Annual Pass Rumors??

[DeeBee3]

People are missing the key word here.... the demand is exceeding the level we set.

Nothing is said about the attendance level being lower than usual (which it is) or how low it actually is.

There is not record demand, the demand is just more than they can actually handle or choose to handle.

This 100%. It's all about what "they" set as capacity. They are making the numbers.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

This 100%. It's all about what "they" set as capacity. They are making the numbers.

Warning, this post may contain speculation, conjecture or opinion.

McCarthy addresses this. They did set capacity numbers lower at the parks. However they also said the current numbers attending are similar to the 2019 numbers. There are take-aways from that.

 

[Bibbidi_Boo]

McCarthy addresses this. They did set capacity numbers lower at the parks. However they also said the current numbers attending are similar to the 2019 numbers. There are take-always from that.

Sorry but there is no way the crowds are the same as 2019. It’s not hard for them to spin things in whatever angle they want to. If they didn’t give exact numbers then I don’t believe it all. We have been going regularly since 2008 and each year got busier and busier and it was becoming miserable in 2019 early 2020. Now it’s still crowded but not like what we dealt with before.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

Well said. They still don't have every restaurant and experience open yet or running full capacity.


I agree, but I it is also every changing. Forecasts change, goals change and so on. In time I think AP's will return when who knows. AP's aren't all bad and they know that. The ones that travel to use them are a different group than the locals that clog up the parks every time something new is for sale, or first day for things and that makes a negative environment for less frequent or first time guests.

They need to find a better balance for those that go more than once a year but don't need the frequency of an AP.

Warning, this post may contain speculation, conjecture or opinion.

It is dynamic. That is a reason Chapek talked about having developed tools to respond in real time. They can turn on a dime. However, selling new APs is more of a mid or long term agreement. Not as long term as building a ride, but at least a year or more out with renewal expectations.

I noted your derisive comment about local APs who clog the parks. A guest is a guest once in the gates.

I also see that Disney is only selling one annual pass right now; the Pixie, limited to Florida residents. After a year, the Pixie can be renewed into the Incredi-pass.

It is known this majority of buyers for the Pixie pass are locals. So, it appears Disney still values these guests; the locals who can attend on weekdays.

Disney is perfectly capable of choosing their guests and arranging packages for admission. Their unfavorable attendance mix comment referenced Disneyland. So, maybe they are happy with limiting new AP sales for WDW to Central Florida locals?

For those relying on tickets and attending more than once a year, Chapek indicates price increases. Have you checked out ticket prices for fall? Expensive! Florida residents get some breaks there too.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

Warning, this post may contain speculation, conjecture or opinion.

Disney has the turnstiles and park reservations numbers. But, anyone can choose to personally believe their own anecdotal information and compare it to a 3 year old personal memory.

I may not like the Q3 call report, but due to indicia of reliability, I choose to rely on that for decisions. I do not believe, right out of the chute, that because the facts are different than what I want that Disney top executives are liars or spinning things to be misleading. That would be fraud in matters regulated by the SEC and the probability they would do that is just nill.

 

[Miffy]

It is dynamic. That is a reason Chapek they talked about having developed tools to respond in real time. They can turn on a dime. However, selling new APs is more of a mid or long term agreement. Not as long term as building a ride, but at least a year or more out with renewal expectations.

I noted your derisive comment about local APs who clog the parks. A guest is a guest once in the gates.

I also see that Disney is only selling one annual pass right now; the Pixie, limited to Florida residents. After a year, the Pixie can be renewed into the Incredi-pass.

It is known this majority of buyers for the Pixie pass are locals. So, it appears Disney still values these guests; the locals who can attend on weekdays, like retirees etc. Florida is a well known retiree center, especially Central Florida. The world’s largest retirement development (yes, the world’s largest) is just 45 miles NW of Disney with a population north of 150,000, 100+ swimming pools, 56 golf courses, 100+ recreation centers, 3,000+ social groups for hobbies, many parks and miles of multi- modal and gold cart paths. It is 20 miles north to south and forecasted to be about half built with the direction of new construction headed south closer to Disney World. People are currently in a lottery system to buy homes. Disney is a big thing.

Disney is perfectly capable of choosing their guests and arranging packages for admission. Their unfavorable attendance mix comment referenced Disneyland. So, maybe they are happy with limiting new AP sales for WDW to Central Florida locals?

For those relying on tickets and attending more than once a year, Chapek indicates price increases. Have you checked out ticket prices for fall? Expensive! Florida residents get some breaks there too.

Thanks for your posts, @Ms Bibbidi. Always interesting.

I do wonder what's going to happen. My sister and I are out-of-state AP holders. We both renewed our APs this year and hope the renewals (at a price we can live with) continue, since, without them, I can't see us going more than once a year, and we do love going to WDW.

The part of all this analysis I don't really get is the idea that we're taking up space in the parks that a different kind of guest--a guest who would spend more money on meals and/or souvenirs and/or special events--would be able to have if only we didn't come. I don't think we are, since we always stay at a WDW resort. Doesn't WDW make more money from us, staying on-site and never leaving the bubble, than they do from off-site guests who aren't APs? I haven't stayed off-site in years, but when I did I certainly didn't spend all my dollars and time at WDW. I went to other parks and ate outside WDW. So are those guests also now in the lowered-value category?

It's not unlikely that if APs disappear and park ticket prices continue to skyrocket, that my sister and I will start staying off-site in the future. If a lovely off-site resort + daily rideshares starts costing less than staying on-site in a so-so resort, WDW is going to lose even more income from us, the apparently unwanted guests.

Perhaps WDW is planning on keeping their staffing low and limiting the number of guests in the parks and continually raising prices. I guess that's possible.

So much that made a WDW trip great, aside from the resorts and parks, were benefits that no longer exist and will probably never return in any form: Magical Express, FP+ (or even advance reservations for G+), and bounceback offers for future stays (we really really miss this one) come immediately to mind. Little things that made WDW special are also gone, like towel animals. And dare I mention discounts? Since 1999, when I had Magic Kingdom Club through my employer, I have never stayed at a WDW resort without using a discount. Even the last 3 trips we made in the last year were all with some kind of a discount, no matter how minimal. Yet there's no fall discount out--although I believe there is a discount for military members--yet for this year and maybe there won't be. We shall see.

 

[Monykalyn]

I'd say that's true, but some people will use the resort and not do the parks. It would be hard for me to do with my little kids, but I could see doing that when older and going to Universal or other places in the area. Obviously some people do that now.

And there are FAR less expensive TS in area that are nicer and better kept up than DVC. Last time we stayed SSR it was just sad, AKL was better but was studio (with CM discounts). Our TS lets us trade into MVC resorts, without being locked into “Disney” either. In fact we are in Orlando over Thanksgiving week at Marriott Grande Vista 2 bedroom for less than $1k (MF plus trade fee). If exploring the area staying DVC is expensive way to do it but I know people love their DVC! Our TS also now lets us trade into DVC again, up until late July there was 1 bedroom SSR available all summer through October. If we ever do Disney again I’ll just search far enough ahead to trade into DVC.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

Warning, this post may contain speculation, conjecture or opinion.

Miffy, there are 15 partner hotels that give you basically the same benefits as staying on-site. These other hotels are ginormous resorts and often have shuttles. They can draw from bucket #1 with ticket holders and APs who stay onsite. There are many less expensive hotels not in the big Gang of 15, but then you are limited to your reservation holds or you have to have a ticket and reservation.

You just renewed, but keep up your annual passes. Save for it.

https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/park-pass-resort-hotels/

Theme Park Reservation Eligibility for Hotel Guests​

If you booked an upcoming stay at one of the following hotels, you can review theme park reservation availability for “Select Resort Hotels”:

Disney Resort Hotels

• Bay Lake Tower at Disney's Contemporary Resort
• Boulder Ridge Villas at Disney's Wilderness Lodge
• Copper Creek Villas & Cabins at Disney's Wilderness Lodge
• Disney's All-Star Movies Resort
• Disney's All-Star Music Resort
• Disney's All-Star Sports Resort
• Disney's Animal Kingdom Lodge
• Disney's Animal Kingdom Villas - Jambo House
• Disney's Animal Kingdom Villas - Kidani Village
• Disney's Art of Animation Resort
• Disney's Beach Club Resort
• Disney's Beach Club Villas
• Disney's BoardWalk Inn
• Disney's BoardWalk Villas
• Disney's Caribbean Beach Resort
• Disney's Contemporary Resort
• Disney's Coronado Springs Resort
• Disney's Grand Floridian Resort & Spa
• Disney's Old Key West Resort
• Disney's Polynesian Village Resort
• Disney's Polynesian Villas & Bungalows
• Disney's Pop Century Resort
• Disney's Port Orleans Resort - French Quarter
• Disney's Port Orleans Resort - Riverside
• Disney's Riviera Resort
• Disney's Saratoga Springs Resort & Spa
• Disney's Wilderness Lodge
• Disney's Yacht Club Resort
• The Cabins at Disney's Fort Wilderness Resort
• The Campsites at Disney's Fort Wilderness Resort
• The Villas at Disney's Grand Floridian Resort & Spa

Other Walt Disney World Resort Area Hotels

• Walt Disney World Dolphin Hotel
• Walt Disney World Swan Hotel
• Walt Disney World Swan Reserve
• Four Seasons Resort Orlando at Walt Disney World
• B Resort & Spa Lake Buena Vista
• Doubletree Suites by Hilton Orlando
• Hilton Orlando Buena Vista Palace
• Hilton Orlando Lake Buena Vista
• Holiday Inn Orlando – Disney Springs Area
• Wyndham Garden Lake Buena Vista
• Wyndham Lake Buena Vista
• Signia by Hilton Orlando Bonnet Creek
• Waldorf Astoria Orlando
• Shades of Green
• Drury Plaza Hotel Orlando Lake Buena Vista

 

[Jrb1979]

Thanks for your posts, @Ms Bibbidi. Always interesting.

I do wonder what's going to happen. My sister and I are out-of-state AP holders. We both renewed our APs this year and hope the renewals (at a price we can live with) continue, since, without them, I can't see us going more than once a year, and we do love going to WDW.

The part of all this analysis I don't really get is the idea that we're taking up space in the parks that a different kind of guest--a guest who would spend more money on meals and/or souvenirs and/or special events--would be able to have if only we didn't come. I don't think we are, since we always stay at a WDW resort. Doesn't WDW make more money from us, staying on-site and never leaving the bubble, than they do from off-site guests who aren't APs? I haven't stayed off-site in years, but when I did I certainly didn't spend all my dollars and time at WDW. I went to other parks and ate outside WDW. So are those guests also now in the lowered-value category?

It's not unlikely that if APs disappear and park ticket prices continue to skyrocket, that my sister and I will start staying off-site in the future. If a lovely off-site resort + daily rideshares starts costing less than staying on-site in a so-so resort, WDW is going to lose even more income from us, the apparently unwanted guests.

Perhaps WDW is planning on keeping their staffing low and limiting the number of guests in the parks and continually raising prices. I guess that's possible.

So much that made a WDW trip great, aside from the resorts and parks, were benefits that no longer exist and will probably never return in any form: Magical Express, FP+ (or even advance reservations for G+), and bounceback offers for future stays (we really really miss this one) come immediately to mind. Little things that made WDW special are also gone, like towel animals. And dare I mention discounts? Since 1999, when I had Magic Kingdom Club through my employer, I have never stayed at a WDW resort without using a discount. Even the last 3 trips we made in the last year were all with some kind of a discount, no matter how minimal. Yet there's no fall discount out--although I believe there is a discount for military members--yet for this year and maybe there won't be. We shall see.

You're the kind of AP holder they like. You stay on-site and spend a week at a time.

As far as APs going forward, I see two things happening, first would be when enough people let their APs lapse then they will offer them again. The second one is when they do return they possibly get rid of payment plans.

 

[bsmcneil]

So Disney is certainly generalizing - but if you fall into the "unfavorable" category - you're saying there's nothing wrong with being labeled as such? If I'm a CM working at Disney, the messaging from my leadership is now that if you're an AP holder, you're an unfavorable guest - so treating you as someone who is unfavorable is no big deal right? I can give preference to the favorable guests.

Can you see how this can have a trickle down effect? When you're a leader, what you say matters and can have unforeseen implications - even if in your mind you're talking strictly about financials - the people who work for you may apply what you said in different ways.

Since you think it is a neutral term - would you be cool if Disney asked you and everyone else they deemed unfavorable to wear a shirt saying "unfavorable guest" around the parks? It is a value neutral term.

I'm a little surprised that you think people are acting entitled to be thought of as more than unfavorable though, especially if you're spending significant amounts of money.

Just so we're clear here - the word unfavorable means "expressing or showing a lack of approval or support" or "not pleasing" - a synonym for "unfavorable" is "negative".

I will say though that Freshbaked had an interesting video saying that Disney may not be applying the "unfavorable guest mix" to all Magic Key holders. What he believes Disney meant was that because the Park Pass bucket is the same for all Magic Key holders, the lower tiers are taking all of the weekend dates that are not blacked out months in advance, causing the higher tiers who don't book Park Passes months in advance (since they aren't blacked out) to be blocked from getting Park Passes on those weekends. That is his assessment of the "unfavorable guest mix".

I honestly don't think it tracks with what Chapek was talking about though, as he was focused on Disneyland ticket revenue when he talked about "unfavorable attendance mix" - meaning too many APs were coming to the parks and lowering ticket revenue.

The weird thing is on the transcript of the earnings call I can't find the words "unfavorable" or "attendance mix" ... https://seekingalpha.com/article/45...k-on-q3-2022-results-earnings-call-transcript

That's the thing "unfavorable guest mix" refers to how the numbers pan out for the CFO. It's the mix of guests that is unfavorable - not the people themselves. Taking offense to that is ... something. It really, really feels like grasping at straws. If someone saying that the mix of people who use coupons at their business vs. not is unfavorable - that doesn't mean the customers using coupons are themselves somehow bad, undesired, etc. Honestly, this makes me recognize why AP holders have gotten "unfavorable" nicknames amongst some guests and CMs.

 

[Upatnoon]

Thanks for your posts, @Ms Bibbidi. Always interesting.

I do wonder what's going to happen. My sister and I are out-of-state AP holders. We both renewed our APs this year and hope the renewals (at a price we can live with) continue, since, without them, I can't see us going more than once a year, and we do love going to WDW.

The part of all this analysis I don't really get is the idea that we're taking up space in the parks that a different kind of guest--a guest who would spend more money on meals and/or souvenirs and/or special events--would be able to have if only we didn't come. I don't think we are, since we always stay at a WDW resort. Doesn't WDW make more money from us, staying on-site and never leaving the bubble, than they do from off-site guests who aren't APs? I haven't stayed off-site in years, but when I did I certainly didn't spend all my dollars and time at WDW. I went to other parks and ate outside WDW. So are those guests also now in the lowered-value category?

It's not unlikely that if APs disappear and park ticket prices continue to skyrocket, that my sister and I will start staying off-site in the future. If a lovely off-site resort + daily rideshares starts costing less than staying on-site in a so-so resort, WDW is going to lose even more income from us, the apparently unwanted guests.

Perhaps WDW is planning on keeping their staffing low and limiting the number of guests in the parks and continually raising prices. I guess that's possible.

So much that made a WDW trip great, aside from the resorts and parks, were benefits that no longer exist and will probably never return in any form: Magical Express, FP+ (or even advance reservations for G+), and bounceback offers for future stays (we really really miss this one) come immediately to mind. Little things that made WDW special are also gone, like towel animals. And dare I mention discounts? Since 1999, when I had Magic Kingdom Club through my employer, I have never stayed at a WDW resort without using a discount. Even the last 3 trips we made in the last year were all with some kind of a discount, no matter how minimal. Yet there's no fall discount out--although I believe there is a discount for military members--yet for this year and maybe there won't be. We shall see.

You are looking at this through just you while Disney is looking at it through millions of guests and visits.

You may be an AP holder and spend more than the average, yet if the math shows the group spends less, Disney is leaving money on the table.

Small percentage differences in guest spending can mean millions in revenue at scale.

Does this mean that Disney does not value your business? Absolutely not! The challenge for them is to maximize revenue while keeping you and its other loyal customers happy.

 

[bsmcneil]

TBH I think a lot of that comes from the perception over the last very recent years. Disney hasn't been shying away from being blunt in who they want in the parks and their reasoning for certain decisions. Once you tell people it'll be good on their waistlines (paraphrasing) to have reduced portions you've sorta jumped to a different territory. Combine that with how they've been been reducing AP stuff as far as what they give and I get it, saying you're unfavorable is like a slap in the face. All of this stuff and it's not that far fetched to think they are saying unfavorable in some sort of way.

I hear that and concede the point - there certainly seems to be a "death by a thousand paper cuts" thing (it's just weird to see people react so strongly to this particular thing).

 

[New Mouse]

McCarthy addresses this. They did set capacity numbers lower at the parks. However they also said the current numbers attending are similar to the 2019 numbers. There are take-aways from that.

If that's the case they should provide those numbers. There is a reason they are avoiding full disclosure.

They are doing well financially don't get me wrong but the demand isn't what it was 3 years ago. Listen to what I say and not what you see is a great way to get those investors on board!

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

Thanks for your posts, @Ms Bibbidi. Always interesting.

I do wonder what's going to happen. My sister and I are out-of-state AP holders. We both renewed our APs this year and hope the renewals (at a price we can live with) continue, since, without them, I can't see us going more than once a year, and we do love going to WDW.

The part of all this analysis I don't really get is the idea that we're taking up space in the parks that a different kind of guest--a guest who would spend more money on meals and/or souvenirs and/or special events--would be able to have if only we didn't come. I don't think we are, since we always stay at a WDW resort. Doesn't WDW make more money from us, staying on-site and never leaving the bubble, than they do from off-site guests who aren't APs? I haven't stayed off-site in years, but when I did I certainly didn't spend all my dollars and time at WDW. I went to other parks and ate outside WDW. So are those guests also now in the lowered-value category?

It's not unlikely that if APs disappear and park ticket prices continue to skyrocket, that my sister and I will start staying off-site in the future. If a lovely off-site resort + daily rideshares starts costing less than staying on-site in a so-so resort, WDW is going to lose even more income from us, the apparently unwanted guests.

Perhaps WDW is planning on keeping their staffing low and limiting the number of guests in the parks and continually raising prices. I guess that's possible.

So much that made a WDW trip great, aside from the resorts and parks, were benefits that no longer exist and will probably never return in any form: Magical Express, FP+ (or even advance reservations for G+), and bounceback offers for future stays (we really really miss this one) come immediately to mind. Little things that made WDW special are also gone, like towel animals. And dare I mention discounts? Since 1999, when I had Magic Kingdom Club through my employer, I have never stayed at a WDW resort without using a discount. Even the last 3 trips we made in the last year were all with some kind of a discount, no matter how minimal. Yet there's no fall discount out--although I believe there is a discount for military members--yet for this year and maybe there won't be. We shall see.

Warning: This post may contain speculation, conjecture or opinion.

I am going to comment on your post about APs are taking up space and blocking more profitable ticketed guests.

I am beginning to think Disney’s statements that started this really mean something else.

First, some background. When Covid hit, the parks were closed by governmental order. Disney World parks had been closed 118 days before re-opening. Disneyland was still closed. The re-opening of Disney Springs was May 20th. The re-opening of WDW Magic Kingdom and Animal Kingdom was July 11, 2020. The re-opening of Epcot and Hollywood Studios was July 15. 2020.

Chapek first made this comment in the Q3 earnings report August 4, 2020 right after some parks re-opened. Now remember, the 3rd quarter performance dates are April 1, 2020 through June 30, 2020. There were no visitors in the Disney World parks at that time. He had to be talking about historical numbers. Disneyland was closed also and stayed closed for over a year. Because of Covid travel restrictions, and having a Republican Governor, Florida was one of the first states to re-open businesses. Therefore, upon re-opening, the vast majority of guests at WDW were local passholders. But, Chapek would not have had the numbers on post-covid re-opening guests' spend rate in time for the August 4, 2020 Q3 report. It takes time to gather and crunch the numbers for a report. Only numbers up to June 30th were in that report. None of the re-opening numbers were in it.

Chapek's Quote in Context:

Chapek was just responding to a question about less than expected parks performance. Of course, during the reporting period, the domestic parks were closed on both coasts. But, Chapek was defending against an idea that it was due to discount package offerings and talked about the recent disruption in travel patterns. He should have asked for a clarification of the question and started with saying the parks were closed during the Q3 reporting period.

You know how when somebody brings up a topic it makes your mind go off on a tangent? Well, the next comments Chapek made were that right now, the proportion of local passholders was much higher than usual. This was true, but it wasn't part of the report data for Q3. But the next things he says -- may be an off-shoot tangent thought and that is:

“All I’ll follow up on the parks question is that, as you know, different guests, depending on where they’re coming from, have different relative values in terms of their contribution as a guest to the park. And typically, someone who travels and stays for five to seven days is marginally more valuable to the business than someone who comes in on an annual pass and stays a day or two and consumes less, you know, merchandise and food and beverage. So, the way I would look at it is that it’s just as that constituency changes a little bit, so do our overall margins change. But it’s not because of price reductions or anything like that.” (Disney CEO Bob Chapek, Q3 Earnings Call, August 4, 2020.)​

​

See, that is the rest of the story. He was responding to a question that appears to be ill-timed and perhaps based on some earlier period than the report in question.

Anyway, he talks about the "constituency" changing. I think that is really important here. Because later comments in the Q3 2022 connect those constituency comments to Disneyland! Remember, Chapek is in California. To him, Disney World is "back east." In his back-yard is the constituency of Disneyland and prior to the pandemic, they estimated well over 1,000,000 annual passes outstanding. The LA Basin has a population of 10 million and over the last decade or so, that constituency has been changing rather dramatically. I know. I used to live there for the better part of 30 years. The demographics of the LA Basin and SoCal are growing. Latinos are now the majority and whites are a minority. When a population changes that drastically both in composition and numbers, it creates friction with other minorities. There were also significant changes in law and law enforcement standards. Homelessness, dangerous drugs, the immigration issues, single parent families and the strengthening of gangs all played a part. This list is not exclusive. The endemic divisiveness of America on other issues like political extremism, wokeness and other issues are also impacting Disney crowds. When we enter Disney parks, we tote all of this along with us just under the surface. Disney had 1,000,000 outstanding APs and a reputation for being a "locals park." That is a flowery euphemism. Let's call it what it is. The recent stories about Six Flags in Texas is also using a euphemism of "rowdy teens." These are gangbangers. If one has worked in the professional field interfacing you get to know the colors, signs and symbols on the tattoos. While you see it as a "sleeve" someone else can read it. We can read the graffiti and know if it says something. It is like studying a foreign language.

I believe that Chapek's chatter about the value of different guests "depending on where they are coming from" and about "unfavorable attendance mix" refers to what some are now calling "riff raff." Walt first put an admission price on the park to discourage "riff raff." Disney is seeing the outbreaks of frequent fights (probably between gang bangers). (This is not racist, there are gang bangers in all races.) They flood the parks on Friday nights and weekends. But, Disney/Chapek cannot say that out loud and certainly not in public. Disney cannot admit they might have a gang banger problem. They can only talk about finances and the guests they are trying to attract; the high profit family vacationer. So, with recent language about it referencing Disneyland, and Disneyland being located in a sea of 10,000,000 people that has changing demographics, Disney is concerned about keeping their operation going and their reputation as a safe, place for family entertainment. The Happiest Place on Earth. Just a handful of bad incidents, if persistent, can destroy a multi-billion dollar industry. But, he cannot speak this out loud.

So, Miffy, I really do not see that you are a guest Disney wants to discourage. You and your sister are wanted. Gang bangers are wanted too as long as they leave the intimidation and violence outside and act like friendly vacationers. But, we need to understand and try hard to cooperate. Of course, Disney is a for-profit business. We know that. But, seriously, with a serious problem, Disney might have to use some price hikes related to resolving a problem like this. So, do try to save up for your planned vacations. Stay on property if you can.

 

[Liquidice]

That's the thing "unfavorable guest mix" refers to how the numbers pan out for the CFO. It's the mix of guests that is unfavorable - not the people themselves. Taking offense to that is ... something. It really, really feels like grasping at straws. If someone saying that the mix of people who use coupons at their business vs. not is unfavorable - that doesn't mean the customers using coupons are themselves somehow bad, undesired, etc. Honestly, this makes me recognize why AP holders have gotten "unfavorable" nicknames amongst some guests and CMs.

It isn’t so much what they meant as it is the public perception. There are better ways to have said what they said. Even though I know they aren’t personally targeting individuals by saying they are unfavorable, I think most people take it that way and like I said it creates the potential for CMs to apply that messaging when dealing with individuals as well. You can say that people shouldn’t react that way but they do. A lot of books on leadership will say the same thing for both employees and customers.

Companies that only think of their customers as profit centers and analyze them as pieces of data will lose site of their customers. I’m not saying Disney is doing only that, they still ask for customer feedback but they certainly seem focused on raw data and I think thats a mistake.

 

[Brian Noble]

TBH I think a lot of that comes from the perception over the last very recent years. Disney hasn't been shying away from being blunt in who they want in the parks and their reasoning for certain decisions.

It's been more than just a few years. Well before the pandemic, Iger said in more than one conference call that they were trying to slightly reduce attendance at a higher price point. In other words: they are happy to have the less-profitable guests not show up.

If I'm a CM working at Disney, the messaging from my leadership is now that if you're an AP holder, you're an unfavorable guest

That ship sailed a LONG time ago. There was a discussion board back in the day that was frequented by CMs, who often referred to APs as "Passh***s" due to an oversized sense of entitlement that enough APers bring with them to be noticeable.

And there are FAR less expensive TS in area that are nicer and better kept up than DVC.

Disney is a distinctly average timeshare operator/developer. To be fair, they learned quickly that they didn't have to be any better than that. OKW is much more like the "other" timeshares in Orlando, but it turned out to be overkill for what buyers were looking for, hence the "2nd Generation" resort design at BWV, BCV, VWL, and SSR with significantly less common space, postage-stamp-sized balconies, etc.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

It's been more than just a few years. Well before the pandemic, Iger said in more than one conference call that they were trying to slightly reduce attendance at a higher price point. In other words: they are happy to have the less-profitable guests not show up.

True, it's something I've said too they've been hunting that guest with disposable income to burn at Disney. I guess when I say very recent years I was more meaning in the last 5-6 years or so because a lot of people on the Boards have been going to Disney for such a long time that's fairly recent for in that context.

Like I know in 2011 when we went it really wasn't like that, in 2017 it wasn't too too bad although it was getting there with some of their things they were trying out (like EMM, the bus that would take you to specific entrances bypassing security lines at the tapstiles, MK tents, etc) but in the leading years to the pandemic with ticket pricing and AP pricing and resort pricing and all the hard ticket events and just how many days of the year those take up and then when they introduced Genie+/ILL, etc it's all been very much targeting that specific guest the ones that go all out for their 1 trip or the ones that come back but have zero issues spending money.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

If that's the case they should provide those numbers. There is a reason they are avoiding full disclosure.

They are doing well financially don't get me wrong but the demand isn't what it was 3 years ago. Listen to what I say and not what you see is a great way to get those investors on board!

Warning, this post may contain speculation, conjecture or opinion.

The numbers are proprietary information. They will not publish those any more than CocaCola will publish their formula.

 

[New Mouse]

The numbers are proprietary information. They will not publish those any more than CocaCola will publish their formula.

So then we have 0 reason to actually believe the statement.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

So then we have 0 reason to actually believe the statement.

Warning, this post may contain speculation, conjecture or opinion.

Very funny. But, not logical.