And You Thought Digital Was Confusing?!

[Gdad]

Here is an interesting article about photojournalist David Burnett winning the White House News Photographers' Association's Eyes of History contest with a Holga image of Al Gore.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/photo/essays/vanRiper/010706.htm

 

[annnewjerz]

Here is an interesting article about photojournalist David Burnett winning the White House News Photographers' Association's Eyes of History contest with a Holga image of Al Gore.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/photo/essays/vanRiper/010706.htm

Very interesting read. AND Burnett has four Holgas. I guess for the price, they're just like Lays potato chips---you can't have just one.

 

[kaffinito]

I got this one:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/107620-REG/General_Brand__Large_Changing_Bag_27x30_.html

I think a small one would actually be better for carrying around for the Holga- this one rolls up to about the size of a soda can.

Thank you!

 

[annnewjerz]

So---for all of you film shooters, where do you buy your film?

Obviously, something like 35mm I plan to buy in the store so I don't have to worry about paying shipping. However, it seems like for 120 size film I will need to order it online. Any good place to buy bulk packs or anywhere you find it cheaper than others?

Right now, I have looked on B&H and Adorama, but I'm wondering if I could get lots on places like e-bay without too much worry that it'll be expired when I get it.

 

[Gdad]

Freestyle

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_main.php

Or Ebay- What's wrong with expired film?

http://www.flickr.com/groups/expired/

http://www.flickr.com/groups/1007137@N22/

 

[gokenin]

buy in bulk from either adorama or B&H and any film that you think you are not going to use simply leave it in the canister it comes in and place them in the freezer. you will be able to keep it well past the expiration date on the canister. when you thaw the film out keep it in the canister until it has reached room temperature(usually overnight) in order to keep condensation from occuring inside the film catridge

 

[annnewjerz]

Freestyle

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_main.php

Or Ebay- What's wrong with expired film?

http://www.flickr.com/groups/expired/

http://www.flickr.com/groups/1007137@N22/

Just when I think that I'm getting the hang of things, you go and show me this. I guess I should know by now that anything is possible---even shooting with expired film.

buy in bulk from either adorama or B&H and any film that you think you are not going to use simply leave it in the canister it comes in and place them in the freezer. you will be able to keep it well past the expiration date on the canister. when you thaw the film out keep it in the canister until it has reached room temperature(usually overnight) in order to keep condensation from occuring inside the film catridge

Thanks for the tip! Right now, I won't be buying in bulk because I'm not sure which film I like yet, but once I get it figured out I'm sure this will save at least a few bucks.

 

[annnewjerz]

Okay, so I know a couple posts back I said I wasn't interested in developing my own film because it would just be too much at this point---but too bad, I want to learn now.

After calling several places in the area including (but not limited to) two local camera shops, a Ritz and the Sam's Club per Jeff's claim to getting his rolls of 120 done for like $2 each I'm baffled by the prices that these places want to charge me for just the development, if they are even able to do it at all.

I don't mind paying $10 for digital prints, but to pay $10 to have the film developed in addition to like $3 per roll and then still have to scan it myself all to get 12 pictures per roll---give me a break.

So, rather than flush $10 down the toilet I'd like to learn more about film developing at home.

Any place you film shooters can direct me so I can figure out A. How to do it a B. What supplies I will need??

I'm only interested in doing the 120 film since 35mm can be developed for a somewhat more reasonable price.

Right now I'm looking to get just your basic stuff, a reel, a tank, whatever chemicals I'll need---just something to get set up and learn with.

HELP PLEASE?!

 

[gokenin]

I have not taken the step to developing my own film yet to tell the truth. I know that both Adorama and B&H both have the supplies needed for you to set up your own darkroom and develop your film, I did a quick look at Amazon and came across this book http://www.amazon.com/Into-Your-Darkroom-Step/dp/0936262060/ref=pd_cp_b_3 I am sure there are others but this one appears to be helpful from the reviews. Hope this helps and thats the problem with medium format film the odd size makes it a pain to have developed the same can be said from "true" B&W film as well

 

[Gdad]

Okay- Here goes.

First off- what are you trying to get developed? Is it the Fuji Realaor the TMax 400? The Tmax like most B&W films none of the 1-Hour places will be able to do anything but send it off regardless if it's 120 or 35mm. Plus that takes weeks and is expensive- but you can develop it yourself and it's not too complicated or expensive. The Fuji is a C-41 process so I have no idea how to do it yourself but I have heard it is way more complicated and picky than B&W is. That is what I found a 1-Hour lab that will do for $1.60 a roll but maybe I just got lucky.

Anyway- to develop my own B&W here is what I have:

• $19 Book: Kodak Black & White Darkroom Dataguide
• $23 Changing Bag: General Brand LARGE CHANGING BAG (27x30)
• $28 Tank Kit: Paterson UNIVERSAL TANK w/1 REEL
• $15 Developer: Kodak HC-110 Developer (Liquid Concentrate)
• $7 Stop Bath: Kodak Indicator Stop Bath (Liquid Concentrate)
• $8 Fixer: Kodak Kodafix Solution (Liquid Concentrate)
• $8 Rinse: Kodak Photo-Flo

In addition to this I also spent maybe another $30 in the kitchen section of Wal-Mart for the folowing:

• Four 1 QT Tupperware drink containers to mix the chemicals in since they can be reused several times
• A digital thermometer since processing time varies according to temperature
• A digital kitchen timer to time the steps,
• A couple measuring devices that measure in ML from the small syringe style to larger ones for measuring say 800ML of water
• A bottle opener if you want to open a can of 35mm film
• A couple small magnetic 'chip-clips' to hang the film up to dry
• A plastic tub to keep it all in

As for the process:

• Mix up the four chemicals in the 1 QT containers according to the instructions on the labels. Mix enough to pretty much fill the containers since air degrades the shelf life. And remember to label the bottles.
• Working in the changing bag- load the film onto the reel, put the reel into the tank, and seal the lid. 120 film has a paper back which must be removed before loading on the reel. It is probably worth wasting a new roll of film to practice this where you can see a few times first.
• Check the temperature of the chemicals- particularly the developer. The book has time tables for temps from 65F-75F if it is warmer than that it will need to cool off in the fridge first.
• Pour the chemicals in and out of the tank following the tables in the book for times- Developer- Stop Bath- Fixer- Rinse with water- Photo-Flo right before you pull it off the reel. You will need to knock the tank at the start of each and agitate as instructed for your film (5x every 30 seconds for TMAx)

And that's about it- the film is safe for light when you do the water rinse. The Photo-Flo is just so it dries without streaks. Again there are a lot of videos on Youtube on film developing if you go look. 35mm is easier to load on the reel and the reel in the tank kit I linked to is 'convertible' to either format. The tank holds two reels in the 35mm position so if you think you may want to do that one day you can pick up a spare reel for like $10. Also- I think B&H will not ship the Stop Bath. I picked up all my chemistry at a local photography shop.

Anyway- good luck and have fun. This thread is like a Visa commercial

Plastic Camera: $40
Flatbed Scanner: $150
Film Developing Setup: $200
A little square B&W negative you made yourself: Priceless

 

[annnewjerz]

Okay- Here goes.

First off- what are you trying to get developed? Is it the Fuji Realaor the TMax 400? The Tmax like most B&W films none of the 1-Hour places will be able to do anything but send it off regardless if it's 120 or 35mm. Plus that takes weeks and is expensive- but you can develop it yourself and it's not too complicated or expensive. The Fuji is a C-41 process so I have no idea how to do it yourself but I have heard it is way more complicated and picky than B&W is. That is what I found a 1-Hour lab that will do for $1.60 a roll but maybe I just got lucky.

Anyway- to develop my own B&W here is what I have:

• $19 Book: Kodak Black & White Darkroom Dataguide
• $23 Changing Bag: General Brand LARGE CHANGING BAG (27x30)
• $28 Tank Kit: Paterson UNIVERSAL TANK w/1 REEL
• $15 Developer: Kodak HC-110 Developer (Liquid Concentrate)
• $7 Stop Bath: Kodak Indicator Stop Bath (Liquid Concentrate)
• $8 Fixer: Kodak Kodafix Solution (Liquid Concentrate)
• $8 Rinse: Kodak Photo-Flo

In addition to this I also spent maybe another $30 in the kitchen section of Wal-Mart for the folowing:

• Four 1 QT Tupperware drink containers to mix the chemicals in since they can be reused several times
• A digital thermometer since processing time varies according to temperature
• A digital kitchen timer to time the steps,
• A couple measuring devices that measure in ML from the small syringe style to larger ones for measuring say 800ML of water
• A bottle opener if you want to open a can of 35mm film
• A couple small magnetic 'chip-clips' to hang the film up to dry
• A plastic tub to keep it all in

As for the process:

• Mix up the four chemicals in the 1 QT containers according to the instructions on the labels. Mix enough to pretty much fill the containers since air degrades the shelf life. And remember to label the bottles.
• Working in the changing bag- load the film onto the reel, put the reel into the tank, and seal the lid. 120 film has a paper back which must be removed before loading on the reel. It is probably worth wasting a new roll of film to practice this where you can see a few times first.
• Check the temperature of the chemicals- particularly the developer. The book has time tables for temps from 65F-75F if it is warmer than that it will need to cool off in the fridge first.
• Pour the chemicals in and out of the tank following the tables in the book for times- Developer- Stop Bath- Fixer- Rinse with water- Photo-Flo right before you pull it off the reel. You will need to knock the tank at the start of each and agitate as instructed for your film (5x every 30 seconds for TMAx)

And that's about it- the film is safe for light when you do the water rinse. The Photo-Flo is just so it dries without streaks. Again there are a lot of videos on Youtube on film developing if you go look. 35mm is easier to load on the reel and the reel in the tank kit I linked to is 'convertible' to either format. The tank holds two reels in the 35mm position so if you think you may want to do that one day you can pick up a spare reel for like $10. Also- I think B&H will not ship the Stop Bath. I picked up all my chemistry at a local photography shop.

Anyway- good luck and have fun. This thread is like a Visa commercial

Plastic Camera: $40
Flatbed Scanner: $150
Film Developing Setup: $200
A little square B&W negative you made yourself: Priceless

Jeff, you had made at least this part of the process very easy. The work that goes into it, I don't mind spending the time on at all---in the long run, hopefully it'll save me some money.

Here is the film I currently have in 120 size:

Fuji Reala
Kodak Portra 400NC
Kodak Portra 400VR
Some Kodak B&W film that you recommended earlier since it could be processed as C-41.
Kodak TMax 400 that I picked up prior to knowing it would take weeks and $$ to develop.

So basically, to summarize---you develop your own true B&W (like the TMax 400) and send all of the rest of your color film out to be developed?

The kind of film I was getting estimates for getting developed was just regular color 120 film. The responses I got were either a) we don't process that film type, b) we don't process that film type, but we can send it out and have it back in 10 business days or c) we do process that film, but it will be $10 per roll for development only.

I guess for my color film I'm stuck paying the $7-$10 per roll for development. That being said, after the 20 rolls of Kodak Portra I just won on e-bay are gone---I think I'll stick with B&W that I can do myself at home.

I've gotta say, I'm feeling discouraged. I'm sure that once I get my first roll back though, I'll feel a little better.

 

[Gdad]

Jeff, you had made at least this part of the process very easy. The work that goes into it, I don't mind spending the time on at all---in the long run, hopefully it'll save me some money.

Here is the film I currently have in 120 size:

Fuji Reala
Kodak Portra 400NC
Kodak Portra 400VR
Some Kodak B&W film that you recommended earlier since it could be processed as C-41.
Kodak TMax 400 that I picked up prior to knowing it would take weeks and $$ to develop.

So basically, to summarize---you develop your own true B&W (like the TMax 400) and send all of the rest of your color film out to be developed?

The kind of film I was getting estimates for getting developed was just regular color 120 film. The responses I got were either a) we don't process that film type, b) we don't process that film type, but we can send it out and have it back in 10 business days or c) we do process that film, but it will be $10 per roll for development only.

I guess for my color film I'm stuck paying the $7-$10 per roll for development. That being said, after the 20 rolls of Kodak Portra I just won on e-bay are gone---I think I'll stick with B&W that I can do myself at home.

I've gotta say, I'm feeling discouraged. I'm sure that once I get my first roll back though, I'll feel a little better.

$10 a roll is crazy. I wonder what do those places charge people to develop a roll of 35mm C-41 with no prints or CD? If they know what they are doing it should cost no more to develop 120 just because it's a little more rare that people use it. I would keep searching for a better place- and until you find one just shoot B&W.

 

[annnewjerz]

$10 a roll is crazy. I wonder what do those places charge people to develop a roll of 35mm C-41 with no prints or CD? If they know what they are doing it should cost no more to develop 120 just because it's a little more rare that people use it. I would keep searching for a better place- and until you find one just shoot B&W.

Yeah to be honest the local camera shop that quoted me the $10 per roll for just development has always been way overpriced compared to another that I had purchased my 18-200 from, but they are the most convenient so I called there first. I also called two Sams Clubs in the area. Needless to say they sounded on the phone exactly how I imaged they would look in person---like they were looking at someone with three heads.

For now I've got two rolls of TMax 400, so I'll shoot with that, take a swing into a local camera shop to peruse their chemicals and see if I'm ready to take the plunge into the home development.

 

[boBQuincy]

Oh, it hasn't even *started* to get confusing yet! In his quest to make the dynamic range of a scene fit on the film Ansel Adams worked out a system of matching the exposure with the development to vary the range of the film. We should strive for nothing less!

We have it easy, use the digital camera's histogram to see the dynamic range, then adjust the Holga to suit. Develop the film to match and voila, HDR in the analog world!

Run right out and pick up a copy of "The Negative" to see how all this works. Even if you don't use the ideas the book is still fascinating and who knows, you just might use some of the included formulas to mix up your own developer!

 

[Gdad]

For now I've got two rolls of TMax 400, so I'll shoot with that, take a swing into a local camera shop to peruse their chemicals and see if I'm ready to take the plunge into the home development.

It looks like Freestyle will ship chemicals via ground.

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/1464247-Kodak-Indicator-Stop-Bath-16-oz.?cat_id=302

 

[annnewjerz]

So, I guess I made a little progress. I called three more places today and got the following responses:

- Develop for $7 per roll, takes a week to do it (down the road from my work)
- Develop for $5 per roll, takes only an hour or two (down the road from my work)
- Develop for $3 per roll, takes a week to do it (about 15 minutes from my house, but would have to pay a $3 toll every time I wanted to drop off film, since it's in Pennsylvania---so I'd have to save up a few rolls and do it all at once)

Decisions decisions. I think for now I'll go with the $5 per roll place. I do a decent bit of shopping in there for various bags, cleaning supplies and the occassional lens, so maybe they'll give me a good customer discount. I'm anxious to see how much they charge for 35mm C-41 because if it's a lot less, I'll definitely be asking why 120 is $5 per roll.

 

[Gdad]

- Develop for $5 per roll, takes only an hour or two (down the road from my work)

So we should be expecting some scans to be posted later tonight then?

 

[annnewjerz]

So we should be expecting some scans to be posted later tonight then?

Unfortunately, no.

I'll be getting the film done after work (as long as they have time), but my scanner isn't going to arrive until Monday. So by the time I get it all set up, we're probably looking like maybe it'll be Wednesday. Maybe.

In all honestly, I think the first roll is going to be so bad I won't even want to post it. Between not understanding how to load it, accidentally taking double-exposures when I didn't mean to and only really shooting stuff in and around my office---all of it combined makes for a snoozefest.

 

[YesDear]

But Ann, you know a lot of us do snooze really well!

 

[spinetnglr]

Unfortunately, no.

I'll be getting the film done after work (as long as they have time), but my scanner isn't going to arrive until Monday. So by the time I get it all set up, we're probably looking like maybe it'll be Wednesday. Maybe.

In all honestly, I think the first roll is going to be so bad I won't even want to post it. Between not understanding how to load it, accidentally taking double-exposures when I didn't mean to and only really shooting stuff in and around my office---all of it combined makes for a snoozefest.

Sometimes mistakes and accidentally doing things turns out good. You might be surprised when finally get to see the final results