Anyone work in a pre K special ed class?

[A Mickeyfan]

Does anyone here work in a pre-k special education class? I do and am wondering what is the adult ratio in your county? Seems they are doing some changes where I am and it is not for the good of the child nor the adult. I am in a class with 12 children, 2 adults. 2 of the children are not potty trianed & we do not, I repeat, do not have a changing area.. we must change them on the floor of the classroom. This is a public school. We were told by the head of the ESE dept in Oct that we were getting a fold down table in the bathroom & it still has not arrived. One of our students cannot feed herself...she was never taught.. I need to bring in breakfast & lunch from the lunch room into our classroom to eat. The remainder of the school gets to eat in the lunch room. Our students eat in the classroom & I clean up after them. Me & the teacher.. we take turns. We clean the table, floor & counter. We always have several children spill their milk and or lunch. We need to mop the floor. Seems there is more time spent on cleaning up after them than actually doing any "learning". I am suppose to be getting 2 15 minute breaks & a 30 minute lunch of which I can never take. Seems I run out of time. When I went to the Assit Principal with this, I am told.. "I am sorry, what can I say" I thought there were laws against this I have spoken to some other teachers that I know at other schools in this county & they are saying the same thing is happening at the schools they are in with these pre-k special ed class's... is this happening everywhere or just here in Lee County Fl? I love my students, do not get me wrong, but I would like to use a real potty once in a while .. not just theirs... I would like to eat my lunch.. maybe call my doctor or check with my own family.. yet, I can never take my break... The principal & assistant.. both say.. oh you must take your breaks & have your lunch.. but when I ask when.. they say...well you can't have it here & you can't take it there nor there or here etc.. boils down to.. not taking them at all... I am getting burned out fast.. this has been going on since winter break ended... we went from 7 students to 12... while 12 may not sound like many, but when they have Downs, Autisim..to name a few things.. others not dx'd yet.... they are 3-5 years old... that is a large class.....sorry to vent.. but needed it at this point.... anyone else out there in the same boat as me

 

[pajamommy]

Hi, I am a regular ed preschool teacher.....well, I should also say that we have children that have not been diagnosed with anything yet either, but have some obstacles to overcome......anyhow, I am in a classroom with 10 kids to myself (ages 3-5). Yes, it is "regular" kids, but I would kill to have a ratio of 12 kids to 2 teachers. Good luck with your situation.

 

[Julia M]

I am a speech therapist and work at an autism cluster program. We have three PK classes for kids with autism. one class has 12 kids, one has 8 and one has 9. We have what's called an overlap, which means that half the kids attend from 8:15-11:15 and half attend from 10:15-1:15. So we only have all of the kids for 1 hour.

Our MR class has about 13-14 kids, also with an overlap. Our non cat class is at 17!! With the same overlap.

None of our programs have changing tables....everyone is changed on the floor, on a mat. One class has a bathroom in the classroom, the rest do not.

Staffing wise, our classes have one teacher and 2 aides.

Julia

 

[MidgeD79]

I live in MI and the ratio in our special-ed pre-school class in 2 adults per 12 kids. The parent may request during an IEP that their child needs an aide just for that child. It works every time. In our classroom the kids are also changed on the floor on a mat. I'm sure if someone reported that to the Health Department there would be trouble.

 

[Cindy B]

Sounds fairly typical for a prek special ed classes. The changing on the floor seems to be a norm.

I sub in a prek special ed school built especially for handicapped kids. We do have a bathroom with a changing table in some classrooms but not all.

As for the food issues, that is very very typical. Some special ed students have sensory issues and have a hard time eating. Some of my previous autistic students had a lot of challenges with eating. In some classrooms, the teachers organized small cubbies with a small curtain so the students would not be distracted and actually focus on eating. The students aide would actually feed the child in the cubbie using a applied behavioral techniques with a reinforcer. Usually the rienforcer is a game, toy or even a CD of music. The child plays with the toy for a moment, the aide/teacher takes it away, tells the student to eats or gives a quick bite of food and then returns the reinforcer until the desired behavior is finished.

If these students are that severe, more aides are needed. In my district it is IEP season, where students are reevaluated and additions to the IEP are added. The teacher needs to advocate for more assistants if they are that severe.

 

[Cindy B]

Oh and for breaks/lunch breaks that is typical as well. You do need to be the student during certain times and such like that.

Thats a been there, done that situation as well.

 

[golfgal]

I thought you were not allowed to change kids on a high surface in order to prevent falls/lawsuits? I know when our kids attended the early childhood program that MN has the infants and toddlers in sibling care were not allowed to be changed anywhere but on the floor.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

I had really thought that changing diapers on nap mat was against all that was ever taught to us! My gosh at least I am not alone. Not that it makes it correct. We have our students from 8:45-3:20... but the school only has my hours from 8:40 to 3:10! ..They rest is up to the actual teacher! I have been an actual "regular" preschool teacher.. but this is the first I am in an assistant in an ESE preschool class. When I was in the regular class, I had 18& kids one assistant. Kids were all potty trained and it was a 4 & hour program. I have never been in a situation like this until this year. I had subbed in them, but as a sub, they always made sure you were allowed to eat lunch & use a bathroom... The normal Pre K in this school has only 16 & one assistant, she gets her breaks & lunch.. this is what I don't get.. they have only 4 more than we do... we are special needs.. what happened to the smaller class size to meet their needs????? I do not think any of the parents would request their own assistant for their child.. half of them think of us as daycare. They send their child to school sick as dogs.. one mom even wrote a note last week "Please do not call me unless it is a real emergency, I know he is sick but I have to work" ... Hello..this is your baby.. some parents have no clue.. they just had them, but do not know how to raise them... or just do not care.. Monday I called the parents of one little girl, I told them I thought she had pink eye. They did come & get her. She shows up again on Tuesday and again on Wed... Wed I call again, this time both eyes really bad... goes to the doc finally. We get the call yesterday, I was correct, pink eye.. meanwhile, she came on Tues & again 3/4th's of the day on Wed.... and there are children in my class that lick everything.. so when one gets sick, they all do.. then it just keeps going around. I am waiting to see what happens with this now... yes, we wash hands.. and wash hands.. but there is just so much preventive that we can do...
Well, at least I feel better knowing I am not alone.. Something really needs to be done for these kids.. this is not fair to them. The education system is failing them. With classrooms like this, their needs cannot be met... and as far as the changing on the floor... that is for the birds.. I am sorry.... that is a health regulation that our schools are getting away with... yet if we turn them in, we will be out of our jobs.... Society does not care about the disabled... mentally or physically.... or both... they just do not care.. and schools...they only like the smart students that can bring the high testing scores to them, as in my case in FL... the FCAT.. that I call FCRAP

 

[A Mickeyfan]

I thought you were not allowed to change kids on a high surface in order to prevent falls/lawsuits? I know when our kids attended the early childhood program that MN has the infants and toddlers in sibling care were not allowed to be changed anywhere but on the floor.

But did they at least have a private place.. we have to do it smack middle of the classroom.. we try to have the kids on one side while one of us goes to the other side with the student that needs to be changed.. our kids are 3-5... and they do know when someone is being changed.. can be embarrasing too for them.. I feel bad when someone laughs.. we have a new 4 year old girl in diapers starting on Tuesday.. not sure how she will re-act when she has to go on the class room floor

 

[ADisneygirl]

I am an elementary school teacher and our school has 2 Pre K VE classes. I am friends with the Pre K teacher in my school as we both have son's the same age who play sports together, and I get to hear lots of stories about that room. There are 11 kids in each and a teacher and an assistant in each. They all have different levels of disability in there, and many are not potty trained. The bathrooms do have a fold down changing table like restaurant bathrooms do. I find it appalling that you are changing students on the floor.

As for taking breaks and lunch, that is a union issue. You are entitled to your duty free lunch and 2 breaks EVERY DAY. The teachers leave the room for their lunch break, and they get a 30-40 minute planning period per day while the kids are at specials like PE, Art, Music. The assistants must attend those, but they do get breaks and lunch away from the students.

It is not acceptable to be told there is no time for your lunch or breaks. You don't need to be a member of the union to ask them a question pertaining to your rights. Who is your union rep in the building? They might be able to help you. I would not allow myself to be taken advantage of in this way. People can only take advantage of you as far as you allow them to. At this rate, you will burn out quickly. I see a high turnover rate in both teachers and assistants in that job. If they never got their breaks no one would stay there in my school.

Good luck and for your sanity please speak to someone. What they are doing is wrong and illegal.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

Oh and for breaks/lunch breaks that is typical as well. You do need to be the student during certain times and such like that.

Thats a been there, done that situation as well.

do not get what you mean..
are you saying that I should not be eating my lunch.. ??? I work from 8:40-3:10..not having time to take break for the bathroom and eat is getting a bit too much.. if I do not eat something while they are, I cannot eat... if I do not use their toilet .. I cannot go.... is that right? Yet, I am paid the same as the others that get their normal breaks, their normal lunch... can actually eat in a quiet lounge... I do not even have the chance to check my school's email system that we are required to check everyday.. I have to do that from my home computer now...

 

[tw1nsmom]

I agree that it sounds as though you need more aides. Whether or not laws are being broken, I can't tell. I'm having trouble finding the information about student/teacher ratios at that age level. I would think there would need to be at least a floating aide to allow for breaks or when someone has to remove a child from the room.

The most likely law that's being broken is not being in comliance with individual childrens' IEP. If you can't follow the plan due to being short staffed, that would be breaking federal law.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

I am an elementary school teacher and our school has 2 Pre K VE classes. I am friends with the Pre K teacher in my school as we both have son's the same age who play sports together, and I get to hear lots of stories about that room. There are 11 kids in each and a teacher and an assistant in each. They all have different levels of disability in there, and many are not potty trained. The bathrooms do have a fold down changing table like restaurant bathrooms do. I find it appalling that you are changing students on the floor.

As for taking breaks and lunch, that is a union issue. You are entitled to your duty free lunch and 2 breaks EVERY DAY. The teachers leave the room for their lunch break, and they get a 30-40 minute planning period per day while the kids are at specials like PE, Art, Music. The assistants must attend those, but they do get breaks and lunch away from the students.

It is not acceptable to be told there is no time for your lunch or breaks. You don't need to be a member of the union to ask them a question pertaining to your rights. Who is your union rep in the building? They might be able to help you. I would not allow myself to be taken advantage of in this way. People can only take advantage of you as far as you allow them to. At this rate, you will burn out quickly. I see a high turnover rate in both teachers and assistants in that job. If they never got their breaks no one would stay there in my school.

Good luck and for your sanity please speak to someone. What they are doing is wrong and illegal.

We are Pre K VE... we were to get that fold down in the bathroom in Oct & never got it.. we do not even have enough tables in our room now. We have 3.. we use all of them to eat with.. when they are done eating.. I have to clean them ASAP, if not, the teacher has no where to work with them. After breakfast, she does circle time with them.. I clean the tables.. Principal is telling her that I am to be at circle time with her.. she asked who is to clean the tables then??? Principal has no answer for that.. teacher is great to work with, she chips right in and helps me with everything, in fact, she is the one that has been doing 99% of the diaper changes.. our kids never go to specials.. she never has any planning time. There has not been one day where they all took a nap. There is always one that will say up and roam around, cry or do something... during nap time is when she tries to get the paperwork that needs to go home ready... someone suggested that I take my break during outside playtime.. we tried that...no cannot do it... she had one little girl fall & get hurt very bad.. she had no one to get her to the clinic...they do not supply us with walkie-talkies... she has to wait until I returned to have me run her down. There was no one around for her to go to and she could not go fast enough with (at that time) 7 other disabled students clear across campus.. I had less than 5 minuts left to my break so she figured it would be wise to just wait for me.. when I got there I carried the girl to the clinic... we basically need 2 adults at all times with these kids.. and if I leave or she leaves.. we do not have that... and the school or district.. I am thinking more district.. not school.. will not give us more hours for another assistant...it is happening in another school where I use to work... I was talking to a teahcer there. She knows the preK ese teacher there & she said the same thing started in her class there this year.. seems our county is doing changes.. and they aren't for the good

 

[golfgal]

But did they at least have a private place.. we have to do it smack middle of the classroom.. we try to have the kids on one side while one of us goes to the other side with the student that needs to be changed.. our kids are 3-5... and they do know when someone is being changed.. can be embarrasing too for them.. I feel bad when someone laughs.. we have a new 4 year old girl in diapers starting on Tuesday.. not sure how she will re-act when she has to go on the class room floor

They usually changed them in the corner of the room but other then that, no private place. Again, these were infants and toddlers so too young to really know the difference yet. I guess I didn't think about the privacy issue.

 

[bananiem]

I thought you were not allowed to change kids on a high surface in order to prevent falls/lawsuits? I know when our kids attended the early childhood program that MN has the infants and toddlers in sibling care were not allowed to be changed anywhere but on the floor.

When I was a director of a child care center the State Rule 3 book clearly stated all children must be changed on a level changing table surface. If we had kids that were in the 3 year old room that still wore diapers they had to be taken to the toddler room to be changed.

 

[honeymom]

Please talk to your union. The biggest problem seems to be that you have a very demanding job and that you aren't getting the breaks that you are entitled to and that you are starting to feel burnt out.

 

[LBAK]

Our special ed pre-school has an 8:1:1 ratio (8 4yo, 1 teacher, 1 assistant). You'd have to see what your states laws are. It sounds like labor laws are definitely being broken. We are entitled to a 30 minute lunch and a morning and afternoon break. Lots of times we don't take the breaks only because so much is going on in the classroom but then it becomes our choice. You definitely should have coverage so you can leave the room. I change on the floor also because it's easier on my back. The lifting is hard after a while.

 

[Cindy B]

do not get what you mean..
are you saying that I should not be eating my lunch.. ??? I work from 8:40-3:10..not having time to take break for the bathroom and eat is getting a bit too much.. if I do not eat something while they are, I cannot eat... if I do not use their toilet .. I cannot go.... is that right? Yet, I am paid the same as the others that get their normal breaks, their normal lunch... can actually eat in a quiet lounge... I do not even have the chance to check my school's email system that we are required to check everyday.. I have to do that from my home computer now...

I am saying that I have been in the same position. I had six lunch duties that I had to do working in a middle school. I had to eat standing up during these 6 lunch periods because it was my job. I've subbed in all different classes. Yes, this was a union job... the union rep stated this eating lunch standing up was part of "other duties as assigned" and it was just the way it turned out that I never got a lunch break.

In autistic classrooms, I eat with the kids. (Actually to be technical, I feed the kids there and I may eat one bite or two. But because of all the cross contamination issues in that room with highly senstive allergies, I usually just bring a bottle of water and eat when I get home at 3. I just make sure I eat a big breakfast).

I never get the 15 minute breaks. Thats fairly laughable-- yes, its on paper, but never utilized. Usually its used walking people to the bathroom, cleaning up the room, making a parent call, checking on a kid at the nurse, etc. If I had 15 minutes to myself, I would just check and make sure the world wasn't ending!

I can't tell you how much email I answer at home. I wait until I get home to go to the bathroom sometimes. Its just the nature of the business.

 

[Cindy B]

Please talk to your union. The biggest problem seems to be that you have a very demanding job and that you aren't getting the breaks that you are entitled to and that you are starting to feel burnt out.

Now, I'm only familiar with Northern US schools. Is there a heavy teacher's union presence in other parts of the US?

I've heard that teachers unions are much less powerful and to some extent non existant in the South--is that true? Perhaps the OP is from a state that does not utilize unions for aides/teachers?

I remember the OP posting about this previously. Yes, its the nature of the business with handicapped kids in a less than ideal situation. I had a blind autistic student in 50 year old building one year. So, we have a completely blind student, who is non verbal (remember autistic) and I only know a little Braille. This students assistant didn't know Braille either!

So we textbook, mobility, and speech issues! I learned a lot that year.

 

[ADisneygirl]

I am home now and able to re-read through this thread from this morning. I spoke with my Pre K VE friend today about this. I sincerely hope that you contact the union rep in your building. What you describe your day as sounds awful to me. I don't know how you do it. You aren't being paid more than a regular ed assistant. They all make sure to take their breaks and lunch, away from the children.

Why aren't the P.E dept and the music and art areas servicing the pre k kids in your room? They are required to do so in my district. The pre k kids go to PE outside on the court, and the assistant goes with them. Accomodations are made within the program, but they do go. And the teachers contract states that they are to be given a planning period every day, which is during specials. How your district is getting away with this is mind boggling to me. You are in Florida as I am. Things can not be so different where you are.

You should have received an employee handbook/contract book when you were hired. If you didn't, go to your school's bookkeeper and in her office there will be a copy of it. It clearly states that you have two 15 minute breaks, not to be scheduled first thing in the a.m or last thing before you go home, and a 30 minute duty free lunch.

The fact that there is no "convenient" time to take them does not matter. It is your right as a school board employee. Believe me, when you mention bringing the union into this your administrator will find someone to sit in your room for your lunch/breaks if the teacher in there can't be left alone.

Please follow through with this. It is unlikely you will stay in a job which overburdens and takes advantage of you so much.