Anyone eating organic and non gmo

[North of Mouse]

I have been reading this thread with interest but I DO have a dog in this fight so to speak and can not let this statement go by without a commit. My husband and I own and operate a certified organic dairy farm and this statement is so far off the mark it is laughable! To be clear we are a small (75 milking cows) family farm operated by my husband, son and myself. We have one inspection a year that we know about and one or more a year that we don't know about. Our cows are outside grazing everyday except when they are being milked. When weather is bad they have the option of being in the barn or outside. There has been many a morning when I wish they were inside instead of out when it was pouring out or snowing as I trudge out to bring them in. Our cows are happy and healthy and a part of our family.

Implying that you can plant row crops "every other row" and spray every other row is so not true. We have to have a minimum 50 foot buffer between our organic crop land and any land that is not organic. This is to prevent any spray drift. I have had inspectors measure the buffer zone to make sure we comply. It is interesting to note that the wild deer around here love our GMO free corn, and will eat it over our neighbors GMO corn. They have done studios showing that chickens will always pick GMO free corn every time over GMO corn when given a choice.

In our area of the country organic inspectors take their jobs very seriously and in just the past year have decertified two farms that they thought were being lax with the organic standard! This is very close to my heart and I'm sorry to get on my soapbox but I couldn't let it go. Thank you to all of you that buy organic and for listening to me vent.

Absolutely, in a perfect world, that is the way it 'should' be, and I agree wholeheartedly, 'but' sadly, that is 'not' the way it is everywhere, and I stand by what I said!

And, for the record, I did not say 'every other row' - you added that!!
And, also, no, it is 'not laughable' - it's totally sad.

 

[pjlla]

The best advice I can offer - and this is a tough time of year to take it, unless you're in a very warm part of the US - is look locally. And talk to growers. The organic label is an expensive process and you can often find small growers who don't have the money or time to pursue certification, although they adhere to organic methods. This is especially true if you have the ability to go to more rural areas to get your food. In that same vein, look into 4H/FFA youth auctions in your area. The meat isn't going to be certified organic but pastured meat seldom is, and by stepping outside the mass-production food system you're getting away from antibiotics as growth supplements and some of the other more damaging practices of "factory" farming methods and getting a better product without the organic price tag.

The biggest thing, for us, was learning to prep to avoid convenience foods. Sure, I could spend extra money and get organic boxed mac & cheese for the kids to fix, or frozen meals for when I'm too busy to cook, but that adds a lot more $$$$ to the grocery bill than prepping home-made heat-and-serve options. And gardening helps. I don't do much indoors because houseplants don't make enough noise to avoid being forgotten in our house, but during the summers i keep a big garden and can/freeze things when they're in season to have throughout the winter.

I wholeheartedly agree with your first paragraph! Being "certified organic" is quite an ordeal (as I mentioned before, we are friends with a local certified organic farmer) and lots of folks just can't be bothered or can't handle the time and expense. But if you adhere to most natural and organic processes, I am happy to buy from you! We grow organic here at home, but of course aren't certified. The neighbor I buy my eggs from has free-range chickens that eat naturally with some added (non-organic) grains, but I think they are still a better choice (and better price) than the grocery store options. And I work with a woman whose husband raises grass-fed local beef cattle.... again, not certified organic, but I know them and actually drive by the cows every day and I know that is a better choice than the mass-produced beef available at the store, despite not being "certified organic". Well said!.............P

 

[hsmamato2]

This is one of the reasons why I'm not a strictly organic shopper. Lots of my friends are, and everyone has to make the choice they can live with. Inadvertently much of what I am now able to eat is organic, but there's so many loopholes, I buy what meets our needs allergy wise, nutritionally, and financially. Having started gardening seriously in the last year, it's interesting to learn what can be considered organic in growing practices. Fortunately we have a ton of natural pest predators so we didn't have to get into pesticides at all in our yard. Thank you mantises and spiders!

yesssss........

 

[hsmamato2]

yes,yes.... it's a far from perfect setup on the standards at this point.... I am aware of that too, but overall the choices are a better option than 'standard feedlot' practices for animals,and that is a huge for me. Again, I am aware of the expensive and complicated hoops that organic farmers have to jump through to be certified,and this is both unfair,and unsustainable. That is one reason why buying OG is expensive.

 

[SuzanneSLO]

yes,yes.... it's a far from perfect setup on the standards at this point.... I am aware of that too, but overall the choices are a better option than 'standard feedlot' practices for animals,and that is a huge for me. Again, I am aware of the expensive and complicated hoops that organic farmers have to jump through to be certified,and this is both unfair,and unsustainable. That is one reason why buying OG is expensive.

Wait. Are you suggesting that we should make the standards for certified organic less strict?

We already allow organic certified crops to be sprayed with rotenone and copper sulfate. I would think that most people who want to eat organic fruits and vegetables would prefer that the standards were stricter. But maybe I read your comment incorrectly, in which case I apologize. -- Suzanne

 

[hsmamato2]

no....not less strict...what I am saying is the burden placed upon 'organic certified' growers is pretty heavy,and costly. I like oversight, but I know of a local dairy farm with wonderful raw milk that is not certified OG, b/c they are small and can't afford the 'designation'.... which is legal speak for fees,fees,and fees. This is not necessary,and IMHO a way for big agri-business to keep the organics industry down. My local farm described themselves as 'as close to OG as possible without that stamp on the label'- since they are local,and their good practices are evident everywhere, that's an easy one. But oversight of major industry? That's a little tougher. I WANT my OG label to mean something, but not at the cost of actual farmers livelihood. I want to see stricter standards placed on ALL U.S. food... as noted in my earlier posts, not just difficult hoops for smaller OG farms.

 

[Disneytam]

Absolutely, in a perfect world, that is the way it 'should' be, and I agree wholeheartedly, 'but' sadly, that is 'not' the way it is everywhere, and I stand by what I said!

And, for the record, I did not say 'every other row' - you added that!!
And, also, no, it is 'not laughable' - it's totally sad.

Yes that's why I used the word implying before it. We all know that we don't live in a perfect world and any time you have a list of rules to follow "someone" will come along and think that they don't have to follow those rules, that somehow they don't apply to them. Be it farming or waiting in line at a theme park. As far as certified organic goes that is why we have inspectors in the first place, and the tougher they are the happier I am! So what I always tell anyone that asks me about certified organic is to do a little research (and if your on these boards you know all about research!) and try to know what you are buying. All natural and organic mean nothing it has to be certified organic otherwise it's just a word.

I didn't mean to sound so testy when I last posted but I had just come in from working on a cows foot who had an abscess. If we weren't organic I could have just loaded her up on penicillin and been done with it, instead I have been soaking it three times a day. It is healing well and she has decided that she doesn't need my help anymore and since she out weighs me by about 1,400 pounds it was an interesting process. This morning she is fine and so is my attitude. Hope I didn't offend anyone but I really love what we do and just felt the need to protect it.

 

[SuzanneSLO]

no....not less strict...what I am saying is the burden placed upon 'organic certified' growers is pretty heavy,and costly. I like oversight, but I know of a local dairy farm with wonderful raw milk that is not certified OG, b/c they are small and can't afford the 'designation'.... which is legal speak for fees,fees,and fees. This is not necessary,and IMHO a way for big agri-business to keep the organics industry down. My local farm described themselves as 'as close to OG as possible without that stamp on the label'- since they are local,and their good practices are evident everywhere, that's an easy one. But oversight of major industry? That's a little tougher. I WANT my OG label to mean something, but not at the cost of actual farmers livelihood. I want to see stricter standards placed on ALL U.S. food... as noted in my earlier posts, not just difficult hoops for smaller OG farms.

In the world we live in, there is a choice between easing the restrictions or having others subsidize the cost of inspection. With all the issues relating food insecurity in our world, subsidizing those who choose to buy organic is low on my list of concerns. -- Suzanne

 

[Colleen27]

yes,yes.... it's a far from perfect setup on the standards at this point.... I am aware of that too, but overall the choices are a better option than 'standard feedlot' practices for animals,and that is a huge for me. Again, I am aware of the expensive and complicated hoops that organic farmers have to jump through to be certified,and this is both unfair,and unsustainable. That is one reason why buying OG is expensive.

I think the standards are fine for produce and could even be a bit stricter, though it would be nice to see compliance costs brought down so small farmers have more opportunities to grow organic. But I think they're misleading for animal products because they don't address sustainable or humane practices at all. Organic eggs are a great example - generally speaking, they're exactly the same as standard factory farmed eggs except that the chickens get organic feed instead of conventional. They're still raised in tight quarters, generally not allowed exposure to the outdoors, have their beaks clipped to discourage pecking, etc. Meanwhile, the eggs from a farmer with a flock that is allowed to spend time in pasture, eating bugs and scratching and living more or less as chickens are designed to live, cannot ever be certified organic because those bugs they're eating aren't from a certified organic source. The same goes for pastured, humanely raised meats - to allow livestock access to pasture is, in most situations, giving up too much control to ever earn an organic certification.

 

[ryansstitch]

I think labels, like "certified organic" are a good thing, as it concerns adding a layer of trust between producer and consumer. But I think the labels, inspections, fees, and pricing evade the bigger issue. Perhaps I'm wrong here, but I think the problem is about trust and respect. farmers want to be trusted and respected for the care they give their crops and livestock. For wanting to provide healthful and natural foods. Unfortunately this translates to high costs for all parties. Similarly, consumers want to feel confident that they aren't consuming poison, an assurance which many are willing to pay a premium for. Looks to me like a possible solution would be for people to buy local and visit the men and women who produce their food. If I trust a local grower, I don't care if they are certified or not. If they are willing to feed their children and grandchildren the same food they sell me, I think it's probably ok. My 2 cents...

 

[Happyinwonerland]

In the world we live in, there is a choice between easing the restrictions or having others subsidize the cost of inspection. With all the issues relating food insecurity in our world, subsidizing those who choose to buy organic is low on my list of concerns. -- Suzanne

Well live in a world with more than enough food being produced, so food insecurity doesn't have to be a concern. I think making organic designation less costly would lower Organic food prices, which would in turn lower conventional food prices (so they can stay competitive ), which would help with your concerns over food insecurity.

But really, I think if farms and grocars could be allowed to have a free bin where they put all their produce and nonperishables and eggs and such that are at or past the sell by date, and anyone could just take it, there would not be any food insecurity. But that's another conversation for another day.

 

[njcarita]

Op here....I want to thank everyone who posted constructive ideas about eatting non gmo and organic and ways to save on food bill..... I don't understand those who post here to 'show the wrongness' of this way of eating, turn into a not enough food in the world debate...but heck it's a free country ...thankfully.... please keep the ideas coming.......

 

[dromio42]

i use 'the dirty dozen' and 'clean 15' lists. that way I don't spend extra money on organic avocados when regular avocados test no pesticides. that might help a little.

 

[pocomom]

I replied earlier but I wanted to add another comment. For the last 3-4 years we did a CSA . We had to go to the farm to pick up and it wasn't that convenient anymore so we skipped it this year. Boy do we miss it! There are some downsides to CSA participation -namely getting what is there not specific items you may want but in our experience we paid far less than what we ended up with , got to try a ton of new varieties of fruit and veg. and we had access to like minded people who did other co-ops and buying clubs.

 

[Jaime4004]

I replied earlier but I wanted to add another comment. For the last 3-4 years we did a CSA . We had to go to the farm to pick up and it wasn't that convenient anymore so we skipped it this year. Boy do we miss it! There are some downsides to CSA participation -namely getting what is there not specific items you may want but in our experience we paid far less than what we ended up with , got to try a ton of new varieties of fruit and veg. and we had access to like minded people who did other co-ops and buying clubs.

Same here! Did it two years ago and loved it, but it is inconvenient and expensive (because many of the items I would not have bought). It was interesting to try veggies that we wouldn't normally buy. I had planned on growing more of my own stuff last year so skipped it. Then my deer and groundhog friends continued to visit throughout the summer and left us will little food of our own. So i'm on the fence of getting it again this year.. Not from an organic farm, but it a small local farm that I trust.

 

[loves to dive]

While I don't eat this way, I have found that Kroger's organic fruits and veggies tend to be pretty close in cost to their non-organic. If you don't have a Kroger, I think their parent company is something like Harry's. Also, there is a food co-op called Bountiful Baskets that is nation wide. You order your food on line and pick it up based on a schedule for your area. Not all their food is organic but they do have organic choices.

 

[robinb]

OP, thank you for your post. Most of my dairy is organic and I always buy eggs from a local farmer. We have a huge farmer's market here and I enjoy buying organic and "no spray" veggies when in season. I've been very lax about it when I can't get to the market and while I have known about the "dirty dozen" list for a while I have mostly ignored it. I just looked it up again and ... ugh ... I have 8 of the dirty dozen in my fridge now!

 

[njcarita]

I don't know where you live, but I think your budget is amazingly low for organic, non-GMO food. Perhaps because you are good at not wasting food and your family is not picky? We spend more for a family of 5 with only 2 adults and 3 children, 10 and under. We have bought 1/2 or 1/4 cow in the past to save on beef, but then we bought less chicken when we did that. My kids are super picky and my husband is picky, too, so we end up buying a lot of fruit out of season, especially strawberries (more $$$). My kids will, for the most part, only eat Pink Lady apples. We'd love for our state to legalize raw milk. Remember that what you spend on healthy eating will be more than worth it in lower health costs and having good health!

Live in NJ... but in the rural part so in the summer am blessed to have alot of local farms, or I have an incredible meat market just 10 minute drive. Took a while for my family to get onboard with all the new food ( and NO PRINGLES, POPTARTS and RAMEN NOODLES).... but they adapted well. This morning my oldest.. 20 year old son made himself 2 farm fresh eggs and an organic orange and organic apple before heading out to university..... My youngest who was my pickiest loves fruit so the transition went easier for her since now we have baskets of it all the time on counter and refrigerator. Middle daughter has always eaten healthy shes the one that pushed me to become non gmo, she was a little relentlessness.... But the biggest change has been my hubby, He lived on junk but since he has always been thin didn't think it was an issues till his cholesterol( total over 300) and triglycerides shot up hugely, now after a year eating this way his triglycerides are NORMAL and his cholesterol dropped 40 pts without meds. I have ramp-id heart disease in my family and my Blood pressure has been high since I am 36, even on meds it was hard to control. Now I have been able to cut my meds down by half and my bp is the lowest it has ever been, hoping to one day get off the meds... so I totally agree the health benefits are soooo worth it for my family...

 

[Happyinwonerland]

I thought of this thread tonight. I made fried rice and the store was out of the organic bagged mixed veggies due to a snowstorm, so I bought conventional. They tasted so different than the organic ones, somehow more metallic or something. Organic is so much better, it tastes like a different food.

 

[ptlohmysoul]

I love our local organic store. It carries ONLY organic produce. It's the best! I do sometimes have to remind myself that nothing else in the store is guaranteed organic.

Organic definitely tastes better! I didn't even know I liked some veggies/fruit until I had them in their fresh, organic version.