An off the rails joke at Jungle Skipper today

[kandb]

What about the fat children other children mocked for their appearances, that are incessantly mocked to the point of suicide (which is a real thing that happens) because this 13-year-old wanted to "have a little fun"?

Seriously? I don't see bullies committing suicide for being told that their actions are wrong. I see victims of bullying committing suicide for being constantly harrassed and tortured by their peers.

I hope you realize Lisa was being sarcastic. You need to re-read her post.

 

[kandb]

Absolutely...and soon they won't be able to joke about anything. The possibility of offending or upsetting someone is too great. And there is no way to police what is or isn't offensive/upsetting. Time's change. Things that weren't thought of as offensive in the past are now (like jokes about gators). Better to just not make jokes.

No I don't agree. Making fun of someone with a disability is NOT OK. There are MANY things to joke about, disabilities should be off the table, especially at a family place like Disney.

 

[Jennasis]

No I don't agree. Making fun of someone with a disability is NOT OK. There are MANY things to joke about, disabilities should be off the table, especially at a family place like Disney.

I was agreeing with you....Nobody should make fun of disabilities, and there are Absolutely many other things to joke about. But there is no way of policing who may be offended by what, so it may wind up that eventually no jokes will be told.

 

[boxer]

I missed the part where the OP stated this joke wasn't even told at their table. REALLY not sure now why they felt the need to report a joke that wasn't even directed at them?!?! The world needs LESS Hall Pass Monitors....let people alone, and if something offends you, then just move on. Like someone said earlier, this is the type of situation where Disney will cut Skipper Canteen's storyline/theme-----and then everyone will complain that Disney is 'getting rid of all the unique experiences'.

 

[NeuroCindy]

There is a significant and poignant context to the "joke" that no one has mentioned. The line does not originate with the movie What About Bob? but that movie simply acknowledges the original. The original comes from the great composer and pianist Oscar Levant who wrote "Roses are Red, Violets are Blue I'm schizophrenic and so am I". He was referring to and somewhat mocking his own significant mental problems, drug addictions and multiple admissions to hospitals. Levant intended it as a joke and a reminder of the struggles he went through. As such, the line itself is not at all bad or insensitive if the context is known.

The real issue here is that it was used out of proper context. I would educate the server not vilify them. Education is much more appropriate and useful. I doubt that the server meant serious harm.

Oh, and for those who say they don't get the joke, it's based on the mistaken idea of schizophrenia as split personality. Those of us who have worked in mental hospitals (me as a psychologist) also can understand that Levant's joke pokes fun at that misunderstanding.

You missed the reason why I asked that question. It's the same reason I ask it when someone tells a racist joke, it makes them reveal their prejudices when they explain why it's funny. I fully understand what the joke is intended to be.

 

[Lisa F]

I was agreeing with you....Nobody should make fun of disabilities, and there are Absolutely many other things to joke about. But there is no way of policing who may be offended by what, so it may wind up that eventually no jokes will be told.

slippery slope logical fallacy. you don't need to "police it", you just need to have reasonable and realistic guidelines about what is or isn't ok, adjusted as the times require it. I don't see a problem with removing the "croc eating kids" joke as sensitivity to a family who had a horrific loss. Use something like this to have a talk with your staff to say "yeah that is a big over the line, let's dial it back a bit." Really, it is possible to be funny without doing it at the expense of someone else.

I think a good way to delineate what is ok and what isn't is the following:
anyone part of a class of people protected by law against discrimination, not ok to joke about. there is a reason that these people are specifically protected by law in the first place. in fact how about we don't make fun of guests at all?

anything using inappropriate language or adult or sexual content, not ok to joke about

save that kind of stuff for an adult comedy show by a mouthy comedian and an audience who understands the subtlety of the fact that by making fun of it they are also attempting to speak out against it. this is the appropriate context, not Disney - a place that not only prides itself on entertainment for the entire family but on ACCEPTANCE of all people.

if you feel like you have nothing left to joke about after taking all of that off the table then I feel kind of sorry for you.

Corny, family oriented, punny and non offensive humor is what Disney does best (and has always done best). Joke about the food. Joke about the heat. Joke about the Florida. Joke about the high prices. pretend you are actually a skipper in the jungle and joke about what that is like. give the dad in the family a hard time for not finishing his green beans or the mom in the family crap for putting her tired elbows on the table. Bring a hundred ketchups if someone asks for ketchup and bring a bucket of coke if someone asks for a refill. be in character. don't be a big jerk. I don't think it is so hard but apparently many people think it is the end to fun as we know it.

 

[AngiTN]

Why? Because you don't think so? The manager agreed it was inappropriate.

In all honesty? I highly doubt it. Possible without a doubt. Sure, the manager said that to the OP because they never disagree with a guest to their face. They aren't going to laugh at them and tell them to "lighten up Francis" because they are professional and know how to appease the guest in front of them. Did the Manager actually speak to the server? Who knows. Likely forgot all about it when the next guest complaint came in. Because in the grand scheme of things that can be wrong and complained about, this isn't even a blip on the radar

 

[Mflowers92]

slippery slope logical fallacy. you don't need to "police it", you just need to have reasonable and realistic guidelines about what is or isn't ok, adjusted as the times require it. I don't see a problem with removing the "croc eating kids" joke as sensitivity to a family who had a horrific loss. Use something like this to have a talk with your staff to say "yeah that is a big over the line, let's dial it back a bit." Really, it is possible to be funny without doing it at the expense of someone else.

I think a good way to delineate what is ok and what isn't is the following:
anyone part of a class of people protected by law against discrimination, not ok to joke about. there is a reason that these people are specifically protected by law in the first place. in fact how about we don't make fun of guests at all?

anything using inappropriate language or adult or sexual content, not ok to joke about

save that kind of stuff for an adult comedy show by a mouthy comedian and an audience who understands the subtlety of the fact that by making fun of it they are also attempting to speak out against it. this is the appropriate context, not Disney - a place that not only prides itself on entertainment for the entire family but on ACCEPTANCE of all people.

if you feel like you have nothing left to joke about after taking all of that off the table then I feel kind of sorry for you.

Corny, family oriented, punny and non offensive humor is what Disney does best (and has always done best). Joke about the food. Joke about the heat. Joke about the Florida. Joke about the high prices. pretend you are actually a skipper in the jungle and joke about what that is like. give the dad in the family a hard time for not finishing his green beans or the mom in the family crap for putting her tired elbows on the table. Bring a hundred ketchups if someone asks for ketchup and bring a bucket of coke if someone asks for a refill. be in character. don't be a big jerk. I don't think it is so hard but apparently many people think it is the end to fun as we know it.

Agreed. If you don't know how to joke without making fun of other people (specifically groups that face very real violence and discrimination because of the perpetuation of false stereotypes), then maybe the problem is your own sense of humor?

 

[AngiTN]

Please read what the OP said a few times. She wasn't "reporting" the server to get them in trouble. She was bringing an issue up to the manager so the manager could talk to the server and advise this line was NOT appropriate. My brother is mentally ********, if I was at any restaurant and heard ANY server said "hey look at that retard over there", I would be offended. Like I said already, there are a lot of things to laugh at, making fun of someone with a disability is not one of them.

Of course you would! As would anyone who heard it, no matter what the mental ability of their families are. That would be atrocious and worthy of firing right on the spot. What this server said and that statement are not even in the same universe of severity.

No I don't agree. Making fun of someone with a disability is NOT OK. There are MANY things to joke about, disabilities should be off the table, especially at a family place like Disney.

No one made fun of a guest in that statement. It was not directed AT anyone.

 

[AngiTN]

Corny, family oriented, punny and non offensive humor is what Disney does best (and has always done best). Joke about the food. Joke about the heat. Joke about the Florida. Joke about the high prices. pretend you are actually a skipper in the jungle and joke about what that is like. give the dad in the family a hard time for not finishing his green beans or the mom in the family crap for putting her tired elbows on the table. Bring a hundred ketchups if someone asks for ketchup and bring a bucket of coke if someone asks for a refill. be in character. don't be a big jerk. I don't think it is so hard but apparently many people think it is the end to fun as we know it.

Funny you mention that. Guess what has been toned down A LOT due to complaints from guests? Antics at both the establishments you mention. While I agree, this one instance won't be the cause of a change but they do all add up, one little straw at a time.

 

[Jennasis]

slippery slope logical fallacy. you don't need to "police it", you just need to have reasonable and realistic guidelines about what is or isn't ok, adjusted as the times require it. I don't see a problem with removing the "croc eating kids" joke as sensitivity to a family who had a horrific loss. Use something like this to have a talk with your staff to say "yeah that is a big over the line, let's dial it back a bit." Really, it is possible to be funny without doing it at the expense of someone else.

I think a good way to delineate what is ok and what isn't is the following:
anyone part of a class of people protected by law against discrimination, not ok to joke about. there is a reason that these people are specifically protected by law in the first place. in fact how about we don't make fun of guests at all?

anything using inappropriate language or adult or sexual content, not ok to joke about

save that kind of stuff for an adult comedy show by a mouthy comedian and an audience who understands the subtlety of the fact that by making fun of it they are also attempting to speak out against it. this is the appropriate context, not Disney - a place that not only prides itself on entertainment for the entire family but on ACCEPTANCE of all people.

if you feel like you have nothing left to joke about after taking all of that off the table then I feel kind of sorry for you.

Corny, family oriented, punny and non offensive humor is what Disney does best (and has always done best). Joke about the food. Joke about the heat. Joke about the Florida. Joke about the high prices. pretend you are actually a skipper in the jungle and joke about what that is like. give the dad in the family a hard time for not finishing his green beans or the mom in the family crap for putting her tired elbows on the table. Bring a hundred ketchups if someone asks for ketchup and bring a bucket of coke if someone asks for a refill. be in character. don't be a big jerk. I don't think it is so hard but apparently many people think it is the end to fun as we know it.

I'm assuming you meant the "royal you" and not me, because I never said anything like this.

Clearly, I'm not stating myself...well, clearly.

If the CM's continue to go off-script (assuming there is a script, because I assume that jokes about disabilities ARE NOT on the approved list, along with jokes about gender, race, religion, etc) with these kinds of insensitive jokes, then I believe we are likely to lose the jokey Skips all together, IMO.

FTR, I'm giving the CM in question here the benefit of the doubt that he did not mean any harm, nor was he trying to take a dig at schizophrenics or the mentally ill. If he was, then shame on him. Hopefully the manager told each server to stick to whatever guidelines they currently have in place...and hopefully they all comply....so that we don't wind up with watered down versions of the fun like they have at 50's or Whispering Canyon, or lose the fun interaction all together.

 

[NeuroCindy]

Let me ask this, if the waiter had started with "Roses are red, violets are blue, I have Parkinson's disease, so your drink will spill on you." Would that be acceptable as well?

What if they started with a racial joke (specifically making fun of a race they are not a part of). Is that acceptable?

 

[Mflowers92]

So it's okay to make an off color about black people as long as you aren't pointing to a specific black person and making it about them? The entire meat of this "joke" is "ha ha, laugh at people with schizophrenia." To me, it's not that different from jokes that are just "ha ha r-word people are funny."
Would you think it's funny if the server told a guest to "bite your ear and put a rainbow over your heart," like mean spirited kids who don't know better do to mimic and make fun of those who are mentally handicapped?
I just want to know what it is that makes mental handicaps and race "off limits," but schizophrenia gets the green light. For most, I think it's the foreignness and separation from the condition. Even if you don't have loved ones who are mentally handicapped, you see the well to do family with the child in the wheelchair trying to get by. Schizophrenia has an adult onset, so all you see if the homeless person who you can blame their condition on drugs, etc.

 

[AngiTN]

Let me ask this, if the waiter had started with "Roses are red, violets are blue, I have Parkinson's disease, so your drink will spill on you." Would that be acceptable as well?

Sorry, that doesn't offend either. It's not making fun of a guest. It would be making fun of himself. Neither this comment, not the original one was directed AT anyone. Neither directly make fun of a guest.

As for the racial joke comment, not the same thing at all. Again, no one made fun of someone else here.

 

[Jennasis]

So it's okay to make an off color about black people as long as you aren't pointing to a specific black person and making it about them? The entire meat of this "joke" is "ha ha, laugh at people with schizophrenia." To me, it's not that different from jokes that are just "ha ha r-word people are funny."
Would you think it's funny if the server told a guest to "bite your ear and put a rainbow over your heart," like mean spirited kids who don't know better do to mimic and make fun of those who are mentally handicapped?
I just want to know what it is that makes mental handicaps and race "off limits," but schizophrenia gets the green light. For most, I think it's the foreignness and separation from the condition. Even if you don't have loved ones who are mentally handicapped, you see the well to do family with the child in the wheelchair trying to get by. Schizophrenia has an adult onset, so all you see if the homeless person who you can blame their condition on drugs, etc.

O/T but what does this mean? I've never heard this sentence in my life.

 

[AngiTN]

O/T but what does this mean? I've never heard this sentence in my life.

Whew, I am glad I'm not the only one. I didn't understand a lot of the referenced post but that is totally lost on me. I can't fathom what it means

 

[NeuroCindy]

Sorry, that doesn't offend either. It's not making fun of a guest. It would be making fun of himself. Neither this comment, not the original one was directed AT anyone. Neither directly make fun of a guest.

As for the racial joke comment, not the same thing at all. Again, no one made fun of someone else here.

But it's not making fun of himself, it's making a joke about a medical condition he doesn't have.

 

[AngiTN]

But it's not making fun of himself, it's making a joke about a medical condition he doesn't have.

Do you know that for sure?

Still, no matter what, he was not making fun of a guest, it was not directed at a guest, no matter how anyone wants to spin it and to compare this statement to a server who makes fun of someone is not the same thing. Period.

 

[Mflowers92]

Whew, I am glad I'm not the only one. I didn't understand a lot of the referenced post but that is totally lost on me. I can't fathom what it means

Maybe it's a mean spirited joke that came along when I was in school. If you go do exactly that and look in a mirror while you do that, it gives you the appearance of someone who is mentally handicapped (like the wheelchair bound child with contractures "rainbow over the heart"). I'm only in my early 20s, so it may be a newer way that kids were being cruel.

 

[Lisa F]

I'm assuming you meant the "royal you" and not me, because I never said anything like this.

Clearly, I'm not stating myself...well, clearly.

If the CM's continue to go off-script (assuming there is a script, because I assume that jokes about disabilities ARE NOT on the approved list, along with jokes about gender, race, religion, etc) with these kinds of insensitive jokes, then I believe we are likely to lose the jokey Skips all together, IMO.

FTR, I'm giving the CM in question here the benefit of the doubt that he did not mean any harm, nor was he trying to take a dig at schizophrenics or the mentally ill. If he was, then shame on him. Hopefully the manager told each server to stick to whatever guidelines they currently have in place...and hopefully they all comply....so that we don't wind up with watered down versions of the fun like they have at 50's or Whispering Canyon, or lose the fun interaction all together.

I just used your "so it may wind up that eventually no jokes will be told" which is a sentiment that many people expressed on this thread as a jumping off point. I was definitely not talking to you specifically or laying my entire post at you... just the sentiment in general that if they can't make fun of the disabled folk it will be the end of fun at all at disney. I'm sorry I forgot to bold it and make that more clear. It was a big rant but it was not directed specifically at you.

and I agree that it should be a general discussion with everyone and no one should be getting into trouble about it (I mean the waiter). I am assuming it was not meant maliciously at all. I assume that kind of thing is a bit of a learning process for everyone. But I do think the OP pointed it out without being outraged and demanding something be done (at least from their tone). I think it's better for someone to point it out that way BEFORE someone gets offended and hurt and outraged. Then Disney might feel under the gun to be more dramatic in what they do rather than just have a little discussion about it.