Annual Pass holder lack of loyalty?

[WDW Poly Princess]

A big reason why I buy AP's is the room discounts. I think there will still be AP rates even though they have the fairytale package, and I'd really like it if they would do something similar for AP holders, ie the same sort of deal, but with AP rates. Now that would be great!

 

[Sammie]

Originally posted by BrianD
Personally, I think that Disney does not owe anyone anything, except for what they pay for. For example, if you purchase an annual pass then you are "owed" unlimited admission for one year. That sounds like a pretty good perk to me. Pay $400 - $500 and get to go into the parks for as many days as you want for a year. Where in Disney's advertising does it say that you are entitled to more than that? Any additional discounts are just a nice extra.

Also, why should DVC or AP holders be "owed" more than any other guest at WDW. You get what you pay for. There seems to be a mentallity here that DVC folks or AP holders are the elite of WDW guests and think of themselves as some kind of VIP. I am saying this as a PAP holder myself. I think I have it going on because when I'm at WDW I can walk in and out of any park on any day, I think that's pretty cool. I am not owed the best of the best in resort discounts.

I think the problem is that because of Disney's struggles in the weak economy, we have all gotten use to incredible discounts, and are now SPOILED because of them. In fact, we now plan our vacation budgets based on discounts that we expect that we will get.

Very good point Brian. I have never bought an AP expecting anything other than the admission. In fact I don't know of anywhere it is written discounts on rooms are a guarantee.

As to the discounts spoiling us. One of the reasons Disney was so slow to offer mass discounts is this very reason. When the economy recovers and travel picks up, discounts will begin to fade away. I remember when discounts were very rare at Disney.

 

[Sammie]

Originally posted by PantherBill
I would like to thank everyone for their point of view on this thread I started as it does show all sides..

For those who say that we should go to the park and not expect discounts I am wondering how many children you have? When we go to DW there are 5 of us and the costs ADD UP.

Disney vacations take up a fair portion of our family budget and many thoughts and planning go into our trip to DW. Purchasing our paps was part of the plan because as some have mentioned we are planning our vacation a week early this year to get 2 vacations out of them but even still the "extra" costs can still be staggering to a family.. (No Whining intended)

Now I also want EVERYONE to enjoy the DW experience and I heavily promote DW to all friends, family, etc and hope DW can attract masses of new customers to the resorts but after spending Thousands and Thousands of dollars in DW over the last 3 years I would hope I and other ap's ALSO could benefit from a new promotion..

Now if going to DW and also purchasing pap's for 5 of us for 3 straight years is not being loyal then what is?

If we have to stay off property this year (cannot fully enjoy DW unless on property) to stay within our "planned" budget does anyone truely think we will be going to disney the following year?

Marketing stategy does not seem very thought out here as Disney may take 2 steps forward and one step back.

Just my thoughts.... Thanks for reading...

Just curious Bill, I understand how expensive taking a family of 5 is to DisneyWorld, but is it anymore expensive than any other major vacation destination. Have you priced major league sports tickets for 5? Other theme parks tickets? Hotels in other major vacation destinations.

I really don't think DisneyWorld is anymore expensive than any major vacation destination.

I am sorry you can not enjoy going without staying at a Disney resort. I find it just as easy to enjoy the parks off property.

 

[dreamflight99]

Originally posted by melomouse

"As soon as I got my AP, it took away lots of stress about getting to parks at the crack of dawn, the commando mentality, the anxiety of "maximizing" ticket days."

"Stop and smell the roses and drink from the half full glass. We'll all live much longer!!!"

"WELL STATED" and MY SENTIMENTS PRECISELY! (LOL). You hit the nail on the head with this one. We reside in So. Cal, and have PAP to WDW in Orlando. We make it there each summer, for a 7+ week sojourn. We spend a week or more in Disney's VERO Beach resort, another week in the PBH, about a month at the WDW Dolphin, and the remainder split between a disney cruise, the Peabody, and a DISNEY-OWNED Property (concierge suite). We did NOT buy the PAP's for a Room Discount.

For the Disney-owned portion this summer, we are at the CR for five eves, 14th floor concierge suite. NO AP DISCOUNTS are APPLICABLE for this type of accomodation! No Biggie. We purchase these PAP's for the "luxury" of being able to visit the parks/attractions for more than 5 weeks each summer. We just would not be able to do this on a LOS (not feasible), or any other tickets. We sleep in each morning, and take our time savoring the "vacation" we work so hard to experience.

I nearly "burst" out laughing as I read the words you wrote, especially commando mentality. If more folks only understood an annual pass costs less than a length of stay pass (in many circumstances), there would be less of this pseudo-military style action in the parks! Thanks, for a wonderful...light-hearted post!

* for those awaiting an AP discount for the following period after the current promo expires (7/03)...please, do not lose hope. I truly believe there will be a discount offered VERY SOON. Keep the DISNEY~FAITH!

 

[TeresaNJ]

I think people are missing the point here. What I, as an AP holder, am upset about is the fact 1. AP discounts over the last year or so have been very hard to come by, the rooms sell out very quickly, leaving me to think that not many are earmarked for AP discounts 2. I got a better rate using a code for our May trip than I would have using the AP discount and 3. Packages such as the FTP are of no use to AP holders since we already have our park passes. I would just like to see AP discount room rates be comparable to the rates offered for packages that include tickets and code rates. Having said that, I will still continue to buy AP's since we go to WDW more than once a year.

 

[peachgirl]

1. AP discounts over the last year or so have been very hard to come by, the rooms sell out very quickly, leaving me to think that not many are earmarked for AP discounts

While I disagree that AP rates have been hard to come by, it is true that they sell out quickly for some resorts. That's true of all discounts most of the time. If you read the boards this morning, you'll see people already waiting on hold for the new discount. These days the word of code releases is instantaneous. More people are aware of them so they book much more quickly. Also, Disney doesn't issue discounts as a reward for loyalty. They issue them because they want to fill their resorts. The number released is based strictly on their occupancy levels.

2. I got a better rate using a code for our May trip than I would have using the AP discount

What code did you use that gave a better discount than the AP? My discount was better by a small amount, but I have a comeback rate and I don't believe there's any offer out there that beats that...at least not for me. Regardless, what's the complaint? You got a discount better than an AP rate! Great! Do you think that AP rates should be the absolute best discount that Disney ever offers? Would you be happier if you were paying more, but at least your AP rate was better than what a non-AP holder was paying? I thought the point was to get the lowest price possible. I don't see what difference it makes which code is used. Disney only promised possible discounts for AP holders. They never said that AP rates would always be the best discount possible.

3. Packages such as the FTP are of no use to AP holders since we already have our park passes. I would just like to see AP discount room rates be comparable to the rates offered for packages that include tickets and code rates

So, Disney shouldn't offer discounts that AP holders can't make use of? Again, I disagree. Up until this new offer, I've never seen a discount for packages that would even come close to what the AP rates are. In fact, it's been my experience that nearly any code of any kind would beat any discounts on packages.

I just don't see a problem with a once in a lifetime offer to guests who are DC members or who are not AP holders. AP holders have special perks that come and go all the time such as special seating, lounges, and other benefits. For at least the past year, there have been significant room discounts. I'm not sure how much more AP holders think they're entitled to along with the lowest admission price possible.

 

[ducklite]

I disagree with the OP.

Disney offers the AP as a bargain for those who will make repeat trips in a year. NO WHERE did they EVER say that other discounts were guaranteed. There were perks thrown in here and there during slower times to entice AP holders to make an aditional trip. But NEVER was the intent to offer ongoing "giving the house away" type of deals.

We have AP's. We buy them because we make 2-4 trips a year, so they are more economical than PH passes. I can't think of the last time that we used any type of discount associated with an AP.

Considering that a lot of AP holders are DVC Members, there is no reason for those people to need room discounts.

For those complaining that it's too expensive to take the family to WDW, you obviously haven't priced out vacations to other places. Unless you are camping in a National Park, WDW is no more than any other vacation destination. I've said it before and I'll say it again. WDW vacations are not an entitlement for every family. Some can't afford it. Some will never be able to afford it. That's a fact of life. Disney is not a charity and is obligated to it's shareholders.

Anne

 

[finnie48]

The glass!

Hi to all,
First of all, thanks, Peachgirl, for saying most of what I would have said. I do think that as a DC member I have been fortunate to have been able to upgrade our upcoming July trip because of the Fairytale pkg. We would have gone anyway, but it is a trip that we can afford only every second or third year and how long we stay depends on how much we have saved over the intervening period of time, so we are grateful for whatever discounts do come our way. I would think that those of you that are able to go WDW 2-6 times a year, either because of your financial situation or your Florida residency - it seems to me FL. residents have the best of deals - would count your blessings, and remember that most of us are not in that situation.

We do like the half-full glass approach, and the idea of taking time to smell the roses. A walk up Main Street always delights us as the details, the cleanliness, and the overall exuberance of the people is most certainly a most positive event. The landscaping, the theming of the rides, the restaurants, the ferry boats of all types: these are all part of the Magic, and the reason we spend the money we do. We are fortunate enough to be able to stay in a deluxe when we do go and are appreciative of that fact. Yes, WDW is expensive, but as one poster said, so are many other places. It costs us well over $100 to take 4 people to a baseball game in NYC ( and what a hassle that is). Here, at the Jersey shore, the motel and cottage rates during the summer are quite comparable to Disney, but are definitely not Disney.

This is not a perfect world, so let us take shake off what disappoints us and enjoy the good things that come our way. I apologize for any soap-box effect of this post. Raise your half-full glass in a toast to Walt and Mickey. Bob

 

[finnie48]

Hi, Ducklite,
Just read your post and I agree with you 100%. Bob

 

[higgin704]

While I agree that Disney owes APers nothing, I would imagine it would be in their best interest not to annoy them either. Here is my point.

We were going at the rate of one time a year before APs. To keep costs down, we stayed offsite one year and the next, bought only 5 day passes although we were at Disney for 8 nights.

Because of the APs we are now averaging two trips per year. Because of APs we spend pretty much everyday in the park. This means we spend pretty much everyday buying a snack or two and maybe a trinket and at least one meal there. Our stays since APs are longer and, because of AP codes, our plan was to stay onsite when we go next (in August though my countdown timer says June, have to figure out how to fix that). If there are no codes, not only will we stay offsite, we will not renew our APs. If we don't renew our APs, we will go only once next year. And when we go, we will have to buy hoppers, probably not equal to the number of days we are staying in our offsite hotel room. Because we won't be in the park as much during our next non-AP stay, we will be spending much less on food and trinkets.

And though I am but one vacationer... I imagine there are a few more like me who may do the same. Many of us increased our time in the parks when we bought APs and, if we have to shell out for the hoppers each visit, many of us may decrease our trips and our length of our stays without them. I would imagine Disney would have to consider this if they would ever decide to drop AP rates.

THAT SAID... I really wish they would do away with this whole mess of garbage and have one fair and consistant price for everyone. No rack rates and no deep discounts, just a normal price. That will probably never happen though

 

[BrianD]

Let me just add that AP rates do still exist. In fact, during the last couple of years they have been available for every time period except Christmas/New Years week & Easter!

The problem is that the day that a non-AP related discount comes out, AP holders (on this board) start throwing a fit because they do not have the best discount, at least not at that moment. Disney has come through at every time period & the AP rates end up being as good as any other code. (This was not the case last year, but then again they released AP rates for September in January)

AP rates will come. They always do. By the way, perhaps the reason they sell out is because of the people that buy one AP just to get the discount, after having already changed codes 2 or 3 times.

 

[peachgirl]

If there are no codes, not only will we stay offsite, we will not renew our APs.

That's my ENTIRE point! There are AP rates...the next dates aren't due out yet. If they don't come, then I suppose AP holders have a complaint, although I'd agree with others that no one is guaranteed discounts. So what's all the complaining about?

As far as one steady rate...they have them. They're called rack rates. Rack rates are normal prices for WDW. They are no different than any other vacation destination. No place that I know of has standard cut rates that are available to anyone and everyone at any time they choose to use them.

It used to be that a WDW vacation was a once in a lifetime trip for most people. To expect them to price their vacations so that everyone can afford to go whenever the mood strikes them is unrealistic. I would think that the second they can do away with the kinds of discounts they're currently giving, they will. They know that the longer they offer them, the more people will expect them. Frankly, I'll be glad when things get back to the way they used to be. I like discounts, but I know why we're getting them, and it's not good.


There's nothing wrong with staying offsite, if that's what you want to do. That's the way to go for those who can't afford to stay onsite or who feel that WDW resorts are too expensive for their budgets. We'll pay whatever we have to in order to stay onsite and we certainly don't expect WDW to price their resorts to compete with offsite motels.

Btw, I'm an AP holder too...we've got 5 PAP's.

 

[sm4987]

I love the discounts when they come out, but when I purchased the AP's, I had no idea they had resort discounts. I was going last year for 12 nights and it was cheaper than the park hopper's so I brought them. Then I discovered this board and realized they offered discounts. It doesn't matter to me. I will take a general code, a passholder code, or pay rack rate if I have to. I just want to go to Disney. I don't feel left out at all. I just get thrilled when they do offer them to the passholders!!

 

[higgin704]

Originally posted by peachgirl
That's my ENTIRE point! There are AP rates...the next dates aren't due out yet. If they don't come, then I suppose AP holders have a complaint, although I'd agree with others that no one is guaranteed discounts. So what's all the complaining about?

Peachgirl,

Entirely true. Please note though that my post says "If". "If" there were to be no codes, we would stay offsite and not renew. Not because they seem to come out progressively later. But "if" they discontinued them.

My post was to iterate two points. First, that the (it feels like) ever increasing delay in posting AP rates tends to irritate some of us, whether we have the right to be irritated or not. My second point related to those who expressed concern that Disney may discontinue AP rates and how that would perhaps not be the best decision on their part.

But you are absolutely correct. They do continue to have AP rates to this day, they just release them a bit later.

 

[higgin704]

Originally posted by peachgirl
That's my ENTIRE point! There are AP rates...the next dates aren't due out yet. If they don't come, then I suppose AP holders have a complaint, although I'd agree with others that no one is guaranteed discounts. So what's all the complaining about?

As far as one steady rate...they have them. They're called rack rates. Rack rates are normal prices for WDW. They are no different than any other vacation destination. No place that I know of has standard cut rates that are available to anyone and everyone at any time they choose to use them.

It used to be that a WDW vacation was a once in a lifetime trip for most people. To expect them to price their vacations so that everyone can afford to go whenever the mood strikes them is unrealistic. I would think that the second they can do away with the kinds of discounts they're currently giving, they will. They know that the longer they offer them, the more people will expect them. Frankly, I'll be glad when things get back to the way they used to be. I like discounts, but I know why we're getting them, and it's not good.


There's nothing wrong with staying offsite, if that's what you want to do. That's the way to go for those who can't afford to stay onsite or who feel that WDW resorts are too expensive for their budgets. We'll pay whatever we have to in order to stay onsite and we certainly don't expect WDW to price their resorts to compete with offsite motels.

Btw, I'm an AP holder too...we've got 5 PAP's.

Peachgirl,
A couple of other points regarding the second part of your post.

While I agree that they shouldn't have to offer deep discounts, the rack rates seem hardly fair as well. The cost for what you are getting is disproportionate to many people. And while your comeback may be "If you can't afford it, don't stay there", my response would be, many aren't. Many are now taking advantage of the lower prices and larger rooms that they can have just minutes from Disney. I believe this is part of the reason that they have had to resort to the deep discounts... Competition. While it is nice that you are able to "pay whatever we have to in order to stay onsite ", this is not the case for many, many people who come to Disney. I think they are starting to realize that, for many (not all), the choice between $99 at an All Stars and getting the Hilton in DD for much less off of priceline is not a difficult decision. Disney has to adjust or suffer the consequences. YES, I realize that there are many who feel that they will pay hundreds of dollars to be onsite and YES, I realize that those people will continue to pay regardless of discounts. But I think you must also conceed that many will not, and will spend their money elsewhere. If you were Disney, what would you do? Run half-empty hotels?

 

[BrianD]

I know this is off-topic, but let me just congratulate each of us who has posted on this thread. While it has been very opinionated, none of us have lost control or resorted to personal attacks. Up to this point, it has remained very civilized. And we're almost through 4 pages here!

Anyway, just wanted to play moderator's pet for a moment. Now back to the debate!

 

[Jen D]

It used to be that a WDW vacation was a once in a lifetime trip for most people. To expect them to price their vacations so that everyone can afford to go whenever the mood strikes them is unrealistic.

I think Disney has caught up to the reality that they have to market to people who want to be repeat visitors. They have four major parks, two water parks and all the rest of it in the World to fill and they can't depend on people scrimping and saving to pay for one vacation in their lifetime. It is an improvement to make WDW a regular, affordable vacation destination.

They are keeping up with the competition, which includes not just other Orlando destinations like Universal and Sea World, but all the new Carribean and Hawaiian"super-resorts" that cater to the family audience. They've lost some ground and now they are trying to pick it up.

 

[TeresaNJ]

Peachgirl, I used code AXA to book Wilderness Lodge at $154.99/night, tax included. I couldn't get an AP rate at Wildnerness Lodge. Whether they were sold out, or just didn't have any, I don't know. I do know that my rate is better than the AP rates that are out now until July 3.

Up until last summer I never had a difficult time finding an AP rate for when I wanted to go to Disney. Ever since then, while I've found AP rates, it's not been where I wanted to stay or for the times I could go. Last November my mom and I had to stay at Fort Wilderness Cabins, as that is all that was left with an AP rate, and I booked the trip the first week of September, I think. Actually, the cabins are very nice, and I'm glad I had the opportunity to experience it.

To the person that commented that DVC owners don't need AP rates anyway, you are mistaken. We don't all have a ton of points, and I prefer to pay for some of our short trips when it's just my husband and I, rather than use all my points, so that I have them left to take a larger group of family members. So yes, AP or any discounts are important to DVC owners also.

Also, peachgirl, I never said Disney shouldn't offer discounts to non AP holders. I said I wish Disney would have had their AP rates comparable to the FTP rates that are out right now. Non AP holders can always go out and get an AP if they like the discount offered, but AP holders can't take advantage of something like the FTP because we already have our passes. I am THRILLED for the people who can take advantage of the FTP; if I didn't have APs, I would go for it too, but I can't, because I HAVE APs. Do you see the difference? YOU can buy an AP to get a good rate when the AP codes come out, but you can't take advantage of packages that include passes once you are an AP holder.

I'm not asking that the AP discount be the best discount possible, I said that I wish the AP discount was as good as the FTP discount. But it isn't, so oh well.

One thing I do know, I'm not arguing with you all about it anymore. I'm not looking for a fight, I just wanted to explain my sentiments.

 

[PatriciaH]

Originally posted by ducklite

For those complaining that it's too expensive to take the family to WDW, you obviously haven't priced out vacations to other places. Unless you are camping in a National Park, WDW is no more than any other vacation destination. I've said it before and I'll say it again. WDW vacations are not an entitlement for every family. Some can't afford it. Some will never be able to afford it. That's a fact of life. Disney is not a charity and is obligated to it's shareholders.

Anne

I just wanted to say that I am a travel agent and there are a LOT of places much cheaper than Disney World out there! I love WDW but right now we have cruises for 7-10 nights starting at $299 (remember meals and entertainment are included on a cruise), 4 star all-inclusives in Mexico and Punta Cana for $589 for 7-nights (air, hotel, all meals, all drinks, sports, tips, taxes), Europe is at $399 for 6 nights air and hotel (London, Paris.) Check it out if you think Disney is too much $$$$-you may find a beautiful beach resort for a fraction of the cost!

 

[melomouse]

Hello Again -

Yes, Brian, it has been civilized on this thread. A pleasure!

But I must be missing something somewhere... is this about AP holders "loyalty" to Disney? Or the fact the..."We bought "em, now Disney had better make us get the bang for the buck at onsite properties"???

As I posted earlier, and others have added, some only purchased AP's because they made financial sense for our vacation/lifestyle.family needs. I never thought,"Gee, what a great deal on this AP - now I hope I can stay on-property, too". AP is for PARK admission. Because other sites advocate AP purchase for room discounts doesn't mean you are going to buy one just because THEY say so. Or maybe some folks do...

In fact, having the AP makes the offsite choice more feasible for some because there's no worry about time getting to and fro parks or intense worry over park hours.

Disney owes me clean, magical parks and friendly delightful CM's. I, too, love to get a deal and from time to time lapse into obsessions(online 2 hrs. before last trip to save $15 on the rental car!), but I can't afford to lose time, sleep or money for calls obsessing over how the big, bad Disney is not being"loyal", "nice" or "fair" to me by releasing special deals when I need or want them. Life is much too short, folks!