AP's to get 20 FP+ per quarter

[mousermerf]

Very few guests will have an RFID AP before they get to WDW for (more or less) six months to a year after
they institute the program.

Your "reservations" would be associated with your name in the computer.
The RFID-ticket could be issued upon arrival.

The intention is to have the "room key" sent to the guest prior to arrival. Wristband or key card, depending on how they roll it out. The way your Disney account is setup, they will know you're an AP and have that associated to your wristband (you get to pick a color - and upcharge for special personalized designs).

They'll mail this to you, an deactivate your old AP or ticket stock if you're adding old MYW tickets or whatever in advance.

 

[mousermerf]

Which brings up a very interesting situation.

If I'm sitting at home 3 months before my pending 10-day trip (for which I have a "room-only" reservation) and I have not yet purchased ANY tickets in particular.

Can I make 4 FP+ reservations per day (40 FP+ ressies) for the trip the way that I can make as many ADR's for dining as I like?

What happens when I get there and decide to "upgrade" to an AP?
Can I still have all of my 40 FP+ reservations?
Would I have to wait to upgrade until my last day or two in order to keep
all my MYW FP+ reservations...

Is that "abuse?"

Will I then be penalized for becoming a repeat customer (AP holder) and not get nearly
the number of FP+ reservations on my subsequent trips?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

FP+ requires tickets on the account associated with the person. That's why there's that stipulation about MYW conversion. AP's are already recognized by the system.

 

[mousermerf]

All this talk of e-tickets brings back fond memories of the ticket books. The FP+ is going retro bringing us full circle. It looks we will be able to book a couple of e-ticket rides, a few c/d rides, and a few a,b, and other attractions. I am not saying it is better, but it does remind me of 1977.

And that is EXACTLY the guiding force in decision making. They've considered the change away from ticket books to have been a mistake since the day they did it. It's brought up at theme park and attraction design/operation conference every year and all the companies discuss ways to "overcome the all-ride-pass problem."

 

[Dizzytime]

I have nothing left to say. I'll leave you, permanently, with a sincere "Merry Christmas".

Merry Christmas to and your family, too, mesaboy2.

 

[mesaboy2]

And that is EXACTLY the guiding force in decision making. They've considered the change away from ticket books to have been a mistake since the day they did it. It's brought up at theme park and attraction design/operation conference every year and all the companies discuss ways to "overcome the all-ride-pass problem."

Isn't this the current business model for most theme parks now? Doesn't that imply this is a problem across the industry? Genuinely curious....

 

[mousermerf]

Isn't this the current business model for most theme parks now? Doesn't that imply this is a problem across the industry? Genuinely curious....

It is an industry-wide problem - and parks were separate ticket per ride until Disney did the unlimited ride pass when Epcot opened.

 

[mom2rtk]

When they had ticket books did they have a separate admission? Are you saying they would love to go to a system with a fat admission plus purchased ticket books (or a modern day equivilant).

 

[bcrook]

It is an industry-wide problem - and parks were separate ticket per ride until Disney did the unlimited ride pass when Epcot opened.

I am not sure I buy that. I didn't have to pay for ride tickets at silver dollar city in Branson in the 70's-80's. I rode Fire in the Hole over and over again.

But the concept of WDW thinking of ways to get their ride limits back is fascinating. FP+ sounds exactly like that.

 

[mesaboy2]

I am not sure I buy that. I didn't have to pay for ride tickets at silver dollar city in Branson in the 70's-80's. I rode Fire in the Hole over and over again.

But the concept of WDW thinking of ways to get their ride limits back is fascinating. FP+ sounds exactly like that.

Agree.

 

[bcrook]

When they had ticket books did they have a separate admission? Are you saying they would love to go to a system with a fat admission plus purchased ticket books (or a modern day equivilant).

We paid for admission to see the wonderful magic kingdom, and then bought ride tickets. Of course there was only one little park... We usually just spent one day.

 

[mousermerf]

When they had ticket books did they have a separate admission? Are you saying they would love to go to a system with a fat admission plus purchased ticket books (or a modern day equivilant).

Originally you had to buy a book with all the tickets which also granted admission. The rides also had a admit price you could pay cash to enter. That's DL's model, but you still needed a park admit ticket. It had a value of its own and I -think- could be purchased all by itself. Some rides had no tickets because they were sponsored. Adventure Thru Innerspace, for example. That's why Adventure Thru Innerspace is so widely known in nostalgia land.. it was free while not much else was. It's not that it was a particularly grand attraction.

Around the time of MK it was, if i recall, ticket books (book included admission ticket and transportation ticket for monorail) and the ability to buy tickets without the admission in groupings or even trade up lower level tickets to the higher level tickets.

When Epcot was preparing to open, there was even an included ticket to ride the monorail to Epcot's preview center at the Epcot monorail station - wander around the front gate of the park - and ride back to the TTC. Wonderful way to promote the park. When Epcot opened everything was sponsored.. so why have tickets?

They applied the same logic to the MK. Anyone who showed up with a book got an all-ride ticket swapped for it. This is also when the mag-strip tickets came into existence. Epcot's turnstiles were the first to have them. Once you were in, you were in and everything was open.

Epcot always operated this way, so there's no real data about how a A-B-C-D-E ticket system would alter guest patterns in the park. Magic Kingdom obviously did not.. and it's clear the crowd patterns changed. Smaller attractions lagged, and there became concerns over how to spread guests out.

Long lines in general helped spread people out to an extent. A long line would get people to not bother while they'd flock to short waits. But with the same number of people in a park...

Ticket Books: Moderate waits max at any attraction, attractions utilized at roughly the same rate across the park.

All-Ride: Long lines at e-tickets, moderate or short waits at other attractions.

Then in the late 90's FastPass was introduced to address "the top complaint of park guests" - "long lines." (Remember lines were never really long in the ticket book days.. There's a reason rides like Haunted Mansion and Jungle Cruise hastily constructed queue extensions.)

And that exacerbated the schism between e-tickets and other rides...

FP: Long long lines at e-tickets, ones that don't move much.. and short waits at other attractions.. several now walk-ons that had never been previously.

Disney knows this, the industry knows this (it's why Universal got rid of their FP for day-guests without the up-charge) and they want the old way back. They want guests spread out around the park more evenly.

 

[MAGICFOR2]

I consider myself an "average" AP holder as I pretty much visit the parks when there is a runDisney race, Star Wars Weekend, and maybe two or three other random day trips with friends. I stay on site 3-4 times a year for races, but otherwise, I just grab a friend in the morning and head out. I will be honest - I am skeptical of FP+ mostly because of the possibility of AP holders being shut out. I am not a morning person, and on day trips, we arrive at the parks around 10-11 and stay late. So as it is now, we are usually able to grab one of the last fast paces for the big rides, but if they are limited due to FP+, I can just wave goodbye to TSM. However...

1. I have to wonder if giving AP holders too many FP+ would cause issues with non used fast passes. I know, for myself, once ADRs had to booked so far in advance, I would often make an ADR for days like my birthday just in case I was able to go. I may do the same thing and book for 2 different Star Wars Weekends, not knowing which we would be attending. Or perhaps a Saturday and a Sunday not knowing which we would do. Would I end up doing the same with FP+? I'll be honest. I likely would. Of course, I always cancel any ADRs we don't need as soon as we find out the exact days, so hopefully we could do that with FP+ as well.

2. The idea of having 20 FP+, for me, is actually more appealing that regular FP. I am not a roller coaster girl. I will not go on anything worse than BTMRR. So if I am going to Epcot, I only need FP for Test Track and Soarin. HS only needs TSM. MK only needs BTMRR and maybe Peter Pan or Buzz Lightyear. AK only needs the Safari. I would actually find myself having to use up extra ones if it is 20 per quarter, 80 per year.

3. I could definitely see how this would still be irritating to those who live next door to Disney. Being 3 hours out, I still do some planning when I go. However, if you can wake up, see it's a beautiful day, and head out to the parks, only to find you have crazy wait times, I can see that being an issue.

So then we will have AP people collecting the unneeded FPs and standing on the sidewalk in front of the park scalping them, like at the football games.

 

[mousermerf]

And just a note on ticket-price inflation..

Epcot ticket's when it opened cost $15 per adult. Per WDI, at that time Epcot required 10,000 guest admits to cover the cost of daily operations and stay in the black (the actual number in the first year was wildly higher than this per day on average - Epcot has never been busier than it was the first year).

Epcot averages about 3x as many admits on a normal day now, at a rate that more than doubles the rate of inflation.. Ignoring the additions in staff for expansions, Epcot should need 10,000 guests at $34.50 per day... They get nearly 30k at $30 (low end of MYW breakdown per day) to $90 (high end) per day.

It's not just a matter of recouping costs better.. but they do want to be able to directly tie admission to ride performance. With ticket books, you could says "Snow White's Scary Adventure brings in $XXXXXX per day at $0.45 per ride."

 

[g-dad66]

But the concept of WDW thinking of ways to get their ride limits back is fascinating. FP+ sounds exactly like that.

This seems strangely contradictory to the trend of more interactive experiences designed to make the customer what to ride/see that same attraction over and over (e.g. Monsters Inc Laugh Floor, Toy Story Mania, Star Tours 2.0, new Test Track, Sum of All Thrills, Turtle Talk).

At least I thought that was the aim of the newer, more interactive experiences.

 

[mesaboy2]

Originally you had to buy a book with all the tickets which also granted admission. The rides also had a admit price you could pay cash to enter. That's DL's model, but you still needed a park admit ticket. It had a value of its own and I -think- could be purchased all by itself. Some rides had no tickets because they were sponsored. Adventure Thru Innerspace, for example. That's why Adventure Thru Innerspace is so widely known in nostalgia land.. it was free while not much else was. It's not that it was a particularly grand attraction.

Around the time of MK it was, if i recall, ticket books (book included admission ticket and transportation ticket for monorail) and the ability to buy tickets without the admission in groupings or even trade up lower level tickets to the higher level tickets.

When Epcot was preparing to open, there was even an included ticket to ride the monorail to Epcot's preview center at the Epcot monorail station - wander around the front gate of the park - and ride back to the TTC. Wonderful way to promote the park. When Epcot opened everything was sponsored.. so why have tickets?

They applied the same logic to the MK. Anyone who showed up with a book got an all-ride ticket swapped for it. This is also when the mag-strip tickets came into existence. Epcot's turnstiles were the first to have them. Once you were in, you were in and everything was open.

Epcot always operated this way, so there's no real data about how a A-B-C-D-E ticket system would alter guest patterns in the park. Magic Kingdom obviously did not.. and it's clear the crowd patterns changed. Smaller attractions lagged, and there became concerns over how to spread guests out.

Long lines in general helped spread people out to an extent. A long line would get people to not bother while they'd flock to short waits. But with the same number of people in a park...

Ticket Books: Moderate waits max at any attraction, attractions utilized at roughly the same rate across the park.

All-Ride: Long lines at e-tickets, moderate or short waits at other attractions.

Then in the late 90's FastPass was introduced to address "the top complaint of park guests" - "long lines." (Remember lines were never really long in the ticket book days.. There's a reason rides like Haunted Mansion and Jungle Cruise hastily constructed queue extensions.)

And that exacerbated the schism between e-tickets and other rides...

FP: Long long lines at e-tickets, ones that don't move much.. and short waits at other attractions.. several now walk-ons that had never been previously.

Disney knows this, the industry knows this (it's why Universal got rid of their FP for day-guests without the up-charge) and they want the old way back. They want guests spread out around the park more evenly.

And as a side note--as I'm sure you know--same with If You Had Wings, sponsored by Eastern.

 

[Missyrose]

Originally you had to buy a book with all the tickets which also granted admission. The rides also had a admit price you could pay cash to enter. That's DL's model, but you still needed a park admit ticket. It had a value of its own and I -think- could be purchased all by itself. Some rides had no tickets because they were sponsored. Adventure Thru Innerspace, for example. That's why Adventure Thru Innerspace is so widely known in nostalgia land.. it was free while not much else was. It's not that it was a particularly grand attraction.

Around the time of MK it was, if i recall, ticket books (book included admission ticket and transportation ticket for monorail) and the ability to buy tickets without the admission in groupings or even trade up lower level tickets to the higher level tickets.

When Epcot was preparing to open, there was even an included ticket to ride the monorail to Epcot's preview center at the Epcot monorail station - wander around the front gate of the park - and ride back to the TTC. Wonderful way to promote the park. When Epcot opened everything was sponsored.. so why have tickets?

They applied the same logic to the MK. Anyone who showed up with a book got an all-ride ticket swapped for it. This is also when the mag-strip tickets came into existence. Epcot's turnstiles were the first to have them. Once you were in, you were in and everything was open.

Epcot always operated this way, so there's no real data about how a A-B-C-D-E ticket system would alter guest patterns in the park. Magic Kingdom obviously did not.. and it's clear the crowd patterns changed. Smaller attractions lagged, and there became concerns over how to spread guests out.

Long lines in general helped spread people out to an extent. A long line would get people to not bother while they'd flock to short waits. But with the same number of people in a park...

Ticket Books: Moderate waits max at any attraction, attractions utilized at roughly the same rate across the park.

All-Ride: Long lines at e-tickets, moderate or short waits at other attractions.

Then in the late 90's FastPass was introduced to address "the top complaint of park guests" - "long lines." (Remember lines were never really long in the ticket book days.. There's a reason rides like Haunted Mansion and Jungle Cruise hastily constructed queue extensions.)

And that exacerbated the schism between e-tickets and other rides...

FP: Long long lines at e-tickets, ones that don't move much.. and short waits at other attractions.. several now walk-ons that had never been previously.

Disney knows this, the industry knows this (it's why Universal got rid of their FP for day-guests without the up-charge) and they want the old way back. They want guests spread out around the park more evenly.

This is all really interesting and gives the new system some possible context. But my question is this: If FP+ makes the e-ticket rides less accessible and adding FP+ will make some of the lesser attraction lines longer, where is the net add for Disney guests? Is it literally just the ONE reserved FP per day for an E-ticket ride?

 

[mousermerf]

This is all really interesting and gives the new system some possible context. But my question is this: If FP+ makes the e-ticket rides less accessible and adding FP+ will make some of the lesser attraction lines longer, where is the net add for Disney guests? Is it literally just the ONE reserved FP per day for an E-ticket ride?

That's the intention.

Shorter lines at E-tickets (if you use FP+ for it, ridiculously long line without - an "opt out" level line without FP+), longer lines at mid-level rides (the ones that are adding FP+ but "don't need it" as many would say - as people opting into FP+ will be assigned secondary attractions whether they want them or not) and then the "Freebies" will get more people.. not sure if that means "long lines" or just "lines" since most of them are walk-ons now.

 

[bcrook]

Originally you had to buy a book with all the tickets which also granted admission. The rides also had a admit price you could pay cash to enter. That's DL's model, but you still needed a park admit ticket. It had a value of its own and I -think- could be purchased all by itself. Some rides had no tickets because they were sponsored. Adventure Thru Innerspace, for example. That's why Adventure Thru Innerspace is so widely known in nostalgia land.. it was free while not much else was. It's not that it was a particularly grand attraction.

Around the time of MK it was, if i recall, ticket books (book included admission ticket and transportation ticket for monorail) and the ability to buy tickets without the admission in groupings or even trade up lower level tickets to the higher level tickets.

When Epcot was preparing to open, there was even an included ticket to ride the monorail to Epcot's preview center at the Epcot monorail station - wander around the front gate of the park - and ride back to the TTC. Wonderful way to promote the park. When Epcot opened everything was sponsored.. so why have tickets?

They applied the same logic to the MK. Anyone who showed up with a book got an all-ride ticket swapped for it. This is also when the mag-strip tickets came into existence. Epcot's turnstiles were the first to have them. Once you were in, you were in and everything was open.

Epcot always operated this way, so there's no real data about how a A-B-C-D-E ticket system would alter guest patterns in the park. Magic Kingdom obviously did not.. and it's clear the crowd patterns changed. Smaller attractions lagged, and there became concerns over how to spread guests out.

Long lines in general helped spread people out to an extent. A long line would get people to not bother while they'd flock to short waits. But with the same number of people in a park...

Ticket Books: Moderate waits max at any attraction, attractions utilized at roughly the same rate across the park.

All-Ride: Long lines at e-tickets, moderate or short waits at other attractions.

Then in the late 90's FastPass was introduced to address "the top complaint of park guests" - "long lines." (Remember lines were never really long in the ticket book days.. There's a reason rides like Haunted Mansion and Jungle Cruise hastily constructed queue extensions.)

And that exacerbated the schism between e-tickets and other rides...

FP: Long long lines at e-tickets, ones that don't move much.. and short waits at other attractions.. several now walk-ons that had never been previously.

Disney knows this, the industry knows this (it's why Universal got rid of their FP for day-guests without the up-charge) and they want the old way back. They want guests spread out around the park more evenly.

Allears had a good price breakdown over the years. Tickets

 

[MAGICFOR2]

Originally you had to buy a book with all the tickets which also granted admission. The rides also had a admit price you could pay cash to enter. That's DL's model, but you still needed a park admit ticket. It had a value of its own and I -think- could be purchased all by itself. Some rides had no tickets because they were sponsored. Adventure Thru Innerspace, for example. That's why Adventure Thru Innerspace is so widely known in nostalgia land.. it was free while not much else was. It's not that it was a particularly grand attraction.

Around the time of MK it was, if i recall, ticket books (book included admission ticket and transportation ticket for monorail) and the ability to buy tickets without the admission in groupings or even trade up lower level tickets to the higher level tickets.

When Epcot was preparing to open, there was even an included ticket to ride the monorail to Epcot's preview center at the Epcot monorail station - wander around the front gate of the park - and ride back to the TTC. Wonderful way to promote the park. When Epcot opened everything was sponsored.. so why have tickets?

They applied the same logic to the MK. Anyone who showed up with a book got an all-ride ticket swapped for it. This is also when the mag-strip tickets came into existence. Epcot's turnstiles were the first to have them. Once you were in, you were in and everything was open.

Epcot always operated this way, so there's no real data about how a A-B-C-D-E ticket system would alter guest patterns in the park. Magic Kingdom obviously did not.. and it's clear the crowd patterns changed. Smaller attractions lagged, and there became concerns over how to spread guests out.

Long lines in general helped spread people out to an extent. A long line would get people to not bother while they'd flock to short waits. But with the same number of people in a park...

Ticket Books: Moderate waits max at any attraction, attractions utilized at roughly the same rate across the park.

All-Ride: Long lines at e-tickets, moderate or short waits at other attractions.

Then in the late 90's FastPass was introduced to address "the top complaint of park guests" - "long lines." (Remember lines were never really long in the ticket book days.. There's a reason rides like Haunted Mansion and Jungle Cruise hastily constructed queue extensions.)

And that exacerbated the schism between e-tickets and other rides...

FP: Long long lines at e-tickets, ones that don't move much.. and short waits at other attractions.. several now walk-ons that had never been previously.

Disney knows this, the industry knows this (it's why Universal got rid of their FP for day-guests without the up-charge) and they want the old way back. They want guests spread out around the park more evenly.

I know this makes sense from a business perspective, and I think I would even welcome the book if it meant you could have a ticket for everything without long waits. But with the FP+ they are not including all the E tickets only a couple on each list, so they are forcing you to choose between geting a FP for each "good" ride or only getting to ride a few with the FP+. Their attempt to decide what people should enjoy makes me a little mad.

 

[mousermerf]

I know this makes sense from a business perspective, and I think I would even welcome the book if it meant you could have a ticket for everything without long waits. But with the FP+ they are not including all the E tickets only a couple on each list, so they are forcing you to choose between geting a FP for each "good" ride or only getting to ride a few with the FP+. Their attempt to decide what people should enjoy makes me a little mad.

Ticket books never gave you enough tickets to ride all the e-tickets.