Any news when DVC members can get an annual pass???

[Skywalker3]

Also frustrated. We're looking at possibly our first resort only stay if we go for Spring break. We'll just do D Springs, other Orlando things, and probably purchase Universal APs again, since we do plan on going again in Oct. If Oct rolls around, and still no APs, will be a very short Disney park visit for us, and more resort time. if still no APs after that. I don't know what we'll do w these DVC points.

 

[JoeyPeligroso]

We have been renewing ours and even though we consider ourselves lucky to have APs, I am still annoyed that I am "forced" to keep renewing "just in case" they stop selling them again.

I will play the game for now/a little longer. I finally decided not to book a second Disney trip this year. I did not want to go again just because I want to get my moneys worth and have an AP. Planning an Italy trip instead.

There are times when I want to take take a break when my next trip is more than six months away and buying a new AP makes sense for us.

Time will tell.

No one knows though.

Good thoughts and I agree, I don‘t want to keep renewing, but it is such a mixed feeling as I also don’t want to give them up either.

Also agree that it creates a feeling that they must be used for multiple vacations per year…and that is the intent of the product.

I wonder if it is also the intent of the current limits on additional sales, in part….to ensure a smaller group of highly loyal fans with a greater incentive to return more frequently? Does it increase the value of this smaller pool of guests to Disney (beyond the former value of guests who had constant access to annual pass purchases)?

 

[MarkNC2Disney]

Yeah, we won’t be adding more points until AP’s come back. Which is a shame because we certainly intended to buy direct PVB2.

We allowed our Sorcerer passes to lapse this fall. DW wanted to renew just to keep continuity. I told her “what makes you believe Disney will allow us to renew next year…the ‘rules’ are fluid and made up!” You have to check your assumptions at the door, nowadays.

Disney has become a very hostile environment for consumers. It’s hard to recommend large investments in DVC currently.

 

[JoeyPeligroso]

Yeah, we won’t be adding more points until AP’s come back. Which is a shame because we certainly intended to buy direct PVB2.

We allowed our Sorcerer passes to lapse this fall. DW wanted to renew just to keep continuity. I told her “what makes you believe Disney will allow us to renew next year…the ‘rules’ are fluid and made up!” You have to check your assumptions at the door, nowadays.

Disney has become a very hostile environment for consumers. It’s hard to recommend large investments in DVC currently.

Will Disney reconsider the concept of building and maintaining an intensely loyal fan base as a balanced strategy for long-term growth?

How does a company that is and will always be a for profit business re-engage what has historically been a very loyal group of fans?

As Disney pivots away from some of the uncertainties in the last few years, will they continue policies that maximize the profitability of a smaller group of guests that may have no particular travel loyalties (the once in a lifetime group of Disney visitors) - policies that were largely created in response to an era that had substantial uncertainty with respect to travel and large group gatherings?

Many AP holders are or were members of that that loyal fanbase in addition to their passholder status….

 

[New Mouse]

Disney also needs to be careful--kids will find any park fun. The extreme loyalty to Disney starts with early indoctrination and "memories." If die-hard Disney fans decide to "try out" Universal with their children, Disney may never recapture that audience. And then there is the spill-over. The more annoyed we are with Disney, and as we lose the Disney "habit," the less likely we'll watch their movies or stream their shows. Also, it sounds as though they are losing opportunities to sell their DVC points based upon what I am reading here.

You talk like the CEO and decision makers will still be there to see that carnage. And even if they were, they'd get fired for 30 million, so does it really matter to them what happens?

 

[zavandor]

Everybody who enters the parks spends money. On days when the parks will reach capacity, there's logic in favoring those who are bigger spenders. I'm not necessarily saying that it's right to de-emphasize APs in the manner Disney has, but I do see the logic behind it.

Post-Christmas, we're entering a period where the parks are not looking as busy. Right now, the only days with any capacity restrictions tomorrow and Saturday. That's it..for all of 2023. If attendance is headed for a softer period over the next few months, it could certainly pave the way for Disney changing its minds on APs.


I'm wading into shark-infested waters here but I'll give it a shot.

IMO, one of the big differences between Universal parks and Disney Parks is the ratio of guests to attractions. The two Universal parks have more rides than either Epcot or Animal Kingdom. Probably more than Hollywood Studios. But those 5 parks draw about the same number of guests annually (about 11-12 million pre-covid.) So apples-to-apples, you're probably going to have shorter waits at USO or IOA, especially if using their express pass which is much more efficient than any of Disney's comparable offerings due to the relative scarcity.

Magic Kingdom has a few more rides than either Universal park, but before Covid it was drawing almost twice as many visitors per year (21 million.)

With more guests (proportionately) at each of the Disney Parks, longer lines are bound to result. So if you're Disney, how to you address this:

1) Raise prices: higher prices should reduce demand. (But they also tend to raise expectations and can prove frustrating to your core customers.)
2) Attendance limits: if you explicitly block people from entering the park, it helps those who do get in. This is literally Park Pass.
3) Not selling APs: another deliberate attempt to reduce the crowds on any given day
4) Increase staffing: Disney has been trying hard to staff-up since the pandemic began to subside; it's unclear to me if what we see today is exacerbated by Disney deliberately under-staffing parks or if they simply don't have the workers. Chapek is to blame for laying people off. But at the time the government was handing out extra unemployment benefits, there was no Covid vaccine and still no clear understanding of how far away we were from "normal." The parks were open, but people weren't traveling and government restrictions limited Disney's operations.
5) Build more attractions: Let's hope! Biggest failure of the Chapek regime, IMO.

At risk of offending the Universal fans, let's be blunt: Universal has no attendance caps, low AP prices and moderate wait times. They'd LOVE to add another 20-30% to their annual guest counts, which would lead to longer lines for everyone. But the business just isn't there.

Meanwhile, Disney still has a lot of business in spite of the higher prices, attendance limits, paid Genie, etc. And they seem to be trying to find the right formula to manage that business so everyone isn't left suffering.

I'm not saying Universal is bad. By all means, GO to their parks if it's a better experience. I just think Disney and US face different challenges right now. It's certainly more complicated than "be like Universal." Lifting attendance restrictions and freely selling APs at lower prices won't improve anything at WDW.

That's very interesting, I've never considered it from this point of view.

I would add also something else.
How can Universal afford to build ad operate more attraction than Disney with a lower attendance and lower prices?
Simply, Disney could afford to build more rides or build a firth gate, but they don't simply because they can get away with it and operate with higher margins.
I don't blame them for doing it, it is certainly sound business decision, if (/until) people don't get tired and stop going.

 

[CarolMN]

That's very interesting, I've never considered it from this point of view.

I would add also something else.
How can Universal afford to build ad operate more attraction than Disney with a lower attendance and lower prices?
Simply, Disney could afford to build more rides or build a firth gate, but they don't simply because they can get away with it and operate with higher margins.
I don't blame them for doing it, it is certainly sound business decision, if (/until) people don't get tired and stop going.

Profits from the parks are funding Disney+ growth (currently losing $$) and probably providing capital for other divisions as well - i.e., ESPN.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

<snip>

For me personally, I would LOVE some kind of ticket that was only valid when I was staying on property. However, that's a difficult one since it would be different for someone staying 1 week vs someone who takes 3-4 trips a year staying a week each time. So I am not sure how they would price such a beast. Maybe you can buy the number of days up to 30? I also wouldn't mind an AP that worked as they do now, but are capped at 30 days over the course of the year....

We opened quite the discussion for this type of ticket a while back as you remember. I think that it's important that Disney doesn't over-complicate a ticket like this with 25 different 'tiers' and I hope that's not one of the things that's holding up considering an offering like this. If you buy 10 and decide to go for 15, you're going to 'expect' some sort of upgrade offering mid-cycle. Then they have to deal with all of that. One ticket. No restrictions, other than the big one. You gotta stay at a WDW resort.

No. I'm going to disagree. Tie it to resort stays. No 'good neighbor.' No S&D. No nothing unless it's a WDW hotel. Price it like an AP with a discount over 'normal' APs because it is tied to a WDW stay. And leave it alone. It will be no different than evaluating any other AP offering. The consumer decides if the value is worth it to them, just like we do with APs now. People with 1000+ points won't 'gain' the system, any more so that somebody with 200 will lose out. There are always outliers in any system, but the median is the median. KISS. This is an easy problem. With an easy solution. Personally, I'm amazed Disney didn't do this 20 years ago and find it fascinating actually, that it still doesn't exist today already.

 

[CarolMN]

Tie it to resort stays. No 'good neighbor.' No S&D. No nothing unless it's a WDW hotel. Price it like an AP with a discount over 'normal' APs because it is tied to a WDW stay. And leave it alone. It will be no different than evaluating any other AP offering. The consumer decides if the value is worth it to them, just like we do with APs now.

Completely agree!

 

[jo-jo]

Beating dead horse……dvc should get the same ticket deals as Florida people. Again , I’m sure there are dvc people who go more than some “locals”. Why do people in Key West gets a better deal, than a 700 point dvc owner who lives in Georgia ?

 

[Robbie Cottam]

So even if available the pixie pass would not work for us. Maybe it would work for others…

After talking with Guest services, DVC MS management, and my DVC guide. They all know they have an issue with DVC members not being able to get annual passes.

I got the impression that a large percentage of their complaints revolve around annual passes.

The more people that voice or email their dissatisfaction the more influence that would be available to solve this problem …

The last report about annual passes return was Not before 1/9/23 so I’m breathing normally, but very hopeful I can spend a lot money next week.

 

[gmi3804]

No. I'm going to disagree. Tie it to resort stays. No 'good neighbor.' No S&D. No nothing unless it's a WDW hotel. Price it like an AP with a discount over 'normal' APs because it is tied to a WDW stay. And leave it alone. It will be no different than evaluating any other AP offering. The consumer decides if the value is worth it to them, just like we do with APs now. People with 1000+ points won't 'gain' the system, any more so that somebody with 200 will lose out. There are always outliers in any system, but the median is the median. KISS. This is an easy problem. With an easy solution. Personally, I'm amazed Disney didn't do this 20 years ago and find it fascinating actually, that it still doesn't exist today already.

It kind of does already, in the form of two extra late-night hours per week in two different parks.

Beating dead horse……dvc should get the same ticket deals as Florida people. Again , I’m sure there are dvc people who go more than some “locals”. Why do people in Key West gets a better deal, than a 700 point dvc owner who lives in Georgia ?

To be fair, someone in Kissimmee also gets a better deal than those 75 points DVC Owners.

 

[MaveDatthews]

So even if available the pixie pass would not work for us. Maybe it would work for others…

After talking with Guest services, DVC MS management, and my DVC guide. They all know they have an issue with DVC members not being able to get annual passes.

I got the impression that a large percentage of their complaints revolve around annual passes.

The more people that voice or email their dissatisfaction the more influence that would be available to solve this problem …

The last report about annual passes return was Not before 1/9/23 so I’m breathing normally, but very hopeful I can spend a lot money next week.

I also recently voiced my concern. I’m actually thinking of joining DVC as a new member, but until annual passes are back it’s a no go for me. I let the DVC sales person know that was the reason.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Disney has been trying hard to staff-up since the pandemic began to subside

Not hard enough. Key is the rate of pay.

I was talking to one of my kids about observing who local to us is begging for applicants and who is not. Costco isn't. And it is because they pay well and offer steady schedules for both FT and PT workers.

Many places struggling have some combo of poor wage or inconsistent schedules.

Disney has both: non-livable wage, and an inconsistent scheduling approach that makes holding a second job challenging.

They could address that. It would cut park profits, which per the quarterly investor statements are excellent. They could just be very profitable instead of insanely profitable.

It is a choice being made.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

I also recently voiced my concern. I’m actually thinking of joining DVC as a new member, but until annual passes are back it’s a no go for me. I let the DVC sales person know that was the reason.

I’m guessing Each guide (Dvc sales person) gets 50 calls like that a day….

 

[gmi3804]

I’m guessing Each guide (Dvc sales person) gets 50 calls like that a day….

And the number of calls they get per day versus the total number of members in the DVC membership probably doesn’t add up to much.

 

[CalOilerGurl]

After our trip in March 2022 and having to pay full price for tickets (our APs expired 2 days before the "eligible date" to obtain one through the "recovery" program) and the huge frustration with Genie+/ILL's, we decided to take a year off from Disney. Fortunately, there are enough people who want to rent points, so we're going elsewhere on vacation on the rental fees realized. Unless APs come back, Genie+/ILL's are revamped to be usable for us, or the crowds disappear, we'll be anywhere but WDW.

The whole stupidity of Parks being in exclusive control of AP's for DVC members shows that we need a better advocate at the negotiating table with them, or the silos of control at Disney so powerful that they're destined for failure.

I agree with ALL of this!

 

[MarkNC2Disney]

DVC direct sales are extremely profitable for TWDC - they pull forward future cash flow and earnings into the present, which helps fund projects like Disney+. More money sooner is always better.

You would think Disney would incentivize direct sales more. Offering AP’s to direct owners is an obvious lever. It’s obnoxious to buy park tickets à la carte per trip. If my costs scale 1 for 1 with the number of points I have, then, well, I simply won’t keep adding points (and certainly not direct points).

TWDC internal politics must be horrendous.

 

[Einstein509]

Disney also needs to be careful--kids will find any park fun. The extreme loyalty to Disney starts with early indoctrination and "memories." If die-hard Disney fans decide to "try out" Universal with their children, Disney may never recapture that audience. And then there is the spill-over. The more annoyed we are with Disney, and as we lose the Disney "habit," the less likely we'll watch their movies or stream their shows. Also, it sounds as though they are losing opportunities to sell their DVC points based upon what I am reading here.

Our younger DD went to Universal over our holiday break. Loved Minions! She has been to WDW countless times and loved it, but I never heard her say anything about it during this trip even though we stayed at DVC. No mention of princesses, Disney characters, etc. So the indoctrination has started.

I currently have an AP because I bought it the first day they went on sale post-pandemic. I have religiously held it since and renewed it. I hate the cost I pay because - take this year for example - I may not even go this year..... but I am still paying for an AP. I bet Disney loves it. I hate it. But I will continue to pay it. So..... yeah. Give me a better option. But I would have to be certain that if I let go of my AP, I can get something else that I trust will be there (is renewable). I would be worried to jump off a ticket cliff with no undo action available to me.

Maybe I'm a frugal person or I'm more conscious with my money, but for the life of me I wouldn't even imagine forking out $4000-$5000 per year (size of our family) for a product that I won't use or use to it's potential. To me, this is nuts. Imagine putting that money into investments, stocks, charities, or even using it for another vacation. That kind of money would get a pretty decent vacation in a lot of places in the world or the U.S. We let our APs expire as I was not going to pay a heck of a lot more just to keep them and "maybe" use them. I can use that money more wisely. To each his own as I'm not knocking folks that do this. Perhaps their financial situation is different than mine and perhaps there's more emotion involved, but like I said, I just don't get it.

No. I'm going to disagree. Tie it to resort stays. No 'good neighbor.' No S&D. No nothing unless it's a WDW hotel. Price it like an AP with a discount over 'normal' APs because it is tied to a WDW stay. And leave it alone. It will be no different than evaluating any other AP offering. The consumer decides if the value is worth it to them, just like we do with APs now. People with 1000+ points won't 'gain' the system, any more so that somebody with 200 will lose out. There are always outliers in any system, but the median is the median. KISS. This is an easy problem. With an easy solution. Personally, I'm amazed Disney didn't do this 20 years ago and find it fascinating actually, that it still doesn't exist today already.

Completely agree here. Folks purchase APs which have a standard rate for the year. Some may go 5-10 days per year, some may go a total of 1-2 months, some locals may go almost every day. Still the same price for all. This would apply to DVC resort stays the same way. You purchase the DVC resort stay AP and can only use it if you stay in those resorts. Again, some could do 2-3 days, some a week, some a few weeks. Would need to be priced right to work though, not talking the same pricing as a regular AP.

 

[tjkraz]

Completely agree here. Folks purchase APs which have a standard rate for the year. Some may go 5-10 days per year, some may go a total of 1-2 months, some locals may go almost every day. Still the same price for all. This would apply to DVC resort stays the same way. You purchase the DVC resort stay AP and can only use it if you stay in those resorts. Again, some could do 2-3 days, some a week, some a few weeks. Would need to be priced right to work though, not talking the same pricing as a regular AP.

Pricing is the difficult topic to address.

For 6-8 years now, many DVC members have been content buying the Gold / Sorcerer pass for prices as high as $800-900. Many members are only using these tickets for 2-3 weeks per year. And still, we're begging for the option to return because the alternative is paying ~$600 per week for MYW tickets.

Through their actions, Disney is basically saying "no, we cannot afford to sell Sorcerer APs to DVC members for $900 each."

IF some alternative ticket media were introduced--say, a 20 days / year pass--can we really expect it to be any cheaper?