Anybody's child have the book "Love you Forever" by Robert Munsch

[DVCLiz]

I am an avid reader and we would have hundreds of books here in my home. I am also passionate about good quality books, in particular for children. I read classics, literary fiction and mainstream fiction. I prefer to read good quality literature for myself and to my children but not everything has to be the best book ever written to be enjoyed and loved. I'm sure there are books I loved as a kid that were far from good literature but the love of reading has stayed with my always and I would rather people read their children "junk" (to use your word) and have them love books because they had favourites as a child, than not have had that connection with the joy of reading.

My point is just that you can make that same connection using good books. If you take a little time and put together a library of great stuff, and you read to your child on a regular basis, and your child sees you and the other adults in the family reading on a regular basis for pleasure, and there aren't any hidden learning differences that impact a child's normal progression into being a competent reader, and if you make going to a library and a bookstore something that is fun and a treat, and if you let kids occasionally and within your budget spend money on books the way they do on other material things, you will guarantee yourself a child who has a lifelong love of reading. And you don't have to have a shelf full of Caldecott medal winners to do it, but why pass up something great and suffer through something mediocre instead???

 

[DVCLiz]

My 10 year old loves this book, asked me to read it to his younger brother, can recite the passage, and even suggested I give it as a baby shower gift when I was in B&N getting a book for the wishing well. He mentioned this and Good Night Moon. Not many of his other books have had such an impact as this one. Maybe Green Eggs and Ham . Plus if he did not request it over and over again I wouldnt have read it. HE WANTED ME TO READ IT!

Sorry that you despise this book so much, to me reading is so much more than it being a literary masterpiece, not evey movie I watch has won an Oscar, not every book I read is on the NY Times list, not every TV show has won an Emmy. Some things are just fun, my son like this book therefore it is fun. DS4 not as excitied about this book so I dont read it as much, no biggie

It's not that I despise this particular book, really. It's that parents seem willing to just accept something substandard when there is so much better out there.

And the choices you make about your movies , books, and TV shows are choices you are making as an ADULT. Of course everyone likes a little fluff and entertainment (that's why God created Sex and The City...) and that's your ADULT choice.

But if I had a limited amount of time to share books with my preschool or early elementary age child, I wouldn't be willing to take that same attitude. I'd be trying my best to share as many great pieces of quality litereature as I could. Would we love every single one of them? Of course not. But that doesn't mean I would just say, "Oh, well, guess anything that comes between two covers and has colored illustrations is fine."

 

[Mickey Fliers]

Creepiest.....Book.....EVER........

 

[beckanoah]

Man, this thread has turned very condescending.

I've been reading to my daughter EVERY night since she was born. She's been reading since she was 3. In first grade, her reading level for Advanced Reader tests is 4.0. I really don't think hearing I Love You Forever has had a negative impact on her or her development. I don't think every book you read has to win some kind of award.



ETA, That's also nearly 7 years of singing that song at both Naptime and Bedtime. She sings to me sometimes too. The memories I will have of that when she's grown are priceless. ( and no, I won't still be tucking her in when she's a grownup)

 

[MosMom]

Maybe parents that are not as versed as you seem to be in children's literature choose books that mean something to them. I honestly had no idea there were children's literature snobs. The people who enjoy this book obviously aren't suffering through it. If you don't like it, don't keep it in your library. Your righteous posts about a book a parent would read to their young child seem a little silly. It is a book and as long as parents are reading to their children, picking apart the material seems petty..but you're the expert.

 

[va32h]

Well I don't think all children's sleepwear needs to be flame-retardant, actually.

It's not as if children spontaneously combust whilst sleeping. The CPSC made those sleepwear recommendations in the 70's when many people smoked and space heaters were commonly used (and not made as safely as they are today). The statistics on children who did catch fire in sleepwear overwhelmingly showed that it was an issue of 1)playing with matches and 2) wearing loose, flowing clothing. It's not even the material from which the sleepwear is made, it's the loose, flowing nature of a robe or nightgown. Hence those very tight cotton pajamas (which all of my children hate!).

A child is in no more danger sleeping in a tshirt than they are playing in a tshirt.

But I digress.

I think this book is creepy, so it's not on my bookshelf. I don't really care whether it is on anyone else's bookshelf. I think most children's books are badly written; it's a rare treat to find a June B. Jones or a Big Hungry Bear out there.

 

[DVCLiz]

Man, this thread has turned very condescending.

I've been reading to my daughter EVERY night since she was born. She's been reading since she was 3. In first grade, her reading level for Advanced Reader tests is 4.0. I really don't think hearing I Love You Forever has had a negative impact on her or her development. I don't think every book you read has to win some kind of award.

My point isn't that you should only choose a book that has won an awrd. And I'm not trying to be condescending. I didn't make up the curriculum of children's literature graduate programs, and I didn't impose my own standards. There are accepted standards for choosing good children's books, just like there are standards for everything else.

As far as AR reading levels go, a book's reading level is determined by the number of words of a particular length in a chosen passage. In graduate school we had to choose passages that were, say, 100 words long, count the number of one, two, three syllable words, etc. and then plot them on a graph. The graph told us what the reading level was, by year and month. So a paperback book from Scholastic, for example, that you find at Barnes & Noble, might have a little "RL 4.2" on the back cover. That means the average 4th grader who has been in school two months can be expected to handle the vocabulary of the book.

Of course, as in the previous poster's example, a child who is ahead of grade level is obviously doing a great job reading and presumably understanding advanced vocabulary. And that's great!!!! You should be really proud of your daughter. I'm especially glad to see how important reading is to you and your daughter. That's exactly the pattern that will give you a high schooler who has an excellent vocabulary and good reading comprehension skills, which in turn will give her a great head start on writing skills, which snowballs into a great student poised for academic sucess.

BUT, it doesn't make Love You Forever a good book just because your daughter is a great reader. It's still a mediocre book, and I still think there are better choices out there. The Runaway Bunny has the same themes and manages to be far more entertaining and dear than the Munsch book ever could.

 

[DVCLiz]

Maybe parents that are not as versed as you seem to be in children's literature choose books that mean something to them. I honestly had no idea there were children's literature snobs. The people who enjoy this book obviously aren't suffering through it. If you don't like it, don't keep it in your library. Your righteous posts about a book a parent would read to their young child seem a little silly. It is a book and as long as parents are reading to their children, picking apart the material seems petty..but you're the expert.

MosMom, don't you consider yourself to be versed in choosing food for your children? In making decisions about what they play with, where they go to school, how they spend their entertainment time? Does any of that decision-making come from your convictions that there are good and bad choices in each of those areas? How did you make those choices? Where did you learn that information? And why did it matter to you - why didn't you just take the first thing you saw on the grocery store shelf, the first toy you found at a yard sale, the first movei that started in the next five minutes after you arrived at the therater? Does it make you a snob to say you won't do certain things because you think there are better choices out there for your child? I don't see any other area where a parent would make a choice based on quality and get called a snob about it.

I am an expert in children's literature. I went to graduate school, got an advanced degree, and practiced in my field for 17 years. And I do have some professional convictions and obviously I do feel strongly about them. I can't think of another situation in which someone would bring professional knowledge to a DIS thread and end up being told she was a snob. Would a lawyer get that reaction if she ansered a legal question? What about DEbinIA when she answers a medical question? Did anyone say, "Oh, you're just a medical snob" when she gave factual information based on her professional knowledge?

I think what's getting my goat, so to speak, is the fact that so many people keep saying, "It's just a book" and my very strong feeling is that "just a book" doesn't mean anything unless its a good book as well.

 

[MosMom]

I didn't mean to call YOU a snob. We are all snobs about our own individual "things". I am a snob about many things. I just meant I had no idea there were children's literature "snobs".

Do you really think "I love you forever" will hurt a small child? The comparisons you make are all things that can harm our children and that is why we make the choices we do.

I completely understand YOUR right to choose the books for your family and you not enjoying this book. However, you come off really self righteous to those who DO like this book. You're not going to change our mind. That book means something to my family. I'm not going to stop liking it because you think it is a poor choice.

 

[Skywalker]

/
I am an expert in children's literature. I went to graduate school, got an advanced degree, and practiced in my field for 17 years.

Well, DVCLiz has spoken! Let's all burn our copies of the book and then lock the thread because no more needs to be said.

Oh, but before that, DVCLiz, would you mind providing us with a list of DVCLiz-Approved books that would be acceptable to read to our children?

Thank you.

 

[Sir Ron]

The book is pretty simple. Yet it will not hurt a child. I think both sides are overexaggerating.

 

[ead79]

I love this book--it makes me cry every time I read it, and I don't even have children yet.

Literature, like art, is pretty subjective. There are certainly some standards by which both books and artwork can be evaluated, but in the end a lot of it comes down to opinion/perspective. In my opinion, Love You Forever is a good children's book. I'm entitled to that opinion with or without advanced degrees in children's literature. Just as anyone with an opposing opinion is entitled to theirs. I don't care for Picasso's art, but I love Monet's. It doesn't make Picasso lovers wrong or make Picasso's works "junk" just because I don't care for them, and vice versa.

 

[Maleficent13]

But if I had a limited amount of time to share books with my preschool or early elementary age child, I wouldn't be willing to take that same attitude. I'd be trying my best to share as many great pieces of quality litereature as I could. Would we love every single one of them? Of course not. But that doesn't mean I would just say, "Oh, well, guess anything that comes between two covers and has colored illustrations is fine."

I guess this is the difference. I don't have a limited amount of time to read to my preschooler. I will read to her for hours if she wants. I have a children's library of about 300 books (it increases weekly) and we will easily go through 20-30 books a night. We never get bored. So if one or two "mediocre" books make it into the mix, I'm not getting my panties in a wad.

As far as whether a lawyer or a doc would be considered "snobby" for their opinions, I can tell you that yeah, I have seen both lawyers AND doctors be snotty on this board. Usually it's because of their delivery.

 

[DVCLiz]

Well I don't think all children's sleepwear needs to be flame-retardant, actually.

It's not as if children spontaneously combust whilst sleeping. The CPSC made those sleepwear recommendations in the 70's when many people smoked and space heaters were commonly used (and not made as safely as they are today). The statistics on children who did catch fire in sleepwear overwhelmingly showed that it was an issue of 1)playing with matches and 2) wearing loose, flowing clothing. It's not even the material from which the sleepwear is made, it's the loose, flowing nature of a robe or nightgown. Hence those very tight cotton pajamas (which all of my children hate!).

A child is in no more danger sleeping in a tshirt than they are playing in a tshirt.

But I digress.

I think this book is creepy, so it's not on my bookshelf. I don't really care whether it is on anyone else's bookshelf. I think most children's books are badly written; it's a rare treat to find a June B. Jones or a Big Hungry Bear out there.

I did have to struggle with that flame retardant suuff - it was so scratchy!!! I was glad when mine grew out of those sizes and we could go to Vicotria's Secret sweatpants!!!!!

As far as the books, there are a lot of badly written ones out there. Which makes it all the better when you do find the quality ones.

Another issue that will really get my blood boiling is the concept of celebrity authors writing children's books. With the possible exception of Jamie Lee Curtis, who I think did do a decent job with the first book she wrote about adoption (I haven't really kept up to know what else she wrote and how it was) I find most of those books to be uniformly awful, too. I mean, come on, Madonna is suddenly a great children's author??? Ick and double ick.

My brother once met The Duchess of York when she was in New York siging copies of her Budgie the Helicopter series. Both of my girls have autographed copies. Every time I weed the bookcase I struggle because I think the stories are crappy, but then again it is Fergie's signature in her pre toe-sucking days, so it stays.

 

[Sandy321]

Guuilty of reading first and last page -

I hated this book - it was ok - but like others the end creeped me out - went to a literature talk and found out that the publisher requested the last 2 "chapters" of life... It would be a better book without the creep factor - but I understand what, why... (of course I thought of that mother on Dr Phil yesterday who was 'uninvited to her sons wedding)

Have you read "I'll Always Love You" by Willehm (I think that's right?) I loved that book - but it was about a boy and his puppy who grew, and the dog dies...

I"m surprised about Junie B Jones, I didnt get those books (or Capt Underpants either for that matter) but I have readers too - and dh it was his thing to read to all the kids - we have hard of hearing boys - and were told the best thing to do for them is to read aloud and talk about concepts, vocabulary etc - so dh read to them aloud, a large variety - they would pick, he would pick a book - he actually continued this until they were in High School (often reading books required for school - again they were HOH and it helped them tremendously - ds#1 is graduating from college in may - and now has a professor wanting ds to explore publishing ds works!!)

I really feel it was due to the committment dh made to them in reading aloud - all kinds of literature!!

 

[drag n' fly]

I cannot believe what this thread has morphed into. Robert Munsch is an exceptional author and this book has such heartfelt meaning. I was a pre-school teacher for 23 years and read this book so many times I lost count. I may not be a well educated literary expert but after reading a book over a hundred times I am an expert in kids books. I know which ones have an effect and which ones don't. Great literature comes from the heart and this book was written by Mr. Munsch in memory of his 2 children born dead and the song associated with it is the song he created to soothe himself over his incredible sadness at losing his 2 babies.

 

[DVCLiz]

Well, DVCLiz has spoken! Let's all burn our copies of the book and then lock the thread because no more needs to be said.

Oh, but before that, DVCLiz, would you mind providing us with a list of DVCLiz-Approved books that would be acceptable to read to our children?

Thank you.

Sure. Go to your local library and ask the librarian for the ALA (American Library Association) list of recommended books for the particular age group you want. They provide a list each year of titles that have been chosen by a panel of (dare I say it?) experts in the field of children's literature - teachers, school and public librarians, professional book reviewers, etc. It's probably online as well. Look for the Caldecott award winners - and if some of them are too weird for you (and I agree, sometimes they are!) then make sure you look at the list of Honor books - the bridesmaids of the children's literature award world. There are usually at least 3 or 4 honor books for every winner, so over the last ten years you would have at least 50 or 60 choices from that list alone.

Go to your library or bookstore and look for Jim Trelease's Read Aloud Handbook. It's a great resource, too. I especially like the fact that he is an advocate for reading aloud to all ages, not just little kids. A family that reads novels to each other is a rare thing, but it's a great way to stay connected and share a love of reading in the preteen and teen years. There are lots of other resources, too. One I remember especially (but sadly, not the title!) was a great list of books to read or share with girls - books that had strong female characters, etc.

Or go to the bookstore and look at he books. Ask the staff their opinions. They know what sells but they should also be able to tell you what sells because it's good quality and what sells because it's the latest series book. Almost all of the people who love children's books are panting to talk about them. I mean, look at me!!! I'm practically shouting with strangers on a Disney message board!!!

 

[beckanoah]

Well here's a link I guess...

http://www.ala.org/ala/alsc/awardsscholarships/childrensnotable/notablecbooklist/currentnotable.htm

If you click down the sides of the page, it has different years...

 

[Chloe'sMom]

I'm in the creepy camp.
"The Giving Tree" isn't my favorite either.

~Amanda

 

[DVCLiz]

I didn't mean to call YOU a snob. We are all snobs about our own individual "things". I am a snob about many things. I just meant I had no idea there were children's literature "snobs".

Do you really think "I love you forever" will hurt a small child? The comparisons you make are all things that can harm our children and that is why we make the choices we do.

I completely understand YOUR right to choose the books for your family and you not enjoying this book. However, you come off really self righteous to those who DO like this book. You're not going to change our mind. That book means something to my family. I'm not going to stop liking it because you think it is a poor choice.

No, of course I don't think this book will "hurt" a small child. I'd just feel more comfortable if we could acknowledge that there are two different things going on here. People keep saying it's a good book when what they really mean is "We have an emotional attachment to this book because we have a sweet memory attached to it." That's not the same as literary quality, but the vocabulary seems to be the same. My "good book" isn't your "good book" because we are using different standards to judge. That's really all I'm saying. I have a bunch of sweet childhood memories associated with a lot of junky stuff - a certain blankie with cartoon characters comes to mind. I hated the series and we regularly make fun of how smarmy and gross it was, but I wouldn't trade that blanket for anything. But that doesn't make (OK, it was Strawberry Shortcake) suddenly morph into a great female protagonist...