Are the Days of Walking a DVC Reservation Numbered?

[Tatebeck]

Except my contention is that DVC is applying something subjective to determine an owner’s intent if they are deciding that I didn’t want that when I booked.

Plus, as I said, if someone is breaking rule that is part of the home resort rules and regulations they have to be able to tell the owner what rule is broken, assuming that they want to cancel.

No one is arguing that walking is a way to take advantage of the current t rules, but noting in the rules prohibits unlimited modifications.

If DVC doesn’t want owners to be able to do that, then they need to include that in the rules and why they indicated last week they are open to reviewing the current rules to see if there is a change they can make that fixes it without causing other issues they don’t want to see happen.

The POS actually indicates that is expected. We, as owners, should expect the rules to be clear.

Many people upset about walking are upset because they believe DVC needs to change the rules to stop it…because the way it currently works…the rules/system…allows owners to use them to their advantage.

As you said, the rules are clear because it says the word “desired” check in day. But the only one who can say if what they booked ilwas desired or not is the owner.

Every owner who books a room, technically desires that day to be their check in day…they just change their mind later…

1st bold: Yes, it would be subjective which is why it is so hard to enforce the rules as they are. Disney would have to assume at which point it becomes too much of a detriment to other members on a case by case basis unless they do change some rules.

2nd bold: again the modification rules don't matter as far as breaking the rule, the first booking is what breaks or doesn't break the current rules. Now if they wanted to add a modification rule to limit the walking of reservations that have been made then that is definitely an option.

3rd bold: I am sure that is what they/we will all say if we are questioned about it!

 

[Chili327]

It would be much better if people just chose not to walk.

That is just a dream though, the world doesn't work that way, so DVC (something people pay for) is definitely not going to work that way. It would also be "much better" if people didn't commit crimes, but they do.

 

[Sandisw]

Your example is great but not for the reasons I think you offered it- it clearly shows how walking is not merely modifying reservations.

Walking doesn't work if you don't have your reservation end in the +7 dates. If it doesn't, then someone can block your reservations, since the +7 can't be used to start a reservation during your home resort period.

In addition, none of your travel dates overlap, so you have no guarantee that you would be able to get your desired unit each step of the way. Since you are allowing everyone to compete on equal footing every step of the way-intent is irrelevant.

It can work if I don’t do 7…here is how.

I go in and book November 1st to 5th…..then I change my mind the two days later and book November 3rd to 7th….whoops, that’s Jersey week… yeah, let’s do the 6th to the 12th because it’s my birthday.

You know what…I’ll miss some birthdays so let’s shift 11th to 18….etc and etc.

I can move my trip as long as it is done before the check out date.

The example was to show that only I, the owner, gets to decide mt intent when I booked. As long as I say it’s when I wanted to go but changed my mind, I hade followed the rules.

I’m sharing these examples as a way to show that it’s the unlimited modifications we are currently allowed that is what allows walking to work.

And why people have asked DVC to amend the rules to prevent it.

I am not bothered by walking but I just don’t want modifications to be severely limited because they are the best part of DVC for us.

I certainly have no issue if they want to find a way to make it more restrictive at the 11 month window to prevent me from actually doing my silly example…but as an owner, if that is what they want, it needs to be specific without a subjective nature to it.

 

[Sandisw]

1st bold: Yes, it would be subjective which is why it is so hard to enforce the rules as they are. Disney would have to assume at which point it becomes too much of a detriment to other members on a case by case basis unless they do change some rules.

2nd bold: again the modification rules don't matter as far as breaking the rule, the first booking is what breaks or doesn't break the current rules. Now if they wanted to add a modification rule to limit the walking of reservations that have been made then that is definitely an option.

3rd bold: I am sure that is what they/we will all say if we are questioned about it!

Except how does any booking break any rule? I go in and book November 17th to 20th today. what rule did I break?

What am I missing?

 

[dvcsince93]

I understand some people don’t like walking but saying this is just factually not true. If I walk past a room it opens up for someone else to use. The dates I walk past are always available for someone else who wants the room and I don’t block anyone from accessing it; just delays the booking. Ironically the only access I actually do deny is for the dates I am intending to stay.

What is not factually true is your rationale.

When you start to walk you know when the reservation window opens-8 am. Then you make a reservation that extends into the +7 period.

Depending on the length of your reservation, you can modify it anywhere from 1-6 days later , at any hour you choose. Only when you do, does a portion of the reservation release.

However, unlike you, I have no idea when the unit will open up from 1-6 days in the future. Moreover, because it is no longer in the +7 period, there is no guarantee that it will open (waitlists do exist). So the dates are not always available and if they are, you have no idea when they are available. (Unlike you who knows when it will be available.)

As opposed to competeing for reservations with everyone else, you give yourself a guarateed ability to get the dates you want while preventing everyone else from seeing the actual occupancy at their desired dates and stopping them from using the 11 +7 window. I can't make a reservation until you decide to release it even though you never intended to use it,

What is really sad is that you seem ok with screwing with my booking as long as it doesn't impact you. Once again, that is the definition of selfish.

 

[Chili327]

It can work if I don’t do 7…here is how.

I go in and book November 1st to 5th…..then I change my mind the two days later and book November 3rd to 7th….whoops, that’s Jersey week… yeah, let’s do the 6th to the 12th because it’s my birthday.

You know what…I’ll miss some birthdays so let’s shift 11th to 18….etc and etc.

I can move my trip as long as it is done before the check out date.

The example was to show that only I, the owner, gets to decide mt intent when I booked. As long as I say it’s when I wanted to go but changed my mind, I hade followed the rules.

I’m sharing these examples as a way to show that it’s the unlimited modifications we are currently allowed that is what allows walking to work.

And why people have asked DVC to amend the rules to prevent it.

I am not bothered by walking but I just don’t want modifications to be severely limited because they are the best part of DVC for us.

I certainly have no issue if they want to find a way to make it more restrictive at the 11 month window to prevent me from actually doing my silly example…but as an owner, if that is what they want, it needs to be specific without a subjective nature to it.

In the spirit of your example (which i completely agree with), members need to be able to move their dates as needed.
How many times do you think is really needed within the first month to be able to make changes... and Question #2 what is the minimum number of changes for a person to be able to walk a res?
Do those numbers give us a decent window or do they cross over?

 

[tx911]

That is just a dream though, the world doesn't work that way, so DVC (something people pay for) is definitely not going to work that way. It would also be "much better" if people didn't commit crimes, but they do.

I know, but look at what happened with DAS.

You had a bunch of people taking advantage of lax rules, and that eventually resulted in a lot tighter regulations to qualify, potentially degrading the product for the innocent that need it.

The same could easily happen with walking. Or renting, for that matter.

 

[Chili327]

What is not factually true is your rationale.

When you start to walk you know when the reservation window opens-8 am. Then you make a reservation that extends into the +7 period.

Depending on the length of your reservation, you can modify it anywhere from 1-6 days later , at any hour you choose. Only when you do, does a portion of the reservation release.

However, unlike you, I have no idea when the unit will open up from 1-6 days in the future. Moreover, because it is no longer in the +7 period, there is no guarantee that it will open (waitlists do exist). So the dates are not always available and if they are, you have no idea when they are available. (Unlike you who knows when it will be available.)

As opposed to competing for reservations with everyone else, you give yourself a guaranteed ability to get the dates you want while preventing everyone else from seeing the actual occupancy at their desired dates and stopping them from using the 11 +7 window. I can't make a reservation until you decide to release it even though you never intended to use it,

What is really sad is that you seem ok with screwing with my booking as long as it doesn't impact you. Once again, that is the definition of selfish.

We need a waiver wire.

 

[tx911]

In the spirit of your example (which i completely agree with), members need to be able to move their dates as needed.
How many times do you think is really needed within the first month to be able to make changes... and Question #2 what is the minimum number of changes for a person to be able to walk a res?
Do those numbers give us a decent window or do they cross over?

I think allowing 3-4 modifications to a reservation before requiring re-booking might be a good spot.

 

[Chili327]

I know, but look at what happened with DAS.

You had a bunch of people taking advantage of lax rules, and that eventually resulted in a lot tighter regulations to qualify, potentially degrading the product for the innocent that need it.

The same could easily happen with walking. Or renting, for that matter.

I agree 100% which is why Disney needs to tread lightly with any "rules" being added or enforced.

 

[Chili327]

I think allowing 3-4 modifications to a reservation before requiring re-booking might be a good spot.

Perfect, so is 4 modifications enough for someone to walk?

 

[tx911]

I agree 100% which is why Disney needs to tread lightly with any "rules" being added or enforced.

And likewise, member should tread lightly with taking advantage of lax rules.

 

[tx911]

Perfect, so is 4 modifications enough for someone to walk?

Yes, just not for long.

Probably everyone would do it if this were implemented, so it wouldn't be effective any more anyway.

 

[Sandisw]

In the spirit of your example (which i completely agree with), members need to be able to move their dates as needed.
How many times do you think is really needed within the first month to be able to make changes... and Question #2 what is the minimum number of changes for a person to be able to walk a res?
Do those numbers give us a decent window or do they cross over?

Currently, the rules allow you to modify and move the dates of a reservation as much and as often as you want based on points you have.

If you want a reservation to cross your UY, it requires a call to MS.

During the first month, I am going to guess that the majority if owners have a general idea of dates and don’t do a ton of changing.

But certainly times if the year, they might. I hate to keep using me, but i can flex the window that I like to visit WDW in early December, but I prefer the second week over the first or third.

My goal is to get RV (that is now for resort view since SV no longer exists), at RiV and VGF. So, I start with grabbing what I can during week one and then stalk, move, etc until I get what I want. I’d hate to lose that.

However, I do get that because of walking concerns at the 11 month window, that I might have to accept fewer changes or none during the first month of booking.

It’s a change I could live with. What would be a big negative to me is to have limits on modifications no matter when made.

That’s why I hope they don’t quantify the number of modifications No changes during the first month other than dropping days seems like a good compromise.

Beyond the first month, not sure we need to make sweeping changes because at that point everyone had an opportunity to try for what they want.

 

[Chili327]

Yes, just not for long.

Probably everyone would do it if this were implemented, so it wouldn't be effective any more anyway.

So if they allowed a max limit of 4 modifications in the 1st month (11th month), how would that pan out?

It would be a mad dash 4 weeks out from whenever the desired season or dates came up... would that even help?

 

[Tatebeck]

Except how does any booking break any rule? I go in and book November 17th to 20th today. what rule did I break?

What am I missing?

If at this point you are planning to use it, then you have broken no rules. If you were planning on walking it when making the reservation, it was against the rules.

If you make a reservation today, when you really have no desired check in date in the next 11 months, that booking is against the rules. When you have a desired check-in date AND it is within 11 months, then you are eligible to book for that trip

 

[Chili327]

Currently, the rules allow you to modify and move the dates of a reservation as much and as often as you want based on points you have.

If you want a reservation to cross your UY, it requires a call to MS.

During the first month, I am going to guess that the majority if owners have a general idea of dates and don’t do a ton of changing.

But certainly times if the year, they might. I hate to keep using me, but i can flex the window that I like to visit WDW in early December, but I prefer the second week over the first or third.

My goal is to get RV (that is now for resort view since SV no longer exists), at RiV and VGF. So, I start with grabbing what I can during week one and then stalk, move, etc until I get what I want. I’d hate to lose that.

However, I do get that because of walking concerns at the 11 month window, that I might have to accept fewer changes or none during the first month of booking.

It’s a change I could live with. What would be a big negative to me is to have limits on modifications no matter when made.

That’s why I hope they don’t quantify the number of modifications No changes during the first month other than dropping days seems like a good compromise.

Beyond the first month, not sure we need to make sweeping changes because at that point everyone had an opportunity to try for what they want.

Same question...

If they allowed a maximum on 4 modifications within the first month (11th month window), how would that workout, would it make any difference to regular members or to walkers?

 

[tx911]

So if they allowed a limit of 4 modifications in the 1st month (11th month), how would that pan out?

It would be a mad dash 4 weeks out from whenever the desired season or dates came up... would that even help?

Yes, but if everyone does it, the mad dash at 11 months will just get moved up 4 weeks. But the walking part would be ineffective because everyone is doing it.

 

[Chili327]

If at this point you are planning to use it, then you have broken no rules. If you were planning on walking it when making the reservation, it was against the rules.

If you make a reservation today, when you really have no desired check in date in the next 11 months, that booking is against the rules. When you have a desired check-in date AND it is within 11 months, then you are eligible to book for that trip

Good luck enforcing that. lol

 

[Sandisw]

I know, but look at what happened with DAS.

You had a bunch of people taking advantage of lax rules, and that eventually resulted in a lot tighter regulations to qualify, potentially degrading the product for the innocent that need it.

The same could easily happen with walking. Or renting, for that matter.

And that is a prime example that Disney had to change the rules in order for the program to work as intended.

They realized the the current rules and criteria they were using was too broad and allowed people to qualify that Disney never intended to qualify.

It wasn’t that CMs were approving people who they knew should not get it..it was a problem with the rules.

That is what is currently at issue…the actual rules allow walking because there is no rule that says you can’t make modifications as much as you want and that is why walking currently works the way it does.

Limit modifications in some way and walking is curbed.

There is no way that DVC can simply say they will cancel a reservation because they believe you booked it with bad intent.