Animal Kingdom's declinig attendence article....

[YoHo]

Except KNWViking, none of the huge media conglomerates is doing well right now. SO Disney isn't alone which means the idea WAS a bad one in the first place. The problem is that Eisner bought Fox family after everyone else figured out it was a bad idea. Fox afterall wasn't selling because it was such a great idea.

 

[KNWVIKING]

True, but what was ABC doing back when it was purchased ? And even though they paid too much for Fox Fam, they weren't buying it for what it was but for what they envisioned it to be.

 

[YoHo]

ABC was doing better then Fox back then and that's about it. Now its not even doing that well.

 

[raidermatt]

ABC doing well or not well prior to the purchase doesn't justify the business model. It just justifies or doesn't justify the price.

The key is how it will be run going forward, and as we saw, the answer was not well.

Now, with Fox, a truckload of dough has been flushed, and the business model is still unproven at best.

Which brings us back to the original problem... Does it make sense to invest in unproven business models AT THE EXPENSE of proven models...

Its not like the parks were getting all the funds they needed to remain current and vibrant... The Fox investment came at the expense of updates to Epcot, and expansions and improvements in AK and DCA. Throw DLParis into the mix as well, and maybe another family film or two per year, or in-house CGI animation...

Now, the model for ABC Family has been changed, and more money will be needed... ABC itself has made only marginal improvements, and Epcot, AK and DCA are all in need of significant investment (certainly more than one attraction each). How will MGM be doing in 4-5 years, if no major additions come its way?

 

[KNWVIKING]

"Which brings us back to the original problem... Does it make sense to invest in unproven business models AT THE EXPENSE of proven models..."

Well, it worked for Walt.

 

[raidermatt]

Well, it worked for Walt.

Yes, and apparently he was just a tad better at it than current management. Perhaps they should stick to the models Walt proved, instead of wasting shareholder money on their own failed schemes.

 

[KNWVIKING]

There is no disputing the aftermath of the decision to buy the networks, but hindsite is always 20/20. But just think of the potential had it worked, the concept makes sense. And with the right programming and management I think it still could. How much network tv do you actually watch anymore ? I know I spend more time watching cable networks.

 

[Planogirl]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
There is no disputing the aftermath of the decision to buy the networks, but hindsite is always 20/20. But just think of the potential had it worked, the concept makes sense. And with the right programming and management I think it still could. How much network tv do you actually watch anymore ? I know I spend more time watching cable networks.

I agree with this to some extent. Nickelodeon did well enough to add TV Land. And there's plenty of other cable networks that do well but they tend to be unique. I see nothing unique about either ABC or ABC Family. As a matter of fact, I think that Fox Family was more interesting.

Uh oh. Now you did it. This ought to be good. You can just hear the creative,sarcastic juice's flowing

See? The answers weren't so bad after all.

 

[crusader]

Except that you're dealing with creative people, not MBAs. Once they're one, they won't come back, because they've already been screwed over once. That might change if their's a major management shakeup, but money alone won't be enough.

Money is a major factor in terms of financing the dept as a whole and funding the construction of the projects coming off the line. Creative talent will be drawn to the company reputed to produce. Even a veteran may return to contribute his/her talents to a great project being generated by a former employer despite the past - given the right fit.

 

[All Aboard]

Walt didn't say, ok, you can have the Jungle Cruise, but only if you cut costs and put in some coin-operated boats to pay for it.

Just throwing in a comment from the cheap seats, Shrunken Ned's Junior Jungle Boats were added in 1997.

And, the Tomorrowland Arcade was added in the 1990's, as well.

 

[KNWVIKING]

I don't really have a problem with the carny games over in AK, to each his own. But at least Shrunken Ned's boats fit the JC theme. And if you go to Chucky Cheese.....

 

[Walt's Frozen Head]

'Scoop, is it wise to use the mistakes of decades past as benchmarks for the current output of a "creative" company?

It almost sounds like you're saying "someone else already made this mistake, years ago" is a compelling business case for going ahead and making it, again...

-WFH

 

[DisneyKidds]

Late to this party, just a few comments................................

I do challenge you to cite an example where Walt sacrificed Quality for profits?

Walt did do this, but out of necessity (some would say dire need to avaoid bankruptcy - which I think is a bit of an overstatement) and he didn't turn it into long term standard operating procedure. The early compilation films are a good example. Also, while Walt had finally proved that the big budget animated film could be a success, I believe it was Dumbo that he made to try and depart, for a short time, form having to invest millions in a film, and to prove that money could be made by making a smaller budget, and slightly lower quality, film. The compilations served a purpose and disappeared, and Dumbo proved to be a success - so even when Walt ventured into this territory he was more successful than the current management types at Disney are today. I believe there are minor examples of where Walt might have sacrificed a little in the parks here or there in order to save money, but I don't think anything major.

Obviously PW is not Spiderman. But I challenge anyone to say it's not fun.

I'll take that challenge. IMHO PW is not fun at all. I rode it. Once to be exact. I got off, had another fastpass in my hot little hand and could have gone on again - and chose not to. The ride is short, going around the corners can give you bruises and not the fun kind of 'whiplash' that makes you laugh, the drops are non existent...................it just isn't fun.

 

[Douglas Dubh]

And, the Tomorrowland Arcade was added in the 1990's, as well.

That may be, but the Starcade was added to Disneyland's TL in 1977, and Teddi Barra's Swingin' Arcade opened in DL's Bear Country in 1972.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Hey! Who deleted my "kindly" swipe at my good friend DK and his inability to handle a mere wildmouse at 25mphs?

Swipe away, my friend . I can handle it (the swipe ) and a wildmouse as well. Perhaps your attempt at a swipe might be fun(ny), but this particular wildmouse coaster that has no place in Disney isn't. You know me, I am always a 'I have to see it/ride it before I render an opinion' kind of guy. Well, I've been there/done that on PW and it is a disappointment. Do you feel otherwise? As the 'ole Raiders fan likes to say..............it just isn't COMPELLING .

 

[raidermatt]

Didn't get to see the swipe, though I'm sure it was good...

But I can back-up DK on this one. While I do think PW is fun to a certain extent, you can definitely take some shots on that ride depending on who you are riding with (and I don't mean Jack Daniels shots!)

I rode it with a friend, and being the smaller of the two at 230 lbs at the time, had the inside seat. Left him with a few bruises...

I also rode it once with nobody else on my side, and you can get tossed around quite a bit if you don't brace yourself very well.

I can easily see where that wouldn't be all that fun for some people.

Couple that with it being a pretty tame ride from a thrill perspective, and its very easy to see why a lot of people wouldn't think its all that fun.

Maybe that's one reason why the Dinorama area, plus the JJP, did very little to help AK's attendance?

 

[DisneyKidds]

I'd never experienced the physical sensation of turning circular while travelling somewhat linearly.

Well, Scoop.............you need to..........................ah, never mind.

But, that got old real quick, so I agree that it is pretty weak.

Glad to see you are up for the Vikings challenge too.

In the end, I'm much more concerned about the Bush war supporters on this board who are trying to suppress me and Susan's free speech rights concerning Hopewell Junction and it's lack of guts, er, stomach...

Wow, comments on intestinal fortitude from Mr. 'I've got two inches of snow in Knoxville and I have to shovel ten times' Scoop . You ain't so tough, pal .

 

[KNWVIKING]

Well, I guess it's safe to assume the smiling faces I saw on the ride and getting off of it didn't belong to anyone who posts on this board.

DK, if you disliked the ride then I have to accept your opinion, but I still don't think it's a terrible ride.

Scoop, sure it's weak,never said it wasn't, but would you ride it again ? do you feel it was a waste of your time to go on it ?

 

[DisneyKidds]

Well, ..................

Well, screw it.................I'm in car 3 (are you happy Baron)..............I have to be if I am going to say this, but - for something to be a Disney success it has to do more than make a few people don a simple smile. Now don't anybody feel tempted to throw some of my past arguments in my face, as I still maintain that that A-word ride accomplishes more than this for the target audience .

I still don't think it's a terrible ride.

No, not for the likes of Hershey Park, et. al. (geez, will the car 3 comments never cease - it's like all those obscenities flowing out of Ralphy's mouth as he pummels the bulley in..................(you name the movie)).

Scoop, sure it's weak,never said it wasn't, but would you ride it again ? do you feel it was a waste of your time to go on it ?

Is it acceptable for Disney to strive for something that you can only say this about? (someone stop me, please!)

p.s. 2 inches of snow? We had 14 inches just last week...

Oh, sorry - it was just that you had to shovel every two inches. Is that how real men do it in TN?

 

[KNWVIKING]

"Is it acceptable for Disney to strive for something that you can only say this about? (someone stop me, please!) "

Strive for,no. But my point is made by what Scoop's mom thought about the ride moreso then what you or I think about it.