Anyone else think enough is enough... ?

[mom2rtk]

That’s not really working out for us at the moment. I’d feel a whole lot better if I had much stronger social safety nets.

Who wouldn't? They still have to be paid for.

 

[Disneypro1]

That’s not really working out for us at the moment. I’d feel a whole lot better if I had much stronger social safety nets.

I think we have more than enough safety nets. Way more than enough. But. Even if I agreed with you about that. You need massive taxes to fund those safety nets. And if people aren’t working. Then you don’t have money to fund them. Everything the government has is through we the people working and paying taxes. We have to and must re open the nation soon. And we will. The economy was booming. We can get that back. No doubt.

 

[cabanafrau]

....

So if we fast track "reopening" and back to normal....how will the cycle of workers infecting other workers and clients be helpful to the businesses?

Are you suggesting it's actually of value to a business that their customer base lives?

 

[Praying Colonel]

OK, I'm coming to the defense of the OP. TO the TLDR crowd, SHAME ON YOU!

...

I'm OK with social distancing, what I am not OK with is social SHAMING. Just when is enough going to be enough for you, the social shamers? What yardstick will you use?

The irony, it burns.

 

[daisy2013]

First let me say, I completely understand that this is serious.... and in no way am trying to minimize this... and I agree that we need to use all pre-cautions, and stay home if we are sick, and take care of the elderly and people with compromise immune systems... which is something that I would hope that people are doing daily... like washing their hands, constantly... with or without the flu, we will need to change how we go about our daily lives... So Respectfully...

People need to go back to work.... so that they can take care of their families, and kids... put food on the table, pay the light bill, the mortgage, the car and insurance, and cover the basic's... I know most people are getting to the point that they would rather take their chances than loose everything that they have worked for... and the ability to provide

The government and courts systems need to be in active, they are in place to protect us as well... My neighbors cousin, future ex-husband, just kicked in her door, 6 hours after they let him out of jail for Domestic Violence, they only could arrest him for kicking in the door, and being drunk and resisting arrest... the order for protection is sitting on a Judges desk waiting for him to sign it, since mid Feb... until them the order is not valid... so more than likely he will be out in 48 to 72 hours... the poor police officers really can't do anything for her, until the order for protection is sign off on, once its signed off if he violates it then they can keep him in jail... so she is a nurse so she is needed, so she is going to have to go into hiding... couch serf with friends or stay at the hospital... so who is protecting her?... while she is taking care of sick people?

My friends sister in law has a hair salon... and she is either going to go against the order and open back up... or she will loose everything... she has made plans to open back up, On May 1st... whether the order is lifted or not.... she spent money to have a salon deep cleaned, and her DH put up partitions and they will be working 14 feet apart, staggered appointments, and is changing her hours, 6:30 am to 9:00 pm and only allowing 2 stylist to work at a time, no one waiting in the sitting area, by appointment only... mask and gloves for the stylist and for the clients... She has 6 employees... 3 of them are single mothers...the stimulus and unemployment will not make it in time to help them... they must work, need to work to provide for their kids... She worried that people would not want to come back... they are completely booked for the first 2 weeks in May... even though she really did not have it, they gave 100 dollar gift card to wal-mart to their employee's to help them out...

Our good friend is more than like going to loose her cute little boutique that she built from nothing... 14 years of work gone... poof... Everything that she purchased for Spring, Mother's Day, and early Summer is sitting in the back room of her boutique, and she is hoping that she will be able to just get what she paid for it...all of it is paid for, and she can not return it... in the next 3 or 4 weeks she has to pay for late summer and early fall, and some seasonal and holiday items... and if she cancels the order she will not have any enough merchandise going moving into the the second half of the year... plus she worry's if people will have any money to spend...

While we see heartwarming stories on the news, of landlords giving their tenants a break...while that's nice... most folks are not so understanding... why don't they put those stories on the evening news... my DD got a notice from the apartment complex that they live in that, that they just moved into last month... that there will not be any allowance for late rent... Thankfully my SIL works in essential services, so he is working, my DD is not working and she and my grandson are at home, and they have some savings... and of course we will help them if they need it... they are standing on their own... and still paying their all their basic need... except... for The preschool is closed where our Grandson goes, is demanding payment, and sent out threatening letters, to either pay or their place will be dropped... which of course they can't pay without her working... but if school returns to class he will need to finish pre K, he is doing the on-line thing... so I told her that we would work it out..he goes to kindergarten in the fall... and will need just after school care at a different day care... and yet she understands that the daycare is just trying to make ends meet... So while no one is at fault... what do you do?

My whole thing is... For goodness sake... we are Americans... we don't run and hide... and cower in the corner wringing our hands together... We fight... we are a nation of people willing to fight to protect each other.... we pull together, dig in, stand together and prove that we can do anything... how can we let the the this flu beat us all down... take everything we work for, the ability to provide for our families away... the right to go to church...spend time with our loved ones... and just stand there and watch it all disappear...
We can still work and provide for our families... while it may look different...we are so good at getting the problems solved...
We are All American... we fought the British, with a rag tag army for our freedom, Women went to work during the World Wars, we pulled together.... we fought back against those who came for us on 911, hunted them down and dealt with them... We make it happen...
We don't negotiate with terrorist... why are we negotiating with a virus?.... and letting a virus send us scurrying and into hiding... when we can still look for a vaccine, and other therapy's and help each other without destroying our economy... in order to fight we need a strong economy...

So when do we draw the line and say enough is enough...?

Please don't make this political... there is enough of that on TV daily... please no flames either... Just my own personal opinion...

Sending pixie dust and love to everyone...

In my state the hair salon would be closed by the department of health and owner likely fined. As would the clothing store. Does is suck. Absolutely. I expect to be laid off any day because of the nature of my firm's business. I will apply for unemployment which is available to the single mother hairdressers. Although I do wonder how will feed their kids if they are sick or in the hospital or worse. Although for me the worst-case scenario is my child in the hospital alone and sick possibly hooked up to a ventilator. Because the parents don't get to go with the kids when they are admitted.
People need to get creative - a photographer friend is doing porch sessions - she shoots from a distance after setting up a porch for Easter, birthday whatever. Some hairdressers are putting together coloring kits for clients that they drop off on the porch and then do a video chat to walk clients through steps - same with simple hair cuts. The clothing store can put items online and offer local noncontact delivery. She probably won't make as much but could keep some cash flow.
This is not the flu. This is not a seasonal virus that will run its course with few casualties. This is a pandemic. It will impact every part of life for a long time.

 

[KayKayJS]

I mean, having a small business doesn't do much for you if you're dead.

 

[RamblingMad]

No. Lift the order. So they can work. I get a few weeks. But at some point soon. People have to work. Even a nation a wealthy as the US. Can’t pay everyone to stay home for very long. Not long at all. And certainly not universal income. All the money the Treasury has is through taxes. Which is paid by working. With out working. There is no Treasury.

If only we had higher taxes and social safety nets like the rest of the developed world, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. But here we are pretty much screwed with the models saying we have to stay put through the end of May at least.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

I can't even begin to know how people who can't work feel. I understand your frustration, though.

Have you considering looking into a gig economy type job? Maybe there is a skill you can use to get work through fiverr?

 

[mnrose]

Any post about this which includes the word "flu" as a comparison to what Covid-19 actually is causes me to immediately ignore everything else. That has been completely debunked for MONTHS now, yet some people stubbornly cling to it, meaning they are stubbornly refusing to deal in reality. Therefore, ignoring them seems to be the best solution. I'm also very tired of the "it's either the economy or lives." Premature "opening" of the economy is also going to be very destructive of our economy. People are NOT going to go on about their daily lives as if nothing is happening as the bodies pile up in the corner. They aren't going to flock back to restaurants and stores. They aren't going to be jumping on planes. If our hospitals are overwhelmed, with refrigerator trucks backed up to hold the bodies, people are going to notice, don't you think? Most reputable economists see this. It's a pipe dream if you think life goes on as normal just because you want it to.

 

[Disneypro1]

I mean, having a small business doesn't do much for you if you're dead.

Bit see that’s not accurate. There is so many business STILL open. Big grocery stores. Little grocery stores. Pharmacies. Tire stores. Car parts stores. Car mechanic and sales. Etc. so many places still considered essential. Homes are still being built. Landscaping being done. Yard mowing business. So why just punish the small shop s or so that’s not considered essential. We all aren’t dying from the essential ones being open.... any business is essential. Any

 

[3threebabies]

How do the folks that can’t work from home make money with a stay at home order? This solves that problem.

I truly wish it were that simple, but isn’t just about money, though. Nothing is monocausal nor resolved with a singular action. Universal basic income does not affect goods not produced and services not provided. Someone still has to provide essential services and produce essential goods, and some nonessential goods and services become essential when ignored...

 

[sam_gordon]

Those of you saying "keep it shut down", do you mean indefinitely? Just until there's a vaccine (so summer of 2021)? Don't tell me "herd immunity", because that would be years.

 

[rigs32]

I wish they would release those stats. Like how many ppl with hypertension under 60 have actually died.

I just started reading this thread and I'm not sure if anyone has responded to you, but the NY fatality data lists co-morbidity by age. Almost all deaths of those under 60 were people with high blood pressure or diabetes.

https://covid19tracker.health.ny.go...-19Tracker-Map?:embed=yes&:toolbar=no&:tabs=n

 

[FlightlessDuck]

We all aren’t dying from the essential ones being open....

https://www.wdrb.com/news/shepherds...cle_af04d8c0-787b-11ea-a312-dbe1bd107f79.html
https://ny.eater.com/2020/4/7/21211876/westchester-trader-joes-staffer-dies-due-to-covid-19
https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-h...ers-coronavirus-symptoms-including-500-nurses
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/927976

 

[mnrose]

Those of you saying "keep it shut down", do you mean indefinitely? Just until there's a vaccine (so summer of 2021)? Don't tell me "herd immunity", because that would be years.

Till the curve has been flattened. Till we have useable treatments. Till we have antibody testing. Any of those. All of those. I predict functionally, through summer. I know I won't be going out to do much of anything, lifting of closures or not, until some of the above occurs.

 

[cabanafrau]

Bit see that’s not accurate. There is so many business STILL open. Big grocery stores. Little grocery stores. Pharmacies. Tire stores. Car parts stores. Car mechanic and sales. Etc. so many places still considered essential. Homes are still being built. Landscaping being done. Yard mowing business. So why just punish the small shop s or so that’s not considered essential. We all aren’t dying from the essential ones being open.... any business is essential. Any

Some people still need mass transit to reach their essential jobs, or even to have access to basic necessities of life like groceries. A bus driver in our metro area has died from the virus. Law enforcement is essential and several of those have died in our area as well. Essential medical professionals all around the world have become gravely ill and/or died -- notably including a Chinese doctor who tried in vain to raise the alarm months ago.

Those people mattered greatly to their loved ones and to the communities they served.

 

[Disneypro1]

https://www.wdrb.com/news/shepherds...cle_af04d8c0-787b-11ea-a312-dbe1bd107f79.html
https://ny.eater.com/2020/4/7/21211876/westchester-trader-joes-staffer-dies-due-to-covid-19
https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-h...ers-coronavirus-symptoms-including-500-nurses
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/927976

And people die driving to work everyday also. Or hurt in industrial accidents. I mean the list goes on for anything you want to use it for.
I’m a firefighter medic. I could die tomorrow. But i still have to work to feed the kids. And have the things we want.
To have the things in life I want. I take that risk.

 

[daisy2013]

Bit see that’s not accurate. There is so many business STILL open. Big grocery stores. Little grocery stores. Pharmacies. Tire stores. Car parts stores. Car mechanic and sales. Etc. so many places still considered essential. Homes are still being built. Landscaping being done. Yard mowing business. So why just punish the small shop s or so that’s not considered essential. We all aren’t dying from the essential ones being open.... any business is essential. Any

we aren't dying because those are the only ones open with limitations. My state - no nonessential construction - essentially infrastructure jobs and only if the contractor has a plan for it to be done safely. Many of the small businesses are eligible for the relief package just passed. And the way many of these businesses do transactions have changed. Here you have to call up tell them what you want, pay for it, and they will either leave it outside their shop or deliver it to your car trunk with little to no contact. Grocery stores have limited hours, limited path you can walk in, no more deli or speciality meat department, plexiglass up by the registers. No hairdressers are not essential. My hair can go grey. I can live in the clothes I have for a few months. My kids don't need new toys right now.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

And people die driving to work everyday also.

So we are dying from them being open, then. But you're ok with that up to a certain percent.

 

[RamblingMad]

I just started reading this thread and I'm not sure if anyone has responded to you, but the NY fatality data lists co-morbidity by age. Almost all deaths of those under 60 were people with high blood pressure or diabetes.

https://covid19tracker.health.ny.go...-19Tracker-Map?:embed=yes&:toolbar=no&:tabs=n

There are a lot of people in this country with diabetes.