Any Reformed FP- Uber Users Who Have Embraced FP+ ?

[Suvadoo]

Yes, we all do have a way of showing, and vociferously defending, our biases!

You make a decent point that, as the thread you've linked proves, there are a variety of people who are unhappy for a bunch of different reasons. Despite my bias for, I have always acknowledged that FP+ has warts. It's shortcomings definitely include locals and off-site trips planned on short notice. CMs visiting the parks have the same challenge. The system doesn't always work as intended. Disney changes hours and schedules, messing up people's planning. Standby lines for some, even many, attractions are longer. Multiples rides on headliners, especially in parks with tiering, is more difficult than it used to be. Yes, we even ride fewer attractions per trip than we used to because, even though we ride everything, it is harder to get multiple rides per attraction in. But for every wart I can come up with a positive takeaway.

Sometimes I feel that is what is missing when a lot of people express their biases......the consideration of all sides of the issue. I have a bias for, and all things considered I think things are better for us, but I come to that conclusion recognizing that there is both good and bad, and that the good and bad effects different people in different ways.

The whole of my posting on the subject over the last year would clearly say 'the system has its flaws and may not work for everybody, but on the whole, particularly for my family, I think the system is a positive, and a trip to WDW can be as great as it ever was'.

On the flip side, all I kind of take away from some other people's posting is that the system is without a doubt 'absolutely lousy, as you will only be able to enjoys 3 attractions a day while the balance of your time in the parks will be fraught with soul crushing boredom and trip killing disappointment'. That may very well be true for those who can't be flexible or are unwilling to adapt, but isn't there room for even those people to be able to say.......'sure, the system has some things that really do work, even though on the whole it doesn't work for us'?

I completely agreed with your post until you said the bolded. I haven't read any post that mentions "Soul crushing boredom" Please provide your source.
I am saddened with the direction Disney is going with the theme parks. Frankly. I don't know if I will be able to lower my expectations enough to continue visiting WDW, but this is for me and my experience.

But please don't dismiss my opinions as simply being an unwillingness to adapt. This is a condescending statement. It would be comparable to me telling you that the only reason you like FP+ is because you "think Disney can do no wrong".

 

[jade1]

But I'm not going to enter into that transaction and contribute to their side of the equation believing they have MY best interests at heart and without expecting them to contribute to my expectations as well.

I totally get what your saying LT (hope that's OK ) as you have always been clear, and many guests (maybe most even, who knows?) are in agreement.

Maybe attraction expansion will help bring you back, that is if it's enough to start increasing FP+ availability and QTY anyway, maybe not.

But your statement above is exactly how we were starting to feel with FP-, granted we travel peak and have no plans to hit parks until later in the day, but for us it was like they read my request for this over 10 years ago and implemented it.

That's exactly why I have documented in detail what I hoped would happen and indeed did happen-by far our best XMAS week at WDW ever.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Su....Su.....Suvadoo, regarding flexibility and adapting, there is nothing wrong with someone who doesn't want to alter their style, or adapt to a new system. I'm just observing, not judging. I don't know if you fit that bill, because I don't recall enough specifics from your posts, but there is nothing wrong with it. No need for anyone to take offense.

Sure, sometimes I lean toward the Disney apologist side, but at least I think I've said it enough times, there are warts. But I'll own the "apologist" label. Lake, on the other hand, strikes me as somewhat inflexible or unwilling to adapt, based on some recent convos. A primary basis for his FP+ displeasure seems to be a stated desire to sleep in, get to the parks late, not have to wait in long lines, and probably leave the park on the early side. Not really sure if that was the touring style he employed that led to his 'only 3 attractions and long lines for everything else' statement (he bailed on that convo) and, yes, he can get a lot more in than that if he got up early, or if he stayed until close, but he doesn't want to. Nor does he have to. He can sleep in and have short EP lines at Uni. and may choose to let his WDW AP run out and then move on, and that's his choice. He shouldn't fret about wearing the "inflexible" label when it comes to WDW.

What we need to do, though, is look past the labels. I disagree with Lake, but I can see past that disagreement and point out the warts with FP+, and recognize the merit in his ideas regarding how Disney might possibly tweak FP+ to improve it, even though on the whole I like the system.

Try it on your side. Even though you and Lake, et. al. dislike the system overall, is there anything positive you can say about MM+/FP+?

 

[Laketravis]

Since you specifically mentioned me, I'll respond directly.

Lake, on the other hand, strikes me as somewhat inflexible or unwilling to adapt, based on some recent convos.

Oh really? For over 40 years we never spent more than a week at a time at WDW. Our primary decision beginning last year to start spending TWO weeks at WDW per visit was because of what we found to be true with the new system - we accomplished less each day. If that doesn't speak to adaptation, I don't know what does.

A primary basis for his FP+ displeasure seems to be a stated desire to sleep in, get to the parks late, not have to wait in long lines, and probably leave the park on the early side.

Uh, no. I have no problem getting up at 6am every morning and I close the parks down with the best of them. But I do have a problem with being told that's the only way I'm going to avoid long lines, suspect that it's only a matter of time before everyone else figures it out so it's only a temporary solution, and I then begin to question what changes WDW might possibly make in order to eliminate that requirement. Do I have a displeasure for long lines? Of course I do. Who doesn't?

Not really sure if that was the touring style he employed that led to his 'only 3 attractions and long lines for everything else' statement (he bailed on that convo) and, yes, he can get a lot more in than that if he got up early, or if he stayed until close, but he doesn't want to.

Again, a mis-characterization. First of all, I didn't "bail" on any "convo". I simply tired of the same "I'm happy with what I get and the only reason you aren't is because you're not being flexible" missives. And you continue to purport you know what I want or don't want to do even when it's clear you don't understand my preferences at all. Nor was my comment a result of any particular touring style; it was based on an observation supported by several others who have posted trip reports. And that is, once you've used your 3 FP's all of the standby lines are longer than they used to be. You seem more intent on criticizing the semantic construct of my comment as opposed to the accuracy of it.

Even though you and Lake, et. al. dislike the system overall, is there anything positive you can say about MM+/FP+?

I'm not blind to positives, I've identified several since the dawn of testing. But you seem to be hung up on this notion that I "dislike the system overall" - it's not wholly about FP/MDE, it's the direction that Disney is taking with WDW. If you need some examples of what that means, consider the DVC crowd - probably the most genuinely loyal bunch of WDW customers you'll ever find - and check out the discussion they are currently having on the DVC boards about what WDW is doing with the Poly Bungalows and the point system.

I won't patronize you, and I haven't criticized you for liking any aspect of WDW that you like. But you consistently draw mistaken conclusions about my intentions or expectations and only use them to criticize my comments.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Since you specifically mentioned me, I'll respond directly. Oh really? For over 40 years we never spent more than a week at a time at WDW. Our primary decision last year and this year to start spending TWO weeks at WDW per visit was because of what we found to be true with the new system - we accomplished less each day. If that doesn't speak to adaptation, I don't know what does. Uh, no. I have no problem getting up at 6am every morning and I can close the parks down with the best of them. But I do have a problem with being told that's the only way I'm going to avoid long lines and I then begin to question what changes WDW might possibly make in order to eliminate that requirement. Do I have a displeasure for long lines? Of course I do. Who doesn't? Again, a mis-characterization. First of all, I didn't "bail" on any "convo". I simply tired of the same "I'm happy with what I get and the only reason you aren't is because you're not being flexible" missives. And you continue to purport you know what I want or don't want to do even when it's clear you don't understand my preferences at all. I won't patronize you - I haven't criticized you for liking any aspect of WDW that you like. But you consistently draw mistaken conclusions about my intentions or expectations and only use them to criticize my comments.

The only way I can get a clear picture of your preferences is if you tell me what they are. Which you kind of just did. I did kind of feel you bailed on that last conversation because as soon as I asked you to elaborate on your touring style (that resulted in 3 and done) you clammed up, at least in that thread.

I get it, you are a straw and camel guy. You had to adapt to legacy FP. Maybe that was a problem, maybe it wasn't. You were flexible and altered your vacations. It may kind have worked for you. Along comes FP+, requiring a different kind of adaptation (say, getting out early, on top of extending your vacation), and that was too much. You don't want to do that, you don't want to employ that as a flexible strategy. As you've stated before, too many changes required on your part to keep the value quotient high enough.

I get that, appreciate that, and I'm glad I have a better idea of where you are coming from. I knew I could pull that out of you!

Still doesn't change the fact that those willing to adapt and get to parks for rope drop can get a ton done per day under FP+ (how do I do stick out you tongue smilie on iPhone?), but that's not what you want for your vacation, and that is ok.

 

[Laketravis]

I did kind of feel you bailed on that last conversation because as soon as I asked you to elaborate on your touring style (that resulted in 3 and done) you clammed up, at least in that thread.

A touring style doesn't create the condition. That is why the discussion became the type I was referring to - you weren't willing to consider that perhaps the condition didn't need to exist at all, therefore nullifying any need for a particular touring style.

Still doesn't change the fact that those willing to adapt and get to parks for rope drop can get a ton done per day under FP+ (how do I do stick out you tongue smilie on iPhone?), but that's not what you want for your vacation, and that is ok.

I thought you were beginning to understand until that last part. Let me ask you a question - is there something that Disney or WDW would do that you would simply refuse to "adapt" to and instead perhaps question why it couldn't be done differently, and offer substantive suggestions as to how?

Seriously? Nothing comes to mind? Would you simply accept whatever is offered in return for your dollars and keep figuring out how to "adapt" ??

If so, please PM me - I've got some wonderful business opportunities I want to share with you!

 

[DisneyKidds]

A touring style doesn't create the condition. That is why the discussion became the type I was referring to - you weren't willing to consider that perhaps the condition didn't need to exist at all, therefore nullifying any need for a particular touring style.

I think we can chalk this one up to trying to discuss too many things in one thread, which often happens.

I've been focused on how well FP+ as a system works or doesn't work, and what can or cannot be accomplished using FP+, in these last few threads whereas you seem to want to take the discussion down the road of 'why do we have to have FP+ all all because it just doesn't work'. I don't need to consider that the condition didn't need to exist because it's a moot point. It does exist. We just have to decide what, if anything, we are going to do about it.

Honestly, the Walt Disney Company and WDW have strayed so far from Walt's ideals and what I found Disney to be decades ago that I no longer get caught up in theoretical what is/should it be arguments. There is so much that isn't what I think it should be, but it is what it is. I'll stop accepting that the minute the enjoyment and value of my WDW vacations have been significantly eroded. While WDW is no where near the value it was 25 years ago, we still find it to hold significant value for our vacation time/dollar. FP+ hasn't changed that. Given that, it's hard to answer your question as to what would be my straw.

Perhaps one reason I'm not that up in arms about FP+ is because other than making a few more reservations and 'locking ourselves in' to a more formalized schedule, we really haven't had to adapt much to FP+. The touring style we have always employed (rope drop, midday break, hop to a different park in the evening) has actually been enhanced by FP+. That strategy has always been highly effective, and continues to be.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Try it on your side. Even though you and Lake, et. al. dislike the system overall, is there anything positive you can say about MM+/FP+?

I have repeatedly stated the positives I see in FP+, and yet it doesn't stop some from addressing me similarly - comments about being unwilling to adapt or just hating change, etc.

I loved Magic Bands themselves. No issue with them whatsoever. FP+ we found to be great for arrival day and any day we were arriving around noon (since DH ran the 1/2 marathon until 1:30am, and we were in Epcot til 4am, making RD wasn't going to happen).

We didn't enjoy FP+ on days we were in the parks early. We did not find there to be flexibility - we tried to change ride times or selections in the parks (of our original 3) and did not have much luck at all. We had difficulties finding the kiosk locations in parks other than MK (knew where the one in MK b/w Adventureland and Frontierland was from the Oct 2013 visit). We had to get on Josh's EasyWDW site to find locations, as they weren't printed on the park maps. They weren't well marked at all (sandwich boards at ground level can be hard to see depending on crowds).

So yes, MM+/FP+ have their good points. But their good points don't outweigh their bad points for us. For us they pretty much even out and leave us at "meh" - I don't love it, but I don't hate it. But that doesn't stop the running commentary of just hating change or being inflexible and unwilling to adapt (none of which are true for us).

I know people love FP+, and I'm happy for them. I understand it works for them, and I don't begrudge them that. More often than not, I do not feel that same understanding in return.

(disclaimer: I am only speaking for myself, not groups of people, not about any certain posters. Just my overall perception).

 

[Laketravis]

Honestly, the Walt Disney Company and WDW have strayed so far from Walt's ideals and what I found Disney to be decades ago that I no longer get caught up in theoretical what is/should it be arguments. There is so much that isn't what I think it should be, but it is what it is. I'll stop accepting that the minute the enjoyment and value of my WDW vacations have been significantly eroded. While WDW is no where near the value it was 25 years ago, we still find it to hold significant value for our vacation time/dollar.

And on that we most certainly agree.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Appreciate the input Ariel. I can fully accept that while the current structure works for us it may not work for everyone. Nobody is wrong for feeling that it doesn't work for them.

 

[Laketravis]

I have repeatedly stated the positives I see in FP+, and yet it doesn't stop some from addressing me similarly - comments about being unwilling to adapt or just hating change, etc..

I kept asking DW "why can't they do it like WDW and put it all on one card or wristband?" when we were at USO because we had individual cards for literally everything - one card for the room, one paper card for our AP, one paper card for our EP, one paper card for CityWalk. It was ridiculous. Perhaps it's because they already make a respectable margin on lanyards and putting everything on one media would turn a profit into a cost.

 

[Suvadoo]

Su....Su.....Suvadoo, regarding flexibility and adapting, there is nothing wrong with someone who doesn't want to alter their style, or adapt to a new system. I'm just observing, not judging. I don't know if you fit that bill, because I don't recall enough specifics from your posts, but there is nothing wrong with it. No need for anyone to take offense.

Sure, sometimes I lean toward the Disney apologist side, but at least I think I've said it enough times, there are warts. But I'll own the "apologist" label. Lake, on the other hand, strikes me as somewhat inflexible or unwilling to adapt, based on some recent convos. A primary basis for his FP+ displeasure seems to be a stated desire to sleep in, get to the parks late, not have to wait in long lines, and probably leave the park on the early side. Not really sure if that was the touring style he employed that led to his 'only 3 attractions and long lines for everything else' statement (he bailed on that convo) and, yes, he can get a lot more in than that if he got up early, or if he stayed until close, but he doesn't want to. Nor does he have to. He can sleep in and have short EP lines at Uni. and may choose to let his WDW AP run out and then move on, and that's his choice. He shouldn't fret about wearing the "inflexible" label when it comes to WDW.

What we need to do, though, is look past the labels. I disagree with Lake, but I can see past that disagreement and point out the warts with FP+, and recognize the merit in his ideas regarding how Disney might possibly tweak FP+ to improve it, even though on the whole I like the system.

Try it on your side. Even though you and Lake, et. al. dislike the system overall, is there anything positive you can say about MM+/FP+?

Sorry, just back for a minute. I notice how you've completely ignored what I said in my last post. So what, there is no source for the "Soul Crushing Boredom" remark you attributed to a FP+ detractor? I'm so surprised!

I have never said one negative thing about the magic bands. I have problems with Disney's website, but that's an ongoing issue that started long before MDE. I have no problems with the magic bands being used to access rooms, park admission, and for charging. When I was there last April, I got a lot of blue mickeys at admission, but I think that glitch is resolving.
My only problem is with FP+. You asked what I like about it and I guess it would be the ability to reserve FP+'s on arrival day. I can see that would be a big benefit. For me personally, it's no benefit since I arrive the first day of vacation in the evening and do not visit the parks.

 

[SmithSmith]

As do I. I'm not the sort of person who can spend thousands of dollars a year on something and be content with every single aspect of it simply because that's the way it is.

And not directed at your comments - but I don't think I whine about how something sucks and I'm not ever going back and if you don't agree you suck too. I hope my years of posts will support that I also suggest ways I think the weaknesses could be improved.

And that's how civil, amicable discussions can ensue. I try not to take any of the rebuttals and sarcasm personally because I tend to respond to that in an equal manner, but I have to admit that I am puzzled by some who are compelled to join those discussions and contribute nothing but an absolute refusal to consider that WDW could make a change or two that would benefit a lot of people and improve the overall experience and value received. Not once have I seen a thought-out potentially advantageous change they think WDW could make come from that camp. Instead, they begin their rationalization with an example or two of how their experience was different and based on that continually and exclusively promote the concept that everyone must adapt and change to the way it is, otherwise it's your fault because your touring method is inefficient or you should get up earlier or stay in the parks longer or lower your expectations or simply be content with what you get.

I'm also not familiar with any company that was successful by ignoring negative feedback. In fact, most changes second only to those that are driven by profit/loss factors are made based on constructive feedback by customers, whether that be in the form of reduced demand or complaints.

Here's my perspective as a member of that "camp".

1. Most of the alleged FP+ flaws don't affect me. I have no problem with the allotment, tiering, kiosks, 60 days, or planning. The one thing that I wish I could change is adding FP+ to Sum of all thrills, which I've said before.

2. I'm not in the habit of offering "change" for a system that I find sound.

3. If I found it unacceptable, I wouldn't bother airing my "change" on a message board because that wouldn't help anyone planning a Disney Vacation. However, I would share my fix with Disney because that's the logical thing to do.

4. Since I like FP+, the only constructive thing I can do is share my personal experience in an effort to help others have a pleasant experience like I've had.

 

[Angel Ariel]

1. Most of the alleged FP+ flaws don't affect me. I have no problem with the allotment, tiering, kiosks, 60 days, or planning. The one thing that I wish I could change is adding FP+ to Sum of all thrills, which I've said before.

I can absolutely appreciate that you find the system sound, and have enjoyed it for yourself. I don't question your experience at all.

My main issue in this comes with the bolded word. Using words like "alleged" though, comes across as saying that since you didn't experience the issues that others have, that they aren't really issues at all - that others have to prove their experience somehow. You may not intend it that way, I honestly don't know, but the word itself means doubtful/suspect/supposed - so it definitely comes across that way.

Those are the kind of things that I think help derail threads. If, as a member of the FP-non lovers club (since I don't hate it either), I can accept - without questioning - that others have fantastic experiences with FP+, then why can't the other camp also accept - without questioning - that there are those who have less than fantastic experiences?

3. If I found it unacceptable, I wouldn't bother airing my "change" on a message board because that wouldn't help anyone planning a Disney Vacation. However, I would share my fix with Disney because that's the logical thing to do.

As to this, I would not make the assumption that people discussing a dislike for FP+ here have not shared their feelings with Disney directly. Many have, as I'm sure many who love it have as well.

 

[SmithSmith]

I can absolutely appreciate that you find the system sound, and have enjoyed it for yourself. I don't question your experience at all.

My main issue in this comes with the bolded word. Using words like "alleged" though, comes across as saying that since you didn't experience the issues that others have, that they aren't really issues at all - that others have to prove their experience somehow. You may not intend it that way, I honestly don't know, but the word itself means doubtful/suspect/supposed - so it definitely comes across that way.

Those are the kind of things that I think help derail threads. If, as a member of the FP-non lovers club (since I don't hate it either), I can accept - without questioning - that others have fantastic experiences with FP+, then why can't the other camp also accept - without questioning - that there are those who have less than fantastic experiences?



As to this, I would not make the assumption that people discussing a dislike for FP+ here have not shared their feelings with Disney directly. Many have, as I'm sure many who love it have as well.

First, I do not accept things without question. That is not in my nature. I'm a skeptic at heart.

Second, alleged also means "declared but unproven". I chose that word because in the matter of allotment and tiering, they're not FP+ flaws but capacity flaws. Therefore, not proven to be FP+ issues.

Third, you inferred that I assumed people have not been sharing their FP grievances with Disney, however, I've never made any such assumption.

You said:
"as a member of the FP-non lovers club (since I don't hate it either), I can accept - without questioning - that others have fantastic experiences with FP+, then why can't the other camp also accept - without questioning - that there are those who have less than fantastic experiences?"

Here's my question to you Angel Ariel, if you consider yourself "FP-non lovers club" (aka Switzerland), then why do you reference the FP+ Proponents as "the other camp"? Just curious...

 

[Laketravis]

1. Most of the alleged FP+ flaws don't affect me. I have no problem with the allotment, tiering, kiosks, 60 days, or planning. The one thing that I wish I could change is adding FP+ to Sum of all thrills, which I've said before.

So it's okay to propose and discuss possible improvements, as long as it's just one?

3. If I found it unacceptable, I wouldn't bother airing my "change" on a message board because that wouldn't help anyone planning a Disney Vacation.
4. Since I like FP+, the only constructive thing I can do is share my personal experience in an effort to help others have a pleasant experience like I've had.

Yet you'll bother to post a dissenting opinion as to alcohol in the parks and the negative effect it had on YOUR vacation on the same message board because that's constructive and helps someone plan a Disney Vacation?

I definitely do not want to see more alcohol in the parks. Probably why Magic Kingdom is my favorite park and EPCOT my least. Had the misfortune of planning my last trip during F&W and it was awful. Drunks all around. Smokers always roaming and never in their designated spots. It ruined World Showcase for me.

Perhaps now you can understand the similarities between you observing or experiencing something you interpret as a negative and expressing an opinion about it on a message board, and someone else observing or experiencing something they interpret as a negative and expressing an opinion about it on the same message board.

 

[erc]

Sure seems like a lot of dead horse beating going on so let me join in... I think bottom line for me is whatever system Disney comes up with, I'll research it, learn as much as I can about it, and figure out how to use it to my advantage. I would be curious to see what a day at MK would be like with no FastPass system at all. I get the feeling there would be huge lines for the headline attractions all day. They would just have to build gift shops and food booths along the waiting queues because that is where people would be most of the day. 2 hours for 7DMT, 1.5 hours for BTMR 1.5 hours for Splash, 1.5 hours for Space, and 3 hours for A&E. Then done.

Want to go back to original FP? Fine I'll dig out my old "Unofficial Guide" and prepare a plan. Stick with FP+, okay, I'm good to go. Just tell me what the system is, and I'll figure out how to game it and have a good time in either case.

 

[wisblue]

Our primary decision beginning last year to start spending TWO weeks at WDW per visit was because of what we found to be true with the new system - we accomplished less each day.

Just out of curiosity, when did you have your first experience with FP+ during which you found that it prevented you from accomplishing as much each day as you were used to? Until December of 2013 (when the FP machines were removed from DAK) the paper FP system was still in place.

How did the system at the time of the trip at which you made that discovery compare to the system in place today?

 

[Angel Ariel]

First, I do not accept things without question. That is not in my nature. I'm a skeptic at heart.

I'm a skeptic as well, but I have no reason to question anyone's experiences here. Short of photo documenting everything you do, there is no way to "prove" ones experience. I don't ask those who love FP+ to prove why they love it- they love it, that's their opinion, and whether I agree with it or my experience matches it is irrelevant. It doesn't change their experience.

Second, alleged also means "declared but unproven". I chose that word because in the matter of allotment and tiering, they're not FP+ flaws but capacity flaws. Therefore, not proven to be FP+ issues.

No one has debated that allotment and tiering aren't in place because of capacity issues. I think pretty much everyone on this board recognizes that those things exist specifically because of capacity issues. The contention, as I've generally understood it in these discussions, has not been whether or not they are capacity issues, but that FP+ has *highlighted* the capacity issues - put them into a place where they are more directly affecting the guest experience- as opposed to masking them.

For some people, their guest experience is improved by this. For others, it is diminished. For others it's unaffected completely. What group one falls in is entirely personal and can't really be proven to someone else. The aspects I dislike about FP+ are aspects that someone else loves - neither is right or wrong, they just are.

Third, you inferred that I assumed people have not been sharing their FP grievances with Disney, however, I've never made any such assumption.

You are right, I do apologize for that.

You said:
"as a member of the FP-non lovers club (since I don't hate it either), I can accept - without questioning - that others have fantastic experiences with FP+, then why can't the other camp also accept - without questioning - that there are those who have less than fantastic experiences?"

Here's my question to you Angel Ariel, if you consider yourself "FP-non lovers club" (aka Switzerland), then why do you reference the FP+ Proponents as "the other camp"? Just curious...

TBH, it was really late and I wasn't really thinking about Switzerland as an option. So many of the debates here come down to you if you don't entirely love FP+ then you must hate it/hate change/etc. I didn't want to use the word hate, because I don't totally hate it, but I don't love it either...so born was the FP+ non-lover I just didn't process it as being neutral

 

[Laketravis]

Just out of curiosity, when did you have your first experience with FP+ during which you found that it prevented you from accomplishing as much each day...

I was among one of the first beta groups invited to participate in testing FP+ in the fall of 2011 and then again as part of an enhanced test that included additional resources like parades and fireworks in November of 2012.

....as you were used to?

I feel like that's a baited question. It wasn't in relation to what could have been previously accomplished at all, it was in relation to what was accomplished versus time in the park versus cost versus expectations versus etc. It was clear from the outset that the motivation was to persuade guests to spend more days on site. I found the strategy to be quite effective as we felt forced to do just that.