Are your televisions prepared for 2009?

[cybrkitn]

Advanced Television Systems Committee and Quadrature amplitude modulation.

ATSC is used to refer to how digital channels are broadcast over-the-air. In reality it should be 8VSB (8-level vestigial sideband modulation), because that's the actual method. (Again, ATSC is just the committee that defined the method.)

QAM is used to refer to how digital channels are delivered via cable television services. (Just to complete the circle, QAM was defined for cable television by SCTE, Society of Cable Telecommunications Engineers.)

Chances are that if it was $1,000 five years ago, then it does not have a digital tuner.

As long as your television is hooked up to a Dish Network converter box, then none of this affects you at all.

That's just what I was hoping for. Thanks

 

[katerkat]

I have no idea if ours works. We paid enough for it, that it ought to. All that matters to me is that Tivo still works.

We have a Sony Wega, purchased in 2005, connected to cable through a Series 2 Tivo. We do pick up the cable company's HD signals right now, even though we don't pay for an HD package. And the music channels.

 

[bicker]

What I am understanding is that I will have switch from analog cable to digital cable.

Not quite. First, keep in mind that we're talking about two things in this thread: (1) Over-the-air and (2) cable. With regard to over-the-air, there is a deadline, it will arrive, and then you will have had to have done something by then, or you'll be watching snow. With regard to cable, nothing is set is stone yet. The Order issued by the FCC on Friday was limited in scope and didn't mandate anyone switch to digital. Rather, it just made it very clear that the FCC will be doing things to provide cable companies substantial incentives to make the switch from analog or hybrid analog/digital to all-digital. That, combined with the fact that at least one cable company has already made the switch, city-wide, in a major American city (Chicago), without any FCC incentive provided, makes it very clear which way the wind is blowing. However, remember, it is not set in stone, yet.

Also, note the distinction: Is isn't that you will have to switch. Rather, the cable company will simply stop offering analog service.

Then the cable company is make buy 5 digital cable boxes to put on all my TVs.

Presumably, if you're paying them for service, you'll want to buy the equipment you'll need to view the service you're paying for.

I hope someone in the know can explain this to me I am not getting the analog to digital cable box thing.

I'm not sure what part you're confused about. Are you wondering why the cable company would switch to all-digital service? That I can explain.

First, as I indicated already, the FCC will probably be providing various incentives to do so. The first was that if they pledge to go all digital by December 31, 2009, then they are exempt from an Order to provide separable security in their cable boxes. Don't worry about what THAT means, but rather just understand that the waiver saves them a lot of money as the boxes they will be using will be less expensive than the boxes they would have had to use if they didn't get the waiver.

Second, in order to provide an analog channel to you, it takes up 6 MHz of bandwidth. A typical cable system has between 550 MHz and 800 MHz of bandwidth. So at 6 MHz per analog channel, they are limited to a total of as little as 91 channels, and that's assuming they use the whole pipe for television; in reality they have to share that pipe between television, Video On Demand, telephone service and high-speed Internet service!!! In this competitive marketplace, the most profitable customers choose the cable company that can deliver them (literally) hundreds of channels. A digital channel provides typically BETTER picture quality, but only requires 0.5 MHz of bandwidth. They can fit 10 superior digital channels in the same bandwidth as just one inferior analog channel. So switching to all-digital helps them offer hundreds of channels, better picture quality on all of them, plus all the other services.

Does that make sense now?

 

[bicker]

I have no idea if ours works. We paid enough for it, that it ought to. All that matters to me is that Tivo still works.

Oh gosh. That opens a whole 'nother can-of-worms.

I have four TiVos. (Actually one of them is boxed up and I'm about to go looking for a family member to take it off my hands.) The Series 1 and the two Series 2 TiVos will be affected by these changes: If my cable system goes all-digital, then they will no longer work, without being connected to a cable box (which is sometimes a bid dodgy with TiVo, because you have to get your TiVo to send remote control signals to your cable box using these IR blaster doo-hickeys -- not to mention that you need two boxes, the TiVo and the cable box, where you only needed one box before).

The only TiVo that will work with digital cable is the TiVo Series 3. I have one of those, and it works pretty-well, but do be aware that other changes coming soon from cable companies may render even the TiVo Series 3 unable to work with the cable system. If you want more information on that, let me know. (It's called SDV.)

 

[crazelion]

That made plenty of sense. I even understand all the technical stuff.

That explains why I am losing cable channels to digital cable.

This simple get a digital TV put cable box on top get digital channels and all set.

Not quite. First, keep in mind that we're talking about two things in this thread: (1) Over-the-air and (2) cable. With regard to over-the-air, there is a deadline, it will arrive, and then you will have had to have done something by then, or you'll be watching snow. With regard to cable, nothing is set is stone yet. The Order issued by the FCC on Friday was limited in scope and didn't mandate anyone switch to digital. Rather, it just made it very clear that the FCC will be doing things to provide cable companies substantial incentives to make the switch from analog or hybrid analog/digital to all-digital. That, combined with the fact that at least one cable company has already made the switch, city-wide, in a major American city (Chicago), without any FCC incentive provided, makes it very clear which way the wind is blowing. However, remember, it is not set in stone, yet.

Also, note the distinction: Is isn't that you will have to switch. Rather, the cable company will simply stop offering analog service.

Presumably, if you're paying them for service, you'll want to buy the equipment you'll need to view the service you're paying for.

I'm not sure what part you're confused about. Are you wondering why the cable company would switch to all-digital service? That I can explain.

First, as I indicated already, the FCC will probably be providing various incentives to do so. The first was that if they pledge to go all digital by December 31, 2009, then they are exempt from an Order to provide separable security in their cable boxes. Don't worry about what THAT means, but rather just understand that the waiver saves them a lot of money as the boxes they will be using will be less expensive than the boxes they would have had to use if they didn't get the waiver.

Second, in order to provide an analog channel to you, it takes up 6 MHz of bandwidth. A typical cable system has between 550 MHz and 800 MHz of bandwidth. So at 6 MHz per analog channel, they are limited to a total of as little as 91 channels, and that's assuming they use the whole pipe for television; in reality they have to share that pipe between television, Video On Demand, telephone service and high-speed Internet service!!! In this competitive marketplace, the most profitable customers choose the cable company that can deliver them (literally) hundreds of channels. A digital channel provides typically BETTER picture quality, but only requires 0.5 MHz of bandwidth. They can fit 10 superior digital channels in the same bandwidth as just one inferior analog channel. So switching to all-digital helps them offer hundreds of channels, better picture quality on all of them, plus all the other services.

Does that make sense now?

 

[Wishing on a star]

I suppose that's one way of putting it.

No, not necessarily. Analog televisions cannot receive or display digital channels, such as HD channels. Those channels will, unquestionably, look better than anything you've ever seen on your old television. However, the analog channels will tend to look worse on your new digital television. HDTVs tend to be larger, thereby magnifying the imperfections that have always been there in the analog signals. What's worse, you have that shocking contrast, between the incredible picture quality of the HD channels and the comparatively muddy picture quality of the analog channels.

We don't pay anything extra for HD.

See, that is just it... I am assuming that all channels are now going digital. So, that would solve the problem of the channels actually looking worse on a better, more expensive television set.

We've got a cheap 'family package' on our satellite. Last I was aware of, you have to have a larger package, plus add the HD options, which would effectively DOUBLE our bill.

I am hoping that this will change soon!!! That is why we have been hesitant to spend a lot of money on a nice television, which would effectively be useless unless we fork over big bucks to the satellite network.

Hey, I am one of those who wouldn't even have cable/satellite at all, except that where we are at, we get NO reception at all otherwise.

So, count us in with those few who posted earlier that we really wouldn't choose to pay for television either!

 

[katerkat]

Frick, seriously?? We're planning on getting a Series 3 HD box when we move (probably next summer) and putting the Series 2 box in Russ's room or the playroom, but I don't want to fiddle with even more boxes to make his work so he can watch Mickey Mouse Clubhouse whenever he wants. And that Tivo even has lifetime service.

 

[bicker]

We actually bought a Series 3 last year ($800) and transferred our Series 2 lifetime service over to it (limited time offer, no longer available), because of this concern. (We ended up returning that Series 3 because of CableCard problems, having the lifetime service returned to the Series 2, and then bought another one last month [$400], but it was too late to transfer the lifetime service, so we're stuck with the lifetime service on the Series 2, which we know will probably start running into complications before another few years go by.)

Anyway, yes, seriously. The Series 2 boxes only have analog tuners.

 

[bicker]

I have to say that I'm pretty impressed that only 1/3 of folks aren't prepared. On the television forums websites, the estimates are far higher.

 

[IwasatWDWforamonth]

We have an hdtv in the living room and have have directv since 95 so i'd say we are prepared. I do need to replace the tv in my room but thats only because its 16 years old and the picture has become very dark.

My concern is about watching tv when its storming as the dish goes out 60% of the time when it storms, as do the digital channels we get through the antenna but they seem to stay on better than the dish

are they going to make any little tv's digital? like my 2 inch casio, its what I use when the power goes out, to check for storm warnings, or am I just going to have to buy a weather radio?

 

[Wishing on a star]

Is there a place, like a website, to find out which channels/broadcasters are using digital, and which are still using analog? Or would I have to look up each one.

Wouldn't the Dish company have a list of this???

 

[LuvDuke]

********

 

[Charade]

********

Oooo! Coward... (I caught the first verison).

 

[LuvDuke]

Oooo! Coward... (I caught the first verison).

Shhh! Don't go telling the world our secrets.

Honestly, why state the obvious.

 

[bicker]

are they going to make any little tv's digital? like my 2 inch casio, its what I use when the power goes out, to check for storm warnings, or am I just going to have to buy a weather radio?

Eventually, it seems likely that they will produce replacements for our hand-held televisions. (I have one too.) However, right now, cost is an issue. I think the best they could do is $150, and for a teeny-tiny little screen television, not enough folks would feel that is worthwhile.

I've got an alternative for now. My laptop has a three hour battery and I have an external, digital tuner.

 

[bicker]

Is there a place, like a website, to find out which channels/broadcasters are using digital, and which are still using analog? Or would I have to look up each one.

For over-the-air broadcasters, the best resource is http://antennaweb.org. Just enter your zip code and it will provide you all of the over-the-air signals you can perhaps receive, with asterisks indicating those that are digital.

For a more comprehensive view of which cable networks are available in HD, there is a list maintained on the AVS Forum. I'll try to find it next time I'm there. However, what really matters is what your service provider provides, and of course your service provider is sometimes the best source for that information.

 

[bicker]

Okay: Most of the Sticky Threads at the top of the HDTV Programming forum cover bits of the question you asked. However, the best single source there is this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=419472

Here's a link to that forum: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=34

 

[Charade]

Well, hopefully by that time I'll be able to convince my Dfi (who's a techno-neophyte) that we need a new 60 inch flat panel HD TV!

 

[bicker]

Well, I hope that there are more (and cheaper) DVRs available by then.

 

[bicker]

Here's an update to this, based on an FCC meeting held this week.

Please feel free to ask questions! Those of us who know will be glad to try to explain any of this as best as we can!

The FCC has directed cable companies to continue to provide analog signals to customers for must-carry channels (your local broadcast channels, which have elected to be carried by the cable company without charging the cable company for carriage) through 2012. Starting in February 2009, the cable systems will be required to carry these channels in both analog and digital, rather than switching from analog to digital at that time.

Note that the analog signals may be provided either in the clear (as they are today), or via a converter box which you'll need for each television. However, the converter boxes for this would NOT (necessarily) be the converter boxes you're going to start hearing about in the next few months, for which you'll be eligible to receive $40 off coupons for. Those converter boxes would help convert digital over-the-air signals to analog, for your older televisions. (These are "ATSC-to-analog" converters.) The converters you'll need for cable would be different. (They would be "QAM-to-analog" converters, or "SDV-to-analog" converters.)

Note that this new regulation only affects cable. It does not affect satellite, which remains exempt from open-system reguations, and therefore can provide you whatever they wish, however they wish to. There is new news in that quarter though: About a week ago, Dish Network and DirecTV both announced that they are concerned that they will not be prepared in time for the February 2009 deadline, with regard to supplying their customers continued access to local channels. All major cable systems will be prepared to accept digital signals from all the local channels, and of course, as mentioned earlier in this thread, folks getting television service over-the-air are well-advised to start preparing for that transition themselves. However, satellite services are now saying that they don't see how they'll be ready.

It isn't just a matter of providing both analog and digital or even just digital or just analog. The satellite services currently only provide analog in many cities, but the analog signal from the 1000s of local channels that they rely on will be cut-off in February 2009, and they will have to make engineering changes to (1) switch-over to accepting digital signals from the local channels, and (2) uplink those digital signals to their satellites. Those two engineering changes are what they're now saying they won't be able to accomplish in time.

(I'm also not clear how they're going to fit 1000s of new HD signals on their satellites. I suspect that they'll actually be providing customers local channels in digital SD [low-resolution], and then supplement that with a couple of local channels per network in HD, available nation-wide. So you'll watch your local news and local interest programming in low-res, but you can turn to the New York or LA channel for the prime-time programs in HD -- but that's just a guess.)

Again, if any of this is confusing, please ask questions!