Annual Dues, resale

jerseyduke

Home is just where you stay when not at WDW
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I know it is going to vary, but if you are buying a contract for a UY late in the year, say, Aug or Sept. and you are not getting any of the 2015 points, only the 2016 points, would you expect to pay all the the dues for 2016? Or would you expect them to be prorated (August - Decemeber) Since you are not getting any usable points until the new use year?
 
I would plan on paying the 2016 maintenance fees. It's all negotiable, but this has become customary.
 
Dues are billed and paid by the calendar year not the UY. If you are getting points in 2016, I would expect to pay the 2016 dues.

:earsboy: Bill
 
I know it is going to vary, but if you are buying a contract for a UY late in the year, say, Aug or Sept. and you are not getting any of the 2015 points, only the 2016 points, would you expect to pay all the the dues for 2016? Or would you expect them to be prorated (August - Decemeber) Since you are not getting any usable points until the new use year?
The way Disney would do it is to pro-rate the dues for 2016 from the date you get your first points. If you purchase an Aug UY and there are no points until Aug 2016, you would pay 5/12ths of the dues for 2016. (Disney calculates it down to the number of days so Disney would bill you for 153 days worth of dues, a fraction over 5 months' worth.) I would not be willing to pay full dues for 2016 in this situation unless I was getting the contract for a very good price to compensate.

ETA: Sometimes sellers (or brokers) will dig their heels in over the dues reimbursement but will negotiate on price. You can structure your offer to make sure the total price you pay for the contract and dues hits your target number.

For example, if the 2016 dues are $6/point you would be overpaying by 7/12ths of $6, or $3.50 per point. You could try to negotiate your deal to get back that $3.50 per point on your contract price. (Obviously the numbers will be different depending on the resort you are purchasing.)
 
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The way Disney would do it is to pro-rate the dues for 2016 from the date you get your first points. If you purchase an Aug UY and there are no points until Aug 2016, you would pay 5/12ths of the dues for 2016. (Disney calculates it down to the number of days so Disney would bill you for 153 days worth of dues, a fraction over 5 months' worth.)

?

I thought Disney prorated based on when you buy, not your UY. Say you buy July 1, then you owe dues for 6 months.

Laura
 
?

I thought Disney prorated based on when you buy, not your UY. Say you buy July 1, then you owe dues for 6 months.

Laura
Dues are pro-rated from the later of: your purchase date, the date you get your first set of points, or the occupancy date of the Unit you purchase (applies to new construction). So if you purchase on July 1, 2016 with a UY of, say, October and your first points are the October 2015 points, your dues are pro-rated from July 1 (your purchase date). If the purchase date and UY are the same but your first set of points will be Oct 2016 points, the dues are pro-rated from Oct 1, 2016 (when you get your first set of points.)

If you purchase directly from Disney they normally start you out with current UY points (Oct 2015 UY points for a July 1, 2016 purchase date). But depending on the resort you purchase, they might be out of Oct 2015 UY points so your first points will be Oct 2016 UY points. This can happen if you purchase an add-on at the very end of your UY, very close to the start date of your next UY. It can also apply if you purchase a new resort where they simply didn't offer points for the current UY.

The OP stated that there were no 2015 UY points left in the contracts being considered so in that case, the pro-rated dues should begin with the start of the 2016 UY.
 
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I know it is going to vary, but if you are buying a contract for a UY late in the year, say, Aug or Sept. and you are not getting any of the 2015 points, only the 2016 points, would you expect to pay all the the dues for 2016? Or would you expect them to be prorated (August - Decemeber) Since you are not getting any usable points until the new use year?
Assuming all points for the UY are intact and usable, the neutral position is you pay a prorated amount equal to the # of months left in the UY that calendar year. Assuming say Dec 16 with all 16 points and no 15 UY points, paying all of the dues would mean one is overpaying by 11/12 of the dues. Now none of the regular companies look at it this way and I have my theories as to why but in reality this is how it's done. The way to look at it is what would you pay if you bought direct in the same circumstances. Just realize this situation and account for the extra costs as part of your overall savings.
 
Dues are paid by UY, not calendar year. You just pay them by calendar year.

EG: VGF opens Oct 2013, closes January 2064.
Assuming all points for the UY are intact and usable, the neutral position is you pay a prorated amount equal to the # of months left in the UY that calendar year. Assuming say Dec 16 with all 16 points and no 15 UY points, paying all of the dues would mean one is overpaying by 11/12 of the dues. Now none of the regular companies look at it this way and I have my theories as to why but in reality this is how it's done. The way to look at it is what would you pay if you bought direct in the same circumstances. Just realize this situation and account for the extra costs as part of your overall savings.


That is exactly how I saw it. So I was a little shocked when my offer was rejected. However, the price per point is pretty good.....It is not a price that would breeze through ROFR.
 
Dues are paid by UY, not calendar year. You just pay them by calendar year.
Said another way, the dues are paid by calendar year but you need to look at how that overlaps with the particular UY. For an Oct UY, the annual dues I pay for 2016 cover the last 9 months of my 2015 UY (Jan 1 - Sep 30, 2016) and the first 3 months of my 2016 UY (Oct 1 - Dec 31, 2016). So if I bought a contract from Disney today and didn't get points until Oct 1, 2016, they would charge me 92 days worth of dues for calendar year 2016 to cover Oct 1 - Dec 31, 2016.

That is exactly how I saw it. So I was a little shocked when my offer was rejected. However, the price per point is pretty good.....It is not a price that would breeze through ROFR.
What really matters is the total price you pay for the contract and dues reimbursement. If they are digging their heels in about the dues reimbursement, make an offer on the contract that is a bit lower than you had originally planned to account for the $3-$4/point of over-payment of the dues. Based on what you posted, it sounds like this contract is priced on the low end so perhaps when you factor in full dues reimbursement you would still be getting a good deal.
 
I know it is going to vary, but if you are buying a contract for a UY late in the year, say, Aug or Sept. and you are not getting any of the 2015 points, only the 2016 points, would you expect to pay all the the dues for 2016? Or would you expect them to be prorated (August - Decemeber) Since you are not getting any usable points until the new use year?
I got lucky. We just bought a resale with a Dec u/y with the 2015 points and they already paid the MFs. I have noticed that a lot of the december u/y MFs were paid on the listings.

So after reading the above. I am currently paying 2016 MFs for my Dec 2016 points not my 2015 points right?
 
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I got lucky. We just bought a resale with a Dec u/y with the 2015 points and they already paid the MFs. I have noticed that a lot of the december u/y MFs were paid on the listings.

So after reading the above. I am currently paying 2016 MFs for my Dec 2016 points not my 2015 points right?
With a December UY, the 2016 annual dues covers 11/12ths of the Dec 2015 UY points and 1/12 of the Dec 2016 UY points. If you bought a contract with all Dec 2015 points available and you are paying the 2016 dues but not the 2015 dues, then you got a month worth of dues for free (for the month of Dec 2015).
 
With a December UY, the 2016 annual dues covers 11/12ths of the Dec 2015 UY points and 1/12 of the Dec 2016 UY points. If you bought a contract with all Dec 2015 points available and you are paying the 2016 dues but not the 2015 dues, then you got a month worth of dues for free (for the month of Dec 2015).
Points that are restricted (banked/borrowed) and point that have less time left in the UY all have less value. It's a double whammy for banked borrowed with the clock ticking on the UY and even worse if the banking deadline has passed for current UY points.
 
Why aren't we considering what the dues are on the points? I'm buying a resale, and that's how our contract is structured. I pay the dues on the 2016 points that I'm getting, and not on the ones already used. Doesn't matter what the UY is, the dues are paid per point.

This whole conversation just seems needlessly complicated. Yes, when paying your dues, Disney makes you do it annually, but that's mostly for their accounting purposes. For all intents and purposes, you're still just paying $X per point for the year.
 
Why aren't we considering what the dues are on the points? I'm buying a resale, and that's how our contract is structured. I pay the dues on the 2016 points that I'm getting, and not on the ones already used. Doesn't matter what the UY is, the dues are paid per point.

This whole conversation just seems needlessly complicated. Yes, when paying your dues, Disney makes you do it annually, but that's mostly for their accounting purposes. For all intents and purposes, you're still just paying $X per point for the year.
It's only complicated because the resale companies take the incorrect stance "you get the points you pay the dues" and to do it correctly is an uphill battle. How a given person wants to look at it or handle it is up to them. The neutral position is as I posted above and that is factual. It's important to know because it can easily be a $5-10 per point swing on the price of a given resale and it does affect the actual value of the resale as does the points availability in general. The easy way to look at it is what would you pay if you bought from Disney. This will give you the same answer as above unless one buys mid calendar year but gets the current UY points in which case Disney gives an added benefit of lower dues because they have less life left.
 
It's only complicated because the resale companies take the incorrect stance "you get the points you pay the dues" and to do it correctly is an uphill battle. How a given person wants to look at it or handle it is up to them. The neutral position is as I posted above and that is factual. It's important to know because it can easily be a $5-10 per point swing on the price of a given resale and it does affect the actual value of the resale as does the points availability in general. The easy way to look at it is what would you pay if you bought from Disney. This will give you the same answer as above unless one buys mid calendar year but gets the current UY points in which case Disney gives an added benefit of lower dues because they have less life left.
What's the benefit of the sellers paying additional annual dues, why not just offer X dollars less per point to make up for the dues?
 
What's the benefit of the sellers paying additional annual dues, why not just offer X dollars less per point to make up for the dues?
It's not a question of benefit. Obviously the more a seller pays the cheaper for the buyer and vice versa. It's an uphill battle where the usual resale companies are concerned but it's helpful to know what you are and are not getting. Most resale buyers overpay where dues are concerned, you just have to take that into account in the overall process just like you did with closing when Disney didn't charge closing. My point was for the buyer to understand the neutral position, basically what the actual dues are and should be on the points they're getting and to be aware that the "you get the points you pay the dues" position almost always means one is overpaying by as much as almost a years worth of dues in some cases. That can be substantial. Resale should still be a savings for most situations so it's more useful in comparing resales but can also be helpful in considering the real costs and real savings one is getting compared to retail, esp for higher end options.
 
Got it. I thought I was missing a strategy to get the points for a lower price. Not paying dues on points your not getting makes total sense though. I misunderstood.
 















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