Annoyed by potential travel disruptions

[kdonnel]

Disclaimer: First world problems for sure. Just my own personal pity party should one or both events happen.

On to the annoyance...

My wife and I have a trip coming up in a little over a week to Las Vegas and Zion National Park.

Well we hope we do.

I knew there is the potential for disruption in air travel as there might be a government shutdown that starts just prior to our trip. I am not so sure that those required to work for free will be as forthcoming with the free work as expected. When less than the normally scheduled number of air traffic controllers or TSA employees come to work, there will be disruptions. There have been issues in the past when this has happened. I completely understand why there might be staffing issues so plan to arrive very early to the airport if the shutdown happens.

Another part of my first world problems is that Zion National Park will probably experience more than just a disruption. This is still peak travel time for Zion and they do not allow personal vehicles in most of the park and instead require everyone to ride a free shuttle. Not sure what they will do if Park Rangers are furloughed. I know in the last shutdown some of the national parks remained open with closed bathrooms and trash cans removed. Does anyone know how Zion National Park handled the last shutdowns? My wife has already said she is not going to Zion if the bathrooms are closed.

As a backup we planned to just remain in Las Vegas for the entire trip if Zion is closed.

But.....

Today I learned that the Las Vegas Culinary Union is having a vote to approve a potential strike. I guess a strike could occur as soon as tomorrow based on today's vote but at this point both sides are still interested in negotiating so no matter the outcome of the vote today there will more than likely not be a strike tomorrow but a week from now???? A big part of what we do in Las Vegas is eat. I hope the employees get what they want without a strike.

So if both the shutdown and the strike happen what should my wife and I do? Gamble all the money we would have spent on dining? Do we drive to LA and go to Disneyland? I guess cancelling the whole trip is an option but we used a 2-for-1 flight voucher and would lose all the money associated with the airfare.

Ugh.

 

[NotUrsula]

Ugh. My condolences on dealing with such a multilevel PITA.

My first thought re: the outdoor component was state parks. I'm not familiar with the area, but perhaps there are some state parks that would be an alternative option, maybe in both Nevada &/or eastern California?

I looked around, and I did find this; a guide to foodie destinations in the Southwest: https://www.eater.com/2019/1/23/18177250/southwest-travel-guide-food-restaurants

 

[LuvOrlando]

Uggh, that stinks, what rotten timing. Honestly, if it was me and I could back out I would postpone instead of playing the odds. I wouldn't spend $500+ on meals and hotel knowing the places I wanted to go might also be ruined just to avoid losing $200, I'd cut my losses.

If you do go good luck with things.

 

[TinkAgainU]

So if both the shutdown and the strike happen what should my wife and I do? Gamble all the money we would have spent on dining? Do we drive to LA and go to Disneyland? I guess cancelling the whole trip is an option but we used a 2-for-1 flight voucher and would lose all the money associated with the airfare.

You did not post this in the most open-minded group. I'd already be looking at Anaheim hotels with refundable deposits lol! (Keeping in mind you still need Disney reservations for any dates coming).

 

[HeatherC]

Ugggh sorry you are even having to think about this. I “think” they will come to an agreement in the last second of the deadline but who the heck knows.

Would the airline let you reschedule or change cities if you were to pay a change fee? At least then you wouldn’t lose all the airfare money.


Road trip from Vegas? Scottsdale is supposed to be nice with lots to do. Palm Springs?

I will keep my fingers crossed for you! Sending good vibes!

 

[jalapeno_pretzel]

Travel these days is a gamble. If it isn't wildfires and extreme heatwaves, it's pilot strikes, culinary strikes, and government shutdowns.

Many of our trips within the US revolve around the National Park system, so travel coinciding with a shutdown has long been a concern of mine. What I read is that because there is no staffing, most restrooms with plumbing are going to be closed. Pit toilets could remain open until they become unusable (pretty sure that wouldn't be pleasant). With such a popular & high traffic park as Zion, I imagine that will occur very quickly .. if there are any portions open at all. I doubt you'd want to drive the Zion Valley road with a personal vehicle even if it's open for that. There has been such limited parking accessibility there for decades - even back in the 90s they were using the shuttle system. Even if it's open, finding parking in that situation may be impossible. I could also see a gridlock type situation occurring, with no staff or public safety to direct people. I'd be pretty surprised if they had that road open at all.

I would look at the State Park idea. If you're willing to drive a little further, Kodachrome State Park in UT is really good. Also Antelope Canyon in AZ is owned and operated by a Native American tribe, so that could be a possibility. Also Red Rock Canyon National Conservation Area ... while managed by BLM, I would guess the scenic loop road would stay open - there's lots of hiking and overlooks, and is close to Vegas.

I hope it will be resolved and no shutdown will happen, but I would definitely work on Plan B for your trip!

 

[Kestryl]

When we were looking at possible fall trips, we were considering hitting up some national parks. But I'm a contractor, and I've seen this game play out, so we decided not to base a trip around them. We're still taking a risk with flights and TSA though, so check back in a few weeks to see if that came to bite me in the butt (I expect it will)...

You should prepare for a shutdown.

Regarding Zion, the governor of Utah is claiming the state will pick up the costs to keep the parks open. But that's a wide range there- it's doubtful they'll be fully open. So the question is what will they be paying for. Is it gates open, everyone for themselves? Do they cover trash and restrooms? Probably not ranger programs. Utah took over in the 2018 shutdown, but allegedly trash cans were still overflowing, restrooms were gross, and it was just total chaos. (Outside of Utah, Joshua Tree NP was half destroyed.)

I went to Zion in January- when people are not visiting and when the shuttle doesn't run. And even then, parking was incredibly difficult.

As an alternate, you could try state parks. Keep in mind they may be more crowded given the NP shutdown issues. Valley of Fire in Nevada is particularly pretty at sunrise and sunset.

If you're interested in surreal, interactive art, check out Meow Wolf in Vegas.

(Also, this is a soapbox moment, but if you're frustrated with the impacts a shutdown has on your life, please speak out about it. I don't know why, but people have forgotten how terrible the shutdown was back in 2018, and that wasn't even a full shutdown.)

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

When we were caught up in the FAA Furloughs in 2013 it was not every single flight impacted. We were coming back from St. Lucia and the plane that was our plane leaving St. Lucia was late thus making our flight late, but that didn't mean that every flight experienced issues so I couldn't say that aspect is definitive just by the virtue of a shutdown.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Disclaimer: First world problems for sure. Just my own personal pity party should one or both events happen.

On to the annoyance...

My wife and I have a trip coming up in a little over a week to Las Vegas and Zion National Park.

Well we hope we do.

I knew there is the potential for disruption in air travel as there might be a government shutdown that starts just prior to our trip. I am not so sure that those required to work for free will be as forthcoming with the free work as expected. When less than the normally scheduled number of air traffic controllers or TSA employees come to work, there will be disruptions. There have been issues in the past when this has happened. I completely understand why there might be staffing issues so plan to arrive very early to the airport if the shutdown happens.

Another part of my first world problems is that Zion National Park will probably experience more than just a disruption. This is still peak travel time for Zion and they do not allow personal vehicles in most of the park and instead require everyone to ride a free shuttle. Not sure what they will do if Park Rangers are furloughed. I know in the last shutdown some of the national parks remained open with closed bathrooms and trash cans removed. Does anyone know how Zion National Park handled the last shutdowns? My wife has already said she is not going to Zion if the bathrooms are closed.

As a backup we planned to just remain in Las Vegas for the entire trip if Zion is closed.

But.....

Today I learned that the Las Vegas Culinary Union is having a vote to approve a potential strike. I guess a strike could occur as soon as tomorrow based on today's vote but at this point both sides are still interested in negotiating so no matter the outcome of the vote today there will more than likely not be a strike tomorrow but a week from now???? A big part of what we do in Las Vegas is eat. I hope the employees get what they want without a strike.

So if both the shutdown and the strike happen what should my wife and I do? Gamble all the money we would have spent on dining? Do we drive to LA and go to Disneyland? I guess cancelling the whole trip is an option but we used a 2-for-1 flight voucher and would lose all the money associated with the airfare.

Ugh.

Sorry you're having to potentially deal with this. We've been there in the past with trips, one in particular was a possible government shutdown when we visited Normandy, France. If they'd shut down we wouldn't have been able to see the U.S Cemetery there, which would have been awful. Thankfully they kicked the can down the road a couple of months on that shutdown. We've also been in Europe and had to change our plans because the railroad workers were on strike.

It feels like we're a lot more like Europe this year for sure....striking employees are everywhere....and a looking government shutdown. I hope it all works out for you and that you have a nice vacation!

 

[kdonnel]

We've been there in the past with trips, one in particular was a possible government shutdown when we visited Normandy, France. If they'd shut down we wouldn't have been able to see the U.S Cemetery there, which would have been awful.

Twice when visiting Puerto Rico it was during a government shutdown. Many of the touristy places are national parks and were closed.

School holidays just happen to line up with government shutdowns.

The strike is a new variable.

 

[StephPlum]

Giving another alternative suggestion. Valley of Fire SP is outside Las Vegas and is terrific.

I am not sure how services will be but Utah already pledged to pay to keep their NPs open. As others have said Kodachrome SP is a good option, just driving route 12 and Escalante Petrified Forest State Park is nice.

I feel your pain. We’re planning to leave Saturday for Oregon and Crater Lake NP. I fear it will be closed or open but no services (ie bathrooms). That doesn’t sound pleasant. Already making alternative plans.

 

[bcla]

In some previous federal government shutdowns, the National Park Service said that visitors were not allowed and anyone entering could be cited for entering a closed site. There were some oddball areas like Death Valley, which has a state highway running through it, and where there are no entrance stations. If one was just passing through it was fine even during the shutdown. Also, many of the amenities in the park were privately owned inholdings not subject to federal shutdowns. But the roads are still closed due to the flooding in August.

Not sure how they handle it, but different shutdowns are treated differently by the Secretary of the Interior. Emergency services employees are still allowed to work, so law enforcement rangers and US Park Police might still be able to write citations for violating closure orders. Not sure about a place like the Presidio of San Francisco where it’s self funding by law. Looked up how worked for the 2018 shutdown. I think Muir Woods can operate with a local natural history association at the entrance station rather than park rangers.

https://www.nps.gov/goga/learn/news/government-shutdown-2018.htm​

Areas that are open include all Presidio Trust areas (they are operated under a different fiscal authority), the Presidio Visitor Center, open areas of Ocean Beach, Crissy Field, Lands End, and the Marin Headlands (Point Bonita Lighthouse, Nike Missle Site and visitor center are closed). Due to partner agreements, Muir Woods National Monument and Alcatraz Island are open. Muir Woods National Monument requires reservation for parking or shuttle , and entrance fees will be collected. Park visitors with Day Tour tickets will be able to visit Alcatraz Island. Automatic refunds will be given for "Behind The Scenes Tours" or "Night Tours" on Alcatraz Island.​

But around here there’s the possibility that San Francisco Fleet Week might be cancelled.

https://sfstandard.com/2023/09/26/san-francisco-fleet-week-government-shutdown-cancel-event/

 

[focusondisney]

We’re in a similar situation @kdonnel. We have a trip to Washington DC planned starting October 8th. My husband retired in April so we decided to just drive down this year, so at least we don’t have to deal with flight disruptions. But most of the things we planned to do will probably be closed. Luckily we have until the 7th to decide what to do. Here’s hoping everything gets settled before too much of the country gets disrupted.

 

[dvcgirl67]

We’re in a similar situation @kdonnel. We have a trip to Washington DC planned starting October 8th. My husband retired in April so we decided to just drive down this year, so at least we don’t have to deal with flight disruptions. But most of the things we planned to do will probably be closed. Luckily we have until the 7th to decide what to do. Here’s hoping everything gets settled before too much of the country gets disrupted.

Oh no…hope your vacation isn’t delayed. Hopefully they’ll get it sorted out.

 

[georgina]

Yeah, lots of people in the DC area will be working without pay, including my son-in-law in an essential federal agency, so we’re not happy either. I think there will definitely be a shut down, question is how long it will last. Got no advice for the OP, but I think DC will be a mess.

 

[princesscinderella]

We were in Philly & NYC when a government shutdown was looming, we toured the Liberty Bell and Indepence hall the day before it was closed due to the shut down. The Statue of Liberty was closed when we made it to NY and we did a boat tour and got great pictures of lady liberty with no one on the island, sad we couldn’t tour it up close though.

 

[sam_gordon]

Only halfway joking... if they don't pass a budget, can we file a class action lawsuit against Congress? Passing a budget is one of their PRIMARY jobs. They will have failed to do so.

 

[Marrila]

Yeah, lots of people in the DC area will be working without pay, including my son-in-law in an essential federal agency, so we’re not happy either. I think there will definitely be a shut down, question is how long it will last. Got no advice for the OP, but I think DC will be a mess.

It is awful. Your son in law will get paid what they will owe him, it just may take a little time to do so. Let's hope this mess is either averted or ends quickly.

 

[Skywalker3]

I would love to start planning a trip out West soon, and Zion and Bryce Canyon and Grand Canyon are high on the lists. I would hate to make these once in a lifetime, or once in a very long while, kinds of trips and then have it disrupted so much. Haven't been out that way, but always surprised at how nice the state parks can end up being. As others have mentioned, Valley of Fire is really nice. I hope yours will get to go on as planned.
DH and I are both federal workers watching with great interest to see if we'll get paid after this week......we've been through this before, and it's very, very stressful. Not even sure I'll be considered essential at this time of the year. We have a vacation planned in 2 weeks. Each agency is different as far as the amount of emergency funding they might have. Like we've not heard yet, if it would be maybe days, or weeks, or longer, or none....we're just watching Congress like everyone else.

 

[bcla]

I would love to start planning a trip out West soon, and Zion and Bryce Canyon and Grand Canyon are high on the lists. I would hate to make these once in a lifetime, or once in a very long while, kinds of trips and then have it disrupted so much. Haven't been out that way, but always surprised at how nice the state parks can end up being. As others have mentioned, Valley of Fire is really nice. I hope yours will get to go on as planned.
DH and I are both federal workers watching with great interest to see if we'll get paid after this week......we've been through this before, and it's very, very stressful. Not even sure I'll be considered essential at this time of the year. We have a vacation planned in 2 weeks. Each agency is different as far as the amount of emergency funding they might have. Like we've not heard yet, if it would be maybe days, or weeks, or longer, or none....we're just watching Congress like everyone else.

Red Canyon was pretty nice to at least drive through when I was visiting Bryce Canyon, but that's Forest Service and who knows about potential shutdowns. However, a lot of national forests tend to have numbered highways going through them and they can't shut those down.

But as for shutting down national parks, that isn't specifically required, but in some previous shutdowns, closure was ordered citing resource protection and visitor safety. I believe during the shutdown of 2018-2019 it wasn't, but many visitors found bathrooms closed and garbage and porta-potties just overflowing.

https://www.outsideonline.com/outdo...oming-heres-what-it-means-for-national-parks/​

There’s no rule or law stating that National Parks be closed to visitors during a shutdown.​

** ** ** ** **​

The results of that order were not good. Even while maintenance crews and Rangers were furloughed, park visitation boomed. Trash and toilets overflowed, sensitive ecological areas were damaged, artifacts were stolen, and people died. An agency-wide deferred maintenance backlog that already stood at a hefty $11.6 billion before the shutdown swelled to $22.3 billion by 2022.​

​

In order to keep the parks open during that shutdown, that contingency plan used previously collected, but as yet unspent entrance fees to fund limited park operations. Federal agencies aren’t supposed to use unappropriated income to pay for costs that should come from congressionally-approved budgets, and in September 2019, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) ruled the action illegal.​