Anyone else disappointed with booking lately??

[tjkraz]

I think the problem comes from Aluani. People bought there but are staying in WDW. The other off-site resort, Vero Beach and Hilton Head, aren't very big so WDW could handle those people coming and and they could handle the owners from WDW. But Hawaii is so far away that owners from the WDW resorts aren't traveling there.

Have you ever researched availability at Aulani? Demand is VERY brisk at 7 months most of the year.

It's difficult to summarize because there are so many different views and room sizes--19 different categories. Right now only 5 of those categories have full week availability over the next 5 months. And that availability is all bunched around late-April / early-May.

Aulani does experience something of a lull in the fall. But spring, summer, and holiday periods in particular, rooms are filling at 7 months with many non-owners coming away disappointed that they can't get what they want.

 

[crisi]

For the LIFE OF ME I can't figure out why anyone would buy at the higher premium per point at the Poly then want to stay somewhere else? If you're trying to stretch your points why the heck didn't they just buy somewhere else that cost less to start with? We stayed at the Poly once and we DID love it. But it's too rich for us to afford other than just every-once-in-awhile. We also tend to book our home (SSR) a lot because the point values are very reasonable and we can squeeze more trips in. We do like to resort hop but as long as we're trying to stretch our measly 250 points into 3x a year we have to go about it in a reasonable way and stay where we can get the most bang for our buck...we would switch to AKV sometimes at 7 months if the std. view is available at Jambo...but sometimes it's not (like over Marathon week).

Because five years from now, the purchase price will be a distant memory - but stretching your points is going to look good. So you'll start thinking "well, if we could stay over at BCV, we could get another day out of our contract." I know with my little contract and my BWV points, I know very well that the standard view means more nights - if that is what I'm looking for. (I actually have too many points for our current needs and booked a Grand Villa last trip - but we aren't the Disney addicts a lot of DVCers are - five nights every other year is sufficient.)

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

For the LIFE OF ME I can't figure out why anyone would buy at the higher premium per point at the Poly then want to stay somewhere else? If you're trying to stretch your points why the heck didn't they just buy somewhere else that cost less to start with? We stayed at the Poly once and we DID love it. But it's too rich for us to afford other than just every-once-in-awhile. We also tend to book our home (SSR) a lot because the point values are very reasonable and we can squeeze more trips in. We do like to resort hop but as long as we're trying to stretch our measly 250 points into 3x a year we have to go about it in a reasonable way and stay where we can get the most bang for our buck...we would switch to AKV sometimes at 7 months if the std. view is available at Jambo...but sometimes it's not (like over Marathon week).

Likely not well informed or not informed at all and didn't know anything else was an option. A lot still done know about resale or even if they do still will do nothing other than buy direct and DVC doesn't always share they will sell any resort I'd imagine that they say they want a 1br or 2br and the guide says "no problem, you can stay to Boardwalk or any other DVC with the larger villas!" I've seen quite a few posts from Poly owners who were staying elsewhere in larger villas. And for them they can get a larger villa elsewhere for just a few more points than a studio at their home.

 

[Dean]

Have you ever researched availability at Aulani? Demand is VERY brisk at 7 months most of the year.

It's difficult to summarize because there are so many different views and room sizes--19 different categories. Right now only 5 of those categories have full week availability over the next 5 months. And that availability is all bunched around late-April / early-May.

Aulani does experience something of a lull in the fall. But spring, summer, and holiday periods in particular, rooms are filling at 7 months with many non-owners coming away disappointed that they can't get what they want.

Historically timeshares owners in HI tend to use roughly 50% of the time for Marriott, I'm not sure the % for DVC there but one can bet it's lower than certain WDW resorts. But ultimately it doesn't have much effect on the 7 month window because there is significant demand from the rest of the membership. One thing that often happens with high demand options is they reserve and cancel if they get another high demand options so it doesn't have much effect at 7 months overall. HI is likely a little different though for obvious reasons.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Heck, I saw a poly owner today on Facebook posting surprise/upset because she just learned there were no 1BRs there. And a lot of people asking how the heck someone bought at Poly without noticing that on point charts.

 

[lisaviolet]

Especially for studios.

I don't know the exact numbers and I'm too lazy to find it. But I believe the Polynesian has over 400 studios. So DVC adds more studios and people complained about that.

Standard Polynesian inventory comes in and out more than people think - I believe it is somewhere above 280 units available. Heck I booked two weeks over Christmas/NYE and I started quite a few weeks after the seventh month window. But I play DVC availability like Las Vegas. Not everyone thinks that is fun.

____________

The studio availability will only get worse over time. Mix the popularity of renting points - which is definitely skewed towards studio bookings - with the you can fit five in most studios and we will see more and more studio units booked solid.

Members booked/book a more varied inventory.

Heck, I saw a poly owner today on Facebook posting surprise/upset because she just learned there were no 1BRs there. And a lot of people asking how the heck someone bought at Poly without noticing that on point charts.

What?!?!

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I don't know the exact numbers and I'm too lazy to find it. But I believe the Polynesian has over 400 studios. So DVC adds more studios and people complained about that.

.......

The studio availability will only get worse over time. Mix the popularity of renting points - which is definitely skewed towards studio bookings - with the you can fit five in most studios and we will see more and more studio units booked solid.

Members booked/book a more varied inventory.

I don't quite understand DVC's decisions although with CCV they at least didn't make 1BR's equal or greater in number than studios. It seems fairly obvious more studios are desired but not to the extent of an all studio resort. Here's a fun factoid though that I hadn't realized previously until looking to see what they did for CCV - there are more possible 1BR's than studios at VWL! It is the only resort that is that way though.

 

[lisaviolet]

It seems fairly obvious more studios are desired but not to the extent of an all studio resort.

 

[Wakey]

I think the problem comes from Aluani. People bought there but are staying in WDW. The other off-site resort, Vero Beach and Hilton Head, aren't very big so WDW could handle those people coming and and they could handle the owners from WDW. But Hawaii is so far away that owners from the WDW resorts aren't traveling there.

But I think Aluani has a very high occupancy doesn't it? If it does, then it shouldn't be contributing to the early booking phenomenon (which is what we are talking about as DVC is and always has been near 100% occupancy). I see the problem more like momentum. People realise over many years they have to book earlier. Then others realise they must now book earlier, to beat those now booking earlier. It goes on and on, a self fulfilling spiral.

 

[Wakey]

Heck, I saw a poly owner today on Facebook posting surprise/upset because she just learned there were no 1BRs there. And a lot of people asking how the heck someone bought at Poly without noticing that on point charts.

Was this on DVC Neighbourhood? I had to come off that as it was driving me mad. Many, many people don't seem to have a clue what they have bought, and have been scared off resale by false info.

 

[Wakey]

I don't quite understand DVC's decisions although with CCV they at least didn't make 1BR's equal or greater in number than studios. It seems fairly obvious more studios are desired but not to the extent of an all studio resort. Here's a fun factoid though that I hadn't realized previously until looking to see what they did for CCV - there are more possible 1BR's than studios at VWL! It is the only resort that is that way though.

I think it was a bit of a balancing act for Poly.

 

[Marionnette]

I don't quite understand DVC's decisions although with CCV they at least didn't make 1BR's equal or greater in number than studios. It seems fairly obvious more studios are desired but not to the extent of an all studio resort. Here's a fun factoid though that I hadn't realized previously until looking to see what they did for CCV - there are more possible 1BR's than studios at VWL! It is the only resort that is that way though.

I don't think that it's the studios at PVB that contribute to the problem. It's the over-priced bungalows. They inflate the overall number of points that will eventually be sold. A quick look at the RAT this morning showed only scattered nights where the bungalows are fully booked. Not very many owners across DVC have a sufficient number of points to book more than a couple of nights there annually. Nor do many desire to use their points that way. When PVB is finally sold out, those empty bungalows will represent points that are either going unused or being used to book elsewhere inside the 7-month window. IMO, it's only going to get more difficult to book last-minute trips as DVD continues to flood DVC with new owners and renting between the 11-7 month dates becomes more mainstream.

 

[tjkraz]

I don't think that it's the studios at PVB that contribute to the problem. It's the over-priced bungalows. They inflate the overall number of points that will eventually be sold. A quick look at the RAT this morning showed only scattered nights where the bungalows are fully booked. Not very many owners across DVC have a sufficient number of points to book more than a couple of nights there annually. Nor do many desire to use their points that way.

Depends on the underlying details. When availability is shown, it just means that one room is available. There's a vast difference between having one bungalow unhooked vs. 5 or 10 or 15 vacant rooms.

The entire DVC system has around 100 Grand Villas and Beach Cottages with nightly rates comparable to the bungalows. People DO have the points.

It's really impossible to draw any conclusions from what we see online. We cannot determine exactly how many rooms are sitting vacant, nor can we tell how those numbers compare to Grand Villas which have been part of the DVC program throughout its 25 year history.

 

[CarolMN]

Oh, to go back to this statement for a minute - I own BWV and have for fifteen years now. There is no way I'd spend my precious points on the Poly, GF or BLT - well, maybe I'd try them, but I wouldn't book them regularly. The point cost is too high. We tend to stay at our home resort, but any desire I had to switch out and free up BWV space dies in the face of the point premium and the newer resorts.

But I suspect as time goes on, the reverse will not be true. MK resort owners who bought for proximity to the MK are going to be eyeing my lower point cost BWV right next to Epcot rooms as their kids outgrow the MK.

For the LIFE OF ME I can't figure out why anyone would buy at the higher premium per point at the Poly then want to stay somewhere else? If you're trying to stretch your points why the heck didn't they just buy somewhere else that cost less to start with? We stayed at the Poly once and we DID love it. But it's too rich for us to afford other than just every-once-in-awhile. We also tend to book our home (SSR) a lot because the point values are very reasonable and we can squeeze more trips in. We do like to resort hop but as long as we're trying to stretch our measly 250 points into 3x a year we have to go about it in a reasonable way and stay where we can get the most bang for our buck...we would switch to AKV sometimes at 7 months if the std. view is available at Jambo...but sometimes it's not (like over Marathon week).

Agree!!

We've owned BWV since 1999. By far the vast majority of our 2- 3 trips per year trips are spent in a standard view 1 or 2 bedroom villa. When we've ventured elsewhere, we almost always stay in a studio. We did try the Poly, loved it and won't go back. Too hard to accept that for the same amount of points (or slightly more depending on the season), we could have a one bedroom SV at the BWV. We've stayed in LV studios at BLT (split stay) and enjoyed those, too. Points/night are more reasonable there, so we've been a few times, but won't book 1 one bedroom there - too costly compared to BWV. We stayed in a 2 bedroom savanna view at Kidani, but only once and that was because we were traveling with young children crazy about the animals. Enjoyed that stay, too, but it's unlikely we'll go back there, either.

Bottom line is that we strongly prefer our home resort - best bargain on site as far as we're concerned. I'm just glad we prefer the 1 bedrooms & don't need to compete for the SV studios. (I heartily dislike the new studio configuration with that stupid camper table right under the TV. That particular enhancement only reinforced our preference for the 1 bedrooms. CCV & Poly studio configurations are much, much better). We always book at 11 months - have to if we want to go during our preferred times - F&G, F&W & early December.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Was this on DVC Neighbourhood? I had to come off that as it was driving me mad. Many, many people don't seem to have a clue what they have bought, and have been scared off resale by false info.

Different, slightly smarter group. Only slightly, though. Still a lot of "but if you buy resale you won't get 50 years and if you buy OKW direct you get a 50-year contract!" in this one.

 

[ziravan]

Depends on the underlying details. When availability is shown, it just means that one room is available. There's a vast difference between having one bungalow unhooked vs. 5 or 10 or 15 vacant rooms.

The entire DVC system has around 100 Grand Villas and Beach Cottages with nightly rates comparable to the bungalows. People DO have the points.

It's really impossible to draw any conclusions from what we see online. We cannot determine exactly how many rooms are sitting vacant, nor can we tell how those numbers compare to Grand Villas which have been part of the DVC program throughout its 25 year history.

Half of those Grand Villas are in 2 locations, SSR and OKW. That makes a huge difference in point costs.

We were looking to stay in a Grand Villa on a specific night later this year, Sept 6. Both of the following were avail when we looked.

Poly Bungalow - 115 points
OKW Grand Villa - 45 points

Members owning in the 250 point range is not uncommon. For that number of points, you could stay 2 nights at Poly (230) or 5 nights at OKW (225).

That starts to make comparing Bungalows to Grand Villas an apples to oranges comparison at least half the time, for all but VGF, BLT, and possibly AKV.

We ultimately booked a Theme Park 2BR BLT for 50 points - and that's more of an apple to apple comparison of location, view, and guest limit to Bungalows - with Bungalows being more than twice as expensive. Even so, we just added a ninth guest to our trip, something the BLT room can accommodate but the Bungalow cannot.

You've made this comparison before Bungalows = GVs. I don't think that's apt. In half the cases, GVs are clearly better values and in the other half, I'd venture 12 guests vs 8 is a very big deal for the price.

 

[ziravan]

I'm a Poly owner and I was aware of this when I bought: DVC is indifferent to whether it books Bungalows on points or CRO including breakage.

It's a win-win for DVC.

If booked on points (and some ppl will sample a night or a few here and there), then it's a monster point eater.

If booked CRO then DVC makes bank on a room being maintained by dues.

But my guess is that since most Poly owners didn't buy enough points to routinely book Bungalows that there'll be more Poly owners in the 11 month window with points for studios than there'll be studios.

To the extent Poly owners book elsewhere, those points will prinarily show up in Bungalows at 7 month. For example, let's say 25% of Poly owners book out at 7 months and 10% stay in Bungalows. Even with a third (35%) of Poly owners not staying in studios, you'd still have 65% of Poly owners chasing the 75% of studios. And in that case, about 15% of Poly studios would be avail routinely at the 7 month mark compared to 60% of Bungalows.

Now consider that if those numbers were even close to true, it doesn't mean that Poly will have about 15% avail year round at 7 months. More likely, 30% avail in Jan -Aug and 0% during Fall Frenzy. Especially true since most rental activity will focus like a laser on Fall Frenzy.

My guess is at 7 months, there'll routinely be more Bungalow avail than studio avail. The more that is true, the less Poly does anything meaningful to abate demand for near park studios during Fall Frenzy at 7 months.

 

[davidl81]

Owners are getting more informed about the product they own. Those who have done close in bookings just need to do the same.

Also, Oct - Dec needs a point reallocation perhaps offset by lower summer points. And now that Disney has built up interest during Oct-Dec they need to shift their focus to other times.

Then the complaint threads can start about all those things.

I think this may be very much the root cause of the issue. As more people look at the "value" of their points during these months they will tend to book these months and not use them during higher point months of the year. I do wish we could see occupancy rates on DVC resorts by the various resorts and broken down by month. That info would show if there was a need to reallocate points for different times of the year. What cannot be fixed (or altered) is people using "non-prime" resorts (No flames please, I own SSR and do this as well) to book at prime resorts at seven months out. I do wonder how many people bought at Aulani and use those points for DW resorts versue points form DW resorts that get used an Aulani? Since there is such a large number of points at that resort it could really be exaggerating the issue.

 

[davidl81]

Depends on the underlying details. When availability is shown, it just means that one room is available. There's a vast difference between having one bungalow unhooked vs. 5 or 10 or 15 vacant rooms.

The entire DVC system has around 100 Grand Villas and Beach Cottages with nightly rates comparable to the bungalows. People DO have the points.

It's really impossible to draw any conclusions from what we see online. We cannot determine exactly how many rooms are sitting vacant, nor can we tell how those numbers compare to Grand Villas which have been part of the DVC program throughout its 25 year history.

Does DVC have an obligation to reallocate point charges at POLY if the Bungalows do not rent at their current price requirements? Let's say that only 75% of the bungalows are reserved on points but studios are near 100%, this creates an imbalance in the system since those unused bungalow points are most likely being used at other resorts taking away that availability. At some point would DVC not have to move the point requirement down for the bungalows (thus up for the studios) to ensure a better utilization rate? If not then DVC could theoretically offer a "super grand villa" at every new resort that cost 500 points a night just to increase total points to sell at a resort. This would be done with the understanding that the room would never really book, but allowing DVC to sell more points for a resort. In no way do I think they would actually do this but it is just an example.

 

[tjkraz]

That starts to make comparing Bungalows to Grand Villas an apples to oranges comparison at least half the time, for all but VGF, BLT, and possibly AKV.

There are 42 Grand Villas in those three locations.

My problem with this discussion is that it always seems to be rooted in: "*I* don't see the value in using points for a bungalow so clearly nobody else is doing it."

For 25 years, DVC has had high-priced niche accommodations. For 25 years, people have paid premium points to stay at the Grand Floridian or Bay Lake Tower when cheaper options like OKW and SSR existed. For 25 years, nobody ever cared a bit about occupancy level of those Grand Villas. I've yet to see a single post from someone who monitored Grand Villa availability and posted theories about how vacancies are negatively impacting the system.

That said, I think a greater threat to Poly Bungalow occupancy is looming now that Copper Creek will have more economical cabins.

Nevertheless, it seems foolish to apply our own personal bias to the bungalows. Especially when considering that those rooms represent a fraction-of-one-percent of all DVC units. Doesn't take many owners wanting that high-end, once-in-a-lifetime, VIP experience to fill (or nearly fill) those bungalows nightly.

I'm a Poly owner and I was aware of this when I bought: DVC is indifferent to whether it books Bungalows on points or CRO including breakage.

The CRO/breakage element of this discussion also mystifies me. So there aren't enough DVC owners willing to spend points there, but there are ample cash guests ready and willing to spend $3000 per night for a bungalow?