Anyone else watching the news for that freak Epstein's Creeper List?

[pigletto]

Um, ya kind of just said that. I even asked you if you'd wait for a verdict, and you doubled down. Now you're backtracking. Make up your mind.

And what "personal attacks?" I merely said that I hope no one close to you is falsely accused lest you hang them out to dry. That's not a personal attack. Jeez, dude, chill out.

Annnnd we’re done here. Nobody back tracked, I said what I said. We’re talking about the Jeffery Epstein trial, you made it about what I would do in my personal life, and I’m chill thanks, I just don’t agree with you.

Clearly you would wait for a verdict, about a previously convicted sex offender on trial against multiple accusers for operating a sex trafficking ring of teenagers. Because make no mistake THAT is what I said I would immediately diassociate myself from. The personal attack is mischaracterizing what I said as anything else to fit your agenda.

 

[cabanafrau]

Watching documentaries on Epstein, I could tell he was someone I would distance myself from, abuse or not. He was just a creepy person. A bad vibe.

Watching a documentary is different than experiencing genuine interaction with a person though. Ultimately even the most balanced of documentary is presented through a certain lens.

I do understand what you're saying and I'd like to think if I were in that position I could have quickly understood which way the wind was blowing and sussed him out, but I recognize that I'm likely similar to many people who probably knew him in various capacities and had no clue, even if they had an inkling they didn't care for the guy and couldn't put their finger on why. I always wonder about people in various cults, too. It seems so obvious in documentaries or books, but a lot of intelligent people get sucked in.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Let's also be clear here, the Epstein case only blew up because at the centre of it were money, sex, and celebrity - the three things we as a society love to gossip about (especially sex since we're so repressed). But the truth is that there are hundreds of other Epsteins out there and their victims aren't discussed in national newspapers. Whether it's the handsy uncle or the pedo priest or the baptist preacher, this type of thing happens all the time. Being committed to the cause of justice for the wronged is one thing, but waiting for a list to gossip about and point fingers is repugnant.

I don't know about that. Yes, the freaks are everywhere, but it is decidedly uncommon that they have private planes, a private island, host famous people in the city also home to the UN AND walk away from arrest with their trafficking business fully operational and 500 million estate intact, presumably proceeds from the rape tourism business he built. Can't do this with out a LOT of help.

 

[Ursula J]

Anyone who was there to exploit young girls needs to be arrested, tried and jailed. But, keep in mind that Epstein also was involved in philanthropy, finance and science, so some of the people on that list may have actually not known who they were dealing with. John Glenn was on the Epstein plane once, but I find it difficult to believe he was a predator. If any of our former presidents were violating young girls, they should be punished to the full extent of the law. My party loyalty, NVM which party, doesn’t supersede my sense of fundamental decency.

Exactly this-- no party affiliation could sway me from wanting the book thrown at these creeps.

 

[Lord Manhammer]

I don't know about that. Yes, the freaks are everywhere, but it is decidedly uncommon that they have private planes, a private island, host famous people in the city also home to the UN AND walk away from arrest with their trafficking business fully operational and 500 million estate intact, presumably proceeds from the rape tourism business he built. Can't do this with out a LOT of help.

Well ok that's a fair point. However so many priests escaped detection for decades and they had the power and the help of the Catholic Church.

 

[mousefan73]

It will most likely remain sealed until January 22 as one Jane Doe appealed because she “lives in a conservative country” and her name being released is a risk to her life. I think we all need to keep in mind that anyone named on this list is at the moment only guilty by association. Of course, Twitter and everyone else will try and accuse every name on the list without a fair trial. Some names are already known and previously released list from what her faces trial of course one can greatly assume if someone’s been flying back-and-forth many times, there might be something up or could just be someone traveling, hitching a ride and another person private jet seems like the super rich are all part of the same club in some strange way, but doesn’t mean everyone’s a pedophile.

It’s kind of disturbing reading online. How many people are either trolling or just assume that every name on this list is someone who’s a pedophile as many think that this list is some official pedophile list (that’s already been proven in court, which is not), it’s simply a flight log and evidence part of a bigger investigation.

 

[cabanafrau]

Ok, I'll go with it, let's say you are correct, I am doubtful but lets just say that out of all the everyday people arrested with incomes of under 100K every day a full 50% are afforded the use of the Doe term and that all the state appointed attorneys do this process daily. Lets take the position the use of this term is not a class and expensive lawyer thing.

What is the reason you are bringing this up on this thread?

You raised the issue. I merely responded with actual information I have observed occupationally.

I never said the number of cases is anywhere near the hyperbolic statistics you're citing. I merely said they are not extremely uncommon. I also stated they are various types of cases -- which means the reasons for the captioning varies.

I understand the repugnancy involved regarding Epstein. It is vital that behavior is repudiated in civilized society. That's not accomplished by muddying the waters and undermining confidence in our system of operating under rule of law by making sweeping, anecdotal indictments of processes with little to no information to back up the assertions.

 

[Dan Murphy]

And the finger pointing starts…

https://theathletic.com/5175873/202...9ZoUHOTLkr9i6oWgFqZEn0msY2t7TJMrMzmZraqjjqOJA

AR is a repetitive Bozo.

 

[Marrila]

It will most likely remain sealed until January 22 as one Jane Doe appealed because she “lives in a conservative country” and her name being released is a risk to her life. I think we all need to keep in mind that anyone named on this list is at the moment only guilty by association. Of course, Twitter and everyone else will try and accuse every name on the list without a fair trial. Some names are already known and previously released list from what her faces trial of course one can greatly assume if someone’s been flying back-and-forth many times, there might be something up or could just be someone traveling, hitching a ride and another person private jet seems like the super rich are all part of the same club in some strange way, but doesn’t mean everyone’s a pedophile.

It’s kind of disturbing reading online. How many people are either trolling or just assume that every name on this list is someone who’s a pedophile as many think that this list is some official pedophile list (that’s already been proven in court, which is not), it’s simply a flight log and evidence part of a bigger investigation.

We should leave open the possibility that the concern for "Jane Doe" is her reputation, rather than risk to life. Just to add, many of us live in conservative areas. That's not unusual.
So we shall see. Lots of possibilities.

 

[easyas123]

Now it looks like two folks who didn't want their names published have gotten a short reprieve, but the remainder of the list may be released between "now & then" with then presumably being 22 January.

 

[mousefan73]

We should leave open the possibility that the concern for "Jane Doe" is her reputation, rather than risk to life. Just to add, many of us live in conservative areas. That's not unusual.
So we shall see. Lots of possibilities.

From what I read, she needs to actually proof “risk of actual life” I believe she’s had death threats, and she needs to submit those. If it was only concerned for her reputation, the courts wouldn’t have put a hold. Which makes it more interesting because somehow she’s known.

 

[LuvOrlando]

You raised the issue. I merely responded with actual information I have observed occupationally.

I never said the number of cases is anywhere near the hyperbolic statistics you're citing. I merely said they are not extremely uncommon. I also stated they are various types of cases -- which means the reasons for the captioning varies.

I understand the repugnancy involved regarding Epstein. It is vital that behavior is repudiated in civilized society. That's not accomplished by muddying the waters and undermining confidence in our system of operating under rule of law by making sweeping, anecdotal indictments of processes with little to no information to back up the assertions.

I see, so it is I that is the offense because I won't let the waters lay still and clear and insist on, what? I am muddying a clean version of reality by demanding the truth be dragged out from the coverup of mud? Well, I suppose that is one way to look at it. I'll leave you to it, I asked why you brought a prior topic up up and now I know.

 

[GAN]

I'm really mixed on this list. It sounds as though there are people that could be on the list that were not involved in harming young girls. In other words, some were possibly tied to Epstein's more altruistic and charitable ventures and shouldn't be branded as something vile and criminal. Some may argue guilt by association regardless of activities, but it does sound like there are people with ties that weren't involved in the more scandalous activities. That being said, anyone tied to the exploitation and harm of the young girls should be exposed and face criminal investigation/punishment. If that list involves political leaders, prominent entertainers, clergy, etc. then so be it.

I haven't followed the "news" on the list, but I'm not opposed to its release ....but agree with your sentiment. This was a person with lots of ties to prominent individuals, without question some people had no clue of his other side. Where exactly did the list come from -how was it compiled?

 

[mikehn]

Football is almost done, baseball isnt till spring, so a little entertainment to fill the dead zone is fine.

 

[GreatLakes]

I won't really seek it out but I am all for anyone associated with him being outed and letting them explain what their relationship was with him. Based on some of the stories about the parties it really doesn't sound like there was much hiding what was going on. I do hope there is some distinction made between people with purely business contact with him and those in his personal inner circle.

At the end of the day I don't really have any sympathy for anyone that was associated with him at all. The guy was a monster and his suicide shouldn't shield anyone from what they witnessed or participated in.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I haven't followed the "news" on the list, but I'm not opposed to its release ....but agree with your sentiment. This was a person with lots of ties to prominent individuals, without question some people had no clue of his other side. Where exactly did the list come from -how was it compiled?

I believe a lot of it is from flight logs. Epstein had a pilot who flew for him for 30 yrs who testified.

I’ll be interested in seeing the timelines. I mean, Jeffrey Epstein was convicted in 2008. People who associated with him after that knew, for sure, he was a convicted sex trafficker, right?

Prior to that, well, maybe some did not. Hard to say, for sure. Someone who flew once with him on a business trip may have a better case (to say they didn’t know anything) than someone who was with him regularly.

From Wiki:
In 2005, police in Palm Beach, Florida, began investigating Epstein after a parent reported that he had sexually abused her 14-year-old daughter. Federal officials had identified thirty-six girls, some as young as 14-years-old, whom Epstein had allegedly sexually abused.[7] Epstein pleaded guilty and was convicted in a Florida state court of procuring a child for prostitution and of soliciting a prostitute.[4][8] He was convicted of only these two crimes as part of a controversial plea deal, and served almost thirteen months in custody but with extensive work release.[9][10]

Epstein was arrested again on July 6, 2019, on federal charges for the sex trafficking of minors in Florida and New York.[11][12] He died in his jail cell on August 10, 2019… Since Epstein's death precluded the possibility of pursuing criminal charges against him, a judge dismissed all criminal charges on August 29, 2019.

Epstein had a decades-long association with the British socialite Ghislaine Maxwell, leading to her 2021 conviction on U.S. federal charges of sex trafficking and conspiracy for helping him procure girls, including a 14-year-old, for child sexual abuse and prostitution.

Charges filed against JE in NY, from the DOJ:
https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/press-release/file/1180481/download

 

[LuvOrlando]

Well ok that's a fair point. However so many priests escaped detection for decades and they had the power and the help of the Catholic Church.

What? Why are you deflecting? Yes, they suck, they all suck, all should face firing squads in you want to know the truth about how I feel about the matter. Monsters in garb are not what they pretend to be, this holds no sway with me at all.

Legit though, what is your reason for bringing them up? Do you think it will make me less angry or something? If so why is this your goal? I really want to know, please explain. Certainly, you must have a reason.

 

[GAN]

I believe a lot of it is from flight logs. Epstein had a pilot who flew for him for 30 yrs who testified.

I’ll be interested in seeing the timelines. I mean, Jeffrey Epstein was convicted in 2008. People who associated with him after that knew, for sure, he was a convicted sex trafficker, right?

Not defending anyone, but I wouldn't necessarily assume all absolutely understood the details. In your world and mine possibly, sure(although I had no idea until a few years ago) -but these are people with a lot more on their minds and are more likely to read stories in WSJ than some general news outlet ...so I'd say its still possible. Or at the very least, a very small window of possibility. So this "list" isn't the be all end all of the people involved -in my mind it would require PROOF before someone innocent is wrongfully accused. But that's one persons opinion.....

 

[Pea-n-Me]

What will this list show?

https://www.axios.com/2024/01/02/jeffrey-epstein-list-names-court-documents-associates#

Some of the names, a handful of which Preska has ordered remain sealed, will include alleged co-conspirators, alleged perpetrators and alleged victims and witnesses, per ABC. The names of Epstein's former employees will also be included.

https://www.newsnationnow.com/crime/jeffrey-epstein-list-associates/

The names of more than 150 people who were mentioned in court documents from a civil case filed by one of Jeffrey Epstein’s victims are set to be unsealed.

In December 2023, Judge Loretta Preska signed an order for the release of the names, including those of sex abuse victims and people who only have a passing connection to Epstein. The documents come from a civil lawsuit Virginia Giuffre filed, alleging Epstein and his former girlfriend Ghislaine Maxwell pressured her as a teenager into sexual encounters with powerful men.

Fudali is specifically interested to see if the anticipated documents detail who was involved with Epstein after his conviction in 2008, where the disgraced financier pleaded guilty to soliciting prostitution and soliciting prostitution from a minor.

“He had a slap on the wrist punishment as part of the plea deal, but that was public. That wasn’t confidential. So, I am interested to see any names any high-profile individuals who remained associated with Epstein to any certain degree after 2008,” Fudali said.

 

[adkkev]

From the Associated Press:

”The people named in the records include many of Epstein's accusers, members of his staff who told their stories to tabloid newspapers, people who served as witnesses at Maxwell's trial, people who were mentioned in passing during depositions but aren't accused of anything salacious, and people who investigated Epstein, including prosecutors, a journalist and a detective.”

So … a “creeper’s list”?