Are average children

[Planogirl]

Everyone of our students who is not on an IEP or 504 is put on a PLP - a Personalized Learning Plan for each subject. The literacy teachers have 90 kids to put on PLPs.As an elective teacher I have 230 students to write plans for. I cheat and do a lot of cutting and pasting when I am writing the plans.

We have that type of thing at my place of employment too but in our case it's just a form that no one pays attention to. It sounds like your students have plans to follow but again no rule individual interaction to speak of. I don't see how it can be any other way with so many kids!

 

[Jeafl]

You do realize gifted kids often make fun of all those lowly average kids too? I see it everyday at work. "What? You're still on addition fact tables, I finished those in 2nd grade? hahahaha!" "That assignment is easy, I can't believe you are still working on it!" There is no exempt group when it comes to being made fun of at school. 99% of kids will be made fun of for something at some point./QUOTE]
There is more to this story and I believe this poster is playing both side of the fence.

I think this post is important to note. I see it in the classroom all the time. Some kids just have "that" personality that allows them to be easily picked on. My oldest daughter had tons of friends, was smart, firendly, etc. However, she was picked on because her jeans had creases from when I ironed them. I kid you not! If a kid wants to pick on another kid there will always be a reason.

I agree. The only way to make sure that each child's learning style is accomodated would be to either increase the number of teachers dramatically and divide classes accordingly or, homeschool kids and teach each child using their individual learning style. Neither option is feasible for most.

Very true. It will never happen in our lifetime unfortunately. The budget just isn't there.

 

[Deb in IA]

I still stand by my notion that every child deserves to have an individualized education plan that caters to their style of learning.

Isn't that called "homeschooling"?


Public education is, by definition, GROUP instruction. To have an individualized plan for every student would be impractical and impossible.

 

[monsterkitty]

We have that type of thing at my place of employment too but in our case it's just a form that no one pays attention to. It sounds like your students have plans to follow but again no rule individual interaction to speak of. I don't see how it can be any other way with so many kids!

We have to pay attention to the forms. We do not have traditional grade levels in our district any more, but rather levels. When a student shows proficiency in all standards at a level the student moves to the next level. We have hard working students who would be in 7th grade but are doing 12th grade math or literacy. When they finish the current levels they are in they will be taking math and English classes through the local community college we have partnered with. These student will leave high school with a 2 year associates degree. One of the local private universities is also looking to form a partnership with us.

We as teachers, students, and parents use the PLPs to set goals for the student for each learning standard they are working on. When the student finishes that standard we write a new standard for the new standard. We are now completely standards based.

To show proficiency at a level, the student must show proficiency 3 different ways on each standard in that level before they take an end-of-level test. The students must be at 80% proficiency on the test in order to move to the next level. If the student wants to be advanced at that level, all standards must be passed with a 93%.

This system is a ton of work for the teachers and support staff. However, if it benefits the student then it is worth it!

 

[dumboiu]

Isn't that called "homeschooling"?


Public education is, by definition, GROUP instruction. To have an individualized plan for every student would be impractical and impossible.

 

[Liberty Belle]

We have to pay attention to the forms. We do not have traditional grade levels in our district any more, but rather levels. When a student shows proficiency in all standards at a level the student moves to the next level. We have hard working students who would be in 7th grade but are doing 12th grade math or literacy. When they finish the current levels they are in they will be taking math and English classes through the local community college we have partnered with. These student will leave high school with a 2 year associates degree. One of the local private universities is also looking to form a partnership with us.

We as teachers, students, and parents use the PLPs to set goals for the student for each learning standard they are working on. When the student finishes that standard we write a new standard for the new standard. We are now completely standards based.

To show proficiency at a level, the student must show proficiency 3 different ways on each standard in that level before they take an end-of-level test. The students must be at 80% proficiency on the test in order to move to the next level. If the student wants to be advanced at that level, all standards must be passed with a 93%.

This system is a ton of work for the teachers and support staff. However, if it benefits the student then it is worth it!

That sounds wonderful! I wish they'd do that here. My son tests at mid 4th grade norm in math, but is doing nothing different than those who test at the norm for 2nd grade math. He's bored and has not learned a thing this year in math.

 

[Sadfeet]

My kids aren't to the age yet where the schools decide to apply labels to the children. However I know that, even if they don't meet the school's definition of "gifted" that they will each have certain traits/abilities that will help them excel in whatever it is they like to do.

When push comes to shove every kid is the same, good at some things, not so good at others. Is the kid who is "gifted" because he/she excels in math, really any better than the kid who is "average" in math, but "gifted" on the Soccer Field? With the proper motivation and training, each can go far in their field.

So the person who is a chemist and develops new disease fighting drugs or the person who is an engineer and develops clean energy sources is no more important to society than an awesome soccer player? Seriously?

 

[monsterkitty]

So the person who is a chemist and develops new disease fighting drugs or the person who is an engineer and develops clean energy sources is no more important to society than an awesome soccer player? Seriously?

Not what the poster was saying.

 

[plutotek]

So the person who is a chemist and develops new disease fighting drugs or the person who is an engineer and develops clean energy sources is no more important to society than an awesome soccer player?

In a word, NO. Have they made a more quantifiable contribution? Probably, but that doesn't make them more important than any other human being.

 

[s____!]

This makes me think of that one commercial, where the parents are talking about how their child's music teacher told them that she is very gifted when it comes to the instrument, and then they find out that the teacher is wayyy too loose with that term.
Average kids are still out there, disguised as "gifted." The problem is that teachers don't want to tell overprotective parents that their kids are morons (or even slightly less than average).

 

[MrsPete]

Just a question, what kind of teacher are you?

Regular classroom teacher -- high school level, having taught Inclusion classes for many years. Plenty of IEPs, loads of 504s. Lots of experience in that field.

...and that's why you really can't know if your child is average or gifted without a battery of normative IQ tests.

Disagree. Tests may be more precise, but it's not hard to figure out roughly where student fall - especially if they're your own and you live with them every day.

No, kids in our district have IEPs due to neurological and behavioral conditions. Many kids have IEPs under OHI (Other Health Impairment), which is what the kids with ADHD fall under. They can get the IEPs for that alone, without any learning disabilities.

Other Health Impaired kids do get 504s. For example, I had a kid a couple years ago who was very intelligent -- one of the good students who grew up with all the educational advantages that come with college-educated parents and an enriched environment -- but he was progressively losing his hearing. He went on to a prestigious college, though I don't remember what he studied. When he was in my class, he could still hear, although he had a hearing aid. He knew that the day would come that the hearing aid would become useless. His 504 said one thing: He sits on the front row of class. Common sense.

In fact, as a classroom teacher, I always take things like that as a bit of an insult. Why do I need a piece of paper and a committee to order me to sit the kid with hearing problems on the front row? Am I too stupid to realize his need? Or do they think I'm such a monster that I'd purposefully put him in the back? Is his mother too stupid to email me before the semesters begins to tell me that he has a special need? Things on this level really should just be left to the individual people involved.

And -- getting back to your comment -- learning disabilities are just one thing that IEPs cover.

I think this post is important to note. I see it in the classroom all the time. Some kids just have "that" personality that allows them to be easily picked on. My oldest daughter had tons of friends, was smart, firendly, etc. However, she was picked on because her jeans had creases from when I ironed them. I kid you not! If a kid wants to pick on another kid there will always be a reason.

You're right. "That" personality sort of crumples when picked on, which eggs on the antagonists. And it can be anything -- something as silly as whether her jeans are ironed. Once my daughter was picked on because her socks covered her ankles, and she begged me to buy her socks two inches shorter. It doesn't get much more foolish than that.

Average kids are still out there, disguised as "gifted." The problem is that teachers don't want to tell overprotective parents that their kids are morons (or even slightly less than average).

It comes along with the "everyone gets a soccer trophy" generation. We don't want to hurt anyone's feelings -- so we let them grow up thinking this way, and then the real world slaps them in the face.

 

[Tinijocaro]

Reg

And -- getting back to your comment -- learning disabilities are just one thing that IEPs cover. You're right. "That" personality sort of crumples when picked on, which eggs on the antagonists. And it can be anything -- something as silly as whether her jeans are ironed. Once my daughter was picked on because her socks covered her ankles, and she begged me to buy her socks two inches shorter. It doesn't get much more foolish than that. It comes along with the "everyone gets a soccer trophy" generation. We don't want to hurt anyone's feelings -- so we let them grow up thinking this way, and then the real world slaps them in the face.

Some people use "teasing" as a reason to circumcise their sons with the absence of any pressing medical need. If a kid is going to get picked on, he is going to get picked on-for anything.

 

[Goofyluver]

Other Health Impaired kids do get 504s. For example, I had a kid a couple years ago who was very intelligent -- one of the good students who grew up with all the educational advantages that come with college-educated parents and an enriched environment -- but he was progressively losing his hearing. He went on to a prestigious college, though I don't remember what he studied. When he was in my class, he could still hear, although he had a hearing aid. He knew that the day would come that the hearing aid would become useless. His 504 said one thing: He sits on the front row of class. Common sense.

In fact, as a classroom teacher, I always take things like that as a bit of an insult. Why do I need a piece of paper and a committee to order me to sit the kid with hearing problems on the front row? Am I too stupid to realize his need? Or do they think I'm such a monster that I'd purposefully put him in the back? Is his mother too stupid to email me before the semesters begins to tell me that he has a special need? Things on this level really should just be left to the individual people involved.

OHI kids CAN get 504's. They also can be placed on IEP's, which is different from what you said earlier in the thread.

The kid you describe in your above post didn't need an IEP, because he only needed accomodations in the classroom to compensate for his hearing impairment. He didn't need targeted goals for remediation on an IEP.

I do differ from you, and I am a special educator, in that I appreciate seeing things in writing. The truth is, if we don't put these down on paper, there are some teachers and/or educators who won't provide a child with needed accomodations or modifications in the classroom.

No, the mother isn't stupid. Instead, maybe she just wants to ensure her kid is getting what he needs in the classroom. A system of checks and balances shouldn't bother you at all as a teacher as long as you're doing what you're supposed to be doing.