Anyone else getting a little annoyed?

[5forDiz]

Back to my original point about about renting points... the site says, "There is only availability at OKW and SSR". It makes it seem obvious that OKW and SSR are not filled and the other resorts are.

Also, on the rent board the SSR are renting for less per point than others, such as BLT.

I enjoy the fact that I keep getting blasted for using my opinion when I am the only one to give any facts.

What facts have you given ??? You have given your interpretation of

various things which is fine and you can call them facts if you want

but that does not mean anyone else needs to agree with you so get over it.

That site renting points may have a preference to attempt bookings
at OKW and SSR because that is where they tend to have the most
success booking but that does not mean other resorts are FILLED.

BLT is renting for more $ per point than SSR?? - WOW ! no surprise there
because it is the newest DVC resort about to open. So what does this prove
specific to SSR ??

Above two statements are my opinion, interpretation, etc. - - I am
certainly not going to elevate them to FACTUAL INFO nor insist that is how
anyone else here view them.....same goes for your posts.

 

[tjkraz]

Back before SSR, OKW probably was the least popular. It didn't get criticism, but it was the most available, and there wasn't the terrible imbalance that there is today. If we count VWL as a walking distance resort, then the pre-SSR mix was 60 percent hotel/amusement park/walking distance units, 40 percent spread out condo units. Based on usage patterns, Disney owed it to the members to try to get that ratio more to a 70-30 mix to even out demand.

Of course you're conveniently ignoring the fact that in 1991-1995 Disney Vacation Club was 100% condo-style units. And from 1996 (when BWV opened) until 2001 it was 60% condo-style units.

Until Disney Vacation Development closes up shop and declares "well, that's it folks!" there is always going to be some ebb and flow in the percentages. Clearly there is an audience for both condo-style and hotel-style properties. The route Disney takes with any particular construction project will depend upon many variables including available resources, infrastructure, cost and demand. Any perception as to "what is best for members" is both subjective and pretty far down on their list of concerns.

 

[tjkraz]

Once again, I am not saying that everyone hates SSR and the features there (spa, golf, DTD, etc.), BUT on an average day there is 44,000 guest that go to the MK alone. I would love to see the line of 44,000 people wainting to get a facial.

Walt Disney World has about 5000 guest rooms & villas within walking distance (or monorail) of a theme park. And they have 20,000 - 25,000 rooms which rely solely on bus service. So clearly being within a stone's throw of a park is not the be-all, end-all of the on-site vacation experience.

 

[Goofy's apprentice]

Good Lord ! Is this still going on?

I guess it's been a while since we had a SSR-bashing thread.....

As an SSR owner we have stayed there many times and love it. We also love many of the other resorts and stay at them as well. We pick the other resorts, not because we don't want SSR, but because we want to try the others. Depending on when we go and who with that's how we choose. We have always managed to switch resorts when desired. Sometimes we waitlist, sometimes it's available. We all signed on knowing that home-resort advantage is only for before the 7 months. Every new resort changes the mix. If I have managed BWV and BCV for Food & Wine and VWL at two months out, the system can't be totally broken.

Why do we switch at 7 months? Because we can....get over it and find a new something to argue about. It's a shame when boards that have so many knowledgable posters and give such good information degrade to bickering like this. Let's discuss something that results in constructive suggestions.

 

[theww228]

Walt Disney World has about 5000 guest rooms & villas within walking distance (or monorail) of a theme park. And they have 20,000 - 25,000 rooms which rely solely on bus service. So clearly being within a stone's throw of a park is not the be-all, end-all of the on-site vacation experience.

The funny thing is that the 5,000 rooms that are within walking or monorail distance of the parks are the highest priced. GF, poly, CR, WL, YC, BC, BW

Higher demand = higher price
What are the other "deluxe" resorts other than OKW and SSR that are not close to a theme park?

 

[logan115]

The funny thing is that the 5,000 rooms that are within walking or monorail distance of the parks are the highest priced. GF, poly, CR, WL, YC, BC, BW

Higher demand = higher price
What are the other "deluxe" resorts other than OKW and SSR that are not close to a theme park?

Vero Beach and Hilton Head

Could throw in AKV as you need to take a bus to get from that resort to any park as well if we want to get technical.......

Chris

 

[going/again]

When the points are going as low as $6/pt at SSR I would say the law of supply and demand is alive and working. Let me know when you see points at BCV for $6/pt.

$6 dollars a point at either I would still take ssr

 

[tjkraz]

The funny thing is that the 5,000 rooms that are within walking or monorail distance of the parks are the highest priced. GF, poly, CR, WL, YC, BC, BW

Higher demand = higher price

Guest demand and pricing are just two elements to a much larger equation. Do you have any facts to support an assertion that--given published pricing--the Grand Floridian has a higher occupancy level than Pop Century or that more choose the Wilderness Lodge over Coronado Springs?

(Anecdotal evidence would suggest otherwise since POP successfully fills over 2000 rooms nightly while GF tops-out at 900.)

Walt Disney World offers a great variety of accommodations and every day guests are making unique decisions based upon their own personal preferences. Factors include distance to theme park, style of resort, accommodations offered, resort amenities and certainly cost.

Nevertheless, Disney's cash rates for SSR and OKW are about 10% less than the likes of BWV and BCV. And DVC members will similarly pay 10-15% fewer points to stay at those locations.

What are the other "deluxe" resorts other than OKW and SSR that are not close to a theme park?

Old Key West and Saratoga Springs are not, nor have they ever been, classified as "Disney Deluxe Resorts."

 

[going/again]

Annie,
they build a humongous resort with terrible transportation and dining issues.

Dining issues, you cant be serious with that comment its a short walk to DTD with all the restaurants there, 15 minute walk to the crossroads plenty of choice there to, nice restaurant on site.

 

[TDC Nala]

Not sure I get the dining issues either - DTD has loads of restaurants - unless you are talking about counter service breakfasts, or the dining plan, as a lot of DTD restaurants don't accept the dining plan (that's an advantage they have as far as I would be concerned)

 

[theww228]

If you're presenting that site as "proof" for your opinion consider this:

Why in the world would a site that rents DVC units for profit, and has the been added to the contracts of owners as an "associate," giving the site owner access to the DVC owners account to reserve and cancel reservations, reserve rooms at OKW or SSR in the first place if they were not popular locations? If you're saying this person has the ability to reserve from multiple contracts purely on the speculation of renting that reservationin the future, it really makes no sense to make spec reservations at those resorts if those resorts are unpopular, does it?

Once it is the in 7 month period they all become "DVC" points, not resort specific. The point is that when it gets close to a booking date (<60 days) the only resorts with open rooms are OKW and SSR. At that time the points (regardless of which resort they came from) need to be used at OKW or SSR because every where else (more popular resorts) are already booked.

You seem to be more concerned about letting everyone know that the site owner becomes an associate member. What does that have to do with anything? It is like you keep saying, "look there is a man behind the curtain". Who cares?

Bottom line... With short notice there are only rooms at OKW and SSR. Why is everyone surprised and upset about it?

 

[Sammie]

Higher demand = higher price

Sorry but not accurate at Disney, higher demand at Disney equals All Star, and Pop Century which have the highest occupany levels on property.

We all appreciate and understand some do not see the appeal to SSR and OKW, but these discussions would not persist if some would not try to present opinions as facts and act like only the village idiot would actually like SSR.

That is what gets everyone's hackles up.

Comments like there is no theme, does Saratoga Springs, NY not exist, or no dining options, there are as many or more within walking distance than most Disney resorts.

I can appreciate that the theme or dining choices might not appeal to everyone, and would respect that opinion, but to say they don't even exist, is, well ridiculous.

Now y'all carry on, I have laundry to do.

 

[theww228]

Guest demand and pricing are just two elements to a much larger equation. Do you have any facts to support an assertion that--given published pricing--the Grand Floridian has a higher occupancy level than Pop Century or that more choose the Wilderness Lodge over Coronado Springs?

(Anecdotal evidence would suggest otherwise since POP successfully fills over 2000 rooms nightly while GF tops-out at 900.)

Walt Disney World offers a great variety of accommodations and every day guests are making unique decisions based upon their own personal preferences. Factors include distance to theme park, style of resort, accommodations offered, resort amenities and certainly cost.

Economics 101: The higher the demand the higher the price. The location, dining options, style, shops, etc of the GF gives it enough demand to some guests to part with $500+/night. If Disney charged $500+/night for a room at POP it would sit empty every night. If the GF was sitting empty every night they would need to lower the price. Market demand sets prices. From an economic stand point things with a higer price tag have more "demand". Yes, there might be someone who prefers a Ford Taurus over a 7 series BMW, but from an economic standpoint the BMW is in more demand and thus the higher price. The fact that Ford might sell 20 times the number of the BMW does not mean that the BMW is less in demand. The issue is the DVC is saying that the Ford and the BMW are very equal in value.

Old Key West and Saratoga Springs are not, nor have they ever been, classified as "Disney Deluxe Resorts."

This doesn't really help the arguement that SSR is on par with other DVC resorts. Some things are best left unsaid.


Many people have been saying SSR is popular because of the spa and no one cares about the proximity the other resorts have to the theme parks. Maybe real estate agents will change their slogan from "Location, location, location" to "Spa, spa, spa".

 

[tjkraz]

Once it is the in 7 month period they all become "DVC" points, not resort specific. The point is that when it gets close to a booking date (<60 days) the only resorts with open rooms are OKW and SSR. At that time the points (regardless of which resort they came from) need to be used at OKW or SSR because every where else (more popular resorts) are already booked.

While I agree with your bottom line, the logic behind your "facts" is still flawed.

As I pointed out many pages ago, even with demand identical for all properties, SSR and OKW would be the last to fill simply because they are the largest. Using your own figures...

OKW - 761 Max. Available Rooms
BWV - 532 Max. Available Rooms
VWL - 181 Max. Available Rooms
BCV - 282 Max. Available Rooms
SSR - 1320 Max. Available Rooms
AKV - 708 Max. Available Rooms.
BLT - 428 Max. Available Rooms

...if 600 people want to stay at each DVC resort, BWV, BCV, BLT and VWL are all full. AKV, OKW and SSR will still have vacancies.

So even with EQUAL DEMAND, SSR and OKW will be the last to fill. The reality that they are often the last to fill proves absolutely nothing about the popularity of one resort over another.

 

[theww228]

While I agree with your bottom line, the logic behind your "facts" is still flawed.

As I pointed out many pages ago, even with demand identical for all properties, SSR and OKW would be the last to fill simply because they are the largest. Using your own figures...

OKW - 761 Max. Available Rooms
BWV - 532 Max. Available Rooms
VWL - 181 Max. Available Rooms
BCV - 282 Max. Available Rooms
SSR - 1320 Max. Available Rooms
AKV - 708 Max. Available Rooms.
BLT - 428 Max. Available Rooms

...if 600 people want to stay at each DVC resort, BWV, BCV, BLT and VWL are all full. AKV, OKW and SSR will still have vacancies.

So even with EQUAL DEMAND, SSR and OKW will be the last to fill. The reality that they are often the last to fill proves absolutely nothing about the popularity of one resort over another.

If they were all equal then there would be:
4 rooms at OKW
3 rooms at BWV
1 room at VWL
2 rooms at BCV
7 rooms at SSR
4 rooms at AKV
2 rooms at BLT

However this is not the case. When calling for a last minute ressie MS will tell you that they have a lot of rooms at OKW and SSR and the rest are booked up. If they were equal, once one resort booked up, the rest should be booked at the same instant. Once someone books the last room at VWL, there should be 2 people booking at BLT and 7 people booking at SSR at the same time to close out all the rooms at the same time. If they are truly equal... which they are not.

 

[theww228]

Sorry but not accurate at Disney, higher demand at Disney equals All Star, and Pop Century which have the highest occupany levels on property.

Now y'all carry on, I have laundry to do.

Sorry to bust your bubble, but you are confusing volume and demand. There are lot of people who want to spend $105/night at a value resort. There are fewer people who want to spend $700/night for a MK view from the GF. If people are willing to spend $700/night they see the "demand" for the room. Would you say that staying in the castle is less in demand than staying at POP because it is only 1 family that is staying there and not thousands like POP? Absurd.

You statement is like saying, "People like McDonald's hamburgers better than Kobe beef because they sell a lot more hamburgers every day than Kobe beef."

 

[Chuck S]

If they were all equal then there would be:
4 rooms at OKW
3 rooms at BWV
1 room at VWL
2 rooms at BCV
7 rooms at SSR
4 rooms at AKV
2 rooms at BLT

However this is not the case. When calling for a last minute ressie MS will tell you that they have a lot of rooms at OKW and SSR and the rest are booked up. If they were equal, once one resort booked up, the rest should be booked at the same instant. Once someone books the last room at VWL, there should be 2 people booking at BLT and 7 people booking at SSR at the same time to close out all the rooms at the same time. If they are truly equal... which they are not.

Nope, not at all. If, for example, 25% of all owners, regardles of their home resort, wanted to trade out to other resorts, and assuming room numbers would be equal percentages to the number of owners, then SSR and OKW would naturally have more owners trading out than VWL or BCV, and likewise, VWL or BCV would have fewer rooms available for a larger number SSR and OKW owners. The fact that OKW and SSR are the last to fill up is simply a function of larger resort sizes, not an indication of popularity.

 

[mac_tlc]

I can't believe I just spent the last 40 minutes reading 11 pages of posts!!!! After about 6 pages, I was getting pretty good at anticipating the next two or three responses!!

It is amazing how some can form fact from opinion.

FACT : Last week, I just reserved a Magic Kingdom view 1 bdr for August 10-11 at BLT, while AKV 1 bdr was N/A, as was OKW.
So, should we now conclude that OKW is more popular than BLT? If it wasn't for the rest of the travelling party, I would have preferred OKW, at half the points.

I agree with tjkraz that the shear number of rooms affects the resulting availability a lot of the time. If all resorts had identical demand, and there are 7 on-site resorts, every seventh reservation request would be for the same resort. The resorts with fewer rooms would undoubtedly be full first.

Here's to the swamp-infested , jungle known as OKW !!

mac_tlc

 

[toocherie]

very odd that my siggy is not in prior post--expecially when I asked you to look at it!! Hopefully it shows here!! haha

OT--my signature was having issues yesterday too, but seems to be working today.

On topic: really I think the OP's complaint is that he/she doesn't have the flexibility to do last-minute bookings anymore and get wherever they want. That just is not reality in the timeshare world and the people who have owned for a long time got used to the perk of being able to book late and are now missing it. Someone else posted previously that whether there had been SSR or several mini-resorts built the effect would be the same--more people booking for the same time periods which will cause more demand at the smaller DVCs. Remember too that the original DVC members are (ahem) "aging" and so are retiring and able to go at non-peak times too.

My question is that if someone doesn't like their home resort why not sell it and buy where you want to stay? (which is the prime advice on the board) Then you would have the 11-month advantage and most likely not have an issue.

Yes, I own at SSR and I do get my hackles up when people put it down--but I have only stayed there and loved it so far--but would like to try the other resorts too at some point. Just as the OP doesn't like WL and chooses to stay elsewhere. I actually like my home resort but would like to try a different experience.

 

[theww228]

Nope, not at all. If, for example, 25% of all owners, regardles of their home resort, wanted to trade out to other resorts, and assuming room numbers would be equal percentages to the number of owners, then SSR and OKW would naturally have more owners trading out than VWL or BCV, and likewise, VWL or BCV would have fewer rooms available for a larger number SSR and OKW owners. The fact that OKW and SSR are the last to fill up is simply a function of larger resort sizes, not an indication of popularity.

Nope.

If they were all equal then would all still book up at the same time, even if 50% of all members trade out.

Think of it this way:
There are 100 couples at a dance and the gentlemen are all wearing black.
There are 100 girls with dresses
18 are wearing orange
13 are wearing blue
4 are wearing yellow
7 are wearing red
31 are wearing green
17 are wearing purple
10 are wearing white

The band leader tells all the gentlemen with a birthday on an odd day (half of them statistically) to leave their girl and find one in another color. After a few minutes of confusing everyone with be matched up with someone. If the (15) girls in the green dresses were beautiful, good dancers and charming the 8 from the purple and 7 from the blue would have grabbed them right away before the orange, yellow, red, and white even had a chance. However, at this dance the girls in the green are standing there while the last couple of guys finally come up and ask them to dance once they see all the other girls are taken.

My very first post in this thread was simply to say that Disney should not have had 31 of the girls wearing green, but instead should have had 11 green dresses, 10 silver, and 10 gray dresses instead.

I am not sure how it has turned into this?