Anyone have a school threated to kick out your child? NEW UPDATE 12/22 on PG 5

[TinkerbellMama]

THis is an update to my thread from Sept. about my DS hitting in school. The teacher has been sending home notes everyday about his progress. By these notes we have noticed a steep decline in the amount of his hitting. They were also monitoring his not sitting still. He is given chips for good behavior and has them taken away for bad behavior. He has the potential to earn 9 a day. Over the past few weeks he has gotten one 6, one 2, a couple 8's and the rest 9's. We took that as pretty good progress considering he used to get 1's, 2's and 3's pretty consistantly. We had a meeting yesterday (suppose to be parent/teacher) that ended up with the teacher, principal, councelor, psychiatrist, speech therapist, reading specialist and a behavior specialist. We were utterly shocked by all the people that were there. The teacher starts by pointing out the one day he got 2 tokens and then goes on to say that he is still disrupting her class too much. She says that academically if she tests him one on one he is in the 70% range for his age nationwide. Then the psychiatrist chimes in that they tested him in a group setting and because he can't focus all the time he is below the 35% mark and that his work in a group is below that of a preschooler and that they recommend putting him in early childhood special ed classes, HUH? If he can prove he is smarter than 70% of kids his age when given work by himself, then what good will putting him in remedial classes do? They also threw the ADD card at us again!! We have told them repeatedly (and given documents to them) that he was tested last fall at the request of his preschool and the doctors could find no evidence of ADD (FYI if you didn't know, the only 100% true way to diagnose ADD is a brain scan. The abnornal brain waves show up on the scan, other testing is only a best-guess). They told us that our only choices were to pull him out and send him to special ed at another school or get a doctor to put him on meds! The principal said that if we chose neither option she would have no alternative to suspend him if he misbehaves. They also said that he is on track to be held back. Unbelievable! He is 5 years old and has only attended school 47 days so far. I can't believe that are writing him off so quickly. I don't know how they can have the nerve to even mention holding him back when only 1/4 of the year is underway. If we had been seeing the behavior get continually worse I could see trying something else but we were given the impression that it was starting to improve. We told my DS what they said about going to another school and he started crying hysterically. Kept crying and asking a million questions like " what about my christmas concert I have been practicing so hard for?', "Why do my teacher and principal hate me so much?", "Why don't they want me to be with my friends?" and he also was upset because they have a tooth chart at school and he has his first one about to fall out and he was crying because he said he won't get his name on the tooth chart. I have been crying as hard as he has for the last day. I am totally devestated to have to see my DS hurt this bad. My DH and I are completely frustrated and heartbroken. We have no idea what we should do. I would welcome any suggestions, ideas or support.

My suggestion is to try an elimination diet with him. A LOT of the behavior you have described, especially in an otherwise very bright child (and clearly he is, if even the people wanting him in SPECIAL ED say he is well above average), can be the result of intolerances to food dyes, additives, sugar, dairy, or a variety of other substances or foods. Has he been allergy tested? I know this sounds like a crazy comment, but you would be amazed how many children change INSTANTLY when their diets are stripped of all chemical additives, etc. Please PM me for details! Good luck and I hope you find an alternative to this school. They seem pretty darn unresourceful for so many professionals, IMO, if their only solution is to kick him out.

 

[TinkerbellMama]

My suggestion is to try an elimination diet with him. A LOT of the behavior you have described, especially in an otherwise very bright child (and clearly he is, if even the people wanting him in SPECIAL ED say he is well above average), can be the result of intolerances to food dyes, additives, sugar, dairy, or a variety of other substances or foods. Has he been allergy tested? I know this sounds like a crazy comment, but you would be amazed how many children change INSTANTLY when their diets are stripped of all chemical additives, etc. Please PM me for details! Good luck and I hope you find an alternative to this school. They seem pretty darn unresourceful for so many professionals, IMO, if their only solution is to kick him out.

Oh, and P.S., your dh is wrong about the socialization issue with homeschooling! I won't bring my bias to this topic, but just do a search for homeschool socialization on the internet and you'll get all the information you need to convince him, if you are really interested in that route. Good luck!

 

[graygables]

I agree w/ squeakymouse. I also want to add that sometimes what seems like "normal" behavior to you or your family, or even friends, might NOT seem like "normal" behavior to a teacher. For instance, my DDs went to a movie night last night at a grocery store and when I peeked in on them, they were sitting on the floor, watching the movie while EVERY OTHER CHILD in the room (ages 4-10) was wiggling, crawling, blocking the screen, bouncing, you name it. I mean every single kid, but my two. DH and I were shocked. My 6yo has been dxed ADHD, possible bipolar, but she was still able to sit still through part of the movie.

All the other parents were watching and were not at all fazed by their children's misbehaving. I even mentioned it to the person in charge as we were checking out and she said, "Oh, they're always like that." OK, but that doesn't make it appropriate for that situation. So, while your DS may be OK in a home environment, that does NOT mean that his behavior is appropriate in a school environment, and clearly, since you were called to an Intervention Team meeting (which you should have been given proper written notice for, btw), the school agrees that his behavior is not appropriate within the classroom.

A few more thoughts...the school cannot make you medicate your child. That is your decision. However, if your son is breaking the rules affecting the safety of other students, they most certainly can suspend him. As far as homeschooling goes, your son may just be getting all the WRONG kind of "socialization" at his school and may need to pull away from it for the remainder of the school year to mature. There is PLENTY for homeschooled children to do to socialize (we homeschool...lots to do). Lastly, IMO, you should NOT have told your son what was said in the meeting. A 6yo has the capacity yet to understand what went on. I'm not sure many adults can process all the information at an IAT meeting, so a child certainly can't. There was certainly no need to upset him and make him uneasy around his teacher and peers. From now on, you make the decisions and when you inform him of them, they come from YOU. Like another poster said, "Mom and Dad have decided..."

 

[kellyg403]

My suggestion is to try an elimination diet with him. A LOT of the behavior you have described, especially in an otherwise very bright child (and clearly he is, if even the people wanting him in SPECIAL ED say he is well above average), can be the result of intolerances to food dyes, additives, sugar, dairy, or a variety of other substances or foods. Has he been allergy tested? I know this sounds like a crazy comment, but you would be amazed how many children change INSTANTLY when their diets are stripped of all chemical additives, etc. Please PM me for details! Good luck and I hope you find an alternative to this school. They seem pretty darn unresourceful for so many professionals, IMO, if their only solution is to kick him out.

We were very successful with this also. My DD changed drastically with diet control. Yes, the whole family was involved but I was amazed at the change in her after a few months. Though it may not be successful for you, giving it a try may not hurt! When first given the advice we were very skeptical but had great results.

Kelly

 

[daisyduck123]

They are right, if you son is not classified, and it doesn't sound like he is, then they can suspend him for poor behavior. Classified students can only be suspended up to ten days out of any acedemic year, per Federal law, as an FYI.

I have a student in my 1st grade who has already used up his 10 allowable suspension days this school year, but my principal said that if needed, she can write a letter (I can't remember exactly to who) & request more days, which I'm sure will happen.

 

[mapmakerj]

Thanks for the diet suggestion, I have started that this past week, however, the school is unwilling to wait to see if it works for him. My DS btw is not "hurting" other students the way some of you had suggested. His hitting, according to the principal, was more of a distraction not hurtful. He would give little bumps, nudges or taps with his elbow, step on (not stomp on) feet etc. They are not fearful that he will do anything really harmful to any student or teacher. In their words he is a very caring child and is not violent or mean spirited and never gets angry, he just reacts badly to other childrens behaviors or comments. But that is a moot point because that behavior has almost completely stopped in the past 3 weeks. Their main concern is only related to not being able to sit still during lessons and wait his turn. Those were the two points brought up endlessly during our meeting.
DH and I have decided, at the suggestion of our Pediatrician, to get an outside psychiatric evaluation from a well respected Dr. in our area. Then we will also tour the other school. We want to come at this from all angles. I am still working on getting DH to look into homeschooling. It's only fair to our DS. As far as what we told DS, we asked how he would feel if we moved him to another school so he could get some extra help with his impulsiveness. (Yes, he knows what that means because the school councelor has been using that word with him and they play with Impulsive Puppy to describe his behaviors) He smiled and said that he was OK with that, but a few minutes later he asked if that meant that he wouldn't be going to his current school anymore. I was not going to lie to the poor kid as he has been through enough, so I told him yes, but stressed that he would have fun making new friends etc. DS is very bright and obviously figured out what that meant to him and that is when he started crying. We are not going to get into all the messy details with him. (that would obviously be stupid!) We are trying to make this as easy as possible on him, but he is smart enough to know there is a problem at school and we have been and will continue to assure him that mom and dad are working on finding the best way to help him so he can have a fun experience with school.

 

[pirateofthecarolinas]

I too have a special needs child and I just wanted to give you a hug. I know this is overwhelming for you.

Most traditional classroom teachers are not trained to deal with special children. I was a teacher and I knew the school could not give my child what he needed to succeed. I tried homeschooling and it didn't go well. We put him in a private LD school for 3 years. He is now back in public school. Hopefully things will get better for you and your son. Advocates are a wonderful resource as others have mentioned.

Lori

 

[pirateofthecarolinas]

Can anyone recommend a good book that decribes these special diets?

TIA,

Lori

 

[ducklite]

My suggestion is to try an elimination diet with him. A LOT of the behavior you have described, especially in an otherwise very bright child (and clearly he is, if even the people wanting him in SPECIAL ED say he is well above average), can be the result of intolerances to food dyes, additives, sugar, dairy, or a variety of other substances or foods. Has he been allergy tested? I know this sounds like a crazy comment, but you would be amazed how many children change INSTANTLY when their diets are stripped of all chemical additives, etc. Please PM me for details! Good luck and I hope you find an alternative to this school. They seem pretty darn unresourceful for so many professionals, IMO, if their only solution is to kick him out.

We tried an elimination diet with our son when first trying to get a diagnosis. In our case it didn't work, but I know several others it did work wonders for. I'd agree, it's worth a try!

Anne

 

[ducklite]

I have a student in my 1st grade who has already used up his 10 allowable suspension days this school year, but my principal said that if needed, she can write a letter (I can't remember exactly to who) & request more days, which I'm sure will happen.

If it's a classified student, you can only do in-school suspension. That was one of the things that got my sons local public school in serious hot water with the state and the court when I sued. That's Federal law (check your Blue Book) there's no "letter" that can change it.

It sounds like the child needs a more restrictive setting to accomplish the learning process--can you get with their case worker and call an IEP meeting about changing placement?

Anne

 

[Mom to Jordan]

AS a mom of a premature infant I suggest looking a little closer at that possibility. DS was quite premature and showed some of the signs of ADD in kindergarten. He would get over excited and sometimes impulsive. We were so blessed with a wonderful teacher that saw it as excited to learn. There was someone from guidance that was observing another child and saw my child and dediced on one visit that he was ADD. WE were blessed again to have a Dr that dealt with premature infants and saw that it was just that, an inmature nervious system and not ADD. A huge amount of premature infants are misdiagosed and medication is not helpful to them .DS was not a distruption so it was never an issue but it did prevent a misdiagnosis. Good luck and hang in there!!

Jordans' mom

 

[horsegirl]

DH and I have decided, at the suggestion of our Pediatrician, to get an outside psychiatric evaluation from a well respected Dr. in our area. Then we will also tour the other school. We want to come at this from all angles. I am still working on getting DH to look into homeschooling. It's only fair to our DS.

I think this is a great way to go. I do not homeschool but have researched it and the studies I read did not indicate any long term problems with socialization. I know that many communities have homeschool groups that get together to do all types of activities, and children can belong to all the extracurricular activities that are offered through their school. This would be a great option, if DH can move outside the box in his thinking a bit. I can understand why he hesitates. He wants the best for his DS and wants him integrated like the other children. Again I understand the pain you are going through. Sounds like you are on the right track! I hope you have found support here....

 

[shaylahc]

You have gotten good advice, OP, so I won't repeat what others have said. But I wholeheartedly agree that you should consider that perhaps your son really does have a problem! I have a friend whose son was like this, always disruptive, he was kicked out of every preschool/nursery program he was in. He was an EXTREMELY smart little boy and his mom refused to believe that there was anything wrong with him except he was just smart Ultimately he was diagnosed with ADHD/ODD and severe anxiety and is on medication that allows him to do AWESOME in school.

What parents don't realize is the toll this can take on a child's self esteem. A child who is consistently labeled as being "bad" is going to have very low self esteem

I would say if the school wants to test him for special ed then I would go ahead and do it. Denying that there is a problem isn't helpful to anyone. Obviously the teacher is having difficulty with your DS which disrupts her classroom and takes away from her time with the other kids. I don't think it is unreasonable at all for her to want the situation looked into further.

BTW I homeschooled 2 of my kids for Kindergarten because one was gifted and one was delayed. I am a big fan of homeschooling for kids who aren't good candidates for the public educational system for whatever reason

 

[mapmakerj]

I realize and wholeheartedly admit there is a problem but I have already done the ADD tests (which, because of all the pressure, my ds will be doing again, along with other tests, for the 5th time ( 2 medical-pediatrician and neurolgist and 2- psychological -one on our own before kgarten and one at school have all been done) with no diagnosis of ADD except by the school PHD, and I feel that my Doc is probably correct in assuming that it is delayed neuro problems due to preemie delivery for which there is no meds to correct, only time and a compassionate teacher will help. Also, the school said that they have not nor will they test him at all for special ed (no money in the budget for this!). They just want to throw him in the class, which I just found out teaches preschool material. I have told them that if they don't test him to find out if he actually needs special ed, then they are making undocumented assumptions which are total unfair to my child. I think moving my DS to a different school with a smaller class or homeschooling might be the best for him unless they can back up their special ed claims. It just makes me angry that they have not performed even one single test to prove their reasoning for wanting him to go backwards in his education. The teacher even showed us the end of the quarter test given to all K students in the school and said that he performed as well as or better than most of his classmates in every area tested. I would think that putting him in a preschool special ed class would bore him to death and cause more antsy behavior. I told them to test him and if there are areas he needs special help in then send him to special ed for just those areas. I just talked to his teacher on the phone and she said she didn't think he needed special ed for his entire education and that she agreed he would probably get bored. She is behind my possible suggestion of sending him to a smaller class at a different school and only suggesting he get special ed for part of the day if they feel he needs it. She said she would talk to the principal to see if this would work as a solution for everyone. I also informed her that we were going to send him to an independent Dr. for evaluation and that we wanted to tour the school before making any decisions. She said that she would let the principal know of our plans. I should know more tomorrow whether or not the school is willing to work with us or be the"enemy" (which is how I feel about the principal right now)>

 

[Pinnie]

As a special ed teacher for almost 30 yeras, I want to agree with what Squeakymouse has said.

What needs to be realized is that the OPs child's rights end at the nose of another child. If he is in any way, shape or form, hitting, pinching, poking or pushing another child for ANY reason, it is inappropriate behavior and it can NOT be tolerated. Behavior managment plans take time from teaching to impliment. Last year I had 7 students on these plans and I still had to teach the curriculum to the other 29 students in my classes. Spending just 5 minutes a day with each child added up to 35 minutes that were taken away from the other students and getting their needs met.

I urge you to get an appointment with a pediatric neuroglist. They are better trained to address ADD/ADHD issues and medication. I work in conjuntion with one in our district and he won't offer meds unless it's necessary and he tells parents, "If your child had a heart condition and meds would help, would you give it to him/her?" It's the same with kids who are TRULY ADD/ADHD. They WANT to control the impulses but they can't. Trust me, I can understand you not wanting to label your child, but let me tell you the OTHER students will start labeling him "Bad" etc. and those labels can be more hurtful.

The "Label' can get you services that your child deserves. The school does want your child to be successful and is offering alternatives that could help. Do your research!

pinnie

 

[DisneyDotty]

Also, the school said that they have not nor will they test him at all for special ed (no money in the budget for this!). They just want to throw him in the class, which I just found out teaches preschool material.

Uh, is this legal? Isn't the school required to do an evaluation if you request one? I could be wrong on this... Anyone know about this?

 

[ducklite]

Uh, is this legal? Isn't the school required to do an evaluation if you request one? I could be wrong on this... Anyone know about this?

The school can not put him into anything other than a mainstream class or mostly mainstream and up to 20% in a resource room type setting (I could be a little off on that percentage) without developing an IEP. To move him into special ed would require classifying him and under Federal law, requires an IEP. It would be to the schools benefit as well asyour childs to classify him. The school will get additional Federal money to help pay for his education, and he will get additional services such as OT which might help him immensely.

I'm still wondering if remaining in the mainstream class with a f/t aide might not be the way to go for him.

BTW--You need to tell teh district that funding is not your problem, and the only thing you care about is educating your child. And ask them if they are planning on developing an IEP, and what do they plan on basing the classification on if they aren't going to test?

And please call the State Department of Ed today and speak with an advocate.

One other CRUCIAL thing, you MUST MUST MUST document every contact you have with the school, who you spoke to, the time and date, and what you spoke about.

Anne

 

[mapmakerj]

My DSIL's neighbor is an administrator for the school district (DSIL could have mentioned that to me a little sooner then last night knowing since friday I needed some answers, duh) so I went over to see if I could talk to him. He was so kind and knowledgeable. He said, yes the school doesn't have the money in their budget for testing because they aren't suppose to. All testing is to be set up and paid for by the district office. He couldn't believe the misinformation they gave me on alot of areas. We now have a real advocate on our side. He is the guy in charge of disputes between parents and schools so we hit the jackpot. He said he would personally speak with the principal and set her straight on the policies regarding testing so no one else is given incorrect information. He also said that he would talk with me in his office later today to discuss the whole situation. He also said to go forward with our other plans because it is exactly what he would have recommended anyway.

 

[TammyJ]

Well, I've been "lurking" around here for a couple of days, reading all the posts. I am so glad that you found an advocate and are getting answers now. It's heartbreaking to feel your child is not getting what he needs/deserves. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

 

[jojowentbyby]

(FYI if you didn't know, the only 100% true way to diagnose ADD is a brain scan. The abnornal brain waves show up on the scan, other testing is only a best-guess).

Abnormal brain waves are deteced with EEGs. This is a machine that uses electrodes to record the waves of the brain. It would be useless to detect ADD or scan the brain. There are also CAT and MRI scans. I don't think there is anytype of "brain scan" that detects brain waves. Having a child with Eplilepsy who has had all of these test (she has been eveluated for ADD and it was pretty vague and inconclusive) I try to stay current on all of these issues as I am her biggest advocate.

If you know of a specific test that can %100 diagnose ADD/ADHD then please post the accurate name. I would love the info. I have read lots of books and talked to lots of DR (pediatric Nuerologists, Pediatric Psychiatrists, and Primary care) none of which know of any firm way to for sure Diagnose ADD/ADHD. They are (as am I) under the impression that it is mostly a symptom based issue that can have huge variartions in the way it presents which often leads to a misdiagnosis.

From the info I gathered/that was given to me by DRs, preschool would not be an optimal time to evaluated for this issue due to the fact that they are so young. If you are confident that this is the end all be all test of what your son needs then I am glad that it has satisfied you.

I have been homeschooling DD9 for the past year because she has a high IQ and problems focusing in groups. She is doing great and almost every complaint the school had is gone while she has been home learning. Giftedness also presents with a lot of similar symptoms as ADD/ADHD that is also very hard to determine with tests. It sounds as though you need to eveluate his strengths and weeknesses and gear an IEP to him.

It is very hard when your child is having a tough time in school. I must say these everyday notes sound like the teacher is looking for issues rather than adressing them as they come. Good luck and I hope everything works out.