Anyone else getting a little annoyed?

[rowbear]

Yes, well tickets used to cost half of what they are now. Things change. Adapt, or stay at SSR or OKW. Its as simple as that. SSR added many new owners. Many will be added with Hawaii. Some with GCV. The program is expanding. The whole point of a home resort is you have that advantage to book there before anyone else. After 7 months, its open for everyone. Simple as that. If you don't like SSR or OKW, then start making reservations before 7 months at your home resort, OR Make them right around 7 months. I can usually get one of my top 2 choices at 7 months.

That was pointless and a little rude.

 

[yitbos96bb]

The plain fact is that SSR is the 800 pound gorilla in the room. OKW is the second largest resort but when it was OKW and BWV and then also BCV and VWL, there were not huge issues with being able to get BWV, BCV or VWL less than exactly 7 months out most times of year (back in the late 90s I could still get Easter time at BWV at 6 months out). Most OKW owners bought because that is where they preferred staying and majority still do and thus they did not create a huge 7 month demand for other resorts and OKW actually had some demand going from other resorts to it at 7 months out because of the significantly lower points and much larger 1 and 2BRs.

SSR now makes up about 1/3 of all owners and it is well known that Disney sold SSR more than other resort with the speil that the owners could easily stay elsewhere and many bought there without the intent of staying there much if at all. Net effect is that we now have a huge demand right at the seven month window for anything open at BCV, VWL or BWV. Even AKV is affected although on a lesser scale. But you don't have any significant demand going the other way at 7 months out -- owners at BWV, BCV, VWL, or AKV aren't clamoring for SSR. That has led to more and more dates being more difficult to get at any time less than 7 months out at places other than SSR or OKW and at the same time has led to more owners at BWV, BCV and VWL, and even AKV making their reservations further and further out with the 11 month window rather than risking waiting, with the result that at times even owners can't get what they want at their own resort 8 months out.

Which is the way it should be. Book your home resort in your home window. You wait until after 7 months, then tough. I have no sympathy at all. Just because YOU bought at a resort other than SSR, doesn't mean you should have any priority at your non-home resorts. Yes things have changed... that's the way life works. I have called at 7 months and can generally get one of my top 2 choices for that trip. I called at 6 months for my Oct trip and was still able to get a Boardwalk View Villa, as well as having the option of a Bay Lake view villa.

 

[Chuck S]

But you can imagine that those of us who bought in earlier have gotten used to things working a certain way and now the value of what we purchased is being impacted. It doesn't help that disney reserves a portion of OUR rooms to sell to the general public and will not let you have it on points but someone from the outside can buy them. Now we not only have to compete with the general public but a huge new population of owners.

Those cash rooms are either from points owned by Disney/DVC or are the result of members trading their points out of the DVC system...so technically, they are reserved on points, and can not be reserved twice on points.

 

[rowbear]

The contract size does nothing to affect demand. 1,000 points spread out among 5 or 50 owners is still 1,000 points. It can book a fixed number of nights regardless of the number of owners. It could affect demand for lower point per night resorts as owners try to maximize their points but I see no other issue.

IMHO, SSR just does not have the appeal the other resorts have. BWV and BCV have Epcot and the Boardwalk. BCV has the pool. AKV has the animals and superb themeing. WLV and BLT have MK. SSR has downtown but it is so spread out it downtown can be very far away (and does not hold much appeal for me and my family of young ones.) OKW is a wonderful place for retired folks (and great point structure).

I have seen the same issues. We have owned at BWV since 98 and the availability of resorts has greatly diminished since SSR has come fully online. I do not begrudge anyone for this. I bought where I wished to vacation (BWV and AKV) and applauded as my options expanded. Good luck to all reserving where they wish.

That would only be true if it was fixed week but it is not. Having more members with fewer points means that more people are competing for rooms at the same time. Think about it. Using your example if 5 people were competing at the same time everyone would win, if 50 were competing for rooms at the same time some will lose.

 

[tjkraz]

I think the biggest change that has occurred in the last 6-8 years is DVC being exposed to the Internet age. Whenever we message board denizens offer advice to current or prospective members, the message is always are always the same:

* Buy where you want to stay
* Book right at 11 months
* If you want to book a non-Home resort, call right at 7 months

Years of offering that sort of advice have changed the entire landscape of how members book their trips. The days when members can call on just a month or two's notice and have multiple resort choices are gone. You can point to SSR as a catalyst if you wish, but IMO the change was inevitable. Other timeshare systems face the same issues. You're never going to have an environment where supply and demand are even across the entire system.

I'll also point out that given the varying sizes of the resorts, it's really hard to make even educated guesses about member trends. Rarely are resorts booked to 100% occupancy by their owners at 11 months. Let's say that resorts average 50% occupancy before the 7 month window arrives. If so, the approximate number of rooms available at each resort goes something like this:

VWL: 68 vacancies
BCV: 104 vacancies
BWV: 200 vacancies
OKW: 270 vacancies
SSR: 440 vacancies

Now let's assume that demand for each of those resorts by non-owners is EQUAL. If 200 members want to book each of VWL, BCV and BWV at 7 months, those resorts will reach max occupancy and most will have to turn people away. OKW and SSR can both absorb 200 more reservations and will still have room for more.

With the growth DVC has experienced, building large resorts like SSR, AKV and BLT (which, IMO, will double in size when that second tower is eventually built) are necessary. The biggest mistake DVC made was building the tiny add-ons at VWL and BCV in the first place.

I doubt there is anything Disney could do to return us to the days of VWL and BCV bookings just 1-2 months out. Even if SSR were half its size you would still be losing out to owners of every other DVC resort who occasionally want to try those smallish properties when their 7 month window arrives.

 

[rowbear]

Those cash rooms are either from points owned by Disney/DVC or are the result of members trading their points out of the DVC system...so technically, they are reserved on points, and can not be reserved twice on points.

Nope. I happen to know for a fact that rooms that cannot be booked in a new booking from a member can be booked with cash. It happened to me just last year when I was trying to help my sister out who needed to go to Orlando for a nursing conference. I was told the room was unavailable and she was able to book it for cash the next day.

 

[Chuck S]

The contract size does nothing to affect demand. 1,000 points spread out among 5 or 50 owners is still 1,000 points. It can book a fixed number of nights regardless of the number of owners. It could affect demand for lower point per night resorts as owners try to maximize their points but I see no other issue.

Actually, it does, if the same percentage of owners want to travel at the same time. If 20% of owners want to reserve the same day, and there are 100 owners with 1000 points, that is 20 owners trying for that day. If there are 1000 owners with 100 points, there are 200 owners trying for that day. Greater numbers of smaller contracts vs fewer contracts with larger point numbers even will affect a resort during the 11 month priority booking window.

IMHO, SSR just does not have the appeal the other resorts have. BWV and BCV have Epcot and the Boardwalk. BCV has the pool. AKV has the animals and superb themeing. WLV and BLT have MK. SSR has downtown but it is so spread out it downtown can be very far away (and does not hold much appeal for me and my family of young ones.) OKW is a wonderful place for retired folks (and great point structure).

I have seen the same issues. We have owned at BWV since 98 and the availability of resorts has greatly diminished since SSR has come fully online. I do not begrudge anyone for this. I bought where I wished to vacation (BWV and AKV) and applauded as my options expanded. Good luck to all reserving where they wish.

And you are welcome to your opinion, just as BWV and BCV have absolutely no appeal to me at all. I wouldn't stay at BWV or BCV if I had to choose between them and OKW or SSR.

 

[Lildalejrfan]

OKW is a wonderful place for retired folks (and great point structure).

I take offense to this.... My dear departed SIL was one of the first to buy into OKW. She was two yrs older than I am. I'm now 43. While we were staying @ OKW last yr we took the DVC tour & had the option of AK or OKW. We decided on OKW. It's a place we prefer over other properties.
BTW, since joining 17 months ago we've already gone 13 times. Not bad for non-retired people.

 

[rowbear]

OKW is a wonderful place for retired folks (and great point structure).

I take offense to this.... My dear departed SIL was one of the first to buy into OKW. She was two yrs older than I am. I'm now 43. While we were staying @ OKW last yr we took the DVC tour & had the option of AK or OKW. We decided on OKW. It's a place we prefer over other properties.
BTW, since joining 17 months ago we've already gone 13 times. Not bad for non-retired people.

Maybe OKW needs to market itself better. I own at Wildnerness and I still stay at OKW the majority of the time. That is what I don't get. What is wrong with OKW and SS? I have visited SS and it is nice over there. I ate at that restaurant last may (I forget the name) at the golf course and it was excellent. I am only a hair younger than you.

 

[Chuck S]

Nope. I happen to know for a fact that rooms that cannot be booked in a new booking from a member can be booked with cash. It happened to me just last year when I was trying to help my sister out who needed to go to Orlando for a nursing conference. I was told the room was unavailable and she was able to book it for cash the next day.

Of course there are rooms available for cash and not points. Again, it is the only way for trades out of the DVC system for members to be viable. In theory, a member calls Member Services to stay at a non-DVC Disney Collection resort or use points for a cruise. DVC then takes those points, reserves a room at a DVC resort, and puts it up for a cash only reservation to pay Disney for the cruise or non-DVC resort room. It is much like when a member reserves a room on points, then rents the reservation to someone else, and uses that rental income for a vacation to another location.

Only in this case of cash reservations, Disney becomes a rental agent middle man to facilitate the trade out. They are not "taking away" a members room, they are renting the room on behalf of a member to use the money for the trade. Otherwise, member trades would not be possible at all.

At DVC resorts that are not fully sold, like BLT and AKV, those unsold points are still owned by the developer...they can be used as sales incentives (as in the case of the matching Developer Points promos) as give-aways or for cash reservations. Those points/rooms are not yet owned by members, and thus the equivalent reservations can not be made by members on points.

 

[rowbear]

Of course there are rooms available for cash and not points. Again, it is the only way for trades out of the DVC system for members to be viable. In theory, a member calls Member Services to stay at a non-DVC Disney Collection resort or use points for a cruise. DVC then takes those points, reserves a room at a DVC resort, and puts it up for a cash only reservation to pay Disney for the cruise or non-DVC resort room. Just like when a member reserves a room on points, then rents the reservation to someone else. Only in this case of cash reservations, Disney becomes a rental agent middle man to facilitate the trade out. They are not "taking away" a members room, they are renting the room on behalf of a member to use the money for the trade. Otherwise, member trades would not be possible at all.

At DVC resorts that are not fully sold, like BLT and AKV, those unsold points are still owned by the developer...they can be used as sales incentives (as in the case of the matching Developer Points promos) as give-aways or for cash reservations. Those points/rooms are not yet owned by members, and thus the equivalent reservations can not be made by members on points.

That does make sense. Thanks. One less thing to be annoyed about.

Of course it hard to ever be REALLY annoyed. I mean we do get the greatest and most consistent vacation experience on the whole planet.

 

[Sammie]

It is an urban rumor that SSR members do not stay at their home resort. Precentage wise I bet they do not book other resorts anymore than anyone else. We always stay at either SSR or OKW as we like the condo style setup over a hotel style.

Buy where you want to stay, book at 11 months and you will not have any problems. Also if you really want to try other resorts, we have had excellent luck getting exactly what we want at 7 months, even during hard to book times.

As to selling DVC rooms to the general public, that was understood when we buy, that 3% belongs to Disney to as they wish. Any other rooms that are available are due to DVC members trading out to other locations other than DVC resorts.

Also I think what has changed is that off times are not truly off times anymore.

 

[TDC Nala]

I rarely stay at either of my home resorts. Don't see why that is a problem.

I hardly ever eat breakfast either.

 

[CMOORE185]

I have been a member for nine years and see no difference in booking 7 months out today than I did nine years ago. We utilize all the resorts and have no problems booking at the 7 month window.

 

[DebbieB]

I can't ever remember seeing a post from a non-SSR owner saying they wanted to get into SSR at 7 months. I frequently see posts where people own SSR and plan to move at 7 months.

 

[wdrl]

Withdrew post

 

[tjkraz]

I can't ever remember seeing a post from a non-SSR owner saying they wanted to get into SSR at 7 months. I frequently see posts where people own SSR and plan to move at 7 months.

Oh, I don't think that's true. I have read plenty of posts from non-owners looking to book SSR. Some are planning non-park trips. Some are interested in the golf and/or spa facilities available. And then there's the Treehouse Villas.

Aside from some of the low-number "Standard" and "Value" room classes at certain resorts, SSR is still the second cheapest destination at WDW. And the relative newness of the resort places it ahead of OKW in many people's minds.

Personally, I think that SSR owners book their Home resort at 11 months in similar numbers to owners at other resorts. But as I tried to illustrate in my first post, the problem comes at 7 months when the smaller properties only have a few dozen rooms left to potentially accommodate thousands of DVC families.

Are SSR (and OKW) at the top of members' lists when booking at 7 months? No probably not. But it's not just the SSR owners who are filling the smaller resorts when that window opens. There are also plenty of AKV, BLT, Vero, HHI, OKW and even BWV owners trying to get into the handful of rooms left at the likes of BCV and VWL.

Again, DVC's biggest mistake was building VWL and BCV so small. If SSR were half its size people STILL would not be able to book BCV, VWL or BWV on 2 months' notice. But if BCV and VWL were both in the neighborhood of 400 rooms, we probably would not be having this discussion.

 

[madcoco]

I think the biggest change that has occurred in the last 6-8 years is DVC being exposed to the Internet age. Whenever we message board denizens offer advice to current or prospective members, the message is always are always the same:

* Buy where you want to stay
* Book right at 11 months
* If you want to book a non-Home resort, call right at 7 months

Years of offering that sort of advice have changed the entire landscape of how members book their trips. The days when members can call on just a month or two's notice and have multiple resort choices are gone. You can point to SSR as a catalyst if you wish, but IMO the change was inevitable. Other timeshare systems face the same issues. You're never going to have an environment where supply and demand are even across the entire system.

Bingo!
We bought the majority of our points where we wanted to stay for the size accomodations we wanted and use most of our points at VB.
If we can't get a reservation 7 months or less somewhere else, well then it's our own fault and can't blame anyone else. DVC is no longer "Disney's Best Kept Secret" but imho it still works for the majority of us.

A little OT but How many contracts do you think have been sold at SSR?
A more important question. Did someone mention breakfast? I would probably be thirty pounds lighter if I ate a good breakfast instead of a bottle of rum chased with two dinners. j/k Don't skip breakfast! Sorry just trying to lighten things up.

 

[ChickieToo]

Exactly DVC could have built 2 or 3 resorts with the same number of rooms as SSR and the problem would be the same.

I don't think this is necessarily true. If DVC built 3 smaller resorts in highly desirable locations (think the Polynesian) with really great theming where people really wanted to stay, there may be fewer people just buying to get points and then wanting to change reservations at 7 months, as is the case with a lot (not all) SSR owners. I bet you a Poly Villas owner would book at 11months and stay put. So, although I agree that it is a numbers game and there are a lot of points that flooded the system, I also believe that a mitigating factor to those numbers would be to build smaller "add-on" resorts (like BCV or BWV) that people highly desire and want to stay at.

BTW, based on posts here, I don't think that AKV owners are as quick to swap out ressies at 7 months as SSR owners are. AKV is a resort with great theming, a great draw (animals) and people really seem to like staying there. Not to criticize SSR, I've never stayed ther, and from the outside and the grounds it seems perfectly nice, but SSR doesn't have a big draw for me.

I have to tell you, when I made last minute spring break ressies for April, I really missed staying at BCV and it was a let down for me to stay at OKW--even though I knew what I was in for, reserving at 3 months out. I chose OKW over SSR to keep points lower.

 

[rentayenta]

I hardly ever eat breakfast either.

So it's your fault that the lunch lines are so long! If you ate breakfast like you should, you wouldn't need to take my turn in the lunch line.