Anyone know how many SW Early Bird Checkins are sold per flight?

[goofy4tink]

Seat saving is not "cheating" it is a gamble that sometimes pays off.

I'm going to try to put a different spin on the seat saving technique for those of you who "hate" it. First, the seat saving technique is merely a gamble and you can choose to make the same bet. Instead you choose not to chance it and would rather give SW more money for the guarantee of sitting together with your family. I say good for you, I'm glad you can afford the extra cost. Assuming that you pay for early boarding and do get to sit together, then you are getting what you paid for regardless of whether anyone saves seats or not. (I've never heard of anyone yet who paid for early boarding and didn't get to sit together, but I guess it's possible.) So if you're getting what you paid for but see someone else saving seats, why not "let it go" and let the seat savers try to save seats? It doesn't hurt you or your early boarding investment in any way.

However, the second point I want to make is that the seat saving technique can actually benefit early boarders (and everyone else) if it prevents a flight delay. Be honest, no one wants to sit next to someone else's kid, no matter how well behaved the child might be. Also, no parent wants their child sitting next to a stranger on a plane. As a former flight attendant, I can guarantee you that your plane will not leave the gate if a parent is throwing a fit about where their child is sitting because an irate parent (aka raving lunatic) is an inflight safety risk. This means two scenarios for everyone on board when parents and children are separated: there will either be a delay at the end of boarding while people voluntarily swap seats to accomodate the upset parent, or there will be a delay while the parent fumes and eventually deplanes with children in tow because no one will swap seats for them. Either way, those of you who paid for the privilege of early boarding will be delayed. So... instead of being mad at the person saving seats, be glad they at least paid for 1 or 2 early boarders and succeed in saving the rest of the seats they need because that prevents delays.

Third, there could be extenuating circumstances that you know nothing about that caused the seat saving family to do what they do. Perhaps it is a family who spent every penny they had on a discounted bereavement ticket to a funeral and couldn't afford the extra money for everyone in their party to board early. Or perhaps it is a family on their way to see a returning loved one who is a U.S. service member as he/she arrives stateside after a tour of duty. You never know what is going on in someone else's life that causes them to make the choices they do (or be unable to afford the luxury of purchasing early boarding). As long as those choices don't affect you, you shouldn't let it bother you.

Now a word to seat savers like me. If you are a seat saver, be considerate of others and go to the far rear of the plane where nobody wants to sit anyway. Your chances of somebody insisting to sit in your saved seat will be diminished greatly at the rear of the plane! (I will be traveling with my two elderly parents and 4 young nephews on RR points which means 14 separate confirmation numbers round trip. There is literally no way for us to check in 7people at exactly the 24 hour prior mark both ways. I can't afford the 14 early boarding passes so I will buy 2 early boarding passes each way and hope for the best).

From my vantage point, everyone wins from seat saving: early boarders get to sit together so they get what they paid for, seat savers get to sit together and the plane is not delayed, SW gets money from at least one early boarding fee. Win, win, win!! Yay for everyone, right?!

I'm sorry, but it's the principle here. If someone is at the end of the EBCI grouping, and they are trying to find seats together, then they are going to have to pass by those empty, probably prime location, seats, and go to the rear of the plane. And how do we know that there is only one row being saved? If there are 10 family groups saving seats, then you now have at least 10 rows taken! And while there could be some 'extenuating' circumstances, they just aren't going g to be the norm. The norm is a family that has decided they don't need the addtl expense of EBCI....so they buy one or two EBCI slots and very possibly take up two rows!

I really wish seat savers would go to the rear. It annoys the bejeebers out of me when I have paid extra for EBCI, and have to pass by a ton of empty seats (and yes, they were being saved, I heard the occupants say so to other people in front of me), only to take seats much further back.....which now keeps me on the plane longer, while all those seat savers take their time getting off the plane. It just seems to follow that seat savers tend to linger as they get off.....maybe it's because they're closer to the front and the sense of urgency isn't there. Not everyone, but there are some.
This is one reason I don't fly SW as often as I used to. It would be nice if everyone was the same, but they're not! Here's the thing...if you ask SW if you can save seats, you are usually told no. But if you board, and want to sit in an empty seat, that is being saves, the FA will not get involved.
And then there is the one big, to me anyway, reason to fly SW....I can see who is seated near me. And then I can choose my seat. If there is a baby close by, I can walk on and loom further. Same with a toddler. But, that's just not possible with seat savers, is it. I can take an empty seat,based on what I see when I board, only to have dad and the toddler board and sit behind me, or in front of me. Just isn't worth it to me anymore.

 

[disneyag]

To all you SWA seat savers out there. You probably should lurk on the flyertalk boards for a while to get a sense for how people feel about seat saving. Unlike many of the Dis'ers, flyertalkers can get MEAN when they perceive someone is trying to take advantage of the system.

 

[goofy4tink]

To all you SWA seat savers out there. You probably should lurk on the flyertalk boards for a while to get a sense for how people feel about seat saving. Unlike many of the Dis'ers, flyertalkers can get MEAN when they perceive someone is trying to take advantage of the system.

I have found that the vast majority of posters over on FlyerTalk are seasoned travelers. They know the drill. I would much rather fly with them vs a lot of the fliers heading to WDW!

 

[Ranger111]

I have found that the vast majority of posters over on FlyerTalk are seasoned travelers. They know the drill. I would much rather fly with them vs a lot of the fliers heading to WDW!

 

[Disneylover99]

From my vantage point, everyone wins from seat saving: early boarders get to sit together so they get what they paid for, seat savers get to sit together and the plane is not delayed, SW gets money from at least one early boarding fee. Win, win, win!! Yay for everyone, right?!

You can justify your seat saving anyway you like. But when I've purchased EBCI for my entire family and you are saving seats for five extra people, I'm going to be ticked if your seat saving affects my families seating choice.

 

[3happydancers]

First, let me say I agree that if you WANT to board early, then purchase the EBCI. Those who did not, don't EXPECT to have a seat waiting for you. There is a good chance that a person(s) who DID purchase EBCI WILL take that empty seat even if an item is placed there. Please don't expect others to move so you may sit with so and so. If a person(s) offer to move for you, be grateful they did! If no one offers to move, accept your fate, take a seat, and learn for the next time.

My family purchases EBCI for our trips so that we can sit together. So far, we've had no problems. Can we really afford it, no, but I consider it part of my airfare and budget for it. This year there will be 5 of us round trip so $12.50 x 10! Sure would be nice to use this money for other fun stuff but sitting together while flying is equally if not, more important.

But...although I think it's wrong to save seats, I think SWA is wrong for not taking a stand! When EBCI was first introduced, I called and asked about saving seats. I was told SWA has no policy regarding saving seats so If I wanted to purchase 1 EBCI and save seats for my family I could. If SWA tells customers they CAN do this, then that is what will happen. The flip side is that passengers are also told by SWA that they cannot save seats, so which is it? SWA representatives consistently gives conflicting information. They all need to be on the same page!

SWA needs to implement a policy; either saving seats is acceptable or it isn't especially when it comes to EBCI loaders. They need to both verbally state this to all who inquire AND post the rule. Flight attendants should step in and kindly remind passengers that seat saving is not allowed. As of right now, how can we expect a flight attendant to step in if SWA does not have a policy? Unfortunately, this is a grey area that SWA has not committed to, and until they do, saving seats will continue by some passengers who will ignore doing the RIGHT thing.

 

[scard192]

IMO seat savers are in the same class as people who make late ADRs at MK during hard ticket events so they can "see" the event on their way out of the park. If want the benefit of something you should expect to pay for it in full.

 

[goofy4tink]

First, let me say I agree that if you WANT to board early, then purchase the EBCI. Those who did not, don't EXPECT to have a seat waiting for you. There is a good chance that a person(s) who DID purchase EBCI WILL take that empty seat even if an item is placed there. Please don't expect others to move so you may sit with so and so. If a person(s) offer to move for you, be grateful they did! If no one offers to move, accept your fate, take a seat, and learn for the next time.

My family purchases EBCI for our trips so that we can sit together. So far, we've had no problems. Can we really afford it, no, but I consider it part of my airfare and budget for it. This year there will be 5 of us round trip so $12.50 x 10! Sure would be nice to use this money for other fun stuff but sitting together while flying is equally if not, more important.

But...although I think it's wrong to save seats, I think SWA is wrong for not taking a stand! When EBCI was first introduced, I called and asked about saving seats. I was told SWA has no policy regarding saving seats so If I wanted to purchase 1 EBCI and save seats for my family I could. If SWA tells customers they CAN do this, then that is what will happen. The flip side is that passengers are also told by SWA that they cannot save seats, so which is it? SWA representatives consistently gives conflicting information. They all need to be on the same page!

SWA needs to implement a policy; either saving seats is acceptable or it isn't especially when it comes to EBCI loaders. They need to both verbally state this to all who inquire AND post the rule. Flight attendants should step in and kindly remind passengers that seat saving is not allowed. As of right now, how can we expect a flight attendant to step in if SWA does not have a policy? Unfortunately, this is a grey area that SWA has not committed to, and until they do, saving seats will continue by some passengers who will ignore doing the RIGHT thing.

That's my issue as well. I really wish that SW would just put a policy in place. It's really not fair to those that have purchased EBCI to have to pass by seats that are being saved for non-purchasers. Like I said, this is one reason I no longer fly SW. Fair is fair.

 

[3happydancers]

That's my issue as well. I really wish that SW would just put a policy in place. It's really not fair to those that have purchased EBCI to have to pass by seats that are being saved for non-purchasers. Like I said, this is one reason I no longer fly SW. Fair is fair.

We live about 10 minutes from ISP airport and the only carriers are SWA and US Airways. US Airways only offers connecting flights; won't take them and they are more expensive. Otherwise I have to travel to JFK which I try to avoid like the plague. So for now, we are stuck with SWA. JetBlue has talked about joining our airport for years, but as of right now, they have not moved forward. Wish they would!

 

[disneyag]

originally posted by goofy4tink
i have found that the vast majority of posters over on flyertalk are seasoned travelers. They know the drill. I would much rather fly with them vs a lot of the fliers heading to wdw!

i agree!!!!

 

[DVC-Don]

I boarded a SW flight out of Albany, NY this past Jan where a woman was trying to save two seats. I'm sorry but I grab the first isle seat I come across and took it. She was a bit upset but hey I wanted to sit. Her husband sat next to her and their 40 something son sat elsewhere.

 

[djmeredith]

SWA needs to implement a policy; either saving seats is acceptable or it isn't especially when it comes to EBCI loaders. They need to both verbally state this to all who inquire AND post the rule. Flight attendants should step in and kindly remind passengers that seat saving is not allowed. As of right now, how can we expect a flight attendant to step in if SWA does not have a policy? Unfortunately, this is a grey area that SWA has not committed to, and until they do, saving seats will continue by some passengers who will ignore doing the RIGHT thing.

Now we get to the real root of the problem. SW has no official policy stating that saving seats is not allowed. I checked their website to be sure and this is what I found regarding their seating: "Pick a Seat Any Seat. At Southwest, we let you sit where you like. We don’t assign seats on our flights, so feel free to sit in any available seat once you board the plane." They do not define "available seat" but I'm wililng to admit that the language infers any seat not presently occupied by a human body. So ECBI boarders are perfectly within their right to plop down in a saved seat and I have no problem with that.

In the same vain, since there is no policy against seat saving, a person is well within their ECBI rights to attempt to save seats. Regarding the ECBI program, they merely advertise it as a way to be an early boarder, not a way of guaranteeing any number of seats available. The site says "Line Leader If you want to guarantee that you’ll be one of the first to board, buy a Business Select® fare to get an A1-A15 boarding position. Rapid Rewards® Members with A-List and A-List Preferred status and Customers who buy EarlyBird Check-In® are also automatically assigned boarding positions ahead of general boarding." As you can see, no guarantee of seating together (regardless of whether other ECBI boarders were seat savers or not) and no ban against seat saving by those who do purchase ECBI.

You can justify your seat saving anyway you like. But when I've purchased EBCI for my entire family and you are saving seats for five extra people, I'm going to be ticked if your seat saving affects my families seating choice.

You can be ticked all you want, but the reality is paying for ECBI is not a guarantee that your party will sit together even if there are no seat savers on board. Since there is no policy against seat saving AND no guarantee your party will sit together if ECBI is purchased, you will be the one escorted off the plane if you get angry about the situation and cause a scene. So get ticked all you want, I am a seat saver who is not going to argue back.

IMO seat savers are in the same class as people who make late ADRs at MK during hard ticket events so they can "see" the event on their way out of the park. If want the benefit of something you should expect to pay for it in full.

Two completely different things. Disney has actual policies against attending ticketed events without a ticket AND they enforce it. SW has no policy against seat saving, and they do not allow flight attendants to interfere when seat saving is attempted.

That's my issue as well. I really wish that SW would just put a policy in place. It's really not fair to those that have purchased EBCI to have to pass by seats that are being saved for non-purchasers. Like I said, this is one reason I no longer fly SW. Fair is fair.

In my book "fair" means everybody is following all written policies. Both ECBI boarders who plop down in "saved' seats (assuming they do so without causing any verbal or physical altercation) are being fair because they are following the published rules; and the seat saver is also being fair because they too are following the published rules.

 

[3happydancers]

Now we get to the real root of the problem. SW has no official policy stating that saving seats is not allowed. I checked their website to be sure and this is what I found regarding their seating: "Pick a Seat Any Seat. At Southwest, we let you sit where you like. We don’t assign seats on our flights, so feel free to sit in any available seat once you board the plane." They do not define "available seat" but I'm wililng to admit that the language infers any seat not presently occupied by a human body. So ECBI boarders are perfectly within their right to plop down in a saved seat and I have no problem with that.

Then you would have no problem with a person boarding with EBCI to claim a saved seat held by an object?

 

[DCbride]

When I flew SW in Feb, a lady was sitting behind the exit row but had placed her bags in the exit row seats. I asked her which seat was hers and she replied that she was sitting back but was saving the exit row for her husband. The FA said that if I would like the seat that is was unoccupied. The lady was not happy and complained loudly when her husband and teen son arrived. The husband sat behind and was able to extend his legs since I didn't have a seat next to me by the window. Since it was the late flight the night of the princess half, 90% of the plane probably fell asleep within 15 minutes after takeoff anyway. But the TA did not let her save two extra seats.

 

[goofy4tink]

Now we get to the real root of the problem. SW has no official policy stating that saving seats is not allowed. I checked their website to be sure and this is what I found regarding their seating: "Pick a Seat Any Seat. At Southwest, we let you sit where you like. We don’t assign seats on our flights, so feel free to sit in any available seat once you board the plane." They do not define "available seat" but I'm wililng to admit that the language infers any seat not presently occupied by a human body. So ECBI boarders are perfectly within their right to plop down in a saved seat and I have no problem with that.

In the same vain, since there is no policy against seat saving, a person is well within their ECBI rights to attempt to save seats. Regarding the ECBI program, they merely advertise it as a way to be an early boarder, not a way of guaranteeing any number of seats available. The site says "Line Leader If you want to guarantee that you’ll be one of the first to board, buy a Business Select® fare to get an A1-A15 boarding position. Rapid Rewards® Members with A-List and A-List Preferred status and Customers who buy EarlyBird Check-In® are also automatically assigned boarding positions ahead of general boarding." As you can see, no guarantee of seating together (regardless of whether other ECBI boarders were seat savers or not) and no ban against seat saving by those who do purchase ECBI.

You can be ticked all you want, but the reality is paying for ECBI is not a guarantee that your party will sit together even if there are no seat savers on board. Since there is no policy against seat saving AND no guarantee your party will sit together if ECBI is purchased, you will be the one escorted off the plane if you get angry about the situation and cause a scene. So get ticked all you want, I am a seat saver who is not going to argue back.

Two completely different things. Disney has actual policies against attending ticketed events without a ticket AND they enforce it. SW has no policy against seat saving, and they do not allow flight attendants to interfere when seat saving is attempted.

In my book "fair" means everybody is following all written policies. Both ECBI boarders who plop down in "saved' seats (assuming they do so without causing any verbal or physical altercation) are being fair because they are following the published rules; and the seat saver is also being fair because they too are following the published rules.

I don't think I should have to 'fight' for a seat because you didn't want to buy EBCI for all in your group. What am I expected to do if I want to sit in 5A, which is empty, but someone says they're saving it.....do I ignore them and sit down, and have an 'assertive' person argue with me, or proceed to make my life miserable? I'm sorry, but I paid my $12 for EBCI. I really resent it when someone saves seats for those that didn't pay for it. Yes, I should be able to sit in any empty seat. But I'm not all that confrontational. Basically, the more obnoxious you are, the better. And that's wrong.

 

[kaylasmom07]

I've never flown with southwest. I avoided them because I like to pay for my assigned seat ahead of time. For our upcoming trip, we are flying southwest because they are the only airline that run nonstop flights out of our airport to MCO.

I can see both sides of the seat saving argument. The problem is not the guests or the flight attendants. It's the fact that southwest doesn't have a policy against it. Why is that? I don't see how you can be mad at anyone attempting to save a seat when it isn't against the rules??

That being said, I bought EBCI for everyone in my traveling party because we want to sit together. If for some reason someone saving a seat is in the way of that happening I'll have no problem sitting in the seat, but I wont like the potential for an altercation.

Ugh... starting to not look forward to this flight.

 

[djmeredith]

Then you would have no problem with a person boarding with EBCI to claim a saved seat held by an object?

Correct! If a seat saver places a coat or bag or whatever in an adjacent seat, then I think an ECBI boarder has every right to politely insist on sitting in that seat and asking the seat saver to move their belongings. However, I also think the seat saver has a right to resist those efforts by politely refusing to move their belongings since SW doesn't have an official policy against seat saving. If the seat saver politely refuses to cooperate with the polite ECBI boarder, then the ECBI boarder in this scenario has 3 options. He can ask a flight attendant to intervene (which they may or may not do since SW has no official policy), he can enter into a verbal and/or physical altercation over his right to the saved seat (and suffer the resulting consequences of those actions which would most likely include being escorted off the plane), or he can reluctantly move along to another unoccupied seat and complain to corporate SW later. I personally would choose option 3. (And in case you're wondering, If I were the seat saver, I personally would move my stuff if asked to do so.)

I think SW's lack of official policy prohibiting seat saving creates a terrible situation for everyone involved in this scenario, especially the flight attendants who I can assure you do not want to deal with passengers fighting over seats (though they are trained to deal with them).

I don't think I should have to 'fight' for a seat because you didn't want to buy EBCI for all in your group. What am I expected to do if I want to sit in 5A, which is empty, but someone says they're saving it.....do I ignore them and sit down, and have an 'assertive' person argue with me, or proceed to make my life miserable? I'm sorry, but I paid my $12 for EBCI. I really resent it when someone saves seats for those that didn't pay for it. Yes, I should be able to sit in any empty seat. But I'm not all that confrontational. Basically, the more obnoxious you are, the better. And that's wrong.

I agree with you completely, no one should have to fight for a seat, but the reality is that SW has created an environment in which it forces passengers to do so. It has always been this way. It has been this way on SW since the beginning, long before ECBI came along. People have been saving seats on SW all along. Before ECBI, the seat savers were the A boarders whose travelling mates got stuck in C boarding. Now the seat savers are the people who buy only 1 or 2 ECBI passes. In reality, nothing has changed for passengers except that some people are paying for ECBI expecting a guaranteed good seat or the guarantee of sitting together. When in reality ECBI guarantees nothing.

All ECBI does is bring in more revenue for SW. There have always been seat savers on SW and there always will be unless SW starts assigning seats or sets an official policy and authorizes flight attendants to intervene officially. This is why I think ECBI is a complete waste of everyone's money; it does not guarantee anyone anything. It does not guarantee a "good" seat, it does not even guarantee that everyone in your ECBI party will get to sit together even when there are no seat savers (because SW sells tons of ECBI passes). So why pay for it if you might have to fight for a seat either way?

With all that being said, I must admit that I am not normally a confrontational person either. Like you, I would not fight for a seat or cause a scene even if I did pay for ECBI. I would choose option # 3 in my scenario above and remain quiet and contact SW later to voice my displeasure over the ECBI policy (or the lack of policy might be the better way to phrase it). Those of us who choose to fly SW, regardless of whether we purchase ECBI or not, do so because it saves us money and we have decided that the savings is worth the hassle of fighting over a seat.

 

[Disneylover99]

You can be ticked all you want, but the reality is paying for ECBI is not a guarantee that your party will sit together even if there are no seat savers on board. Since there is no policy against seat saving AND no guarantee your party will sit together if ECBI is purchased, you will be the one escorted off the plane if you get angry about the situation and cause a scene. So get ticked all you want, I am a seat saver who is not going to argue back.

Here's the thing. Being ticked about something and being confrontational, then causing a scene are completely different things.

Would I say anything? No. Would it bother me? Yes, if it meant that my family couldn't find seats together because of someone saving five seats.

I kind of equate the type of seat saving that you describe to passive bullying. You're taking something that doesn't really belong to you, but you will give it back if you are confronted (politely of course or risk being escorted off the plane). You are putting the onus on another passenger to confront you, probably knowing that most people are not confrontational at all and would not say anything anyways.

 

[djmeredith]

I've never flown with southwest. I avoided them because I like to pay for my assigned seat ahead of time. For our upcoming trip, we are flying southwest because they are the only airline that run nonstop flights out of our airport to MCO.

I can see both sides of the seat saving argument. The problem is not the guests or the flight attendants. It's the fact that southwest doesn't have a policy against it. Why is that? I don't see how you can be mad at anyone attempting to save a seat when it isn't against the rules??

That being said, I bought EBCI for everyone in my traveling party because we want to sit together. If for some reason someone saving a seat is in the way of that happening I'll have no problem sitting in the seat, but I wont like the potential for an altercation.

Ugh... starting to not look forward to this flight.

Please don't let this thread stress you out! I've flown SW many times, and my best friend's husband is a Captain for SW. I've never seen an actual altercation or incident over seats, nor has he ever told me about such an incident. That's not to say they never happen, but odds are that you and your traveling companions will board and find seats together without incident. I'm just defending the seat saver approach on here because I think it's wrong for the ECBI advocates to accuse the seat savers of wrong doing when the seat savers are not breaking any law, rule, or even corporate policy.

 

[gwynne]

Please don't let this thread stress you out! I've flown SW many times, and my best friend's husband is a Captain for SW. I've never seen an actual altercation or incident over seats, nor has he ever told me about such an incident. That's not to say they never happen, but odds are that you and your traveling companions will board and find seats together without incident. I'm just defending the seat saver approach on here because I think it's wrong for the ECBI advocates to accuse the seat savers of wrong doing when the seat savers are not breaking any law, rule, or even corporate policy.

The seat "saver" issue has changed the atmosphere to me. Southwest used to be a really nice airline. Not so much anymore. I haven't seen fights, if that's what you mean. What I do see are dirty looks, annoyed passengers, and lots of sighing. Fun...Fun...Fun...

We have one more trip planned on SW (yes, we purchased EBCI for all...) and then we're done for now.