car can accommodate a wheelchair/scooter, should the person in a wheelchair have to wait in a regular queue? Essentially if we really wanted it to be equally fair every car needs to be able to accommodate a wheelchair then no matter when it was this persons turn the availability is there. I hope this make sense and you get what my point is. I just feel until all playing fields are completely equal then it will not be fixed. As for someone who can not wait in line I completely understand but doesn't the FP fix that situation? Again please no responses that are going to bash or be mean.

yes, technically that would be true, but the wheelchair cars don't have nearly the capacity for riders as a regular car so lines would become even longer for everyone and create an even bigger problem.

 

[MidwayState]

And still no one has chimed in on how their child functions in the real world not Disney world. If your child can't wait in any line for more than 5 seconds then how are you able to leave your house? If you can't loop the Starbucks 8 times in a row to get them their drink what happens? Please someone answer this I really want to know?

lmao! Seriously! Well...to be fair, at least one has said, "we don't go anywhere or do anything." I guess their child doesn't go to school or they live in a cave or something. They don't want to subject anyone to their childs meltdowns around town, but they have no problem with subjecting thousands to it at WDW I suppose. It makes no sense to me either. It's all just BS.

 

[crisi]

Or they have OCD, or ODD, or ADHD, or a host of other issues. Perservation (as someone who has an OCD diagnosis) is not a kid thing nor is it an autism thing.

The base issue here is that TSM puts through an estimated 800 people an hour. The ride is six minutes long. If you have 20 people who have perserveration issues over that ride for an hour - which is completely believable given the number of people with special needs in the park - and as I said, it doesn't have to be autism for the perservation issues to be valid - and for some people, even with a valid reason to have a GAC, they don't loop due to perservation, they loop because they can, each traveling with 3 other people, taking ten minutes to complete a loop and reach the front of the line - you have 480 spots per hour filled with your special needs guests. Leaving 320 spots per hour for everyone else. That isn't sustainable. If its 40 guests traveling with four people - no one other than those with GAC cards is riding - and even those people will have waits. It has become a ride for those with GAC cards - as long as they always get to cut it line to avoid a wait. So the Fastpass line - which should be a quick five or ten minutes, stretches out to a forty minute wait - and if you didn't get a Fastpass, standby will take you hours. And that is only if the CMs are trying to manage three lines.

(And boy, is that a convoluted word problem....)

And if I may....

then what happens is you get someone like me, who has anxiety and OCD and crowds make it worse - who manages that at Disney by going during low crowd times and using Fastpasses, who says "I can't wait in a crowded 40 minute Fastpass lane, I just can't do it - I'll go postal." Or someone with high blood pressure, or someone with bad hips, anyone who can't manage a 40 minute crowded line....And goes to Guest Service and gets a GAC and ends up adding to the issue that the Fastpass lane takes forever, because now I'm in the "I can't wait in a long line" lane. So now we have 20 people looping, and another whole batch who need accommodation because of the accommodation made for others.