Are the Days of Walking a DVC Reservation Numbered?

[tx911]

And that is a prime example that Disney had to change the rules in order for the program to work as intended.

They realized the the current rules and criteria they were using was too broad and allowed people to qualify that Disney never intended to qualify.

It wasn’t that CMs were approving people who they knew should not get it..it was a problem with the rules.

That is what is currently at issue…the actual rules allow walking because there is no rule that says you can’t make modifications as much as you want and that is why walking currently works the way it does.

Limit modifications in some way and walking is curbed.

There is no way that DVC can simply say they will cancel a reservation because they believe you booked it with bad intent.

But that is my point.

None of us want rules limiting modifications. But if members who want a leg up on their compatriots continue taking advantage of the allowances by walking, it may ultimately result in more restrictive rules that none of us like.

 

[Sandisw]

Same question...

If they allowed a maximum on 4 modifications within the first month (11th month window), how would that workout, would it make any difference to regular members or to walkers?

I think 4 in the first month would actually do nothing to stop walkers nor would it negatively impact too many owners.

Hence why I said I don’t like a number. As much as it would not be my first choice, I think they will be better served to make it that the first month, you can’t modify other than to drop days.

And the reason I say drop days should be allowed is because it puts the room back for someone else.

The only issue with this is that some people need to be able to book more than 7 days so they have to increase that if you can’t extended. I mentioned 14 but maybe 10 would be better.

DVC has the data to know how many owners make reservations for more than 7 days so they can set that based on what they know.

Once you are at 10 months, IMO, there really is no reason that DVC has to restrict modifications and bookings for owners.

 

[Tatebeck]

Good luck enforcing that. lol

Exactly. They broke their system and now they get to try and fix it!

 

[Chili327]

I think 4 in the first month would actually do nothing to stop walkers nor would it negatively impact too many owners.

Hence why I said I don’t like a number. As much as it would not be my first choice, I think they will be better served to make it that the first month, you can’t modify other than to drop days.

And the reason I say drop days should be allowed is because it puts the room back for someone else.

The only issue with this is that some people need to be able to book more than 7 days so they have to increase that if you can’t extended. I mentioned 14 but maybe 10 would be better.

DVC has the data to know how many owners make reservations for more than 7 days so they can set that based on what they know.

Makes sense.

Once you are at 10 months, IMO, there really is no reason that DVC has to restrict modifications and bookings for owners.

And yes, at 10 months it's back to the wild west.

 

[Sandisw]

But that is my point.

None of us want rules limiting modifications. But if members who want a leg up on their compatriots continue taking advantage of the allowances by walking, it may ultimately result in more restrictive rules that none of us like.

Hey, I am all for leaving things as is and let walking happen if it happens to keep unlimited reservations.

But, it’s a concern of others, and I believe you as well, so the rules have to change if DVC decides it’s a good move for the membership as a whole.

That’s why the discussion has to revolve around what changes to the rules should be made that balances things.

Right now, deciding to walk or not is based on someone’s choice because the rules don’t prohibit it…and not because they are ignoring it..it’s because they don’t have rules in place to enforce.

 

[Tatebeck]

For anyone interested, here is some additional reasoning behind why walking absolutely breaks the booking system as it currently stands. According to the rules and regulations, their whole booking system relies on First Come First Served (FCFS) at 11 months from desired check-in at 8:00AM Eastern. This is very transparent and concise and lets everyone know when they are eligible to log on and book a trip. If you have to take a break from work, wake up early, borrow a computer, go to the library, etc it doesn't matter, we are all on the same page and have the opportunity to be ready to book.

When rooms are walked, all of those rooms, once a walk has begun, are effectively NO LONGER FCFS at 11 Months.

• The rooms that are being walked to will not be available at 11 months from any check in within 7 days from them. These days/rooms were effectively "served" before the 11 month window was available for them as a check in, middle, or check out day.
• The days that the walkers drop behind them become bookable at some random time 1 to 30 (but usually 1 to 7) days after their 11 month window has officially begun. So now each room is FCFS at a random time and date determined by the person that grabbed that room early and released it

Now in order to compete for a competitive room you have to either log in at 8:00 am some unknown number of days before your desired trip to secure a room OR constantly log on at random times in the month following the 11 month window for a chance that room. It has now changed a concise booking time into a ridiculous amount of different booking times and dates with members never knowing when they should actually book.

Even the waitlist system will not help in this instance because it does not grab rooms instantly once they appear, stalkers have been known to grab rooms others have on waitlists. And you are supposed to waitlist a your entire desired stay when many rooms will reappear one or two days at a time and are unlikely to be picked up on a waitlist anyway.

TL : DR Walking also seems to break FCFS rules.

 

[Sandisw]

If at this point you are planning to use it, then you have broken no rules. If you were planning on walking it when making the reservation, it was against the rules.

If you make a reservation today, when you really have no desired check in date in the next 11 months, that booking is against the rules. When you have a desired check-in date AND it is within 11 months, then you are eligible to book for that trip

See this is where we disagree. I get to book any reservation I want for any day I want. I own the points.

If I want to book a room for the sake of booking it and let it sit empty, I am allowed to do that.

The only thing I am required to do is what until 11 months from the date that reservation starts.

I know this is just another silly example but owners don’t have to explain why they booked a room.

That’s why I keep coming back to the fact that we have the right to book a room for whatever reason we want and that includes never using it.

Not saying that is a nice thing to do to others, but I as, an owner, get to use my points the way I see fit.

 

[Tatebeck]

See this is where we disagree. I get to book any reservation I want for any day I want. I own the points.

If I want to book a room for the sake of booking it and let it sit empty, I am allowed to do that.

The only thing I am required to do is what until 11 months from the date that reservation starts.

I know this is just another silly example but owners don’t have to explain why they booked a room.

That’s why I keep coming back to the fact that we have the right to book a room for whatever reason we want and that includes never using it.

Not saying that is a nice thing to do to others, but I as, an owner, get to use my points the way I see fit.

You are allowed to book a room for any reason you want (other can commercial activity) but you aren't allowed to book any TIME you want. You said it yourself, it has to be within 11 months of your desired check in. I don't know how much clearer it can be

 

[eticketplease]

According to the rules and regulations, their whole booking system relies on First Come First Served (FCFS) at 11 months from desired check-in at 8:00AM Pacific.

I thought it was 8 am EST / 5 am PST? I guess I now know why I can't get anything...

 

[Tatebeck]

I thought it was 8 am EST / 5 am PST? I guess I now know why I can't get anything...

Whoops wrong coast you are right! Updating!

 

[Sandisw]

For anyone interested, here is some additional reasoning behind why walking absolutely breaks the booking system as it currently stands. According to the rules and regulations, their whole booking system relies on First Come First Served (FCFS) at 11 months from desired check-in at 8:00AM Pacific. This is very transparent and concise and lets everyone know when they are eligible to log on and book a trip. If you have to take a break from work, wake up early, borrow a computer, go to the library, etc it doesn't matter, we are all on the same page and have the opportunity to be ready to book.

When rooms are walked, all of those rooms, once a walk has begun, are effectively NO LONGER FCFS at 11 Months.

• The rooms that are being walked to will not be available at 11 months from any check in within 7 days from them. These days/rooms were effectively "served" before the 11 month window was available for them as a check in, middle, or check out day.
• The days that the walkers drop behind them become bookable at some random time 1 to 30 (but usually 1 to 7) days after their 11 month window has officially begun. So now each room is FCFS at a random time and date determined by the person that grabbed that room early and released it

Now in order to compete for a competitive room you have to either log in at 8:00 am Pacific some unknown number of days before your desired trip to secure a room OR constantly log on at random times in the month following the 11 month window for a chance that room. It has now changed a concise booking time into a ridiculous amount of different booking times and dates with members never knowing when they should actually book.

Even the waitlist system will not help in this instance because it does not grab rooms instantly once they appear, stalkers have been known to grab rooms others have on waitlists. And you are supposed to waitlist a your entire desired stay when many rooms will reappear one or two days at a time and are unlikely to be picked up on a waitlist anyway.

TL : DR Walking also seems to break FCFS rules.

This relies on one big assumption…and that is that the owner who booked those rooms was not entitled to book them.

FCFS does not mean that only those who really want to check in that day get to book…it means that any and all rooms currently not booked when the window opens, are made available to everyone who wants to try and book them that day.

Let’s say they drop the plus 7 and there is no walking.

Are you saying that an owner should still he blocked from booking on a FCFS system if they can’t decide id they really want it?

 

[Tatebeck]

That's what I get for daring to live in the middle of the country lol

 

[Sandisw]

You are allowed to book a room for any reason you want (other can commercial activity) but you aren't allowed to book any TIME you want. You said it yourself, it has to be within 11 months of your desired check in. I don't know how much clearer it can be

Respectfully, you are wrong on that point. I am allowed to book a room with my points for any desired check in day I want, even if I have no intent of physically checking in.

There is no legal requirement for any owner to actually have to show up and use the room. And they don’t have to send someone in their place either.

As long as an owner has points, they are entitled to use them to reserve a room.

 

[Tatebeck]

This relies on one big assumption…and that is that the owner who booked those rooms was not entitled to book them.

FCFS does not mean that only those who really want to check in that day get to book…it means that any and all rooms currently not booked when the window opens, are made available to everyone who wants to try and book them that day.

Let’s say they drop the plus 7 and there is no walking.

Are you saying that an owner should still he blocked from booking on a FCFS system if they can’t decide id they really want it?

A couple things here. You said yourself earlier than any circumstances what would require someone to have to modify a reservation forward (but not far enough to have to cancel and rebook) multiple times and walk a reservation legitimately multiple times in a row would be very rare.

So the chances that an entire block of rooms is constantly fully booked ahead of the 11 month window is much lower if everyone is booking legitimately, even with the +7 days option. Even if some rooms are taken, there should still be some rooms to at least TRY for at the 11 month window and is still an appropriate time for a member to log in and attempt to book as the rules want it to be.

Secondly a desire as you said is indeed a want. So if you want to stay a certain date but aren't sure you can, you are okay to book. But it is not okay per the rules to book dates that you have zero want for and know that you will not use

 

[Tatebeck]

Respectfully, you are wrong on that point. I am allowed to book a room with my points for any desired check in day I want, even if I have no intent of physically checking in.

There is no legal requirement for any owner to actually have to show up and use the room. And they don’t have to send someone in their place either.

That is not what the word “desired” is referring to.

Umm what? I think you completely misunderstood that post.

The Desire is just you wanting to use that room for various reasons.

The Time you can book is limited to 11 months from that desired date... So if you desired to book a room for Christmas 2025 today, you literally can't yet because it is too far away...

Time meaning the time at which you book it, not the time of the actual date of stay. You can want to stay any day that you like, but you cannot book that day if it is super far away until it is closer to the present day. Once it is within 11 months of your desired date the. You can log in and book whenever

 

[Sandisw]

A couple things here. You said yourself earlier than any circumstances what would require someone to have to modify a reservation forward (but not far enough to have to cancel and rebook) multiple times and walk a reservation legitimately multiple times in a row would be very rare.

So the chances that an entire block of rooms is constantly fully booked ahead of the 11 month window is much lower if everyone is booking legitimately, even with the +7 days option. Even if some rooms are taken, there should still be some rooms to at least TRY for at the 11 month window and is still an appropriate time for a member to log in and attempt to book as the rules want it to be.

Secondly a desire as you said is indeed a want. So if you want to stay a certain date but aren't sure you can, you are okay to book. But it is not okay per the rules to book dates that you have zero want for and know that you will not use

Again, an owner can not legallt be restricted from booking any room with their points.

The desired check in is referring to the desired check in date for the reservation…not the indivual.

I am indeed entitled to book a room and let it sit empty. DVC can not stop me from doing that.

Since we are now getting way off into the weeds…let’s try to take it back to what DVC might be able to do to have rules that allow flexibility that DVC is known for and stopping people from walking reservations to gain a booking advantage.

 

[Sandisw]

Umm what? I think you completely misunderstood that post.

The Desire is just you wanting to use that room for various reasons.

The Time you can book is limited to 11 months from that desired date... So if you desired to book a room for Christmas 2025 today, you literally can't yet because it is too far away...

Time meaning the time at which you book it, not the time of the actual date of stay. You can want to stay any day that you like, but you cannot book that day if it is super far away until it is closer to the present day

I did misunderstand then. I thought you were saying that under the FCFS rule an owner is only entitled to book it if they know for sure they want that to be a physical check in day.

That’s why I said I can go in and book November 17th today and hold that room regardless of my intent, even though others might not like it.

 

[Tatebeck]

Again, an owner can not legallt be restricted from booking any room with their points.

The desired check in is referring to the desired check in date for the reservation…not the indivual.

I am indeed entitled to book a room and let it sit empty. DVC can not stop me from doing that.

Since we are now getting way off into the weeds…let’s try to take it back to what DVC might be able to do to have rules that allow flexibility that DVC is known for and stopping people from walking reservations to gain a booking advantage.

Okay but I'm still so confused. I never said that you personally have to go check into every reservation you make. Just that you have to be within 11 months of whatever date you want to make the reservation...

 

[Tatebeck]

I did misunderstand then. I thought you were saying that under the FCFS rule an owner is only entitled to book it if they know for sure they want that to be a physical check in day.

That’s why I said I can go in and book November 17th today and hold that room regardless of my intent, even though others might not like it.

Ah okay. No it just has to be a day you may actually want as a checkin day and be within 11 months. Not one you are grabbing to skirt the FCFS rules later

Would be silly to let it sit open empty for a whole reservation though!

 

[Sandisw]

Ah okay. No it just has to be a day you may actually want as a checkin day and be within 11 months. Not one you are grabbing to skirt the FCFS rules later

Would be silly to let it sit open empty for a whole reservation though!

And that is why even someone who decides to walk technically wanted the room that morning because it unlocked the next 7 days.

The purpose is definitely to gain an advantage over others but because of the way the rules are written that reason counts.