AP sales…

[WB1971]

I had a great 20 year run. If it's over, it's over. I'll get over it. And make a good profit to spend doing something else.

Just sad here because we started with DVC in late 2017 after years of cash stays, and then moved to FL late 2019 to be able to visit whenever we wanted. That dream died real quick.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Just sad here because we started with DVC in late 2017 after years of cash stays, and then moved to FL late 2019 to be able to visit whenever we wanted. That dream died real quick.

And to think how close we were to doing just that only a year or so ago.

We were classic 'die hards.' We've had 25+ years of vacations at WDW, of which 15+ have been with DVC. Much of the last 15 years averaging 3-5 week-long trips per year, where an AP is a necessity. I've been through some of the best years WDW ever had to offer. I've seen some great change, but not in the last 5-7 years. Oh there's been change, but aside from a ride here and there; most of it has not been good. When I say that WDW is not what it used to be, it usually receives a response along the lines of, "Well, of course it's not." That's not what I mean. It's not what it used to be and for all the wrong reasons. They've screwed it up. About 10 years ago, it had hit about borderline perfect. FP+ was right. Prices were high, but what we had come to expect in a theme park. Crowds were there, but you could find a 'slacker' time if you really wanted to. People were more 'casual,' and I'm not just talking bout CMs. People went to enjoy their vacations and be more relaxed about it. Nowadays, it seems that people are hell-bent on getting every ounce they can out of every minute and every dollar because of the excessive dollars they have spent and are spending, others be damned in the process. This whole vacationer attitude "It's all about me." is getting a little long of tooth also, and it's especially bad on top of everything else.

It is what it is. But it ain't what it was. Eventually you have to know when it's time to fold. As I said above, we had a great run. It may not be over, but if it is, we had it mostly on somebody else's quarter when I cash out and all is said and done, and while I will be sad if and when that day comes; it sure didn't end up being a bad run while it lasted.

 

[Sandisw]

Just sad here because we started with DVC in late 2017 after years of cash stays, and then moved to FL late 2019 to be able to visit whenever we wanted. That dream died real quick.

And, I think you still will be able to do that! It may just require some different planning and adjustments. As I said, I definitely think some level of AP will be back.

If it is not, we have decided to adjust...no more popping into a park just for dinner or shopping. We may no longer do a park hopper option and choose a park for each trip.

I have been an a few trips that included no parks, and I enjoyed them just as much as park ones so I think there will be a way for us to still enjoy things!

 

[lowlight]

While I don't have a crystal ball (no one does), my educated guess tells me even if they do sunset annual passes in their current form they will do something else for bulk price gate admissions. You might like it even more! Who knows? They will consider infrequent travelers, frequent locals, DVC owners, offsite avid Disney fans, the seniors or disabled who cannot tolerate a whole day in a park, special mobility needs, and many more groups. It is a complicated thing driven some by profit of the guest types, but also by more than that. Today's fans that buy DVC (often families) also raise tomorrow's fans. No better way to pass on family values and traditions. Not time to worry yet. They will tweak and adjust. It is an endless process.

I disagree, now is the time to worry and also the time to be vocal. It’s also the time to gnash your teeth and tell them you intend to leave (for those of us who truly do) if they change it negatively. Waiting to complain until the change has happened is strategically a poor choice.

 

[BamaGuy44]

Just months ago, these boards were doing math with a decade worth of "discounts" on APs to justify buying direct and "break even." It was the most important perk. Now, everyone is acting like nobody wanted an AP anyway, and you don't care if it's completely gone.

If there's no AP, I'm out. I'm completely out on Disney. And I'm not the only one thinking like this. I'm planning multiple trips for the summer, because it might be our last at Disney. If they want full price ticket payers only, fine. Maybe I'll see you again in a few years at the Halloween party and I'll rent some points for a night at Poly tower.

Cool thing about buying resale is this is easy to reverse.

But for every person like you, there are plenty like me, who have been going once or twice a year for 20+ years and never had an AP. How many of each are there? I have no idea but Disney does and they'll make their calculations accordingly. It's no different than every other aspect of DVC. Super important to some, while others couldn't care less about it. I do hope they come back because it's ridiculous that Disney would be the only theme parks in the world not offering and annual pass for non residents. And I think they'll come back some time this year.

 

[Miffy]

Think about this: For every one of you who owns DVC there are probably a lot of other Disney fans like me, who never bought DVC, live out of state, stay onsite and live in the Disney bubble, and usually purchase an AP. I think I've had only a few months in the last 15+ years when I didn't have an AP.

For years I used bounceback to book my next trip--or 2 trips. Since WDW reopened, there's no bounceback. However, there are still AP discounts, and I've been using them. I never would have taken the last trip I took (1st week of March) without it.

Disney is clearly making money off me and my sister, who's my usual traveling companion.

If they eliminated APs altogether, our 2 or sometimes 3 trips a year wouldn't happen. We'd probably come once.

Does Disney want to lose guests like us? Maybe in the grand scheme, we don't account for big revenue for them, but we are the diehards who can always be depended on . . . assuming the experience doesn't become untenable or unaffordable.

 

[Sandisw]

Think about this: For every one of you who owns DVC there are probably a lot of other Disney fans like me, who never bought DVC, live out of state, stay onsite and live in the Disney bubble, and usually purchase an AP. I think I've had only a few months in the last 15+ years when I didn't have an AP.

For years I used bounceback to book my next trip--or 2 trips. Since WDW reopened, there's no bounceback. However, there are still AP discounts, and I've been using them. I never would have taken the last trip I took (1st week of March) without it.

Disney is clearly making money off me and my sister, who's my usual traveling companion.

If they eliminated APs altogether, our 2 or sometimes 3 trips a year wouldn't happen. We'd probably come once.

Does Disney want to lose guests like us? Maybe in the grand scheme, we don't account for big revenue for them, but we are the diehards who can always be depended on . . . assuming the experience doesn't become untenable or unaffordable.

I don’t think there are any specific guests they want to lose.

But, this is an example that there are lots of different groups who use and want APs

So, it’s a balancing act for DPEP in trying to figure it all out.

That’s why I have always said DVC owners are no more or less important than guests like you or FL residents who benefit from having them.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

<Laughs> Okay. Properly refuted. But, perhaps their "new" system shouldn't be one that angers their passholders so much.

Oh, I am in complete agreement that the change they made is not an ideal change (That's being PC about it). Not the change I would have done, certainly. In hindsight, maybe not even the change that Disney would have done. I am just saying that the argument of "we have been doing it for 60 years, so we don't need to change it" is invalid. But yeah - what you change it TO matters. LOL.

If there's no AP, I'm out. I'm completely out on Disney. And I'm not the only one thinking like this.

I do not think that you are the only one who thinks this way. I think if APs do not come back, a lot of people will be out. Not a MAJORITY - but as others have pointed out, a turnover of even 5% is significant. I am not sure I would be out on that alone. I have other concerns right now with Disney - mostly with the corporate's political attitudes - but let's not get into that right now. Just suffice it to say, IF I leave, it won't be over AP's alone. I think eventually they will come back - but I do not know if it will be in time to save some of those thinking of leaving.

Not time to worry yet. They will tweak and adjust. It is an endless process.

This is my mantra. You have to remember (and many on here chose not to) that Disney is an ever-fluid environment. They tweak, fiddle and fuss. As a corporation, they are almost never stagnant. You may not always see the tweaks - many of them are in background algorithms - which is why I think it's funny how messed up people are over G+. You are seeing one stage in a many stage process and it will look different a year from now, 2 years from now and 5 years from now. DVC is a long term prospect. Making drastic decisions during a single stage is generally not making the best decision. That said if the TRAJECTORY is wrong for you, then it's wrong. Time to sell and move on.

I have some trepidation myself as mentioned above, but also as mentioned, Disney CHANGES.... So I am content to give it a little more time and see what trajectory they follow.

People were more 'casual,' and I'm not just talking bout CMs. People went to enjoy their vacations and be more relaxed about it. Nowadays, it seems that people are hell-bent on getting every ounce they can out of every minute and every dollar because of the excessive dollars they have spent and are spending, others be damned in the process. This whole vacationer attitude "It's all about me." is getting a little long of tooth also, and it's especially bad on top of everything else.

It is what it is. But it ain't what it was. Eventually you have to know when it's time to fold. As I said above, we had a great run. It may not be over, but if it is, we had it mostly on somebody else's quarter when I cash out and all is said and done, and while I will be sad if and when that day comes; it sure didn't end up being a bad run while it lasted.

You know the entire board knows you and I do not always see eye to eye. I have a hard time staring down a zebra in the best of circumstances. They kick... hard. But I COMPLETELY identify with you on the these 2 paragraphs.

It's not JUST Disney that has changed. It's PEOPLE. I know you were talking more about the attitude of trying to get in front of everyone, but it's more than that. It's just general..... attitude of being on vacation.

People were polite. They were low key. It doesn't seem that long ago... Maybe I have aged, I don't know. I mean I have, but I guess maybe I am more ornery. Years ago, I would let someone in front of me. If I held open a door, they would usually walk in and then let me in front of them in line since I was there first. Or maybe I would politely decline and tell them to go first. I used to TALK to people. STRANGERS. IN LINE. HEAVEN FORBID. When waiting for a parade, we would chat to while away the hour or so that we were sitting. I have great pictures of my 5 yr old son cuddled up with a really cute snow white asleep on the bench waiting for fireworks. I could have a great day at Disney - ironically - while doing very little but sitting around and talking with other vacationers while we waiting for things.

This last trip, DW and I were waiting for Smugglers Run. Since it takes 6 people to properly fly the ship, we tried making friends with the people in front of us - also just 2. No go. They wanted nothing to do with talking to anyone else. We tried the group behind us - a group of 3. No go - WHY ARE YOU TALKING TO US? WE DON'T KNOW YOU. These days, if I had a 5 yr old son and he fell asleep next to a little girl on a bench, I am pretty sure there would be screams associated with it and maybe security stepping in.

It's not just Disney, it's PEOPLE. People have changed. People on vacation have changed. Or maybe I have. I don't know.

As you say, it's been a good run. I don't know if it's over for me. I have not folded my hand yet. But for the first time, I am wondering if I am okay with the trajectory Disney is taking as a company. That's got nothing to do with people. But I will admit that the most recent vacations have not been the vacations of times past. I can't say it's all Disney's fault. Certainly some of it is. Selling DVC though... right now, that's an emotional decision. I need to wait till it's not an emotional one because emotions change. But if it's the right decision for you, I understand where you are coming from.

 

[redboat45]

Disney needs to remember who kept them afloat after 9/11 and 2008. It was the passholders. We are heading into another MAJOR recession and day guests etc. won't be visiting much after this initial "we are out of quarantine" visits happen. If there are no AP's, there will be no one to keep them afloat.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Disney needs to remember who kept them afloat after 9/11 and 2008. It was the passholders. We are heading into another MAJOR recession and day guests etc. won't be visiting much after this initial "we are out of quarantine" visits happen. If there are no AP's, there will be no one to keep them afloat.

Janet Jackson said it best. THAT is today's disney.

 

[CraigInPA]

While I don't have a crystal ball (no one does), my educated guess tells me even if they do sunset annual passes in their current form they will do something else for bulk price gate admissions. You might like it even more! Who knows? They will consider infrequent travelers, frequent locals, DVC owners, offsite avid Disney fans, the seniors or disabled who cannot tolerate a whole day in a park, special mobility needs, and many more groups. It is a complicated thing driven some by profit of the guest types, but also by more than that. Today's fans that buy DVC (often families) also raise tomorrow's fans. No better way to pass on family values and traditions. Not time to worry yet. They will tweak and adjust. It is an endless process.

To the point where they can look at your past purchase history (provided by magic band use, and the use of discounts) to determine whether you are an "A" guest who goes to the front of the line because you spend a lot of money on Genie+, souvenirs, and food, or a "Z" guest who is allowed in only on low volume days because you have an AP and don't spend a dime in the parks.

 

[bwvBound]

This last trip, DW and I were waiting for Smugglers Run. Since it takes 6 people to properly fly the ship, we tried making friends with the people in front of us - also just 2. No go. They wanted nothing to do with talking to anyone else. We tried the group behind us - a group of 3. No go - WHY ARE YOU TALKING TO US? WE DON'T KNOW YOU.

That is so sad! I talk with everyone around us at DL/DCA. Yes, we've made "new friends" in line for Smuggler's Run talking strategy and building a team. Isn't that why we go to the parks? To smile at strangers, to chat in long lines, to share in our common love of all-things-Disney-parks?? Really ... isn't that why we are there??

Edited to add: In a recent visit to DL, hubby and I split up when picking up our mobile order lunch. He went to secure a table, I stood in line for pickup. The fellow ahead of me started a conversation with me ... and my husband just watched and marveled. When I reached the table with our lunch, hubby asked, "So did you learn his wife's name?" No, but I did learn where she was born, how many were in their family, where his parents currently live, and a whole lot more. It was a lovely, spontaneous conversation! Again -- to enjoy everyone around us -- isn't that why we are there??

Edited again to add to my last line above: And, by extension, isn't that why we are all here on this board ... ??

 

[RoseGold]

But for every person like you, there are plenty like me, who have been going once or twice a year for 20+ years and never had an AP. How many of each are there? I have no idea but Disney does and they'll make their calculations accordingly. It's no different than every other aspect of DVC. Super important to some, while others couldn't care less about it.

It's so weird to me that everyone was all over that OMG AP discount, and now I'm the only cheapskate who seems to care if they get rid of APs completely. I'd guess there are plenty of DVC members who use APs to go on multiple trips a year. Maybe they're die hards who will pay full price? That's what Chapek wants!

 

[CarolMN]

It's so weird to me that everyone was all over that OMG AP discount, and now I'm the only cheapskate who seems to care if they get rid of APs completely. I'd guess there are plenty of DVC members who use APs to go on multiple trips a year. Maybe they're die hards who will pay full price? That's what Chapek wants!

You're definitely not the only "cheapskate". I think it's just that many of us believe some form of APs will eventually come back. I'm counting on that!

 

[DduzDis]

You're definitely not the only "cheapskate". I think it's just that many of us believe some form of APs will eventually come back. I'm counting on that!

This is where I am. I was also able to renew ours so we still have them. But, if they were to go away altogether it could be the end for us unless we rented and used the $$ somewhere else. However, I do believe they will be continued in some fashion (but it may not be pretty).

 

[TiggerBouncy]

That is so sad! I talk with everyone around us at DL/DCA. Yes, we've made "new friends" in line for Smuggler's Run talking strategy and building a team. Isn't that why we go to the parks? To smile at strangers, to chat in long lines, to share in our common love of all-things-Disney-parks?? Really ... isn't that why we are there??

Edited to add: In a recent visit to DL, hubby and I split up when picking up our mobile order lunch. He went to secure a table, I stood in line for pickup. The fellow ahead of me started a conversation with me ... and my husband just watched and marveled. When I reached the table with our lunch, hubby asked, "So did you learn his wife's name?" No, but I did learn where she was born, how many were in their family, where his parents currently live, and a whole lot more. It was a lovely, spontaneous conversation! Again -- to enjoy everyone around us -- isn't that why we are there??

Edited again to add to my last line above: And, by extension, isn't that why we are all here on this board ... ??

See, and that's how I am. It's NOT EVERYONE. In Oct '20, we had lunch at Woody's. There were no tables. DW grabbed one. I noticed a person with a cane who was trying to find a place to sit and we invited him and his DW to join us. We all shared a table and a nice conversation. IT HAPPENS.

Matter of fact, our last trip there we met a 3 generation family in the airport here at Dallas going to WDW. We talked most of the way down to Orlando. We ran into the same family on the same flight on the way back. Had a terrific time talking to the kids about what they did.

But it more and more happens now that people will just as soon push past you, shove past you, step over you, and in all other ways ignore you or view you as an obstacle. Same Feb trip, I was stuck in an ECV - first time in my life. I was shocked at the number of kids and young adults who LITERALLY vaulted over the front of the ECV while it was in motion to cut in front.

Like I said, it could be me... but it seems more common now (or maybe it's just my addled memory). It seems like even as much as 5 or 10 years ago, people were much different when on vacation. More likely to help each other, talk to each other, be friendly.

Am I wrong?

 

[philbrody]

Feels like I should be doing this in Vegas but....... Family of 4 right now with Platinum passes expiring mid May. Looks like we can renew but only at the incredi-pass level. We are year on/year off with AP's historically (Late summer for 8 days, F&W for 5 days, MLK 4 days, then early summer 8 days). The passes got off schedule due to the pandemic but next trip in Jan of 2023 and we'll move to Jan-Jan year on-off cycles. We only really need a sorcerer pass. Opinions on:
1. Bite the bullet and renew now even though not needed for 6 months because when passes come back prices are going up
2. Hold off and wait for vouchers at the sorcerer pass level that can start in Jan and risk no pass
3. Attempt to call an see if a renewal can happen at a sorcerer pass level

 

[wnielsen1]

Feels like I should be doing this in Vegas but....... Family of 4 right now with Platinum passes expiring mid May. Looks like we can renew but only at the incredi-pass level. We are year on/year off with AP's historically (Late summer for 8 days, F&W for 5 days, MLK 4 days, then early summer 8 days). The passes got off schedule due to the pandemic but next trip in Jan of 2023 and we'll move to Jan-Jan year on-off cycles. We only really need a sorcerer pass. Opinions on:
1. Bite the bullet and renew now even though not needed for 6 months because when passes come back prices are going up
2. Hold off and wait for vouchers at the sorcerer pass level that can start in Jan and risk no pass
3. Attempt to call an see if a renewal can happen at a sorcerer pass level

You should be able to downgrade to a sorcerer pass if you are eligible (blue card). You have to call MS.

 

[CarolynFH]

3. Attempt to call an see if a renewal can happen at a sorcerer pass level

You should be able to downgrade to a sorcerer pass if you are eligible (blue card). You have to call MS.

I agree - you can call MS and renew at the Sorcerer level, if you're eligible for Membership Extras. There's no requirement to renew at the level you currently have.

 

[BamaGuy44]

It's so weird to me that everyone was all over that OMG AP discount, and now I'm the only cheapskate who seems to care if they get rid of APs completely. I'd guess there are plenty of DVC members who use APs to go on multiple trips a year. Maybe they're die hards who will pay full price? That's what Chapek wants!

The same amount of people care as before, same number of cheapskates. It's just that when Disney dropped this bomb about suspending AP sales, naturally the people who want/need the ability to buy APs were the ones upset and posting about it more, so it skewed the discussion that way. And I don't think there are too many of us who believe they won't be coming back. I certainly think they will, but they've surprised me before.