Any Unschoolers here who ditched that method?

[Buckalew11]

So you don't believe there should be standards for education?

I think the standards for public education are bad, in general. While I chose to be accountable to a group and think something should be done to people who do not teach their kids, I have a hard time agreeing that someone should set standards for everyone to follow. I feel that way because public education is not what it should be because of a lot of interference (state, government and politics)--not because of the teachers.

 

[IndianSummer]

Here's an issue that I have regarding standards in education: why would a governing body hold me, as an homeschooling or unschooling parent to a different standard than public school teachers? Until every kid in every ps class in the province (state, country, whatever) Is performing to these standards, then I have a real problem with anyone telling me that my kids need to be in school or need to achieve a minimum grade on a standardized test. No school can guarantee that they could do a better job educating my kids than I can, because no ps school in my district can say that every student there is getting a passing grade.

I'm not saying this because I have low standards for my kids, just that I think it's ridiculous to imply that unschooled kids are likely worse off than ps kids.

 

[horseshowmom]

What I do have a problem with is forcing my children to take standardized tests that are meaningless and cause undo stress and anxiety for the children who are taking them and they certainly don't provide any reliable gauge as to how well my child is learning at home. For instance, if said test asked my 5th grader about recent American history - he would know very little because we haven't covered that yet. But if it asked him about ancient history or early American history - he'd pass with flying colors because we've covered those subjects in depth. Subjecting homeschoolers to tests that were written to go along side public school curriculum is asinine and a waste of everyone's time.

In our case, when we started homeschooling we used achievement tests through avenues that are available to homeschoolers (Stanford, California, etc.). I did that for several years until I was confident that it was unnecessary.

To the posters who are commenting on knitster's avoidance of state testing, a public school student who moved in from another state would be at the same disadvantage because it would be doubtful that they were on the exact same schedule as the state they were moving into (and they certainly would not have studied that particular state's history).

So you'd rather live where there is no accountability for your children's education??

I wish every single state in the country had a law mandating homeschoolers were required to prove they are actually educating their children.

When states hold their own students accountable for test results (not just using test results as a means of ranking systems), then there might be a reason to discuss some options.

You said yourself your kids are FAR BEHIND public schools in some areas so in actuality your kids probably wouldn't pass the standardized testing would they? Then the consequences for that is you have to put your kids back in school. I can see the need for such desperate measures.

As I said earlier, this would be the same for a student who moved into the state from elsewhere depending upon what was being tested.

For those it is "fear" that their liberty will be compromised with unnecessary oversight. I think people "fear" that should one child fall through the cracks, that is a good enough excuse to tighten up the homeschooling regulations. However, many more students fall through the public school cracks despite being highly regulated.

We voluntarily take standardized tests that my kids do very well on their scores.

Stories such as this aren't enough to sway for stronger litigation because most often they are the anomaly.

As someone who has worked in public school education for 25+ years, I agree with all of these points very strongly. One of the reasons that I chose to homeschool was the very emphasis on the state tests ("teaching to the test"). I wanted my child to have a well rounded education - not one focused on what the test measured (which unfortunately is something most school districts have to do in order to make sure they meet state accountability standards).

As I said earlier, homeschoolers often take annual standardized tests (that they pay for themselves). To each their own, but I personally thought it was a good idea. As I said earlier, I did discontinue it after a few years due to the fact that she was always in the top percentile. If she had been lower, I would probably have continued with it.

 

[SaraJayne]

Didn't say that.

Parents should have the freedom to choose. For example--if they wish to teach history chronologically, teach multiplication all together in one grade and division all together in the next grade, teach basic elementary level chemistry in elementary school and study zoology in 6th grade...

They should be able to do so.

The so called "standards" you are talking about, would force parents to comply with teaching specific subjects and portions of those subjects at a specific time. Many states want homeschooling to be public school at home.

It is like saying you must feed your child green beans and carrots to comply with the state's vegetable requirement.

There is no need to be that specific with homeschool laws and a person such as the OP's friend is not an adequate justification for removing the freedoms other parents enjoy who are actually educating their children successfully.

With no minimum standards to be met, how do you know you're educating your children successfully?

How is "successful" measured to you?

 

[NEVERENOUGHWDW]

LOL thank you, that is exactly what I was saying. Heaven forbid my kids know more about Egypt and Greece than they do about Abe Lincoln!

I have noticed, however, that all of the angry attackers just seem to drop out of the conversation when presented with a logical answer such as the one you just gave, so I don't expect to see any "Oh, that makes sense. Never mind, you're not neglecting your kids. Carry on." posts anytime soon.

Never said you were neglecting your kids.

I feel the "unschoolers" are seriously neglecting their children and should be held accountable.

 

[NEVERENOUGHWDW]

But just as you post illustrated - it's OK to have interruptions in homeschooling - even HUGE interruptions - because you can catch up at your leisure because you have all day every day to do it!

Just like real life. Do it when you want. No schedule, no one to answer to, no testing.

When do you start teaching schedules and deadlines?

 

[knitster]

ETA: I like Florida's OPTION that allows a student to be assessed by a certified teacher to make sure the student is progressing commensurate to his or her abilities. I was able to get honest assessments of my children and helpful hints as well as being educated on when my student might be deficient and when she was really not deficient.

I would love to have the option available to my kids to use the resources (speech and occupational therapy, for example) that are free to PS kids. I pay the taxes that help run these PS that my kids don't use, but my kids can't use the resources that I'm helping fund. I hate that.

With no minimum standards to be met, how do you know you're educating your children successfully?

How is "successful" measured to you?

Again, you're assuming that the only people who can set a standard are the law makers of the state. I have plenty of standards that my kids have to meet - both outlined in the curriculum I chose and outlined in my own goals for my kids. The government doesn't have to hold my hand and tell me what an educated child looks like, I'm capable of figuring that out on my own.

But, for people who can't or don't want to figure that out on their own - we have public schools. So let the state put whatever guidelines that they want on the public schools and let those who want to follow those guidelines attend those schools, but leave the homeschoolers alone.

When states hold their own students accountable for test results (not just using test results as a means of ranking systems), then there might be a reason to discuss some options.

exactly.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

With no minimum standards to be met, how do you know you're educating your children successfully?

How is "successful" measured to you?

With no minimum standards for your children's diet, how do you know they are getting what they need?

I think you are being deliberately obtuse. Learning is learning. I use the resources available to me to make sure my kids are learning. You are trying to paint homeschoolers as a bunch whose children will end up ignorant without the state telling them exactly what to teach.

Successful is that my kids are learning and will be able to go to college in a timely manner. (Actually, if they were in Florida--they success would be them being able to take dual enrollment course work in high school).

And we have utilized tools of our choosing to show that we are succeeding. We didn't need a state to tell us to do this or do that.

And my child couldn't divide in 3rd grade, but could multiple up to 4 and 5 digits. Her math scores took a dip because public schools teach a little bit of multiplication and a little bit of division in each of the grades. But that was okay as the curriculum we utilized for math would cover that in 4th grade. They have their reasons on teaching it all that way. You are free to read all about it at Math-U-See's website.

Your refusal to accept how homeschooling is possible doesn't change the vast quantity of resources to make sure our children are receiving a proper education.

 

[knitster]

Just like real life. Do it when you want. No schedule, no one to answer to, no testing.

When do you start teaching schedules and deadlines?

My kids have schedules and deadline every.single.day. They have to be done with math at X time and have their beds made at Y time and have this material mastered and test taken by Z day, etc. But you know what else they know how to do? They know how to cope with a family emergency. They'll know how to function when someday their spouse gets ill and they have to care for him/her. They'll know how to change a diaper, and make a meal, and delegate things, and prioritize. They'll know how to live life the way it happens - sloppy and unpredictable, not dictated by a bell and a fill in the blank test.

 

[horseshowmom]

Just like real life. Do it when you want. No schedule, no one to answer to, no testing.

When do you start teaching schedules and deadlines?

Oh, come now.

I did love the flexibility of homeschooling. My daughter was able to do her work ahead of time if she was going to be spending the week at her trainer's or going to a big show. She had to schedule herself to get that done. "Do it when you want" doesn't mean some today, maybe some next week, who knows when. The work had to be done. Further, she always finished every page of every book she ever had - something that seldom happens in a traditional classroom.

Flexibility does not equal total abandonment of any sense of scheduling or deadlines.

 

[knitster]

And my child couldn't divide in 3rd grade, but could multiple up to 4 and 5 digits. Her math scores took a dip because public schools teach a little bit of multiplication and a little bit of division in each of the grades. But that was okay as the curriculum we utilized for math would cover that in 4th grade. They have their reasons on teaching it all that way. You are free to read all about it at Math-U-See's website.

AMEN!! Math-U-See has taught me more about math than I ever learned in school!!

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Just like real life. Do it when you want. No schedule, no one to answer to, no testing.

When do you start teaching schedules and deadlines?

If my child does not finish what is assigned that day, then he/she doesn't get to do the things they wish to do for fun.

The amount of assignments may change, of course---but if we have a field trip and we will have less assignments. If they don't finish them, they don't get to go on the field trip.

Lots of ways to teach schedules and deadlines.

ETA: What they learned over the past 2 years if that at some point, when there are delays, we are still accountable to completing the work. Also--and this is very important--in Florida, I had 12 months to complete the work. So the stretching of work took that into consideration. I was able to spread things out to accommodate my pregnancy, illness and life's changes that year. But in the end, we still had a deadline. I met the states requirements, but opted to make sure we met MY requirements and thus made sure we completed our necessary work and did the same for last year.

 

[knitster]

And in addition to knowing all the 'normal' things that 'normal' kids know, my kid is also learning more about how to build and work a computer than most of his public schooled counter parts. At the age of 10, he's on our mega church's tech team running sound and computers because he has the free time to be able to really dig into that stuff with his IT geek dad when he's done with his regular school work (by noon on most days).

 

[horseshowmom]

I would love to have the option available to my kids to use the resources (speech and occupational therapy, for example) that are free to PS kids. I pay the taxes that help run these PS that my kids don't use, but my kids can't use the resources that I'm helping fund. I hate that.

Check with the SpEd Coordinator (or whatever their title is where you are). Federal regulations require that all students receive services (public, private, etc.). You very well may be able to receive those services.

 

[Robinrs]

I think the standards for public education are bad, in general. While I chose to be accountable to a group and think something should be done to people who do not teach their kids, I have a hard time agreeing that someone should set standards for everyone to follow. I feel that way because public education is not what it should be because of a lot of interference (state, government and politics)--not because of the teachers.

Agreed.. and LOVE the picture in your sig, Brenda!! Beautiful!!

 

[hambirg]

I don;t quite understand your point but, what happens in Somalia and Afghanistan are pretty low on my "do I care list".

My point was that many children in those countries receive no education. . .I guess they are "unschooled" and their literacy rates are some of the lowest in the world. Most people that live in Somalia or Afghanistan are uneducated and live in abject poverty. Whether you care or not is up to you.

 

[ugadog99]

I think the standards for public education are bad, in general. While I chose to be accountable to a group and think something should be done to people who do not teach their kids, I have a hard time agreeing that someone should set standards for everyone to follow. I feel that way because public education is not what it should be because of a lot of interference (state, government and politics)--not because of the teachers.

Amen! And for the record, I am a public school teadcher with one child in public school. I wish it could be different for her, but it can't. We have 1.5 years left in public school!

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

And in addition to knowing all the 'normal' things that 'normal' kids know, my kid is also learning more about how to build and work a computer than most of his public schooled counter parts. At the age of 10, he's on our mega church's tech team running sound and computers because he has the free time to be able to really dig into that stuff with his IT geek dad when he's done with his regular school work (by noon on most days).

Well now...

You are just bragging now.


(Just teasing you. )

 

[SaraJayne]

With no minimum standards for your children's diet, how do you know they are getting what they need?

I think you are being deliberately obtuse. Learning is learning. I use the resources available to me to make sure my kids are learning. You are trying to paint homeschoolers as a bunch whose children will end up ignorant without the state telling them exactly what to teach.

Successful is that my kids are learning and will be able to go to college in a timely manner. (Actually, if they were in Florida--they success would be them being able to take dual enrollment course work in high school).

And we have utilized tools of our choosing to show that we are succeeding. We didn't need a state to tell us to do this or do that.

And my child couldn't divide in 3rd grade, but could multiple up to 4 and 5 digits. Her math scores took a dip because public schools teach a little bit of multiplication and a little bit of division in each of the grades. But that was okay as the curriculum we utilized for math would cover that in 4th grade. They have their reasons on teaching it all that way. You are free to read all about it at Math-U-See's website.

Your refusal to accept how homeschooling is possible doesn't change the vast quantity of resources to make sure our children are receiving a proper education.

Oh, I know it's possible. With very few exceptions, I don't believe it's a proper education. That opinion won't change.

Last thing ~ Aisling, I don't know if you're still reading or not, but your friend is harming her children, even though she doesn't believe she is. Her refusal to parent her children will only end up detrimental to them, and cause many, many issues for them in the future, in addition to the ones they already have. I hope if she does read this thread, the possibility of being reported to the authorities will open her eyes.

 

[Aisling]

Agreed.. and LOVE the picture in your sig, Brenda!! Beautiful!!

Jumping back in to agree with this! You look totally different than what I imagined. I thought you were an older lady!


Anyway, I didn't want to further comment since I've sent her this link.

And please, I didn't mean this to be a bash on homeschooling in general. I have a great respect for homeschoolers. All the national spelling bee and geography bee winners seem to be homeschooled.

It's the UNschooling views I'd like my friend to read.

And to K, I sent this to P, too. Love you both. (TTYtomorrow.)