Anybody else want DDP to end!!

[disneyjunkie]

To be honest, it wouldn't surprise me if food quality went down due to the popularity and use of the DDP- but that is Disney trying to economize- its not people's fault for wanting to enjoy a few nice restaurants on their vacation and try to save a few bucks. I think a lot of the reason that some folks hate the dining plan and complain about it comes down to snobbery. Before the dining plan they got to be the rarified few that really "understood" good dining, and now that everyone can go it just isn't as much fun- lending to much whining (particularly when people are getting it for free!). Every so often you'll see a post that complains about people's kids in nice restaurants or how they dress at a TS, etc. and you can really see that snobbery in action!

ITA

Disney has always had a dining plan. However, many families couldn't afford to take advantage of it.

The current dining plan is very affordable. It allows many of us to experience places that were once out of reach.

I used the MYW dining plan during our April 2005 trip. I'm now hooked. I can't imagine returing without it.

I wouldn't mind if they removed a few restaurants from the plan or increased the number of signature places. As long as the price remains reasonable, I'm happy.

 

[Quinn222]

The current dining plan is very affordable. It allows many of us to experience places that were once out of reach.

If it was available to me I'd probably use it. The thing is though, you aren't really experiencing the places that were once out of reach, you're just eating in the same building those places used to be. Now you're getting some other, not as good, not as interesting, not as varied, place.

 

[bicker]

To be honest, it wouldn't surprise me if food quality went down due to the popularity and use of the DDP- but that is Disney trying to economize- its not people's fault for wanting to enjoy a few nice restaurants on their vacation and try to save a few bucks.

I don't think blame really "works" -- there's enough of it to go around. Disney, like all companies, aims to please, because that's what gets people to buy. Any decrease in food quality in the interests of reducing cost is an indirect reflection of what we guests, as a group, are driving the company towards offering.

If we uniformly punished companies that provided lower grade offerings by buying less, and rewarded companies that provided higher grade offerings by paying more, then those companies would respond by offering higher grade offerings. All throughout our society, though, there has been a big push by consumers for the lowest price, "regardless", so companies are responding by giving us what we want: Low cost, low grade. The real losers are the few consumers who are willing to pay more for a better offering; since they're so few, there are so many fewer appropriate offerings available to them.

Warning: Quality Assurance Mumbo-Jumbo follows.

Note that what we're really taking about here is "grade" not "quality". The food quality hasn't gone down. Rather the grade of food offerings have gone down. Instead of lobster or crab on some menus, now we see salmon or shrimp. Still, high quality food, but a lower grade offering.

I think a lot of the reason that some folks hate the dining plan and complain about it comes down to snobbery. Before the dining plan they got to be the rarified few that really "understood" good dining, and now that everyone can go it just isn't as much fun

No, I think that's off-target. Most of the folks complaining are complaining about what you yourself alluded to and I expanded on above: Before the Dining Plan, the restaurants needed to offer a higher grade of offering to attract diners. Now, they don't, and so they're not. Folks who want that higher grade of experience are now limited to a much lower number of offerings (the signature restaurants).

 

[emma'smom]

The dining plan really makes our vacation "all inclusive". This is what we really like about it. We didn't have the dining plan for two nights on our last trip and really missed it. Every meal became stressful! Were we ordering in the most economical way? Should the kids share a meal? Do we really need two desserts, even though we want them? Then the bill would arrive and it was another round of "we'll how much did this cost us? Gee...this vacation is really adding up,...etc". With the Dining Plan (paid, not free)....there is just time to relax and not worry about the nickle and diming.

Also, we almost always change at least one ADR once we arrive. We haven't really ever had too much trouble at the 5:30 mark when we call in the morning or the night before.

I called in May 06 to make all of my ADR's for a June '06 last minute trip and didn't have a problem getting anything we wanted. So, one doesn't have to be a 180 day planner!

Also, I don't see what's wrong with expecting folks to do a little planning for their vacation if they was the most popular places/times.

 

[Tidus]

I think Disney could make a few changes in making ADR's that would help w/ some problems. We shouldn't be able to book ADR's until 30 days out. I can imagine that there are alot of people that booked 90 days ago and may not even be going anymore. They may not have bothered to cancel ADR's. Also, people might not triple book restaurants because they might have a better idea where they will be everyday. It's too hard to plan 90 days away. They could try to enforce a policy of not allowing people to book 2-3 restaurants at dinner time. I am looking forward to the DDP this fall! W/out it, we would only do a few TS dinners. If they want to keep some "upscale" restaurants off the list, that's fine w/me. However, Disney is about children too and if this plan allows the little one's to eat at some new places or more character meals, what is the harm in that! Believe me, as a parent of 2 young one's, I will be leaving the more "upscale" restaurants alone. (except for LeCellier, and the DIS board can blame itself for letting people in on how good it is!)

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

For whomever said the free dining plan will never go away, I say wrong. As soon as a more profitable way to offer the food to the masses from their outlets comes along (probably with some industry dynamic change) they'll do away with this just as they dilluted the Disney Dining Card and the unique quality of the signature restaurants. Just as they've made room discounts a hard to find item, etc.

To those thinking the only way they can experience the signature restaurants is a program like this, I understand your point but sadly you are not experiencing the signature restaurants as they were before, only a watered down version (this doesn't mean great dining experiences aren't to be had, they can be but the choices and quality of those choices available is no longer anywhere near what it once was).

To those confusing the elements of complaints, I don't think anyone seriously believes Disney isn't happy having their restaurants full. We will all have to live with this, but there is little doubt that the quality of these restaurants is and will continue to be affected.

What I wonder is if Disney suddenly found the one price buffet was the real way to go (i.e the big money maker) and began turning the signatures one by one into buffets who'd be the big loser? Some people could argue that they would still be the finest dining experience they've ever had, some people would be thrilled with the unlimited portions, some would love the one price system but people who genuinely love what Chef's do? Out of luck, I guess. This may sound like a far out scenerio but I know for a fact that Disney loves the arrangement they have with the vendor restaurants (Shula's, HOB, etc.) and can forsee the day when they leave the fine dining experiences to outside groups who will never participate in any dining plan or character meals (think of City Walk and DD) and if you think of it WDW is really only running one truly unique restaurant anyway.

 

[lustergirl]

WAH!



Was that my out loud voice?!
Oooops.

Well, luckily for people like me I doubt DDP will ever end... I doubt they'll do away with the free dining hurrican specail either.

I'm thrilled to take my family on a great vacation like this and applaud Disney for making it afforadable for those of us just learning our 'dining out manners'.

I second this. It is people's fault if they don't plan ahead and call to make those ADR's not anyone else's especially Disney. You planned on taking trip to Disney so why not take the time to make your ADR'S in advance. Some people want something for nothing. The matter of free dining or actually paying out of pocket is irrevelant- you still get the same amount of food and credits to use regardless. Making my ADR's for upcoming trip in September (with the free dining plan) was part of the fun I had planning this trip.

 

[bicker]

For whomever said the free dining plan will never go away, I say wrong. As soon as a more profitable way to offer the food to the masses from their outlets comes along (probably with some industry dynamic change) they'll do away with this just as they dilluted the Disney Dining Card and the unique quality of the signature restaurants.

I agree, but without all the loaded language. It's not "dillution" -- changes are made in response to changes in demand, and changes in the market environment that affect revenue and cost. "Dillution" implies malevalent intent, when in reality all that is happening is natural market-driven forces.

To those thinking the only way they can experience the signature restaurants is a program like this, I understand your point but sadly you are not experiencing the signature restaurants as they were before, only a watered down version (this doesn't mean great dining experiences aren't to be had, they can be but the choices and quality of those choices available is no longer anywhere near what it once was).

Sorry, but I don't agree. Our meal at Artist Point this past January was as good as it ever was. However, beyond that, I believe the Dining Plan is precisely the wrong way to go about experiencing signature meals. I'd sooner pay OOP for a signature meal than using 2TS.

To those confusing the elements of complaints, I don't think anyone seriously believes Disney isn't happy having their restaurants full. We will all have to live with this, but there is little doubt that the quality of these restaurants is and will continue to be affected.

The grade and quality of offerings has always, and shall always, vary over time, driven principally by customer behavior.

What I wonder is if Disney suddenly found the one price buffet was the real way to go (i.e the big money maker) and began turning the signatures one by one into buffets who'd be the big loser? Some people could argue that they would still be the finest dining experience they've ever had

I think this is a disingenuous statement. Sorry, I just simply disagree with what you're saying.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

Fun??? Yeah planning a dining menu six months out must rank up their with watching paint dry or cleaning the garage. (Just a joke). Seriously, I know some people do get a kick out of planning but what about the rest of us? Just tough luck? I mean Disney isn't holding ANYTHING back for same day or walkup's. I'll live with it because I have no choice but it seems selective and short sighted and has actually caused me personally to frequent the great restaurants in Celebration and City Walk more frequently, so Disney does lose (one diner, big deal) but I know more and more locals who aren't even taking Disney Dining seriously anymore. Could this haunt them in the future?

BTW, how do you know which night you'll feel like a steak vs. Seafood that far out? I'm just curious because I generally don't know what I feel like until that actual day and there is nothing wose that ordering a $40 steak on a day when you didn't really feel like it, but in this case you will have to because six months ago you were forced to make these decisions.

 

[bicker]

I mean Disney isn't holding ANYTHING back for same day or walkup's.

That would be unfair to those willing to plan ahead.

it seems selective and short sighted and has actually caused me personally to frequent the great restaurants in Celebration and City Walk more frequently, so Disney does lose (one diner, big deal)

They actually don't lose; if you cannot get an ADR because the restaurant is full, they don't lose anything. They basically had a choice between serving you or serving the person who got the ADR.

BTW, how do you know which night you'll feel like a steak vs. Seafood that far out? I'm just curious because I generally don't know what I feel like until that actual day

The day affects how much I want to eat. It doesn't affect which are my favorite foods. Each full-service TS restaurant has a variety of options, enough choices to satisfy however I'm feeling that day. I do agree, though, that buffets don't offer that choice; but luckily I don't book them that often, and when I do, it's about seeing the children interact with the characters, not about the food.

 

[Luv2Roam]

I think too many get carried away with Having to Plan down to even what they are going to order when they eat a restaurant. But if that is what they like to do, there is worse habits!
As a local who frequents Disney often -- including restaurants -- I can't say the DDP has put a big damper on my dining plans.
IF I just felt compelled to eat at a particular restaurant, I would call ahead as far as I needed to.
I guess I am just a pretty flexible person. For those who are so flexible they don't want to make plans for anything more than a few hours ahead of time, then I am sure they run into issues.
We have wanted to eat at sit down last minute. Either we find something suitable and convenient on Disney property, or we don't. Not a big deal either way.
There are too many good places to eat at WDW and not for it to be a concern. And (gasp) there is always the eat at home version!

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

Oh goody bicker and I can disagree some.

I will actually agree with your disection of my use of the word "dillution", but the shrinking menu options has to be adressed somehow even if dillution is the wrong word.

My meal at Artist Point last month was GREAT as well. I had the Buffalo Steak as always, my daughter had the salmon (not as good as usual though) and my wife and youngest had a great pork tenderloin. All in all good but still we didn't have the choice of quail, venison or pheasant as we had in the past when this restaurant was known for such variety. Now you don't need to tell me why these items are gone, I fully understand that the demand was simply not as great as the alternatives but it behooves me to understand how you could call a recent expereince up to par with that of folks who were lucky enough to have experienced Artist Point as it was originally intended.

To the grade and quality I somewhat disagree. When a professional chef is given his reign over his domain the quality will be maintained to the chef's standards. I will agree that at WDW chef's do have a profit center from above to answer to which makes your comment taken in context correct to a point.

As for being disingenuous I believe your dismissal of my projection of fiction is just that. Can you not forsee a scenerio whereby Disney would abandon it's expensive and not very lucrative business of professional cooking and only offer pretty fast food while hiring outside professionals to cater to the rest? Can you really not see that possibility?

 

[bluejasmine]

I love the DDP! I have to say that even before the plan there were several places you couldnt just walk into.. In the past we were able to walk into a few but some of the more popular ones (St Angel, Prime Time, Ohanas comes to mind) you couldnt get into. I have walked into Sci Fi, RainForest, Capt Jacks in the past. Then again since that trip I always make ADRS so I can get into my fave restaurants, its not that big a deal to me.. I have to admit the DDP allows my family to get into restaurants I normally couldnt afford so of course I love it. Without the DDP we would be eatting all CS with a TS or two thrown in if we were lucky..

 

[nannon16]

I'm not seeing too much trouble booking close to my trip. I'm arriving Aug 31, which is during free dining time (and our trip surrounds Labor Day weekend, which I'm sure will bring a little more crowds in). We had existing ADR's but have changes some of our plans for certain days and needed to switch a few around. I called this morning and had absolutely no problem getting any of the ADR's we wanted. I had to adjust times slightly but not anything that would affect our plans (in most cases if I asked for 6:00 for dinner, I could have either 5:45 or 6:20). I'm sure I wouldn't be able to get ADR's the day before for the really popular places but I don't think planning a month ahead of time to be a big deal if I can still get the places we want.

 

[Lewisc]

Some guests book their trip within 6 months. A SW DING fare may motivate a last minute trip

Some people who live in the Orlando area eat in the restaurants.

It's not a matter of "fault". Disney has to decide if they want to accomodate all their guests. It sure looks like some restaurants open up extra reservations 30-60 days out.

I second this. It is people's fault if they don't plan ahead and call to make those ADR's not anyone else's especially Disney. You planned on taking trip to Disney so why not take the time to make your ADR'S in advance. Some people want something for nothing. The matter of free dining or actually paying out of pocket is irrevelant- you still get the same amount of food and credits to use regardless. Making my ADR's for upcoming trip in September (with the free dining plan) was part of the fun I had planning this trip.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

nannon 16, that's very interesting (and encouraging) and I'll be sure to check up on this as I'd been told that Disney "overbooked" it's dining plans for August and September but if you're getting your pick this close then this either isn't true or else they just aren't booking many people NOT on the DDP. Either way, good luck for you!!!

 

[MissMichelle]

Lover of the DDP here...I like having it so I don't have to pull out a credit card or cash...If it wasn't for the plan I'd be eating many more CS, and also wouldn't be going a 2nd time this year. So I hope it stays.
I do see what some are saying about the fact there are no tables etc, but if WDW keeps coming out with other great rates, then places will be packed anyway. Time are changing.

 

[bicker]

I will actually agree with your disection of my use of the word "dillution", but the shrinking menu options has to be adressed somehow even if dillution is the wrong word.

Shrinking menus is a nationwide phenomenon at the finer restaurants. This isn't a WDW thing. The best chefs and chef consultants advise restauranteurs to limit their menu and focus on doing a smaller number of dishes well. "Smaller menus" was #6 on the list of Top 10 Restaurant Trends of 2005, according to Restaurant Hospitality magazine.

So this isn't a cost or quality thing, but rather a reflection of culinary artistry, something which you don't get much at the 1TS restaurants, but you do get at the signature restaurants.

My meal at Artist Point last month was GREAT as well. I had the Buffalo Steak as always, my daughter had the salmon (not as good as usual though) and my wife and youngest had a great pork tenderloin. All in all good but still we didn't have the choice of quail, venison or pheasant as we had in the past when this restaurant was known for such variety.

There was elk sausage on the menu in January, but indeed the variety has been reduced, perhaps a reflection of how less adventurous diners are these days. I think the further we get from 9/11, and the longer we're entrenched in Iraq, the more people discount in their minds the impact of being a country at war. It affects the psyche of the nation, no matter how routine things seems to be. One of the major trends we've clearly seen is a return to meat-and-potatoes, even at the finer restaurants.

it behooves me to understand how you could call a recent expereince up to par with that of folks who were lucky enough to have experienced Artist Point as it was originally intended.

The restaurant, just like everything at WDW, was originally intended to live and grow and respond to its guests. One of the things my older brother (who's really a culinary fuddyduddy) complained about when I took him to Artist Point years ago was that there was nothing he could order there because all the meat was either smoked or was game. (Even the prime rib, which is what he ended up ordering, was smoked.) There is now a grilled beef tenderloin which was not available then. So while there are fewer exotic items on the menu now, there is perhaps just as much variety; the variety has simply moved away from the exotic toward the basic, in response to more folks becoming like my older brother was.

To the grade and quality I somewhat disagree. When a professional chef is given his reign over his domain the quality will be maintained to the chef's standards.

I think you misunderstood my point. A good chef can provide high quality even with lower grade ingredients: Shrimp instead of crab, for example. And that's what we're getting, now: The same high quality, but just with lower grade ingredients.

As for being disingenuous I believe your dismissal of my projection of fiction is just that. Can you not forsee a scenerio whereby Disney would abandon it's expensive and not very lucrative business of professional cooking and only offer pretty fast food while hiring outside professionals to cater to the rest? Can you really not see that possibility?

I was referring to your comment that, "Some people could argue that they would still be the finest dining experience they've ever had..." That's what I found disingenuous.

 

[reeeoga]

VAriaty: We went to a new place this past weakend. My mother was commenting on the huge selection to choose from (6 pages on the menu). I started looking at what was offered. It came down to: noodles or rice, Sushi (tuna, shrimp, white fish, or crawfish), chicken, or steak. That was it. 6 pages of every combination of those 5 choices. (I had the Sushi plate )

The quality of the food was Tops , the variaty was average .

What Disney may start doing (now that their restaurants are booked solid) is to build smaller upscale places in the nooks of the world. The old skyway to tommorow building, maybe take a less used place and Upscale it.

They can also expand the V & A type selection.

But as long as Disney can book solid a restaurant they will do it. If the quality of the food and service drops, so will the bookings. They will adjust the ddp as time goes.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

Oh, I did misunderstand...I still don't find it disingenuous though because there ARE folks who believe Boma (for example) is the epitome of fine dining. Now I like Boma but IMO it doesn't compare to Jiko (for a myriad of reasons) but there are folks who have been to both and appreciate Boma more. This doesn't mean they haven't tried high end restaurants, doesn't mean their taste buds are faulty, doesn't mean they're lower class...It only means they found Boma more to their liking than Jiko. I mean no negative connotation in this statement but it does go to show that in a huge sampling such as WDW receives, a trend I may find objectionable can easily be countered by someone of the opposite view. My point is what if Disney decides to cater to the Boma loving format? There very well may be statistical information available to Disney to entice them to decide that they no longer wish to entertain fine dining (the hassle of paying chef's, professional staff, high end food supplies) and simply provide simplier fare while allowing outside vendors to cater to the upscale, rich, foodies, locals, etc. (Note: I can tell you that this has been looked at in the past although I am not sure if it's still being studied).