Any Unschoolers here who ditched that method?

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Wow... It's rare to find somebody defending elective childhood illiteracy, so I find your perspective truly fascinating.

I'll keep the rest of my opinions on this subject to myself.

Not To defend the poster entirely, but she did say she doesn't support having children remain illiterate. She is probably referencing information out there regarding some children who are not ready until later than what is considered normal but who do finally learn and are no worse off than peers who learned earlier.

In fact a common statement that I wish I had the source--is that children level out by about 3rd grade (ages 8/9). So early readers and later readers (but reading by age 8 or 9) end up at roughly the same place.

I have never heard up to age 11 (~6th grade)...but I have heard of kids ring delayed to age 8/9 and turning out fine!

I would be nervous of my child was demonstrating no desire or abilities until that age and was when my 2nd child struggled. While I don't like it took her until the beginning of 2nd grade with the help of reading glasses, it was what it was. She is still on the slower side of reading, but tests fine. I may have her evaluated with a vision therapist.

I remember when I went to school that reading did not start until first grade and I was almost 7 before I learned.

So again--I do NOT support what OP's friend is doing...but all the freaking out when a 6 or 7 year old is just starting to learn how to read is fascinating. That is the way it used to be and nothing has changed in our biology that necessitates that skill sooner other than our country feels that we can have smarter kids of they learn things earlier.

Case in point...I did not start phonics with my oldest until first grade. She is quite the reader despite that and would skip chores and stay up all hours of the night to read a book. Her not learning phonics at age 4 or 5 did not affect the outcome.

I sort of think that is what that poster was getting at. Readiness doesn't seem to be a consideration in public schools anymore. PK-4 has become K and k has become first grade. But how has that made things better? I never went to K, but still ended up with a good GPA, a scholarship, and an acceptance letter at UF.

 

[npcougar]

That is exactly what they would do. In my state anyway. It was explained to me when I stopped homeschooling my kids and placed them back in regular school that whatever grade level they tested on is what grade level they would go into. They cannot place an 11 year old who cannot even read into the appropriate grade and expect them to be able to do ANYTHING. I'm not sure how every state does it but I have experienced that situation and know that is exactly what they do. You can't expect a 5th grade teacher to even begin to be able to teach anything to an illiterate child. They would have to go in first grade or into special ed.

This is actually part of my job in an Indiana school corporation. There is no state-wide policy here. Any student who moves in is tested using one of our online testing programs. We place them based on their academic within 2 grade levels. We had an incident where a upper elementary student was placed in a lower elementary grade. The student attempted to molest a younger student in a bathroom. Since then, we are much more conservative and utilize a variety of strategies to address things they are weak in and yet keep them in a grade close to their peers. We have actually have had 7th graders who could get their drivers license.

 

[IndianSummer]

That is exactly what they would do. In my state anyway. It was explained to me when I stopped homeschooling my kids and placed them back in regular school that whatever grade level they tested on is what grade level they would go into. They cannot place an 11 year old who cannot even read into the appropriate grade and expect them to be able to do ANYTHING. I'm not sure how every state does it but I have experienced that situation and know that is exactly what they do. You can't expect a 5th grade teacher to even begin to be able to teach anything to an illiterate child. They would have to go in first grade or into special ed.

Where I live, they put them with their age mates to begin with, if it didn't work out, they might switch them down or (more often) up 1 grade or (rarely) 2. I think if someone told you that they would be placed in whichever grade they test at, they were assuming the child would test within a grade level or so of where they would normally have been, had they been in ps. It seems rather ridiculous to imagine an 11 year old sitting in a grade 1 class and I cannot imagine that anyone would follow through on that plan. Alternate arrangements would likely be made for the child to catch up.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I pity how you feel about most of us out here in the regular world.

Happily we have a terrific school system. Are all teachers perfect? Of course not.
Being involved in a school and having your pulse on all that is going on takes much more effort than perhaps sitting at your kitchen table.

Really? Was that pot shot necessary?

I actually have a newfound respect for teachers because I bust my tush to educate my kids and that is with a purchased syllabus I did not even write.
I assure you that the 6 hours I spend Monday through Thursday managing the school day of 3 children takes a bit more effort than checking in with the teacher how your child is doing.

It is sad when others feel they can judge another parents choices that are perfectly legal and viable. I purpose to not insult parents who choose public schooling for their kids as it is a perfectly legal and viable choice. I wish those that feel it is okay to insult Homeschooler were able to extend the same courtesy.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

That is exactly what they would do. In my state anyway. It was explained to me when I stopped homeschooling my kids and placed them back in regular school that whatever grade level they tested on is what grade level they would go into. They cannot place an 11 year old who cannot even read into the appropriate grade and expect them to be able to do ANYTHING. I'm not sure how every state does it but I have experienced that situation and know that is exactly what they do. You can't expect a 5th grade teacher to even begin to be able to teach anything to an illiterate child. They would have to go in first grade or into special ed.

There Is probably a limit to what they can do. I cannot imagine they would seriously consider placing a pre-pubescent middle schoolaged child in a class with 6 year olds.

I could see a 2-3 year shift...not 5-6 years. Even if they were illiterate.

I had a friend who adopted a girl from Russia. She had some issues and due to lack of education as well as the language barrier, she placed her in Kindergarten at age 7. It worked out great for her. This was at a private school and I have no idea if they adjusted her grade level later. But I don't think they would have done it for an 11 year old especially if the issues were present.

 

[declansdad]

To the OP - it sounds like your friend is an amazing mom, and clearly loves her dks and provides a learning rich environment for them. While her kids may not be where most kids their age are academically, I suspect with all the free time they've had they've developed amazing skills in some subject areas. From what I've observed with other unschoolers, they delve deeply into the things that they love which might not be typical school subjects, but still valuable learning opportunities. I highly doubt they will reach adulthood without the ability to read and write. There will likely be things that come up that will motivate them to learn these things.

If she's not neglectful in other areas of their care, then I highly doubt she's refusing to educate them when they request her help in facilitating their learning.

Kids want to learn. Period. Especially kids that arent forced too. They don't want to be incompetent and when it dawns on her kids that reading is a good idea and a necessary part of life, that will be motivation enough, I suspect. I've seen it over and over again without fail. She doesn't sound lazy and uncaring.Many unschoolers learn to read later than ps kids, 9-11 is an age I hear a lot, when they decide they want to.

Her kids are about to hit an age/stage where academics will probably become a higher priority for them. Kids who've had as much free time as hers have had to play, usually get sick of all that play and start to gravitate towards academics in a way most schooled teens don't. It's not something most people in our society are used to seeing.

This boggles my mind! Are you the OPs friend?

 

[cornflake]

I don't quite see how homeschooling and being "flexible" with schedules prepares one for the real world, but regardless - the post with the list of homeschooled people and homeschoolers, lifted from who knows where because I don't recall an attribution, was hilarious.

Most of the homeschooled were educated before there were schools quite so available - I don't think it's exactly a defense of homeschooling to cite founding fathers who, at times, didn't have formal schools available. The list of homeschoolers was even better, as it was populated by nuts, most of whom seemed to be affiliated with Scientology.

I also suspect the list is ... untrustworthy as I know L. Ron his amusing self did go to high schools and attended college, and I think was an army brat so I don't know he wouldn't have been in school all along. Some of the Scientology followers also send their kids to school - Scientology schools, but schools nontheless.

Source discernment and citation for fun and profit.

 

[IndianSummer]

This boggles my mind! Are you the OPs friend?

Which parts boggle your mind? No, I don't know the OP, I'm not from the US at all.

 

[hambirg]

There is a huge difference between unschooling and living in a abject poverty with no opportunity or resources for learning basic literacy (among other things). I unschool my children and my oldest two are literate and the youngest (5) is learning to read now. My 5y/o isn't learning to read because I'm making her, she just decided she wanted to recently because she loves books and wants to be competent in this area like the rest of us in the family are. A child in abject poverty is probably more preoccupied with being safe and dry and warm and fed. Completely different thing.

Then in regards to the OPs friend, why can't her children read?

Strictly looking at results, they are no better off then those children living in poverty in Afghanistan. Those children don't have the opportunity to learn. It seems that the children the OP is speaking of just don't want to and Mom is not doing enough to facilitate it.

 

[tink_lover]

Yes, I do measure grammatical aptitude as a way of a parent's ability to educate their child. But then again, I am a child of a teacher .

Someone without a high school diploma or GED has no business homeschooling or unschooling their children. We can agree to disagree.

I am also fully aware of the abilities of the teachers at our school. Guess what? It is a Blue Ribbon School (core knowledge curriculum) and we are very happy with our CHOICE! We are lucky to live in a state with an excellent education system.

 

[Colleen27]

I don't get it and I think it is people like that who give unschooling a bad name. I know a lot of successful unschoolers, but they still have expectations, guide their kids in making good choices (educationally and otherwise), and provide rules/discipline. They don't live by a curriculum or say X needs to be learned by age Y and I know a few of the kids didn't really take to reading until 7 or 8, but they were actively learning in other ways and grew up surrounded by books as well as opportunities for hands-on exploration.

I think in some ways successful unschooling actually takes more commitment than more structured homeschooling, because it is really an all-encompassing lifestyle that doesn't have start or end times. Frankly, I have a friend who unschools her 6 kids and her lifestyle looks beyond exhausting to me - she spends most of her life 'facilitating' some interest that one (or more) of the kids have taken to! Her two oldest (15 & 17) are taking college classes now and doing well, so I'd say it has been very successful for them, but it really is something the whole family has made their top priority through the years. It isn't just sitting back and letting the kids raise themselves.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Just google and you shall find.
And if you are willing, you can actually read about the individuals themselves to learn more.

But you have missed the point completely. These famous people are mentioned to show that home educating is doable. People--without citation and contrary to statistics--like to say that homeschooling doesn't work or that it only works for a small portion of the population. It is an erroneous statement made and accepted often--without citation, by those who question the merit of homeschooling.

Yet you wish others to produce a bibliography?

Did they not mention how Abe Lincoln was educated to you in school?

Just for fun: General Patton: http://www.hyperhistory.net/apwh/bios/b4pattong.htm

Another list:http://www.successful-homeschooling.com/famous-homeschoolers.html

My favorite is Tim Tebow.

I don't quite see how homeschooling and being "flexible" with schedules prepares one for the real world, but regardless - the post with the list of homeschooled people and homeschoolers, lifted from who knows where because I don't recall an attribution, was hilarious.

Most of the homeschooled were educated before there were schools quite so available - I don't think it's exactly a defense of homeschooling to cite founding fathers who, at times, didn't have formal schools available. The list of homeschoolers was even better, as it was populated by nuts, most of whom seemed to be affiliated with Scientology.

I also suspect the list is ... untrustworthy as I know L. Ron his amusing self did go to high schools and attended college, and I think was an army brat so I don't know he wouldn't have been in school all along. Some of the Scientology followers also send their kids to school - Scientology schools, but schools nontheless.

Source discernment and citation for fun and profit.

 

[knitster]

Yes, I do measure grammatical aptitude as a way of a parent's ability to educate their child. But then again, I am a child of a teacher .

Someone without a high school diploma or GED has no business homeschooling or unschooling their children. We can agree to disagree.

I am also fully aware of the abilities of the teachers at our school. Guess what? It is a Blue Ribbon School (core knowledge curriculum) and we are very happy with our CHOICE! We are lucky to live in a state with an excellent education system.

I don't recall anyone arguing that someone without their high school diploma should be homeschooling. I, for one, never said that.

I am glad to know that the teachers in your schools never make grammatical errors - especially when typing in non formal settings. I don't have a clue how you know that, but job well done to them - that's phenomenal.

And I don't know why you're yelling about your CHOICE, either. I don't recall anyone saying that you shouldn't choose public school or that you were forced into public school thereby making it a non choice. We're also very happy with our CHOICE to homeschool!

I don't get it and I think it is people like that who give unschooling a bad name. I know a lot of successful unschoolers, but they still have expectations, guide their kids in making good choices (educationally and otherwise), and provide rules/discipline. They don't live by a curriculum or say X needs to be learned by age Y and I know a few of the kids didn't really take to reading until 7 or 8, but they were actively learning in other ways and grew up surrounded by books as well as opportunities for hands-on exploration.

I think in some ways successful unschooling actually takes more commitment than more structured homeschooling, because it is really an all-encompassing lifestyle that doesn't have start or end times. Frankly, I have a friend who unschools her 6 kids and her lifestyle looks beyond exhausting to me - she spends most of her life 'facilitating' some interest that one (or more) of the kids have taken to! Her two oldest (15 & 17) are taking college classes now and doing well, so I'd say it has been very successful for them, but it really is something the whole family has made their top priority through the years. It isn't just sitting back and letting the kids raise themselves.

Real unschooling - like what you're describing is insanely exhausting, takes an entire family's commitment and is generally hugely successful. I could never do it and would never want to do it.

 

[hambirg]

While I agree with you that the OP's friend is not properly educating her children, she probably would view this as comparing apples and oranges. She sees herself as providing numerous and continuous educational opportunities that will eventually lead to a complete education for her children while the children in the countries you mentioned often have no access to education (or limited resources at best). I don't agree with her, but that would probably be her response.

I agree with you. But I think the OP's friend is betting the farm on a social experiment that, if she's being honest, probably hasn't worked out the way she envisioned.

I'll be honest. I could have probably "unschooled" my oldest with great success. She was reading at 3 and has always been a very motivated learner. Not all kids are like that. Some kids will never be interested in things that I would consider necessary to a well rounded education. My DD9 was interested in learning about money, measurement and adding and subtracting. . .but anything beyond that. . .nope. If left to her own demise she would never learn multiplication. I had no interest in learning about indigenous populations, but when it was the only class that fit my schedule and needed requirements in college, I learned a lot.

 

[NEVERENOUGHWDW]

I don't quite see how homeschooling and being "flexible" with schedules prepares one for the real world, but regardless - the post with the list of homeschooled people and homeschoolers, lifted from who knows where because I don't recall an attribution, was hilarious.

Most of the homeschooled were educated before there were schools quite so available - I don't think it's exactly a defense of homeschooling to cite founding fathers who, at times, didn't have formal schools available. The list of homeschoolers was even better, as it was populated by nuts, most of whom seemed to be affiliated with Scientology.

I also suspect the list is ... untrustworthy as I know L. Ron his amusing self did go to high schools and attended college, and I think was an army brat so I don't know he wouldn't have been in school all along. Some of the Scientology followers also send their kids to school - Scientology schools, but schools nontheless.

Source discernment and citation for fun and profit.

I know Laura Ingalls went to school. I watched her walk there almost every day

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Yes, I do measure grammatical aptitude as a way of a parent's ability to educate their child. But then again, I am a child of a teacher .

Someone without a high school diploma or GED has no business homeschooling or unschooling their children. We can agree to disagree.

I am also fully aware of the abilities of the teachers at our school. Guess what? It is a Blue Ribbon School (core knowledge curriculum) and we are very happy with our CHOICE! We are lucky to live in a state with an excellent education system.

Well then we are in agreement with all of the other moms here who have degrees and do have those fine grammar skills.

Blue ribbon is just a buzz phrase to me. It doesn't impress me. I assure you they have teachers who have misspelled a word on occasion. Please ask me how I know this?

 

[IndianSummer]

Just wanted to clarify that unschooling does not mean there is a lack of boundaries and respect within the family. That is a whole different problem that can happen in any family regardless of their educational choices.

The kids may have input on the direction of their learning, but it isn't without parental guidance. If there is mutual respect, the kids will welcome the parents input.

Unschooling does not mean we don't use workbooks, texts, curric. Etc. We do, sometimes when that's what works.

It's unfortunate that some people equate unschooling with abuse, as I've seen posted in this thread, but I don't see how healthy, thriving kids who are learning and motivated could be confused with abused kids.

My kids watch tv, sometimes more than I would like them to, but so do many ps'ed kids. Our family is not without problems. We sometimes get out of balance in our lives. But my kids are brilliant, respectful and happy children, as Im sure all of yours are. And we're working on our weaknesses. Every fault my kids have is not because they are unschooled. They also had faults when they were in the ps system.

I'm not saying that my way is the best way and that everyone should do it, either. If what you're doing/have done is working for your family, good for you, keep it up!

 

[tink_lover]

I don't recall anyone arguing that someone without their high school diploma should be homeschooling. I, for one, never said that.

I am glad to know that the teachers in your schools never make grammatical errors - especially when typing in non formal settings. I don't have a clue how you know that, but job well done to them - that's phenomenal.

And I don't know why you're yelling about your CHOICE, either. I don't recall anyone saying that you shouldn't choose public school or that you were forced into public school thereby making it a non choice. We're also very happy with our CHOICE to homeschool!



Real unschooling - like what you're describing is insanely exhausting, takes an entire family's commitment and is generally hugely successful. I could never do it and would never want to do it.

Wow, you are defensive. Again, I'm going by personal experience with a family member who does not have a high school diploma or a GED but has chosen to unschool.

As far as CHOICE goes, my point was our children go to PS, but use a different curriculum. It is a choice curriculum that is different from what is taught in the PS curriculum. It was bolded for that reason. I have said it multiple times on this thread that I'm not attacking homeschoolers or your reasons for homeschooling. If I didn't have a good PS in my area, I would probably be doing the same thing.

 

[IndianSummer]

Then in regards to the OPs friend, why can't her children read?

Strictly looking at results, they are no better off then those children living in poverty in Afghanistan. Those children don't have the opportunity to learn. It seems that the children the OP is speaking of just don't want to and Mom is not doing enough to facilitate it.

The difference is that her kids have the opportunity to learn and I strongly suspect they will want to as they mature, probably very soon. It's not whether they will learn to read it's a question of when. Especially in today's society with so much done on computers and texting etc. The motivation will come and no one has been breathing down their necks pressuring them on the issue, so they won't be turned off to reading like a lot of frustrated kids get.

 

[knitster]

Wow, you are defensive. Again, I'm going by personal experience with a family member who does not have a high school diploma or a GED but has chosen to unschool.

As far as CHOICE goes, my point was our children go to PS, but use a different curriculum. It is a choice curriculum that is different from what is taught in the PS curriculum. It was bolded for that reason. I have said it multiple times on this thread that I'm not attacking homeschoolers or your reasons for homeschooling. If I didn't have a good PS in my area, I would probably be doing the same thing.

I'm sorry if I come across as defensive, I'm honestly trying not to, but it's difficult to remain neutral on a topic that's so personal and it's especially hard when it's getting heated on both sides.

I apologize for misunderstanding your use of the word CHOICE. I was not aware that it was a different curriculum. I have never heard of it nor have I heard of a Blue Ribbon school. As I've mentioned, I'm completely out of the PS loop.