Animal Kingdom's declinig attendence article....

Does US/IOA count guests the same way WDW do, or do they count you twice if you hit both parks ?

Weren't AK's opening year numbers in the 10 mil range ? That was considered a failure ? What was Disney expecting them to be ? What were MGM's first year numbers ?

I'm not trying to make any point,just curious of the numbers.
 
>>>They are estimated based on last's year's estimates and adjusted by "talking" to people in nearby hotels and general travel industry buzz.<<<

As easy as it is to get attendance figures leaked I really can't believe that they would resort to such medieval ways of estimating attendance.

However, that would explain why DCA's numbers have been so inflated (I have been told and have read online elsewhere that DCA's opening year was approximately 4.175 million, and have read "rumors" that the park's second year didn't even break 3.5 million. I haven't really seen any confirmation of that number, but a lot of pieces do fit a puzzle of that size).

But on the other hand, our friend Marcie is over at MouseInfo claiming that DCA had year-end tallies of 5.5 million and 5 million, and that attendance is doing "spectacular" these days.

Oh yes, what a can of worms can be opened when you start quoting attendance figures...
 
i think the disapointment witk dak's initial attendance was that they thought it would make people stay an extra day and add on to their vacatiins, but it didn't - a week was still a week, and a long weekend was still a long weekend - so Dak's attendance cannibalized from the other three parks. The same sort of thing was happening on a smaller scale at usf - usf attendanvce dropped whilje ioaa wenht up as it caught on. Disneyland, though seems to be an exception, to no one's surprise, i'm sure.
 
Seeing how most families take 8 day/7 nite vacations could Disney realistically think people would add a day ? I could understand expecting a sizeable surge from Florida residents, especially those within an hour or two drive.

I also found earlier numbers for AK: 6 mil for partial 1998 year, 8.8 peak for 1999.
 

I'm not sure most people take an 8 day 7 night vacation. I think there are plenty of people who cut their time at disney to 5 days and 4 nights...then either going home or going elsewhere. A good example would be conventioneers who have a spouse or their families in tow. Sure the corporation paid for the hotel and theme park tickets but if there was enough to see the family might extend their trip to a full week to see it all.

Many people can see enough of Disney on the 5/4 plan to feel its enough. My game plan used to be...1 day MK, 1 day Epcot, 1 day Epcot/MGM then use the last day to hit what I missed. The way AK is right now I can still do this (assuming you bypass most of the shows). AK doesn't have enough "must do" (notice I didn't say "must see") stuff to force people to expend almost an entire day there. MGM has the same problem.

PS. Disney's scheduling is going a long way towards forcing the use of a fifth (or fourth) day. Both MK and Epcot were useful for offsetting MGM and AK when they were both open until at least 9pm. Now...there is just the World Showcase (obviously I don't travel in the seasons with the late hours).
 
Why do you think it took them five years to add two carnival rides, some carny games and a store-bought rollercoaster.
They also added a raft ride and an additional animal walkthrough, but I don't really understand your point. Is it your position that when DCA added stuff, it's because attendence was off, but when AK didn't add stuff, it's because attendence was off?
 
The Asia section (the raft ride and the walkthrough) was supposed to have been an opening day area but was pushed back a year due to budget cuts. The Beastly Kingdom area was also supposed to have been open on Day One, but it was pushed back to Year Three for budget as well (and then killed when the attendance wasn’t anywhere near what they had hoped for). Several other large additions, such as large wooden coaster for Dinoland and the completion of the Conversation Station were also cancelled after the park opened. These moves were all down to reduce the capital investment in the park since the original investment was now going to take substantially longer to recoup.

So in place of those major expansions we get very inexpensive stop-gap measures. The Dino-Rama addition was done specifically to counter the complaint that there wasn’t enough for children to do (the games financially justified to expansion). The new rollercoaster has been the subject of a bidding war between all four parks for a couple years now. Animal Kingdom gets it because it is the park in most trouble. Magic Kingdom will need to wait for their Villain/Fire Mountain, Epcot will miss its Matterhorn and Disney/MGM won’t get their Coney Island Express.

California Adventure followed a similar path – but the problems there are more serious. Attendance was down so ‘Armageddon’ and ‘Rock ‘n Rollercoaster’ were cancelled to reduce the investment. Then attendance really went south and the “kids complaint” surfaced again so the cheap ‘Millionaire’ was put in and some (they really are) shopping mall rides created ‘Bugs Land’. But with attendance still plummeting they pulled out ‘Tower of Terror’ – but mostly because it’s cheaper to build it while they are building the same ride at DisneySea and Disney Studios Paris. Again the pattern is to spend as little as possible to “solve” complaints about the park.

A park needs expansion when it has too many people for its facilities. Disney/MGM Studios needed expansion because it was so small when it opened (and none of those silly “they always build small and fill them out” spin lines again – that wasn’t the case). Obviously neither Animal Kingdom nor California Adventure have problems with crowds. It’s impossible to financial justify them based on the current admissions revenue and no one at Disney currently thinks about actually enticing the guests to visit (like a major addition would). They want their money fast and up front.

The last I heard the average guest stay at WDW is just a little over four days. You have to remember that for all you people taking your three week stay at DVC there are a couple of middle class families just trying to squeeze in a long weekend. So the average is just that – an average over all of the guests. Your mileage will vary.

It was expected (or the delusion had it) that AK would add a full day on to that stay. A significant number of WDW guests still venture off property for Sea World or Universal or Busch Garden or whatever. Disney somehow convinced themselves that adding another theme park would keep everyone in place – along with the water parks, the mini golf, and the bar areas.

Past experience had shown that is what happens when Disney would open up another park. EPCOT Center turned WDW from a day trip into the centerpiece of a trip to Florida, Disney/MGM Studios turned that centerpiece into a destination, the hotels, water parks and Pleasure Island turned the destination into a full-service resort. Animal Kingdom was expected to lock people on Disney property as tightly as if they had been on a cruiseship in the middle of the Caribbean. With four parks demanding four full days and all the other activities demanding at least a full day, Disney was sure it could force a full five day vacation onto its guests.

The problem was people just didn’t behave like the PowerPoint presentation said they should. Instead of extending their stays or staying on property, people simply took time away from Disney’s other parks and squeezed in Animal Kingdom. Worse, the park itself was not a draw; the public wasn’t booking additional trips or visiting more often to see the new place. All of the financial assumption behind Animal Kingdom turned out to wrong and – horror of horrors – it was sucking the money away from all the existing parks. This was Disney’s nightmare and why all talk of a fifth park stopped immediately.

The only thing that went in Disney’s favor was that Islands of Adventure stumbled out of the gate as well. Universal’s park was lost in the overwhelming Disney glow that used to surround Orlando and it took time for it to punch its way through. And Universal quickly learned that simply having two theme parks does not make a resort. You need the hotels and nighttime entertainment and another park to make a resort. It was lesson that Disney ignored as well in Anaheim*.

I assume that use the same “first park of the day” method that Disney uses (a lot of the management there came from Disney). I have heard that park hopping is very small where at Disney it is a major factor.


* Why the “two park” worked when EPCOT Center opened is a topic for another thread.
 
DAK has a lot of potential, mostly because of its size. Except for the carny rides. Today is going to be a day in history for DAK, a new vision of events, rides and plans starting in this park.
 
Several other large additions, such as large wooden coaster for Dinoland and the completion of the Conversation Station were also cancelled after the park opened.
I'm aware of the Dinoland coaster, but I didn't realize Conservation Station wasn't completed. What else was supposed to go in there?
Again the pattern is to spend as little as possible to “solve” complaints about the park.
You say that as if it's a bad thing, rather than just smart investing. If I was a Disney shareholder, I'd want management to get the most bang for the buck. And after all, it's not like Tower of Terror or Forbidden Mountain are cheap attractions. They're clearly several steps above Six Flags' "throw another barely themed coaster in the old parking lot" attractions.
 
You say that as if it's a bad thing, rather than just smart investing.
I'd say the key in his quote was the use of the term "solve" (the "" marks being crucial.)

Not enough for kids, you say? Well, hows about we add a dinosaur spinner? Trouble is, that strategy doesn't seem to be working.
 
For what it's worth, here's a soundbite from a note I wrote (for an AOL review board) of our experience at Animal Kingdom during our trip to WDW last year:

"Biggest disappointment for us? Animal Kingdom.

The Animal Conservation park (a.k.a the Bronx Zoo) in New York (which we visit frequently) absolutely blows Disney's AK away in terms of actual animal exhibits (the Congo Gorilla Encounter at the Bronx Zoo is the world class textbook example of how to do an "animal attraction," anything at AK is a sad comparison to this amazing $40 million exhibit). IMHO, Disney really needs to re-think the basic premise of AK, many visitors have already experienced major zoos that give Disney more than a run for its money here. Most of what one experiences at WDW is "best practice," but not this zoo disguised as theme park."
 
Originally posted by Douglas Dubh

You say that as if it's a bad thing, rather than just smart investing. If I was a Disney shareholder, I'd want management to get the most bang for the buck. And after all, it's not like Tower of Terror or Forbidden Mountain are cheap attractions. They're clearly several steps above Six Flags' "throw another barely themed coaster in the old parking lot" attractions.

It is bad when you consider the who/why/how Walt built Disney.
 
AK hurt itself by not measuring up to the standards set by the other parks. Word of mouth destroyed it. Most patrons felt it wasn't all that great and certainly not worth making a special trip to see.

But that said - this park does have potential. It could emulate the magic kingdom design the best if re-engineered masterfully. The mountain is a great addition.

IOA had a different problem when it opened - too many water rides.
 
It is bad when you consider the who/why/how Walt built Disney.
Walt certainly tried to get the most bang for his buck, and to use his resources where they were most needed.
 
Originally posted by Douglas Dubh
Walt certainly tried to get the most bang for his buck, and to use his resources where they were most needed.

Too bad the Baron is not here to give you a lesson in Walt's philosophy. As he is much better at it then I could ever dream to be. I do challenge you to cite an example where Walt sacrificed Quality for profits? Remember this was the guy that built the "system", "ride", "track", "movie camera" to get the job done right if nothing better existed. That is certainly not "bang for you buck".
 
I do challenge you to cite an example where Walt sacrificed Quality for profits?
I never claimed he did. What I did say is that it is good business sense to spend the least amount of money to solve a problem. The problem lately, it seems to me, is that, too often, they have either not spent enough money to solve the problem, or let the problem go on too long without a solution.
 
I think the chord that is trying to be struck here is that Walt would not have 'gold-plated' anything - UNLESS there was a reason for it to actually BE gold-plated.

I don't imagine when he built a set he built more of it than was needed for the scene - and certainly when he built Disneyland he didn't do everything the way he would have done it if he hadn't been restricted by the money available.

The difference in my mind between Walt and a 'theme park tycoon' is that a tycoon puts his profit into his 'pocket' while Walt would always take what he had in his 'pocket' and put it into what excited him.
 
"The difference in my mind between Walt and a 'theme park tycoon' is that a tycoon puts his profit into his 'pocket' while Walt would always take what he had in his 'pocket' and put it into what excited him."

In todays corperate world, do you think Walt would be able to do this ? I think he would be totally disgusted with the way busness is run today.
 
Originally posted by KNWVIKING
[B

In todays corperate world, do you think Walt would be able to do this ? I think he would be totally disgusted with the way busness is run today. [/B]

Yes there are people and companiess out there doing this on a daily basis....Microsoft, Apple, Pixar just to name a few.
 
Originally posted by Douglas Dubh
I never claimed he did. What I did say is that it is good business sense to spend the least amount of money to solve a problem.

Only in the short term.
 











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