Anybody's child have the book "Love you Forever" by Robert Munsch

[beckanoah]

Just the same as if a book is "Literary Quality" doesn't make it a good book either!

 

[Planogirl]

I think that kids should read both for enlightenment and for pleasure.

A teacher once let DS borrow a Goosebumps book to take home. Great literature? No way. But she explained that her first focus was to urge kids to read and to read everything. She wanted them to learn that reading is fun and then they can worry about the great classics and whether a book was given an award by some self-named experts.

I agree with this philosophy and all I've ever done was set parameters for DS. Beyond that he could read whatever he wished and he always has. He was rarely seen while growing up without a book and I think that's good. I couldn't care less which books won awards but I'm sure that they were mixed in there too.

 

[MosMom]

Well, I see it is clear we have different expectations of toddler literature. I'll leave it at that.

 

[DVCLiz]

I'm in the creepy camp.
"The Giving Tree" isn't my favorite either.

~Amanda

No, I never liked The Giving Tree, either. And a lot of people felt about it the way I do about Love You Forever.

But Shel Silverstein was a talented poet, and kids really were drawn to his books like Where the Sidewalk Ends. Later, I saw Jack Prelutsky do the same thing.

 

[Sir Ron]

I agree reading for fun is OK. However, I detest the Junie B. Jones books because of the poor grammar. There is no reason to teach young children improper grammar.

 

[Louise-Montreal]

DVC Liz- What is the criterion for good children's literature? I am not trying to be snarky- I truly am curious.

 

[Maleficent13]

Just the same as if a book is "Literary Quality" doesn't make it a good book either!

I thought this bore repeating.

There are some books out there hailed as "Literary Masterpieces" which are complete pieces of crap that no one outside of a college English major will ever make it through.

 

[DVCLiz]

I guess this is the difference. I don't have a limited amount of time to read to my preschooler. I will read to her for hours if she wants. I have a children's library of about 300 books (it increases weekly) and we will easily go through 20-30 books a night. We never get bored. So if one or two "mediocre" books make it into the mix, I'm not getting my panties in a wad.

As far as whether a lawyer or a doc would be considered "snobby" for their opinions, I can tell you that yeah, I have seen both lawyers AND doctors be snotty on this board. Usually it's because of their delivery.

Mal, by limited time I meant the number of years a child is a preschooler. Everyone has the same 5 or 6 years before kids start to move into chapter books and more advanced reading, and leave picture books behind. And your circumstances are ideal - you are exposed to a wide variety of books, so you know which ones are better than others. And of course, if some Berenstain Bears happen to make their way in, it won't matter a bit in the long run. But that's because you have 20 or 30 options a night. If all you were doing was choosing a book like the one we were discussing because you heard it
was "good" or someone gave it to you as a shower gift, you wouldn't know how much more, and better, was out there.

And I meant to use the word "snobby" because that's what I was called when I gave a professional opinion. "Snotty" is a different matter entirely. I didn't mean to be either, but I guess it's hard to separate an opinion about a thing from the person who loves that thing, so I can understand why I would be called that. It wasn't my intention, though.

 

[DVCLiz]

I thought this bore repeating.

There are some books out there hailed as "Literary Masterpieces" which are complete pieces of crap that no one outside of a college English major will ever make it through.

Oops, I was one of those, too!! Guilty as charged...

I read a bunch of "pieces of crap" in college. Bleak House sends cold chills down my spine, for example. BUT, it still met the criteria for a literary masterpiece, so it wasn't a piece of crap from a literary standpoint.

Still, I'd much rather reread Bridget Jones than ever have to pick up a Dickens novel again....

 

[DVCLiz]

DVC Liz- What is the criterion for good children's literature? I am not trying to be snarky- I truly am curious.

Louise, that's a good question, and if I'm going to be so opinionated, I'd better be able to produce!!! But I don't know know off-hand where to send you for that, so let me go see if I can find some references and I will be back later.

 

[Robinrs]

I love this book...

My parents were both very ill and dying when my son brought it home. He saw how I took care of them and how important it was to be there for your parents, the way they were there for you.

My son and I cry everytime we read it. He asked me if I'd love him forever the way the book says...

I told him yes, and your child will love you the same way, too.

It's all what you get from it. I don't see it as a lack of separation but a connection that never dies. I've noticed that this is not the way some families live their lives but mine always did and always will. We love each other till death... parents, children and extended family, and whoever joins becomes a part of it but never disolves it.

 

[luvmyboys]

Count me in as another one who finds the book creepy!! The first time I read it to a child I was babysitting, I was thinking "awww, that's kind of cute" for the first half, and then as the mom starts crawling across the floor to peek at her son sleeping, then driving across town with a ladder (!!!) to break into his house and rock him, I just started thinking "this lady has some serious issues!"

Still can't stand that book...if anyone gives us a copy I'll be putting it in the donate pile right away!

EXACTLY my thoughts!

 

[va32h]

I agree reading for fun is OK. However, I detest the Junie B. Jones books because of the poor grammar. There is no reason to teach young children improper grammar.

In the interests of fairness, I just want to point out that I, not DVC Liz, brought up like the Junie B. Jones books.

DVCLiz did not endorse them.

(Also, the 5-7 year old character of Junie B. uses bad grammar in her dialog, because she talks the way children often talk. The books are, IMO, absolutely hilarious.)

 

[Sir Ron]

Well I wasn't referring to DVCLiz in the slightest. I just made my point. My daughters never really talked like Junie B. Jones at that age. However, I do realize a lot of children do. So, why not model correct dialogue for the children to read? Poor grammar and dialogue has nothing to do with the book being funny.

 

[DVCLiz]

Here's what ALA says, and I start there because they were the governing body of books when I was a practicing librarian. Again, that's American Library Association.

CHILDREN'S NOTABLE BOOKS
Terms and Criteria
FUNCTION STATEMENT
To select, annotate, and present for publication annually the list of notable children's books of the preceding year.

CRITERIA
Notable is defined as: Worthy of note or notice, important, distinguished, outstanding. As applied to children's books, notable should be thought to include books of especially commendable quality, books that exhibit venturesome creativity, and books of fiction, information, poetry and pictures for all age levels (through age 14) that reflect and encourage children's interests in exemplary ways.
The evaluative criteria to be used are:

literary quality;
originality of text and illustration;
clarity and style of language;
excellence of illustration;
excellence of design and format;
subject matter of interest and value to children;
the likelihood of acceptance by children.
BOARD ACTIONS: "The ALA Notable Children's Books List, compiled by the ALSC Book Evaluation Committee, shall include the annual selections of the Newbery and Caldecott Award and Honor Books." - (July 1976)

"The ALA Notable Children's Books List, compiled by the ALSC Notable Children's Books Committee, shall include the books selected annually by the Batchelder Award Committee." - (July 1981).

"Beginning with 2004, include the Sibert medal and honor books, and the Belpré medal and honor books with a copyright date of the previous year, on the annual Notable Children's Books List" - (November 2003).

"Include the Theodor Seuss Geisel Award winner and honor books automatically on the list of books created by the Notable Children's Books Committee, starting with the first award in 2006." - (January 2006)

ELIGIBILITY
To be eligible for consideration a book must:


Be a book for which children are a potential audience. See criteria for age range.
Have been published in the United States during the year preceding the Midwinter Meeting at which the selection is made. This means that the book was published in that year, was available for purchase in that year, and has a copyright date no later than that year. A book might have a copyright date prior to the year under consideration but, for various reasons, was not published until the year under consideration.
NOTE: There is no limitation as to format. A book may be in hard or paper covers, spiral bound, in portfolio, etc. It is expected that books will have a collective unity of story-line, theme, or concept developed through text or pictures or a combination thereof.

NOTABLE CHILDREN'S BOOKS LIST
The Notable Children's Books list is an annual list of the books selected from the publishing of a particular calendar year. The committee reads extensively during the year and at the ALA Midwinter Meeting selects for the list those titles they believe to be notable. The list is intended for children: to assist them in selecting books to read, to encourage them to seek out those that are considered notable among the many books available in bookstores and libraries. While it is not expected that every children's library of all sizes and types will necessarily select all of the books listed, it is hoped that nationwide, through library networks and bookstores, children will find these books to be accessible.

Not everyone is expected to agree with the committee's decision on the notable books. However, disagreement can lead to a sharpening of one's own critical sense and can be used as the basis for discussion in a group setting.

 

[cruiserkaren]

Creepiest.....Book.....EVER........

Agreed! I CANNOT stand this weirdo book.

Whoops! It's one we "accidently" misplaced.

 

[DVCLiz]

In the interests of fairness, I just want to point out that I, not DVC Liz, brought up like the Junie B. Jones books.

DVCLiz did not endorse them.

(Also, the 5-7 year old character of Junie B. uses bad grammar in her dialog, because she talks the way children often talk. The books are, IMO, absolutely hilarious.)

But I do love Junie B. for the same reasons va32h does. I find them a little subversive and after a pretty steady diet of good girls I thought it was refreshing to see a little spice in a female character.

Sir Ron, my opinion is that a series like Junie B. is a great place to start a discussion with your child. Yes, Junie is sassy, but Barbara Park is a good-enough author to provide that sort of plot within the framework of a very well crafted piece of writing. So was Beverly Cleary, for that matter. And Ramona doesn't always come up smelling like a rose, either.

And it's absolutely within your right as a parent to say no to it - that's a different subject entirely!!!! But disagreeing with the style or content is different from calling it a bad book. It's a well written book with a content you disapprove of.

 

[DVCLiz]

I think that kids should read both for enlightenment and for pleasure.

A teacher once let DS borrow a Goosebumps book to take home. Great literature? No way. But she explained that her first focus was to urge kids to read and to read everything. She wanted them to learn that reading is fun and then they can worry about the great classics and whether a book was given an award by some self-named experts.

I agree with this philosophy and all I've ever done was set parameters for DS. Beyond that he could read whatever he wished and he always has. He was rarely seen while growing up without a book and I think that's good. I couldn't care less which books won awards but I'm sure that they were mixed in there too.

Planogirl, I know this was a page or two back, but I wanted to say that I TOTALLY agree with this. My issue with the preschool book we are talking about has nothing to do with how I feel about preteens and teens reading, and what material they choose. I guess I see it as a strong background in good litereature gives them the foundation. Then, at the age when they sometimes start to see reading as uncool or boring, I think all bets are off - with the hope, of course, that something good will still appeal to them and that they will develop an ability to choose good books they will enjoy reading. But Goosebumps helped many a kid standing in front of me with a mom breathing down his neck find a book he didn't fight to keep from reading.

 

[va32h]

But I do love Junie B. for the same reasons va32h does. I find them a little subversive and after a pretty steady diet of good girls I thought it was refreshing to see a little spice in a female character.

Sir Ron, my opinion is that a series like Junie B. is a great place to start a discussion with your child. Yes, Junie is sassy, but Barbara Park is a good-enough author to provide that sort of plot within the framework of a very well crafted piece of writing. So was Beverly Cleary, for that matter. And Ramona doesn't always come up smelling like a rose, either.

And it's absolutely within your right as a parent to say no to it - that's a different subject entirely!!!! But disagreeing with the style or content is different from calling it a bad book. It's a well written book with a content you disapprove of.

Oh I love Beverly Cleary - and not just the Ramona books but all of hers, including the high school ones. My daughter (now 12) just never did get into them, sadly. I guess they are too "old-fashioned" for her tastes. She had the same problem with Eleanor Estes and the "Borrowers" series. Although she did like "From the Mixed Up Files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankwiler".

I think she will like "The Westing Game" too, if I can find a copy - and I'm hoping she will like Ellen Conford, whose books are sadly out of print.

My kids have always been suspicious of any book with an obvious "message". Or ones in which the characters are so virtuous as to be wholly unattainable. My daughter likes the mysteries in Nancy Drew, but it getting tired of reading about perfect Nancy and her perfect titian hair and her shiny blue convertible.

Oh and we also don't like the Giving Tree (which my husband calls The Martyr Tree!)

 

[elgerber]

It gets kind of creepy at the end when Mom is stalking her grown son

I'm jumping in late, but I totally agree with this. I read it once, and that was the last anyone saw of that book at my house. It gave me the heebie jeebies.