Anyone there now that can comment on FP enforcement

[pampam]

I have been in a number of lines where the sb line hardly moved while the fp line was catching up. I have been stuck on space ranger spin almost to the end of the standby line a couple of times when the sb line virtually stopped while a ton of fp users were let through and that ride loads pretty quickly. I don't think it is all that rare. It is just more noticeable on some rides than others. For instance in the Space Ranger Spin queue, you can see which line is moving and which is not so you know that it is not an issue with the ride that is slowing you down.

I thought it loaded the same as PP. It was previously explained that the reason the lines for Ppan were extreme was the way it was designed and loaded.

 

[mom2rtk]

Process of elimination? Backed up FastPass lines were being caused by late FastPass returns.

Huh?

The way I read magicbob's comment was that the recently reported FP line back-ups could not have been caused by late acceptance of FP. You know.... since they don't take them any more.

 

[xipetotec]

We were there March 04-13 and did see this come into implementation. We noticed the change of the wording on the fastpasses.

That being said, we've never taken advantage of "being able to come anytime after" so it didn't make much of a difference to us. We did overhear them enforcing the time to others however. We also did not notice a significant increase in fastpass wait times in line.

 

[WDSearcher]

So, the underlying question is, what causes the FP line to get backed up like that? Obviously, late FP use is not the reason (as some have maintained for years), because everyone in these backed-up FP lines is now using an "on-time" FP.

Do you think it's just bad timing with everyone showing up at the same time?

Remember: at 3 pm, people with FP return times starting at 2 pm (as long as they're not 1 more minute later), 2:05 pm, 2:10 pm, 2:15 pm, 2:20 pm, 2:25pm, 2:30 pm, 2:35 pm, 2:40 pm, 2:45 pm, 2:50 pm, 2:55 pm, and 3:00 pm could all show up at once. Of course, is not likely that all of those people would wait until 3 pm to show up when they COULD have come before that, but it IS possible.

This could be exacerbated if a lot of people during one hour come later in their window (as described above) and then during the next hour everyone shows up right at the beginning of their windows. That would add more people to the already back-up line every 5 minutes.

A FP line can also be slowed significantly if you have a lot of wheelchair / mobility impaired guests at the same time. In a case like that, the ride has to literally stop each time it's loaded -- either for the extra time it may take someone to get from wheelchair to gondola, or for the time it takes to place the wheelchair properly. And then it will have to stop again each time a wheelchair is UNloaded. So if it happens that you have a group of folks from a program for mobility impaired kids or you have a group of adults with caregivers and they're all traveling together, that could certainly slow things down and create a long FP line. Particularly if the ride is using the FP line to also handle GAC cards.

It's also possible that there was a ridestop at some point for a mechanical failure or something. That would also create a back-up.

 

[KellyNY]

Backing of the FP line also can be result of peope holding the line when they show up late and CM explains to them they cannot ride. It takes time to talk and in some cases it will be few words and in some it will take much longer. So FP line may empty completely during this conversations and then get full because everyone was waiting to get processed. I think this is why we have such different reports.

 

[Guano Joe]

Here's a brief update on enforcement of the window at AK. I worked several FP positions at one of our major attractions yesterday. A very high percentage of guests were returning on time and without complaint. We had perhaps 30 to 40 late returns during the day and, yes, many were turned away. Some of the excuses were very entertaining. The winner for the day was from a family arriving 90 minutes after the end of their window. "A white rhino was in the road on the safari ride, and our truck had to stop". Really? Yes, we know it happens.....but for an hour and a half?

Standby wait times during mid-afternoon reached 120 minutes, but the FP queue remained quite manageable all afternoon.

 

[Annadesu]

Here's a brief update on enforcement of the window at AK. I worked several FP positions at one of our major attractions yesterday. A very high percentage of guests were returning on time and without complaint. We had perhaps 30 to 40 late returns during the day and, yes, many were turned away. Some of the excuses were very entertaining. The winner for the day was from a family arriving 90 minutes after the end of their window. "A white rhino was in the road on the safari ride, and our truck had to stop". Really? Yes, we know it happens.....but for an hour and a half?

Standby wait times during mid-afternoon reached 120 minutes, but the FP queue remained quite manageable all afternoon.

Thank you for the info That's good to know

 

[TwiddleDeeTwiddleDum]

We spent the last three days playing in the parks. Yesterday was MK and it was packed, especially in the usual places.....

At Peter Pan, we noticed that the FP line extended well outside the show building, around to the distribution machines..............

the FP line always has priority, so the SB line people are sometimes held back with little or no movement in the queue at all, so they adjust the wait time clock accordingly.

Just then, the FP line started to move, and swallowed everyone up at once. The CM said that their goal was to have FP wait no more than 10 minutes.

Finally, another CM confirmed that they can "officially" admit 5 minutes early and up to 15 late, making the actual window 80 minutes long.

Sorry to cut out part of your posts (& the following ones) I just want to comment on a few things

I don't recall anyone in this thread posting a CM confirmed they can officially admit 5 minutes early - thanks for posting that

That makes no sense to me at all, even though we experienced the same exact thing at Pooh. The CM would empty the FP line and hold everyone in the SB line back. That line hardly moved! It was painful, and many people left the line very angry........I honestly think that that CM needed some re-training.

I have never before seen the FP line emptied while everyone in the SB line just stood there. And I never hope to experience it again.

I think from what the first post above said the CM explained they do indeed hold that SB line up until they get FP line moving at the "no wait" level. That's why the S/B line, though short in appearance, in actuality was long due to all the FP's riders getting in first. It does tend to wear ones patience though when you literally see hundreds of people by & all that's stopping you from getting into that final que is the CM infront of you letting them all through.

I had this happen at SOarin one painful trip, S/By line posted wait 40 minutes, I entered the line about 11 having a 12:30 lunch in France. About 10 people back from the CM, she literally left hundreds upon hundreds of people through FP, not even allowing 1 or 2 people at a time in the S/By line enter. It was so frustrating.

THis is why I get miffed reading on the boards to "plan your time better, blah blah blab" about FP and ADR's. I entered a 40 minute posted line with 90 minutes before my ADR. After investing an HOUR of my time in S/by, I'm not going to leave the line for a lunch app't. Fortunately my family was meeting me at lunch & had arrived, checked in & seated when I got there 10 minutes after our ADR time.

Maybe that's what we saw, a temporary fix for a long FP line. Like, mm, I hadn't ever seen the FP line move exclusively while the SB line is at a stanstill. But it does make sense that they'd have to do that now and then to keep the FP line short, since it would be the priority.

When they do it though, it's PAINFUL being in the S/by line if you have an ADR & have attempted to plan accordingly.

......The standby line is still supposed to move a bit, not be frozen in one spot as the fastpass line was continually emptied.

You'd think, but I had the same experience as you & it was AWFUL!

So, the underlying question is, what causes the FP line to get backed up like that? Obviously, late FP use is not the reason (as some have maintained for years), because everyone in these backed-up FP lines is now using an "on-time" FP.

It's probably too soon to say, but I do think it's going to be because everyone that takes advantage of FP will make the effort to be back in the return window.

Oh, you reminded me of one other thing. The CM said that since enforcement began, per hour FP ridership is up in the FP line, indicating that people who pull FPs are using them, and within the window. Maybe that, combined with increased attendance, and, as you said, large numbers arriving at once, caused the FP line to swell.

Doesn't surprise me

Of course, those FP lines might not be so long if some of those people were allowed to come back later when both the FP and standby lines had died down some.

Naughty naughty stirring that pot

Process of elimination? Backed up FastPass lines were being caused by late FastPass returns.

agreeing with mom2rk following post

Huh?

The way I read magicbob's comment was that the recently reported FP line back-ups could not have been caused by late acceptance of FP. You know.... since they don't take them any more.

Here's a brief update on enforcement of the window at AK. I worked several FP positions...........Standby wait times during mid-afternoon reached 120 minutes, but the FP queue remained quite manageable all afternoon.

Good to end on an up beat note, FP queue were manageable, let's hope that continues.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Huh?

The way I read magicbob's comment was that the recently reported FP line back-ups could not have been caused by late acceptance of FP. You know.... since they don't take them any more.

Don't "huh" me! I'll answer the point I want to answer, not (necessarily) the one being presented!

 

[magicbob]

Huh?

The way I read magicbob's comment was that the recently reported FP line back-ups could not have been caused by late acceptance of FP. You know.... since they don't take them any more.

Correct. That's what I was saying.

She was saying that the books the other person cited were written prior to enforcement, so that proves late FP was the reason for FP lines backing up prior to enforcement.

Unfortunately, that assertion fails a logic test. Just because late FP use WAS allowed when those books cited the FP being backed-up in no way proves that it was the cause. It is still possible that people showing up WITHIN their window, could have caused the back-ups. It's very convenient to overlook that fact and eliminate this possibility, but it's also intellectually dishonest (or at least logically fallible) to cite process of elimination when one of the factors cannot be eliminated.

 

[ftballfan7]

Backing of the FP line also can be result of peope holding the line when they show up late and CM explains to them they cannot ride. It takes time to talk and in some cases it will be few words and in some it will take much longer. So FP line may empty completely during this conversations and then get full because everyone was waiting to get processed. I think this is why we have such different reports.

It seems highly unlikely that is the cause. If it was taking so long to explain to people that they cant use fastpasses late that a completely empty fastpass line then suddenly backed up to the point as described, surely accomadations would be made to solve the problem (like adding additional cms to check fast passes while the rule is explained to others). It really isn't a reasonable conclusion that this scenario would play out as you describe, although it does fit in well with your blame it on the late fastpass users mentality.

 

[magicbob]

It seems highly unlikely that is the cause. If it was taking so long to explain to people that they cant use fastpasses late that a completely empty fastpass line then suddenly backed up to the point as described, surely accomadations would be made to solve the problem (like adding additional cms to check fast passes while the rule is explained to others). It really isn't a reasonable conclusion that this scenario would play out as you describe, although it does fit in well with your blame it on the late fastpass users mentality.

Asserting that the current FP line back-ups are STILL the fault of late FP users because they are holding everyone up while they argue with the CM (not a first-hand observation, by the way). PRICELESS!

 

[ftballfan7]

Considering those books had to have been written and published well before this reversion to adhering to the FP window went into effect - the cause of the backups cited in the guidebooks cannot reasonably be due to the one hour window.

Process of elimination? Backed up FastPass lines were being caused by late FastPass returns.

The books didn't get into the causes of fp line backups. Likely causes are ride malfunctions, large groups, or occurences which tend to result in large numbers of unrelated fastpass users to return at approxiamately the same time (ie end of a parade or a downpour).

I believe their has been a malfunction in your "process" of elimination.

 

[BNM]

Correct. That's what I was saying.

She was saying that the books the other person cited were written prior to enforcement, so that proves late FP was the reason for FP lines backing up prior to enforcement.

Unfortunately, that assertion fails a logic test. Just because late FP use WAS allowed when those books cited the FP being backed-up in no way proves that it was the cause. It is still possible that people showing up WITHIN their window, could have caused the back-ups. It's very convenient to overlook that fact and eliminate this possibility, but it's also intellectually dishonest (or at least logically fallible) to cite process of elimination when one of the factors cannot be eliminated.

One possible explanation for the current FP backups (and I think there are enough reports that this is happening) is that Disney has begun increasing the number of FP available. Wasn't there a memo way back when alluding to the possibility that they would do this? Something about increasing the number of people who could use the service.
Possibly they overestimated the number of people who were using FP late and/or would not make the window and thus be no-shows. If they overestimated the number of no-shows and decided to increase the number of FP due to large observed crowds and long standby waits, you now have overly long FP lines.

With more FP per hour the likelihood of having a bunch of people all return at once increases. Just an idea.

 

[Sammie]

This is where smartphone apps come in handy. You can check the return time being distributed from where you are rather than traipsing across the park only to find out the FPs being distributed don't work for you.

Hopefully, Disney will also put up displays in various locations around the parks to provide this information. That way, ALL guests can benefit and you won't have to be a smartphone owner to get this information.

I think they are discussing turning Spaceship Earth, Cinderella's Castle, Tree of Life and that awful Hat, into JUMBO TRONs.

Easily read by all in the park from any point. They will also be using these devices to post real time photos of any rule breakers.

 

[Marshel]

I too have an issue with their sometimes insistence of completely emptying the FP line while the SB line does not move at all. All of the FP literature promotes less wait, not a guarantee of no wait. I would be upset if I was in a FP line and had to wait as long as standby, but on the other hand it's not unreasonable to encounter somewhat of a line in the FP Queue and to have a minimal wait. They had to reconfigure the queue at Test Track because they were having issues during peak periods with people in the SB line getting angry while watching the complete emptying out of the FP queue right under their noses when they had been in line that barely moved for an extended period of time. A long wait in the SB queue seems even longer if your standing in one place for extended periods of time. I often end up having to ride Soaring SB ( I tend to end my days at EPCOT and Soaring FPs are always gone by then), and when it's being done right, while they definitely give priority to the FP queue, they do allow an allotment of SB patrons to enter the final queue at regular intervals. I'm sure at times it's hard to maintain the proper mix of FP and SB patrons to keep both lines from backing up; but they seem to do a better job of it at some rides than others.

 

[magicbob]

I always thought there was a ratio of like 70/30 or 80/20 for FP and standby (i.e., let 25 FP guests in, then 5 standby, or if the numbers were larger maybe let 50 FP guests in, then 10 standby, etc.). I've never even seen a FP line backed up. But I know that I HAVE been in a FP line and been stopped temporarily while some standby guests were let in. Hence my belief that there was some ratio/formula/guess-timation they used. It might make sense to increase the ratio of FP guests if the FP line is backed up, but 100/0 seems a bit extreme. How about 90/10 or something that at least keeps the standby line moving a LITTLE? And this is coming from someone who is usually IN the FP line, not the standby line.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Correct. That's what I was saying.

She was saying that the books the other person cited were written prior to enforcement, so that proves late FP was the reason for FP lines backing up prior to enforcement.

Unfortunately, that assertion fails a logic test. Just because late FP use WAS allowed when those books cited the FP being backed-up in no way proves that it was the cause. It is still possible that people showing up WITHIN their window, could have caused the back-ups. It's very convenient to overlook that fact and eliminate this possibility, but it's also intellectually dishonest (or at least logically fallible) to cite process of elimination when one of the factors cannot be eliminated.

Before the 2004 Unofficial Guide was printed, when the typical wait was determined by that independent source to be 20 minutes or less, were there backups in the FastPass line? How long, where, with what frequency?
Between when the 2007 edition and March 6, 2012, when the typical wait was determined to be 15 minutes or less, were there backups in the FastPass line? How long, where, with what frequency?
Since March 7, 2012, when it can reasonably be determined based on history that the FastPass wait should be no more than 20 minutes, were there backups in the FastPass line? How long, where, with what frequency? Because it seems the posters coming back and reporting are saying - no.

FastPass was never intended to provide instant access on return, just a [frequently much] shorter wait in line; so I guess 'back-up' is subjective. At least one poster in one of these threads seemed to expect pretty much instant access.

 

[origin62]

Except that with a poplular attraction that would typically "sell out" of FP's most days, the FP numbers SHOULD still be the same as before 3/7..... meaning that it wouldn't matter if was a busy day or not.

I'm sorry. I don't understand what you're saying.

 

[origin62]

I always thought there was a ratio of like 70/30 or 80/20 for FP and standby (i.e., let 25 FP guests in, then 5 standby, or if the numbers were larger maybe let 50 FP guests in, then 10 standby, etc.). I've never even seen a FP line backed up. But I know that I HAVE been in a FP line and been stopped temporarily while some standby guests were let in. Hence my belief that there was some ratio/formula/guess-timation they used. It might make sense to increase the ratio of FP guests if the FP line is backed up, but 100/0 seems a bit extreme. How about 90/10 or something that at least keeps the standby line moving a LITTLE? And this is coming from someone who is usually IN the FP line, not the standby line.

After a little questioning, it turns out you are right. They have a prescribed admitting ratio that they use to alternate between each queue. That number varies based on the attraction and conditions, and the CMs are free to use their discretion as necessary. Apparently what we witnessed that day was a reaction to a suddenly long FP line, and then the CM probably went right back to "normal" admitting procedure. I'm also told that no matter which approach the CMs take, they cannot please anyone. The guests in the SB line complain whether they let in 4 people or 40.

I didn't mean to set off a debate when I originally posted, and I should point out that this one "incident" at PP, was the only time we observed, in three days, a long FP line.