Anyone extending their OKW contract?

[PBader]

I think that many of you have made valid points and arguments. I am going to go on and extend my OKW points. I have really enjoyed the vactions that my membership has enabled us to enjoy and share over the years. We will continue to enjoy vacations as long as we are able and leave it to our son. Whatever he decides to do with it in the future will be up to him. I sincerly hope that as he begins a family and has children or grandchildren that they make as many memories and have as much enjoyment as we have in the last 13 years or so.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Actually, the DVC documents place full responsibility on DVC to enforce their own rules.

As for a member proving that a member recieved a letter, I don't know how to prove you did or did not receive something. The burden of proof would be on the sender. I know that is my responsibility when I send my 1040 to the IRS each year. It is sent by certified mail, return receipt so I have proof my return was filed in a timely fashion. Are you suggesting that if the IRS doesn't receive a tax return the taxpayer can demand that they (the IRS) needs to prove they didn't receive it?

Sorry, but I don't believe that "the check is in the mail" is up to the recipient to prove if it doesn't arrive - it's up to the sender to prove it's actually in the mail and the same goes for any documents that would affect an owner's right to use his or her property.

Ok, lets put a different spin on your analogy. The IRS says you must pay your taxes by April 15th, or file an extension. Those are the terms. If they don't recieve your tax payment, you are late. Period. You, the taxpayer must prove you mailed it. Want to file an extension, must be done by August. Period. If they don't recieve the paperwork, you are late on your taxes, and must pay fines, etc. Those are the terms. Now you must have documentation to prove you paid, or you filed an extension. Burden of proof is on the taxpayer. This seems no different than what DVD is doing now.

 

[disneymayz]

I am trying to understand the reason why people are making this so difficult. If you want another 15 years then pay if not then do not pay. The cost for me to extend will pay for itself in 1 visit. So I am getting 14 years free.

 

[Debbie H]

I am trying to understand the reason why people are making this so difficult. If you want another 15 years then pay if not then do not pay. The cost for me to extend will pay for itself in 1 visit. So I am getting 14 years free.

Because the legality of it all is in question. I am not going to turn over $30,000 or $50,000 without seeing further documentation. That's like buying that bridge in Brooklyn........

 

[BobH]

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For the people that don't seem to think this is an issue - folks Disney has just effectively devalued something that you own only 15 years into a 50 year contract. Why shouldn't people question what they are doing. I predict this extension practice will soon be started ont he other 2042 contracts as well. The discussion should really heat up then.

 

[Lisa P.]

The cost for me to extend will pay for itself in 1 visit. So I am getting 14 years free.

Do you think so? Suppose you took that money and put it into a decent investment, which you left alone for 35 years to earn interest. At the end of that 35 years, do you really think it would only get you 1 visit, paying cash? I would think that the compounded interest would make it far more valuable than that. This extension is paid in today's dollars (some people will even finance it and pay more!) but you get the commitment back to you to vacation 35-50 years from now. It may work for some people but be careful about oversimplifying this.

 

[tvwalsh]

When someone leases something, be it a car or a piece of property, I find it hard to imagine that they don't at once ask the seller (or at least ask themselves) what will happen if I want to keep the property for a longer time than I signed up for?

I certainly wondered, even while I was buying in June of 1992, whether or not DVC would offer extensions at some time in the future.

Did some of you think Disney would not charge for these extensions? Did any of you think that Disney would EVER sell ANYTHING at a low price?

Buy or don't buy. Quityourbellyaching.

 

[Pootle]

Buy or don't buy. Quityourbellyaching.

I find these discussions very helpful, unlike the remarks above - good vibes or not, and thank the posters for sharing their concerns about this proposed extension

 

[simzac]

Maybe we should all save the energy we are using on each other and barrage the President of the Disney Vacation Club, Jim Lewis, and our guides to provide more complete details on these changes.
For the people that don't seem to think this is an issue - folks Disney has just effectively devalued something that you own only 15 years into a 50 year contract. Why shouldn't people question what they are doing. I predict this extension practice will soon be started ont he other 2042 contracts as well. The discussion should really heat up then.

Devalued only if you plan to resell your ownership sometime in the future. And even then, only time will tell what that price will be anyway. There is no way anyone can accurately predict what resale prices are going to be, with or without the extension. JMO

 

[rsinj]

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[RobDoc]

Ok, lets put a different spin on your analogy. The IRS says you must pay your taxes by April 15th, or file an extension. Those are the terms. If they don't recieve your tax payment, you are late. Period. You, the taxpayer must prove you mailed it. Want to file an extension, must be done by August. Period. If they don't recieve the paperwork, you are late on your taxes, and must pay fines, etc. Those are the terms. Now you must have documentation to prove you paid, or you filed an extension. Burden of proof is on the taxpayer. This seems no different than what DVD is doing now.

Nope, in this case DVD would have to demonstrate that I was informed of these changes and what my responsibilities are. At this time I have a signed contract with DVC outlining my responsibilities and they have my signed documents in their file. They do not have my agreement to change any of the details of my contract and they must be able to show that I was made aware of any changes/responsibilities before they unilaterally make changes to my ability to use my ownership. With the IRS, it is my responsibility to report my income and make appropriate payment - thus the significance of certified mail. With DVC, it its their responsibility to inform me of these changes.

This will not be a problem for me as I have received the information and have returned my request for the necessary documents - but if I were to call
MS to make a reservation next March and was told that I won't be allowed to make a reservation I can assure you that DVC will need to be prepared to show that I was given timely opportunity to comply with any changes they have made. I will NOT have to prove that I didn't receive something from them, they will need to show I did receive it.

I would expect that you would also defend your right to use your membership if you called and were told you can't make a reservation because you failed to reply to a postcard they sent last March.

I am also confident that DVC will make every effort to contact all OKW owners - including certified mail and phone calls - before doing anything to jeopardize an owners ability to use his/her membership.

 

[rsinj]

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[disneymayz]

I only have 70 points so it is only costing me $1050. At 5% in 35 years it would be around $5800. That still would be the cost maybe less then the cost of a week in 2042.

 

[JimC]

I am trying to understand the reason why people are making this so difficult. If you want another 15 years then pay if not then do not pay. The cost for me to extend will pay for itself in 1 visit. So I am getting 14 years free.

I wonder the same thing. You pay and get a new deed taking you out to 2057 or you decline and assign the rights back to DVC for the period 2042 to 2057. I realize there is certain amount of legal formality that is involved, and possibly a notarized signature or two. But that is about it.

I know that I did not put this much effort into buying into the program -- I researched the program, read through what they gave me, satisfied myself that I was getting the correct points and resort at the correct price, signed and that was it. I did not bother with a detailed examination of each and every referenced document in the contract or in the tiny print document books. Maybe I am in the minority on that. Then again I don't read the fine print on most of the consumer purchases I make. If I did I would have no cell phone, no cable, no credit cards, no anything.........hmmmmm.....there are days when that has some appeal!

 

[DVC92]

I wonder the same thing. You pay and get a new deed taking you out to 2057 or you decline and assign the rights back to DVC for the period 2042 to 2057. I realize there is certain amount of legal formality that is involved, and possibly a notarized signature or two. But that is about it.

I know that I did not put this much effort into buying into the program -- I researched the program, read through what they gave me, satisfied myself that I was getting the correct points and resort at the correct price, signed and that was it. I did not bother with a detailed examination of each and every referenced document in the contract or in the tiny print document books. Maybe I am in the minority on that. Then again I don't read the fine print on most of the consumer purchases I make. If I did I would have no cell phone, no cable, no credit cards, no anything.........hmmmmm.....thre are days when that has some appeal!

True, once you have the necessary information made available to you and made your decision, the mere legal formalities are of no great consequence. However, that isn't the real issue as I have stated previously. The fact remains that the majority of OKW contracts do not have any extension clause in them. Therefore, IMHO DVC does not have the right to even undertake this aggressive action (i.e., transfer property to you without your consent). No member without an extension clause (assuming that such a clause is even legal) ever authorized DVD to vote in their behalf to change the termination date of their contract, which ultimately alters the nature of the Condominium and its maintenance through the years.

 

[dvcbrad]

DVC definitely helped me make my dcision today - not that it was ever in doubt ... why would I want to spend money on an OKW extension when I'll be needing the money to purchase new points at the just announced DVC Ko Olina?!

 

[JimC]

True, once you have the necessary information made available to you and made your decision, the mere legal formalities are of no great consequence. However, that isn't the real issue as I have stated previously. The fact remains that the majority of OKW contracts do not have any extension clause in them. Therefore, IMHO DVC does not have the right to even undertake this aggressive action (i.e., transfer property to you without your consent). No member without an extension clause (assuming that such a clause is even legal) ever authorized DVD to vote in their behalf to change the termination date of their contract, which ultimately alters the nature of the Condominium and its maintenance through the years.

I understand your position. We just differ in opinion regarding its legality.

 

[rsinj]

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[DVC92]

Wonderful! IMHO, you are wrong.

Why?

 

[Debbie H]

I agree with DVC92. I think the legality of it all is in question. There is nothing in our contract regarding an extension.