Any Reformed FP- Uber Users Who Have Embraced FP+ ?

[Angel Ariel]

The trouble with this thread is that the critics of FP+ have let us all know their dislike many pages ago some even going as far as to suggest that they may have to rethink their future WDW vacations and whether to spend their money elsewhere. And yet, here we still are.

Post 216, Suvadoo:

The post I responded to said "critics of FP+" - not Suvadoo. As someone who has criticisms of FP+, I responded. .

If it was in response to one poster's comments, then perhaps the response would be better directed to that one poster rather than all posters who may have criticisms of FP+.

 

[SmithSmith]

I'm a skeptic as well, but I have no reason to question anyone's experiences here. Short of photo documenting everything you do, there is no way to "prove" ones experience. I don't ask those who love FP+ to prove why they love it- they love it, that's their opinion, and whether I agree with it or my experience matches it is irrelevant. It doesn't change their experience.



No one has debated that allotment and tiering aren't in place because of capacity issues. I think pretty much everyone on this board recognizes that those things exist specifically because of capacity issues. The contention, as I've generally understood it in these discussions, has not been whether or not they are capacity issues, but that FP+ has *highlighted* the capacity issues - put them into a place where they are more directly affecting the guest experience- as opposed to masking them.

For some people, their guest experience is improved by this. For others, it is diminished. For others it's unaffected completely. What group one falls in is entirely personal and can't really be proven to someone else. The aspects I dislike about FP+ are aspects that someone else loves - neither is right or wrong, they just are.



You are right, I do apologize for that.



TBH, it was really late and I wasn't really thinking about Switzerland as an option. So many of the debates here come down to you if you don't entirely love FP+ then you must hate it/hate change/etc. I didn't want to use the word hate, because I don't totally hate it, but I don't love it either...so born was the FP+ non-lover I just didn't process it as being neutral

I'm not asking anyone to prove anything.

 

[Angel Ariel]

No it doesn't. Which is why I never did it.

My quote that she assumed meant her:



I would not even bother reading this thread anymore except I keep seeing it pop up to the top. Who doesn't love a good dead horse beating party?

I didn't actually assume you meant me, as I know I haven't said anything of the kind.

I didn't respond because I was taking it personally, but to point out that generalizations aren't constructive to the conversation.

 

[erc]

I didn't respond because I was taking it personally, but to point out that generalizations aren't constructive to the conversation.

Not that this is adding to the discussion, but it wasn't a generalization. It was a real thing that I remembered reading in this thread. And using the search tool, I found it.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I'm not asking anyone to prove anything.

When you categorize the issues people have with FP+ as "alleged" (declared, without proof) - that word choice alone implies further proof is needed.

These aspects of FP+ may not be flaws for *you* but that doesn't mean that someone else doesn't consider them flaws based on their experience. I would not call your experience an "alleged improved/successful" experience - I take you at your word that it was successful and FP+ improved it. Similarly when someone says that tiers are, for them, a flaw of FP+, I would not call that an "alleged flaw" either.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Not that this is adding to the discussion, but it wasn't a generalization. It was a real thing that I remembered reading in this thread. And using the search tool, I found it.

It was a real thing, yes - and you expanded it from one person to "some" people - that is where the generalization occurs. Saying something is a generalization isn't saying you made it up or it wasn't said by anyone.

Anyway, that's besides the point. I just wanted to clarify that I wasn't taking your post personally, as you seemed to think I did, just that I had an issue with the wording. You didn't mean it as a generalization, so this dead horse can stop being beaten

 

[SmithSmith]

When you categorize the issues people have with FP+ as "alleged" (declared, without proof) - that word choice alone implies further proof is needed.

These aspects of FP+ may not be flaws for *you* but that doesn't mean that someone else doesn't consider them flaws based on their experience. I would not call your experience an "alleged improved/successful" experience - I take you at your word that it was successful and FP+ improved it. Similarly when someone says that tiers are, for them, a flaw of FP+, I would not call that an "alleged flaw" either.

Switzerland, if you really have a problem with my word choice then I'll change it to anything you deem appropriate. What do you suggest?

 

[Shaden]

2. I'm not in the habit of offering "change" for a system that I find sound.

3. If I found it unacceptable, I wouldn't bother airing my "change" on a message board because that wouldn't help anyone planning a Disney Vacation. However, I would share my fix with Disney because that's the logical thing to do.

I agree. I definitely do not want to see more alcohol in the parks. Probably why Magic Kingdom is my favorite park and EPCOT my least. Had the misfortune of planning my last trip during F&W and it was awful. Drunks all around. Smokers always roaming and never in their designated spots. It ruined World Showcase for me.

Yet you'll bother to post a dissenting opinion as to alcohol in the parks and the negative effect it had on YOUR vacation on the same message board because that's constructive and helps someone plan a Disney Vacation ?

Perhaps now you can understand the similarities between you observing or experiencing something you interpret as a negative and expressing an opinion about it on a message board, and someone else observing or experiencing something they interpret as a negative and expressing an opinion about it on the same message board.

Lake, I was just giving you my reasons why I have not offered up any possible solutions, nothing more.

Lol, you got pretty owned Smith, really.

I mean, complaining about people complaining because it serves no purpose and you can't understand it, when you yourself complain about things. Classic.

 

[SmithSmith]

Lol, you got pretty owned Smith, really.

I mean, complaining about people complaining because it serves no purpose and you can't understand it, when you yourself complain about things. Classic.

These are reasons I cited for not offering up suggestions to "change" FP+:

2. I'm not in the habit of offering "change" for a system that I find sound.

3. If I found it unacceptable, I wouldn't bother airing my "change" on a message board because that wouldn't help anyone planning a Disney Vacation. However, I would share my fix with Disney because that's the logical thing to do.

Where in the above text am I complaing about people complaing?

 

[Shaden]

These are reasons I cited for not offering up suggestions to "change" FP+:

2. I'm not in the habit of offering "change" for a system that I find sound.

3. If I found it unacceptable, I wouldn't bother airing my "change" on a message board because that wouldn't help anyone planning a Disney Vacation. However, I would share my fix with Disney because that's the logical thing to do.

Where in the above text am I complaing about people complaing?

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[DisneyKidds]

I suppose that was me and poor choice of words again; maybe this is a better way to explain it:

We saw that "based on what could be accomplished each day" we would need to spend more days at WDW in order to reduce the overall cost per day and bring the value equation more in line with what we felt we were being provided with.

Lake, to keep things moving in a positive direction I just want to make sure I understand what you are saying here. This statement relates to your trips in 2011 and 2012, when you utilized FP+ as part of testing, and how it impacted your decision (to spend 2 weeks) in 2013, correct?

Somehow I feel it's important to understand your use of quotes and more precise wording here. You said....We saw that "based on what could be accomplished each day", as opposed to saying .....We saw, based on what we accomplished.

I think you are saying that it may not be that you actually accomplished LESS in 2011 and 2012 when utilizing FP+ during the testing phase, but based on what you felt might be able to be accomplished on future trips when FP+ is fully rolled out, you decided to change your vacation habits and extend to 2 weeks in 2013.

Is that fair to say/accurate?

 

[SmithSmith]

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Then read number 3 again. It says that I would share my FIX with Disney and not a message board.

 

[Shaden]

Then read number 3 again. It says that I would share my FIX with Disney and not a message board.

Such a joke.

It says you "wouldn't bother" sharing your "fix" on a message board.

A Fix, a suggestion. Yet you were perfectly willing to share your suggestion that Disney not add any more alcohol to the parks.

Its the same thing, different pile, different construction of the sentence, both making suggestions on how Disney should manage its parks on a message board.

You are ok with doing it yourself but if someone else does it ... Well, you just wouldn't BOTHER, because that's not logical, blah blah blah.

Your hypocrisy is called out, you back pedal, try to argue semantics, the usual stuff.

It was a good call out, we are all guilty of it at points, admit it, move on

 

[Laketravis]

"Your Honor, upon examination of the tactics used, the questions asked, and the continued attempts to squelch defendant's position by the prosecution, I believe we can let the record stand that those who dare to criticize the systems, process, or intent of the WDW Corporation (commonly referred to as "Haters" by the prosecution) do not subject those who express positive views to the same level of interrogation and criticism they themselves are subjected to. In addition, your Honor, I hope the court recognizes that comments made by the defendants which may be deemed potentially negative of the WDW Corporation by the prosecution were not intended by the defendant to set the PR team into motion.

The defense rests."

 

[jtowntoflorida]

FWIW, my experience mirrors Lake's.

Our first trip was October 2011 and we felt like masters of the FP system. Loved it! But that's when they still allowed people to come back after the FP window had closed. That system, with those rules, was awesome.

Our second trip was October 2012. Still with legacy FP, but they were now enforcing the windows. Honestly, that wasn't a big change for us, because we really did stick with the windows for the most part even when we didn't have to.

Third trip...short SWW trip with legacy FP, first weekend of June 2013. I can go back and find my post, but by using the FP system at an optimal level, I know we did something like 15 attractions in the morning alone at the MK one day.

Fourth trip...October 2013. FP+ was in the early stages of testing and the paper system was still available. We used much, much more paper than the FP+s because the FP+ system was so crappy. The MDE app kept crashing (I remember uninstalling and reinstalling it every day). While I don't feel like MK touring was affected that much, I did feel like we accomplished less in the other parks, particularly Epcot. In 2011, we had 4 rides on Soarin'. In 2012, that came down to 3. But in 2013, we got ONE, and that was with our FP+. There was a big glitch in the paper FP system (some might remember this) and it caused all the paper FP+s to be distributed within an hour of park opening. On past trips, paper FPs were available well into the afternoon hours. The same thing was happening with TSM, but we were to the park early on our DHS day, so I was able to pull paper to supplement our FP+, so we still got three rides on TSM.

Next trip was a 3 day trip in August 2014...this was our first full FP+ trip. I felt like I spent far, far more time planning ahead of time, learning about the new system, figuring out how to optimize it, etc. Again, I can go back and look at my schedules and compare them to the past, but I am certain that on our MK day (comparing apples to apples here) we accomplished far, far less than we did in June 2013 because we were using SB more and only used our 3 prebooked FP+s, plus two more (I believe...I'd have to check). In August, I was relatively satisfied with the system, but the parks were also dead, especially the MK.

Our last trip was in December 2014, the week before Christmas (13-20th). FP+ seemed like it took even more pre-planning than in August. In August, at least I didn't have any problems securing the FP+s for the times I wanted, but it was a different story for December. And then I felt like I had to keep an eye on the boards because Disney started dumping more FP+s into the system. In the end, after hours of changing things around, I was happy with our pre-booked FP+ selections, but it was frustrating to get to Disney and have no opportunity to change anything, and only have total crap selections for the 4th FP+. We accomplished far, far less in December than on any prior trip, especially via FP (in other words, our FP+ was far lower than our FP usage was in "the old days.). Epcot--we used our three FP+s and that was it. One ride on Soarin', no rides on Test Track. DHS--again, three FP+s and nothing else. We still got 3 rides on TSM one day, but we did SB for two of those rides. MK...once the park got crowded after 10:30 or so, we accomplished very few rides. The first 2 1/2 hours (park opened at 8:00 a.m.) were golden for SB. We'd do SB for the first couple of hours, then switch over to FP+, and then...just hang out (thank goodness for SOMK). The SB lines were too long and there were no FP+s available. On December 14th I was able to finagle a FP+ for POTC as our 4th selection, but that was back at the resort after playing around with MDE and finally getting overlapping spots for the 4 of us. One other day that week I was able to finagle a Mickey FP+ as our 4th (again, with overlapping times) and we waited 25 minutes to meet him, which was aggravating (posted SB wait was 35 minutes). Other than that, it was SB because there were no FP+s available for later in the day.

So we've definitely experienced a significant decrease in the number of attractions we do because of the FP+ limitations.

 

[Love Tink]

Al the back and forth and back and forth and back and forth about FP+ (which I don't mind - when it gets repetitive or boring I just stop reading) seems to seriously boil down to this:

If you feel that FP+ has hurt how you tour, and taken something away from your experience, you don't like it (and you get upset that others won't acknowledge that you feel you've truly lost something).

If you feel that FP+ has either helped the way you tour or hasn't really changed anything, you like it (and you don't really understand all the griping and complaining, which simply doesn't resonate with you).

I may be biased, because I don't like FP+, but it seems to me that those who don't like FP+ are nevertheless willing to admit that it works for some people, and that it has some positives, and that some people like it.

But those who like FP+ seem generally unable to admit that there are valid reasons for people not to like it. They focus on the fact that it works for them, or that it's "spreading the wealth" for more guests or that "Disney is not going to change." They (generally) refuse to acknowledge that they are in a conversation with an actual person who is saying, "This system has taken something I loved from me."

All the parsing of words and meanings is pretty silly when one side won't admit that the emotions and concerns (or "alleged" emotions and concerns) of the other side have any validity.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Switzerland, if you really have a problem with my word choice then I'll change it to anything you deem appropriate. What do you suggest?

I honestly just don't understand the need to put any qualifier like alleged in at all. Why not just accept that others feel differently?

You can use whatever word you want, I'm just curious as to why you're using that word if you are saying you're not asking for proof/implying a lack of proof.

 

[wisblue]

I believe we can let the record stand that those who dare to criticize the systems, process, or intent of the WDW Corporation (commonly referred to as "Haters" by the prosecution) do not subject those who express positive views to the same level of interrogation and criticism they themselves are subjected to.

Pot, meet kettle.

If you think that it is only one "camp" (to use your term) that treats others in the opposite "camp" differently, you need a serious reality check.

All it takes is for someone to say that they were happy with the FPs they received to trigger "interrogation" about how much time and planning it took to get those FP's. Remember the thread a few days ago about the "FP+ Success Story"?

 

[SmithSmith]

Such a joke.

It says you "wouldn't bother" sharing your "fix" on a message board.

A Fix, a suggestion. Yet you were perfectly willing to share your suggestion that Disney not add any more alcohol to the parks.

Its the same thing, different pile, different construction of the sentence, both making suggestions on how Disney should manage its parks on a message board.

You are ok with doing it yourself but if someone else does it ... Well, you just wouldn't BOTHER, because that's not logical, blah blah blah.

Your hypocrisy is called out, you back pedal, try to argue semantics, the usual stuff.

It was a good call out, we are all guilty of it at points, admit it, move on

No, it's not the same thing. My OPINION is that I don't want to see more alcohol in the parks, and I followed it with reasons why I disliked EPCOT during F&W, which could prove useful to someone who may like/dislike the atmosphere I described.

On the other hand, Lake has suggested that if Disney lengthened FP+ wait times it could potentially even out waits throughout the park and may even allow Disney to allot more than 3 FP+. I do not understand how this speculation could be helpful to someone planning their Disney vacation. I don't mind if he speculates, I was just giving him my reasons why I havent offered up suggestions.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Al the back and forth and back and forth and back and forth about FP+ (which I don't mind - when it gets repetitive or boring I just stop reading) seems to seriously boil down to this:

If you feel that FP+ has hurt how you tour, and taken something away from your experience, you don't like it (and you get upset that others won't acknowledge that you feel you've truly lost something).

If you feel that FP+ has either helped the way you tour or hasn't really changed anything, you like it (and you don't really understand all the griping and complaining, which simply doesn't resonate with you).

I may be biased, because I don't like FP+, but it seems to me that those who don't like FP+ are nevertheless willing to admit that it works for some people, and that it has some positives, and that some people like it.

But those who like FP+ seem generally unable to admit that there are valid reasons for people not to like it. They focus on the fact that it works for them, or that it's "spreading the wealth" for more guests or that "Disney is not going to change." They (generally) refuse to acknowledge that they are in a conversation with an actual person who is saying, "This system has taken something I loved from me."

All the parsing of words and meanings is pretty silly when one side won't admit that the emotions and concerns (or "alleged" emotions and concerns) of the other side have any validity.

Thank you for putting it into better words than I did