Are the prices too low?

[Granny]

Boy, I wish I had a dollar for how many times this subject comes up!

Yep, that's what I was thinking.

Not sure why this is a big deal to anyone who doesn't regularly rent points. After all, it doesn't bother me if my neighbor sells his car below blue book or another neighbor has a garage sale and sells good things at very low prices.

What's the right price for DVC rentals? What the owner wants to get matched up with a willing renter at that price.

 

[3DisneyKids]

Ditto...this topic comes up a bit. And there are even threads which get started stating "Hey, let's all band together and start chargin $12 per point and make that the new standard..." (aka price fixing...)

But, as others have mentioned, there are a variety of reasons why it has remained low all these years. I was a renter from 2002 - 2005 before purchasing later in 05. And I paid $10 per point in 2002...that was 5 years ago and it is still the going rate. Inflation seems to have hit everything except DVC point rentals....

 

[ChefMickey]

Why is so hard to understand that the market dictates the price of points on the open rental market? A few people might agree that they SHOULD pay more based on comparable rooms at retail rates.. but thats not what the market dictates given the risks and benefits.

Which is why I said "I don't think they should". I am well aware the market dictates the price. It's an opinion.Thanks

 

[spiceycat]

when I was first on this board (okay the one before this one) - it rented at $8 a point - having moved up from $6

then DVC say it was worth $10 a point in their buy back. over night everyone was charging $10 a point.

yes the annual fees have gone up and yes renters probably should ask for more.

I have some people who have rented from me going on several years. there is generally (except with Disney) a discount for long term customers.

 

[Supply and Demand]

I'm glad to see this discussion going on, and from the looks of things most of the posters to this thread have a tremendous amount of knowledge on this subject. Here's what I really don't understand: why do members rent out points at a flat rate without regard to the room availability (see my user name)? An example might be right now, try to find a studio, 1 or 2 BR at any of the resorts for June, July and most of August. A would-be renter posts a Reservation Wanted request for this time period, and members seem willing to give their points away for $8-10 a point. Go to Disney's site and search for a reservation at any DVC resort, you might find a 8 nights at BWV in a studio for $2480, which for 122 points comes to $20.32/pt. A similar stay in a 1 BR at BWV goes for $3347, at 246 points = $13.60/pt. If you can't find a room for cash at that resort but you have a ressie that you can't use, don't you think it would be a little more valuable than $8-10/pt? I can understand offering a little discount if you need to if you feel like renting from you represents a risk to those renters. If you feel like you want to subsidize their vacation by paying for 30-50% of it (would you pay for 30-50% of their airfare to get them there?), I think your points would be put to better use by donating them to a local charity auction and arranging the auction winner's vacation for them. At least then the charity would get something, you could take a deduction for the full value of the points, and the rest of us have a chance to make a little bit more than we can if people are giving their points away for $9-10.

For other times of the year when demand isn't so high, I think the reality is that Disney sets the point value by their cash room rates at the DVC resorts. I don't know what kinds of cash discounts are available to non members, perhaps some of you can fill me in. As long as Disney's cash rooms are available, we can't expect to get $15/point when a non DVC member can get the room for less.

Regarding early buyers of DVC who were smart enough to recognize the value when point prices were much lower, why do they feel that $10/pt or less is OK to sell at now? If they were smart enough to buy gold at $35/ounce, and the rest of us bought it at $350/ ounce, would they sell their gold today for less than $667/ ounce?

There really isn't any power here for any of us to engage in "price fixing", but I think if we had guidelines to think about and perhaps get made into a FAQ or sticky it might help, especially with new people (members or non) renting for the first time. A lot of what is already in this thread is great information, especially about not posting when your points expire. Other questions I can think of, and maybe you all have discussed these at length and I haven't read enought posts from the past, but should/do we:

- charge DVC members who are short on points differently than non members? Can we somehow correctly identify both types of renters?
- charge differently for transfers than for making ressies for non members?
- charge different rates for Studios vs 1 or 2 BR because Disney CRO seems to?
- try to educate non members who try to low ball or accuse us of price gouging if we ask for more than $12/pt
- pass on all paypal fees to the renter or give a break to people with good checks?
- ignore posters who request reservations but only want to pay $10/pt? It seems that this may be happening to some degree, would it make sense for us to post a reply with link to a FAQ or this thread so they can understand why they are being ignored?
- post the price per point when we complete a transaction so that non members can see that people are paying what we're asking?
- post the price per point when we respond to a renter by direct email/PM instead of by posting on the thread?
- encourage open bidding on the posts so that there is some transparency? I know the problems of shills may be too hard to overcome without moving everything over to ebay, and I'm not sure that ebay is the right venue.
- try to get the rent/trade admins to ease up on the 2 posts per year limit? Does that limit encourage people with hundreds of point to "dump" them at $10/pt 8 months away from the end of their use year?
- should we advertise a dollar amount for existing ressies instead of price per point? Why do all the conversions several times by each party?
- does Disney price their Friday & Saturday night cash reservations in a way that we can't compete with our overpriced point requirements for those nights?

I know some of you can come up with some other questions and answers that might make a FAQ more useful.

I'm not trying to start a revolution here. These are just my initial impressions on the subject as I am just getting ready to rent out some points for the first time after being able to use them religiously for 7 years. I was shocked that $8-10 was the price I'm seeing when that was the price I heard 7 years ago. My dues have probably doubled in those years, is a $10/pt "habit" a major reason the points haven't kept up? Can we break that habit with a little effort? I can understand $10 as a last resort if your points are expiring soon and you're trying to avoid a loss, I'm only trying to get some insight on why this number (or lower) seems to be stuck in people's heads as a starting price. Thank you all in advance for sharing your insights!

 

[tubtruck]

I think that $10 is used because it is a round number.

 

[drakethib]

I'm glad to see this discussion going on, and from the looks of things most of the posters to this thread have a tremendous amount of knowledge on this subject. Here's what I really don't understand: why do members rent out points at a flat rate without regard to the room availability (see my user name)? An example might be right now, try to find a studio, 1 or 2 BR at any of the resorts for June, July and most of August. A would-be renter posts a Reservation Wanted request for this time period, and members seem willing to give their points away for $8-10 a point. Go to Disney's site and search for a reservation at any DVC resort, you might find a 8 nights at BWV in a studio for $2480, which for 122 points comes to $20.32/pt. A similar stay in a 1 BR at BWV goes for $3347, at 246 points = $13.60/pt. If you can't find a room for cash at that resort but you have a ressie that you can't use, don't you think it would be a little more valuable than $8-10/pt? I can understand offering a little discount if you need to if you feel like renting from you represents a risk to those renters. If you feel like you want to subsidize their vacation by paying for 30-50% of it (would you pay for 30-50% of their airfare to get them there?), I think your points would be put to better use by donating them to a local charity auction and arranging the auction winner's vacation for them. At least then the charity would get something, you could take a deduction for the full value of the points, and the rest of us have a chance to make a little bit more than we can if people are giving their points away for $9-10.

For other times of the year when demand isn't so high, I think the reality is that Disney sets the point value by their cash room rates at the DVC resorts. I don't know what kinds of cash discounts are available to non members, perhaps some of you can fill me in. As long as Disney's cash rooms are available, we can't expect to get $15/point when a non DVC member can get the room for less.

Regarding early buyers of DVC who were smart enough to recognize the value when point prices were much lower, why do they feel that $10/pt or less is OK to sell at now? If they were smart enough to buy gold at $35/ounce, and the rest of us bought it at $350/ ounce, would they sell their gold today for less than $667/ ounce?

There really isn't any power here for any of us to engage in "price fixing", but I think if we had guidelines to think about and perhaps get made into a FAQ or sticky it might help, especially with new people (members or non) renting for the first time. A lot of what is already in this thread is great information, especially about not posting when your points expire. Other questions I can think of, and maybe you all have discussed these at length and I haven't read enought posts from the past, but should/do we:

- charge DVC members who are short on points differently than non members? Can we somehow correctly identify both types of renters?
- charge differently for transfers than for making ressies for non members?
- charge different rates for Studios vs 1 or 2 BR because Disney CRO seems to?
- try to educate non members who try to low ball or accuse us of price gouging if we ask for more than $12/pt
- pass on all paypal fees to the renter or give a break to people with good checks?
- ignore posters who request reservations but only want to pay $10/pt? It seems that this may be happening to some degree, would it make sense for us to post a reply with link to a FAQ or this thread so they can understand why they are being ignored?
- post the price per point when we complete a transaction so that non members can see that people are paying what we're asking?
- post the price per point when we respond to a renter by direct email/PM instead of by posting on the thread?
- encourage open bidding on the posts so that there is some transparency? I know the problems of shills may be too hard to overcome without moving everything over to ebay, and I'm not sure that ebay is the right venue.
- try to get the rent/trade admins to ease up on the 2 posts per year limit? Does that limit encourage people with hundreds of point to "dump" them at $10/pt 8 months away from the end of their use year?
- should we advertise a dollar amount for existing ressies instead of price per point? Why do all the conversions several times by each party?
- does Disney price their Friday & Saturday night cash reservations in a way that we can't compete with our overpriced point requirements for those nights?

I know some of you can come up with some other questions and answers that might make a FAQ more useful.

I'm not trying to start a revolution here. These are just my initial impressions on the subject as I am just getting ready to rent out some points for the first time after being able to use them religiously for 7 years. I was shocked that $8-10 was the price I'm seeing when that was the price I heard 7 years ago. My dues have probably doubled in those years, is a $10/pt "habit" a major reason the points haven't kept up? Can we break that habit with a little effort? I can understand $10 as a last resort if your points are expiring soon and you're trying to avoid a loss, I'm only trying to get some insight on why this number (or lower) seems to be stuck in people's heads as a starting price. Thank you all in advance for sharing your insights!

ANyone want to bet who this DISer is in disquise?

I am taking bets.

 

[Anthony1971]

There will always be the renter who has to rent thier points and a lot will take 5.00 a point to cover thier Maint fee rether than have them expire not everyone cares to turn a profit some just care to get something for points they can not use my cousine who has one child in college and on in the lsat year of HS is willing to rent his 400 OKW points for the Maint. they will never see this board I have rented points to people I know and that is as far as I will go.. I have a lot of friends with young children who may get a free hotel at Disney if I could not use my points to much hassle...

 

[tgj]

If someone's points are going to expire or can't use them, why not donate a room for a couple of nights to the silent auction/raffle at your local church/volunteer fire dept/school/charity fundraiser?

Couldn't you deduct something ($10/pt, AAA rate, AP rate, rack rate) off your taxes?

Gee, and maybe we'd actually be helping someone out in the process.....

Just a thought...

 

[TTFN!]

Long Term Lurker Here:


I think the DIS membership is bi-(or perhaps tri) modal in distribution.

Experienced owners who actively manage their points and are up-to-date on the DVC rules and regulations. They ask and get $14.00 per point. There are many owners on the DIS that clearly get that amount and above.

Owners, who are not just Disney nuts, who 'remember' their contracts when planning their next vacation. These people, IMHO, tend to get caught by banking deadlines, and offer the 'firesale points'. They are in 'panic mode' willing to accept anything ($10.00pp) rather than 'loose-it-all'

Perhaps the third group, is people who get caught up in the mechanics of life, new kid, illness, marriage, divorce, etc. They tend to be short-term or one time firesale renters.

The guy who runs dvcbyrequest, clearly gets $14.00 per point and above for every rental. I know this from renting from him, and sending several friends to him. Why pay $14.00 when I can get $10.00 or less. Like crisi mentioned, his site and 'professionalism' give me a sense of comfort and security, that saving another $400.00 is not worth, especially with the recent horror stories about scams perpetrated here on the DIS!

If I ever have points, and have an excess. First I would treat/take family with me, so there wouldn't be rental points left. If in time (kids grown, still working), I would use a larger room (1 BR over a studio) for my own comfort B/4 renting. If I ever had to rent points, I'd certainly start at $14.00pp or above.

Just a people watcher's thoughts on this (actually) very complex question.

Ta-Ta-For-Now!

FWIW I think S & D is probably the banned guy!

 

[mikron]

I think that $10 is used because it is a round number.

You hit it on the head.

 

[DisneyDVCdad]

I'm going to take a different slant on this! I think the rates at the DVC resorts are priced higher to keep the non-members away! If you knew you could get a room for 2800 a week with made service or pay 2800 to get a room without made service which would you choose?

 

[roadtripper]

OK--
No flames, but I am guilty of helping a fellow DVCer (and work colleague) rent her points at the "fire sale" rate on the DVC rent/trade board. She had no idea that renting points was even an option. She was going through a divorce, couldn't vacation, and needed some cash. I understood when she took about 7 per point that year just to get something back (especially because her soon-to-be-ex had no knowledge of the transaction). But THE NEXT YEAR, she did the same thing again-- forgot about the points, was too late to bank, and was happy to get 7 per point. Then I was horrified-- realizing that it's people like her who drive down the price for all of us. Forgive me?

BTW-- When our flights changed and we had to cancel Columbus day weekend at Beach Club, I had no takers at 12 per point. I thought that one was an easy sell.

 

[drakethib]

I have rented mine for $5 a point before. (And that is the only time I have rented any of our points as nowadays we use them all and look for more)

I couldn't use them at time and a family member wanted a Disney vacation. Covered my cost and made a family member and their kid pretty happy.

 

[kimberh]

There are people out there getting a decent price for their points, the fire sales... What can be said? They haven't placed value on their points. Disney has sure placed a value on the rooms. I just don't understand giving the points away to meet maintenance fees.

 

[Mtnman44]

I was going to try to explain how market economics works and how prices are really set but then I figured that would mostly be a waste of time....

 

[simpilotswife]

I was shocked that $8-10 was the price I'm seeing when that was the price I heard 7 years ago. My dues have probably doubled in those years

Dues have not doubled in the past 7 yrs.

OKW BWV VB VB (sub) HHI VWL
4.40 4.85 5.63 4.39 4.98 4.73 2007
3.16 3.94 4.08 2.87 3.25 3.62 2000


Personally I think that people should charge what they are comfortable charging and people who want to charge less should not have to defend themselves or explain. Not everyone is out to recoup the cost of their points with a rental

 

[tomandrobin]

Personally, I would only rent my points around the $14-15 range. $10 a point, once you deduct the MF's is not enough incentive for me. Second, I am not sure if we will ever have left over points. Always seem to be borrowing and adding on to cover our addiction to the mouse!

 

[bnlbebes]

I think that $10 is used because it is a round number.

I also agree that most renters use this because they don't have to get out their calculators to figure out the total cost... (I am guilty of this very thing.)

When I rent to family, I still ask for $10 a point out of courtesy to them, but to others I have been asking, AND GETTING $12 a point. What's the harm in asking? Drop your price as time goes on or if you're in a rush to rent, but otherwise let's start charging a more reasonable price for our investment.

 

[kespo]

I was just able to rent points that I am unable to use this year with no problem. I listed for $12pp. I didn't get as many people replying but, instead I felt I got serious renters who replied.

I do think the the points are undervalued. That being said...most of the points that are a lower on the rental board are expiring soon and can't be banked.

I do think we are seeing the price inch more towards $12 pp. Renters do realize they are still getting a great deal!! We might even rent in a few years to be able to get a GV. Since we don't have enough points to get one on our own unless we skip going one year...which will never happen!lol..

I have only rented my points a couple of times but have had a great experience. There is always risk on both sides but, I do find that generally people on these boards are truly "disney "lovers.