AP sales…

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Received a survey from our just completed trip and lack of AP's was an option for why we were going to Universal instead. The park pass system was also an option.
Wouldn’t it be awesome if They looked at the surveys

i can say where I work customer satisfaction surveys matter but only if trends appear. id expect Disney is the same so hopefully lacking ap becomes a trend concern for Disney
 
I'm not usually one to prognosticate (although my prediction of VGF2 as the next DVC was dead on), but let's look at the issues regarding APs:

2. AP's sold to non-FL and CA residents are relatively small in number. They exist for the die hard Disney fans, which is a tiny number, and DVC members, which is a larger number.

The non-DVC die hard fans are coming and staying, likely on site, for multiple trips or for very long trips (as we've seen with non-US users of this board). I don't think we can even guess as to what the behavior of the die hard fans are regarding revenue in park, since one can make the argument that die hard fans already probably own every souvenir, but the counter argument that new souvenirs come out monthly can quash that. I think it's safe to say that the die hard fan probably isn't staying or dining off site. So, their incremental revenue is probably close to, if not greater than, the "average" person who comes for a week and buys individual passes. The difference is their theme park admission price. Realistically, the theme park admission price is a smallish fraction of the entire trip considering the price of Disney lodging, food, and souvenirs. The numbers of passes sold in this category, and the iffiness of the revenue model, probably mean this will remain available, but only as an Incredipass.

The DVC members get a discount. DVC leverages that discount to sell direct contracts. DVC members aren't paying for Disney lodging. DVC members may or may not be paying for Disney food and souvenirs. DVC members are the "lower revenue customers" that Chapek would like to curtail in the park. But, the trade-off between the cash coming in from DVD/DVC and the lower revenue in the park isn't clearly defined. If DVC eliminates AP discounts, would that push people toward resale? Would it de-value DVC's direct sale pricing? If DVC owners don't have AP's, would they buy a lower number of individual days in the Disney parks (I did on my recent trip) and *gasp* go to Universal or SeaWorld instead? If those people in the 1000+ DVC rooms at 95% utilization suddenly stopped going to Disney parks, "gate figures" would fall (see #1 above). In addition to the falling gate figures, Disney would also suffer from the loss of ancillary revenue (e.g., I ate lunch at Universal, instead of having lunch at Disney). I believe that DVC AP's will continue, if only because DVC, who has a seat at the table, will rightfully claim that eliminating one of the biggest direct sales incentives may cripple their future growth.
?
I know we are doing more resort days since we could not buy the AP pass. Resort days means less money from us since we have a kitchen we are making more of our meals instead of eating out. Also pool days means less chance to pass a gift shop so we are not buying as many things either. They are getting less money from us not allowing AP pass.

If the trend continues we already talked about as a family that we will buy a AP from universal, and just do MK one day. They are loosing money from people like us.
 
To answer the OP question:

Just simply don't go. . . If AP come back I will go back as usual. If they don't I continue to rent my points out and bank my money. My DVC was paid in cash up front. I got a ton of trips out of it. I'll rent to pay off my dues and hold steady. . . I truly don't need Disney right now. And I don't even care about the DVC discount. I'll pay full price I don't really care. The biggest benefit of the season pass was being able to go 2-4 trips regardless of what I paid cause once I hit that second trip it was all profit at that point. Paying for park tickets per trip now if we were still going as often would hurt pretty bad.
 

Nah being replaced by someone else spending even more. Hard truth on it.
Yup. Chapek has calculated that right now, he isn’t losing any money by offering DVC members very little. The parks are near capacity every day. The restaurants (even the quick service ones) are near capacity every day. Merchandise is flying off the shelves and Disney can’t keep them stocked. This is short-sighted because when the inevitable downturn comes, Disney having alienated it’s most dedicated supporters will not have been great. But right now? DIsney isn’t losing anything when a DVC member stays home, or stays in his or her room.

Chapek already got your money when you bought into DVC. He’d love nothing more than for your points to go to breakage inventory so he can sell them to cash guests paying $1,000 a night.
 
Not necessarily. Lots of the people are staying offsite and not spending a lot in the parks.

Not sure this is true. Things are doing very well in terms of profits for Disney.

So, while people have adjusted, I think they have to be pretty happy with the crowds right now.
 
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Honestly I don’t think so. I bet less DVC owners buy APs than you think. As I shared, I know about 15 other DVC families personally, and not one of them buy APs because they don’t go more than once a year.

I really think we overestimate the new buyers who go in and buy because perks like an AP over buying for the benefits of owning it for what it is.
I could get deleted for this comment but I agree with Sandisw - it's a whole can of worms on the DVC boards. Too many people buying too few points that barely allow then to stay once every other year IF THERE IS AVAILABILITY for too few studios.

For people like me with 1000+ points, losing the APs would be devastating.
 
Not sure this is true. Things are doing very well in terms of profits for Disney.

So, while people have adjusted, I think they have to be pretty happy with the crowds right now.

The large crowds aren't due to resort only guests though. Offsite guests have the same access to the parks as onsite currently.

Park revenues are back to pre-pandemic levels but costs are higher. This is part of the reason that Disney's stock is performing so poorly. Inflation hits their businesses especially hard.

To your point though they've increased ticket prices significantly and are still seeing large crowds. Ideally they'll open up everything that's currently closed and allow for increased capacity. I'd love to see AP's return prior to the summer.
 
I could get deleted for this comment but I agree with Sandisw - it's a whole can of worms on the DVC boards. Too many people buying too few points that barely allow then to stay once every other year IF THERE IS AVAILABILITY for too few studios.

For people like me with 1000+ points, losing the APs would be devastating.

Nothing wrong with your comment and this is true. I think this is why we have seen DVD go back to enforcing the 150 point minimum. Selling small contracts created the imbalance for studios.

I truly believe an AP of some sort will be back and now really believe the lawsuit is what is holding things up because I would have placed a lot of money on them starting sales again.

I know as soon as they do, I will be buying another new pass, just to keep to adjust my current date as it’s not ideal..and so others have them.

It’s frustrating for sure for those that need them to enjoy the parks each and every trip.
 
Nah being replaced by someone else spending even more. Hard truth on it.

Replacement can only happen when a place is sold out and allowing nobody else in and there are people waiting in line to get in. That isn't the case with Disney theme parks and never has been.
 
Replacement can only happen when a place is sold out and allowing nobody else in and there are people waiting in line to get in. That isn't the case with Disney theme parks and never has been
I mean that’s pretty close to the situation right now. People keep posting “I’m not in the parks so I’m not eating at restaurants and I’m not buying merchandise.” However, the restaurants are all fully booked and the merchandise is flying off the shelves so fast that Disney can’t keep them stocked.
 
I mean that’s pretty close to the situation right now. People keep posting “I’m not in the parks so I’m not eating at restaurants and I’m not buying merchandise.” However, the restaurants are all fully booked and the merchandise is flying off the shelves so fast that Disney can’t keep them stocked.
But the restaurants aren’t all open nor at full capacity. The merchandise is limited quantities because of supply chain issues. Not sure that what we see is an accurate reflection.
 
The merchandise situation is way better now than what it was. We noticed way more selection in March compared to December. I didn't notice empty shelves like in December.

Some restaurants are still closed but I was seeing lots of good reservations pop up and snagged a few. Definitely looking forward to everything being open and operating normally though.
 
Nah being replaced by someone else spending even more. Hard truth on it.
Sure seems like it to me, based on both listening to the most recent quarterly call and just watching what is going on in the parks.

Replacement can only happen when a place is sold out and allowing nobody else in and there are people waiting in line to get in.
That's exactly what's happening. I just got back from a two-week stay, during which I had a 10-day PHP, plus a Sea World AP. For both weeks, most days were completely sold out at the Disney theme parks, even Epcot. It isn't getting much better---good chunks of April are already sold out at MK and DS, and a third of the month is already sold out at AK. Anecdotally, I heard a couple different people at Typhoon Lagoon talking about how they were trying to get an Epcot park pass that day, had kept checking over and over again, but couldn't.

However, the restaurants are all fully booked and the merchandise is flying off the shelves so fast that Disney can’t keep them stocked.
I used to habitually book restaurants the night before, and sometimes even the morning of, and would see plenty of good availability thanks to the $10 no-show penalty. That was still possible, but it was harder, and there weren't nearly as many choices of places to eat. We also were shocked at how many people were shopping on Main Street in the early afternoon on our way out of the breaks. We never remember seeing it that busy at that time of day.

But the restaurants aren’t all open nor at full capacity. The merchandise is limited quantities because of supply chain issues. Not sure that what we see is an accurate reflection.
Could be, but doesn't matter. What matters is that right now Disney is not wanting for more guests and it doesn't appear to be the case in April either.

Later on, when there is more capacity and/or the demand softens, APs will be back. Probably. Until then? Probably not.

It is changing my visit patterns. If we'd been able to get APs, I would have planned to come back for Food & Wine in October and again for a week in late February or early March. Now we're planning to do something else in October (maybe NOLA, or maybe visit one of the kids in grad school). Next February might be Disney on day tickets, or it might be Universal--it remains to be seen.
 
But the restaurants aren’t all open nor at full capacity. The merchandise is limited quantities because of supply chain issues. Not sure that what we see is an accurate reflection.
So true, while planning our upcoming trip I keep wondering how different the "in the parks" experience is going to be vs the mad rush to get dining - at 60 + I was having trouble with SLOW places - and it's clearly an issue of holding back, as LTT isn't going to be packed to the gills at 11:30 on a Tuesday mid-May.
 
They can use other data to help place employees and supplies other than the park reservation system and buckets to allocate spots among types of guests. They did for over 60 years and did just fine.

This argument is easily refuted; every business knows that just because you have done something for 60 years is not a good reason to keep doing it - in fact, if you have been doing it for 60 years, it's often a reason in and of itself to examine whether it makes sense. As Walt has said, "It will continue to grow as long as there is imagination left in the world". Sure, they did just fine - but that doesn't mean they can't do better.

Honestly I don’t think so. I bet less DVC owners buy APs than you think.

We definably do overestimate the DVC holders who are AP. Obviously these boards are only reflective of a microcosim of the DVC family, but poll after poll done here and on other social medias show that MOST DVC members are not AP holders and that's not just because we can't get them right now. :-)

My favorite zebra who everyone here knows I get along with splendidly posted a poll a few weeks back asking if you would keep your DVC is AP's were gone and it had an overwhelming Yes response (54.2 Yes + 13.3 Maybe with only 32.5% voting no). Most of the responders indicated they do not hold AP's now or the cost change would not be significant enough of a deterrent. I myself have only held an AP in the the last third of my time as a DVC member and after I got my second contract. Obviously to some DVC owners, AP's are essential - but I don't think it's a deal breaker for the majority of DVC.
 
Obviously to some DVC owners, AP's are essential - but I don't think it's a deal breaker for the majority of DVC.
We have APs (and have had for the past several years), but I can't say for sure that it's been the most economical ticket choice. It is the best choice for peace of mind, though, LOL. I know me - without the AP, I'd be all about getting the most out of each ticket day. That's not much of a relaxing attitude or a relaxing vacation.

Currently struggling with the renewal decision. If APs were available I would be buying new 60 days prior to our next trip with a plan to activate then. If we renew, our renewal date is two months prior to our usual trip. Hoping Disney decides to open AP sales soon. But I agree with those who think it will depend on the lawsuit, so not especially optimistic that it will happen anytime soon.
 
This argument is easily refuted; every business knows that just because you have done something for 60 years is not a good reason to keep doing it - in fact, if you have been doing it for 60 years, it's often a reason in and of itself to examine whether it makes sense. As Walt has said, "It will continue to grow as long as there is imagination left in the world". Sure, they did just fine - but that doesn't mean they can't do better.



We definably do overestimate the DVC holders who are AP. Obviously these boards are only reflective of a microcosim of the DVC family, but poll after poll done here and on other social medias show that MOST DVC members are not AP holders and that's not just because we can't get them right now. :-)

My favorite zebra who everyone here knows I get along with splendidly posted a poll a few weeks back asking if you would keep your DVC is AP's were gone and it had an overwhelming Yes response (54.2 Yes + 13.3 Maybe with only 32.5% voting no). Most of the responders indicated they do not hold AP's now or the cost change would not be significant enough of a deterrent. I myself have only held an AP in the the last third of my time as a DVC member and after I got my second contract. Obviously to some DVC owners, AP's are essential - but I don't think it's a deal breaker for the majority of DVC.
32% is an insanely high amount of people. If 32% of members sell, the resale market will crash, hard.
But I don't think it'll happen, it's only a matter of when the AP will be back, not IF.
 
We have APs (and have had for the past several years), but I can't say for sure that it's been the most economical ticket choice. It is the best choice for peace of mind, though, LOL. I know me - without the AP, I'd be all about getting the most out of each ticket day. That's not much of a relaxing attitude or a relaxing vacation.

Currently struggling with the renewal decision. If APs were available I would be buying new 60 days prior to our next trip with a plan to activate then. If we renew, our renewal date is two months prior to our usual trip. Hoping Disney decides to open AP sales soon. But I agree with those who think it will depend on the lawsuit, so not especially optimistic that it will happen anytime soon.

We've usually had AP's and they are important to us. We will likely renew them again this cycle. If for whatever reason we lose the ability to renew, I don't think their loss becomes a deal-breaker.
 
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