An Important News Story

[Disney Daniel]

Click Here to read a news story concerning the trials and tribulations of traveling through WDW with an ECV or wheelchair. Webmaster Pete thought it was very important for the posters to see and it is something interesting to read when you have a few moments.

 

[Cameo]

Glad to read this. It's always important to see life from someone else's perspective. Thanks for the info.

 

[Kitster]

If you see a motorized vehicle coming through, GET OUT OF THE WAY!

I was always taught that the pedestrian has the right of way......in all cases. An ECV is a motorized vehicle and therefore should yield the right-of-way to pedestrians.......not the other way around. If I'm in the middle of a transaction, I'm not moving. Sorry but I was in this space first. If I'm simply carrying on a conversation or walking along the street/aisle, I'll be happy to move. No problem.

........often have little steering, acceleration, and braking quirks that sometimes don't reveal themselves during the nightly (?) PM checkout or the first half-day of a rider's familiarization.

How can I possibly get out of an ECV's way when it changes direction 15 times before deciding to go straight anyway? I can't read minds. I also can't tell you the number of times I have had to move quickly out of the way of a run-away ECV that's being driven by the grandchild of the person using the vehicle......or out of the way of ECV's being ridden by multiple people.

An ECV or motorized wheelchair is just that, a motorized vehicle. People who drive other forms of motorized vehicles are taught the 'rules of the road' and are required to pass written and driving tests before being licensed to drive. I am NOT suggesting that ECV users be subjected to the same requirements....that would just be silly. I would ask the users to be aware of the people around them and be courteous, just as the people around them should be aware of the dangers of crowding around ECV's.

When I was growing up, I was taught to treat people with disabilities no differently than I treat non-disabled people......with respect and caring. They are people and have feelings just like I do afterall. I was taught to be courteous, to say Excuse Me when I want to get past someone and most of all to say Thank You when they move.

Just because a person is non-ambulatory and relies on a wheelchair/ECV to get around does not give them the RIGHT to run into me if I don't move fast enough when they run up behind me. I don't have eyes in the back of my head, so I might not even know they're there. It does not give them the RIGHT to move at the vehicle's top speed in crowded conditions and expect people to scatter out of their way. Ambulatory visitors to Disneyland and WDW have just as much right to stroll down main street without having to constantly watch their toes.

I will make this promise to all ECV users though.........I'll watch out for you if you'll watch out for me.

 

[CarolA]

I am sorry Kister, but I have seen LOTS of people run into ECVs. They pay NO attention where they are going, walk backwards, travel in packs and stop in the middle of a major traffic flow and you expect an ECV or wheelchair to miss them!!!! Kids run directly in front of them. Just like cars these things don't stop on a dime.

Since you are lucky enought NOT to need one then I suggest you treat them with a little more caring then you show in this post.

 

[dznyntnh]

Courtesy is a two way street.

From what I've seen on most recent visits, both the ambulatory and the non-ambulatory need to learn some manners.

 

[Earstou]

On my last trip in May, I used a manual wheelchair for the first time. I was shocked by the number of people pushing strollers who would look right at me, then push their stroller right in front of me!! My DH (who was pushing) nearly dumped me one time stopping quickly so as not to hurt a baby pushed in front of us.
We felt lucky no one was hurt and were surprised that anyone would put their bundle of joy in such a situation!
I've read on the DISabilities board that you become invisible when you are in a wheelchair. Judging from the number of people that stepped directly in front of my chair (I'm talking inches, not feet) I have to concur.

 

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by Earstou
On my last trip in May, I used a manual wheelchair for the first time. I was shocked by the number of people pushing strollers who would look right at me, then push their stroller right in front of me!!

I've always thought that the best way to rob a bank would be to do on riding an ECV -- especially one from WDW! It always seems that my DW completely disappears from everyone's view as soon as she sits down on one. So she should be able to ride into the bank and ride off with a load of cash and no one would see a thing!

 

[TIdoublegaER]

WOW! What a highly offensive article! Everyone who doesn't move out of the way of someone in a wheelchair or ECV is ignorant and idiotic?? Your personal space is more important that mine? Sorry, I totally agree with Kitster. I always try to allow those who are in ECV's or wheelchairs go by or get out of the way, BUT I've had myself and my kids almost run into multiple times by non-ambulatory people who aren't paying any attention to where they are going. While I am thankful that my immediate family is not in need of a wheelchair or ECV, I certainly don't think those that do have a right to run down or cuss out those who don't move out of their way fast enough. If everyone, ambulatory and non-ambulatory alike, pays more attention to where they are going and what is going on around them, things will be much better for everyone.


As some else stated previously, courtesy is a two street.

 

[Nik's Mom]

Flame me if you must, but I agree with Kitster and TIdoublegaER.
I think both sides need to be mindful of others around them. I have seen rude behavior on both sides. I think those ECV's do go way too fast at times, espeicially in crowded conditions. And I am not saying this to be disrespectful. I have a disabled son and would not want anyone to go through what we go through...but I do think some ECV drivers are rude. Case in point, my nephew was run over in WDW a few weeks back by a lady on an ECV. My nephew saw her coming and tried to get out of the way, but couldn't because of crowd conditions. They lady ran him over, knocked him to the ground, then rode away without an apology. She didn't even slow down. I was left to attend to his injury (yes, she injured him). That makes me angry. This kid was not running around reckless. He was just walking a straight line when she ran him over. Don't get me wrong though. It wasn't the ECV that made this lady so rude. She would have been rude as person walking around too. I think it just gets to this, there are rude people anywhere, whether they are disabled or not. I just wish both sides could be more carefull. I won't run in front of you if you don't drive in front of me.
O.k., now flame me.

 

[Took]

Nik's Mom, I agree w/ you--both ambulatory and non-ambulatory people can be very rude and inconsiderate, and sometimes they act this way b/c of a bad attitutde or poor manners.

However, I have to add that not all "rude" behavior is intended as such. I really do space out sometimes at Disney, looking at the people and thinking of all the stuff I'm experiencing. It wouldn't surprise me if I've behaved rudely to those in wheelchairs, strollers, and ECV's! I might even have zoned out when the person said "excuse me" and stared at them appeared as if I were ignoring them. But I wasn't! It's easy to become overloaded at WDW, get overtired and behave more inconsiderately than you would otherwise do.

I realize that "zoning out" really doesn't excuse the bad behavior, but maybe this explanation at least takes the malice out of it. I still don't believe that most of the good people I've encountered at WDW are ill-intentioned, rude so-and-so's. Occasionally, a bit ditzy, but not mean....

I, for one, promise to try harder this next trip!

Took

 

[Nik's Mom]

Took,
So true. What may seem like rude behavior may just be a misunderstanding, or maybe we just didn't hear "excuse me". Here's hoping that both sides try to be courteous as much as possible. After all, we are all there to have a good time!

 

[seashoreCM]

Who wants to assign some uncaringness to all the other nearby people standing still and doing nothing while watching the lady ride away after hitting the child?

Do some of these ECV's have just on and off for their accelerator and when you try to make it move at all it tries to accelerate to full speed? Then the only way to make it go slow is to keep flipping the switch on and off? If so it is very hard to control.

Disney hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

I am annoyed by gas pumps that only have off and high for the nozzle trigger. I always run a cent over the dollar amount I want.

 

[dznyntnh]

As I said in my earlier post, 'Courtesy is a two way street.'

I think when many of us go on vacation we become a little (or alot depending on your predisposition) self-absorbed. I am on MY vacation, get out of MY way, MY child wants to see Mickey so get YOUR child out of the way. We tend to forget that everyone is, basically, in the same boat. It's their vacation, too.

I don't think common courtesy begins and ends with whether or not someone is in an ECV.

Everyone needs to keep in mind we all have the same goal, to have a great vacation with our family (or friends, or solo) and try harder to be courteous and understanding of others.

 

[Talking Hands]

I am not an ECV user but use a power wheelchair. Although they are electric I do not consider them vehicles. IT IS MY LEGS! An extension of me.
Because I am in a power chair I do not have the priviledge of spacing out and completely enjoying the atmosphere in the parks. I must be constantly vigilant so I don't hit IDIOTS who literally try to play chicken with my wheelchair. A person walking have more mobility and manueverability than someone in a wheelchair.
An example of idiocy: I am travelling towards Tomorrowland while this group of about five adults are coming towards me, one walking backwards. I steer as close to the curb as I can so as not to hit them. Then this guy travelling backwards decides it is time to turn around and go forward and in turning his foot goes under my wheel literally flipping me out of the chair onto the ground as the chair goes over on its side. Does this group stop to make sure I am ok. Not at all, they hightail it leaving me on the ground. Castmembers right my chair and help me back in. This was E-night. I am in so much pain that I end up going back to my hotel.
I can understand the posters irritation. Sit in a wheelchair one day at Disney and you will get a real eye opener. Yes it should be a two way street but unfortunately those who are not in wheelchairs don't seem to look at it that way. They put all the responsibility and blame on those of use who use assistive equipment to move about. We just want the right to move about in the same manner one does when they can walk. It is our way of walking and we are NOT driving but using an assistive device to walk (move about) just as your legs move you about.
Have the courtesy of giving us the room to move about freely. Two feet is not a hell of a lot of room but if you want to be safe don't walk so close to my chair that you or your bags hit my controller hand. And if you do remember it is not my fault that the chair jerked and ran over your foot. You hit me and not the other way around. And don't assume the controller is on the right. Mine is a left handed control. So 2 ft on each side and front and back.

 

[denisenh]

I think that even if you are ambulatory, people do "get in your way" and "invade your space" at WDW. I have been walking behind folks that suddenly stop walking or that decide to turn around ( I think that I have done that too). I don't think that they are idiots or rude, they are thinking about what they are thinking about. I doubt that people behave in a certain way just to aggravate a perfect stranger.
I think that so many times folks just are so ready to assume the worst about others, when, really, most people are very nice once you know them better. Just try to be as nice as you can and tolerate other people if you can't manage to like them.
And, talking hands, I too would like to "space out" and completely enjoy the atmosphere in the parks. That sounds like a lot of fun! I guess we will just have to find a spot off to the side and do just that!

 

[Talking Hands]

Sorry but when you purposely play chicken with a person in a power chair you are an IDIOT! No two ways about it. There is no excuse for walking across a wheelchair less than 6" from the chair.
And tipping over a wheelchair may be accidental but leaving the person sprawled on the ground and not helping them after you have done it is beyond the pale. There is no excuse for that.

 

[pamlet]

I'm sorry - but this article is offensive... My grandfather (years ago) was in a wheelchair as he was a double amputee. He was independent / drove a car with hand controls - and didn't have the luxury of power - he had a muscle powered wheel chair - that he pushed himself. So I'm well aware of folks with disabilities..

I think what bothered me the most about the article was this person took absolutely no responsibility for the situation. They spoke of the chair like it truly had a mind of it's own. Rude people are rude people - and operators of vehicles have a responsibility to be more aware of their surroundings. I never let me kids push the stroller or a shopping basket when we were in even moderate crowds at amusement parks or stores. They weren't as aware - and there is nothing I hate worse than being bumped from behind by a stroller or cart. (unless it's being run over by some motorized cart )

Both ambulatory and non-ambulatory folks have a responsibility for being aware of what is going on around them. If someone in an ECV is at a stop - they should look around before moving to make sure someone's feet are not under it. If you are standing next to an ECV you should be aware of where your feet are placed.

 

[Talking Hands]

Pamlet
Lets be clear. A power wheelchair is NOT a motorized vehicle. It is an assistive mobility device just the same as a regular wheelchair. It is an extension of self. It is not a luxury either. I use one bacause I cannot use a standard wheelchair due to shoulder problems. If I damage my hands, arms and shoulders I lose my career!
I would gladly trade places with anyone who is completely able bodied. In fact, I am improving and only use my power chair for long distances or all day outings. Otherwise I use a cane and my feet. Thank God I now can do this. But I know the frustrations of trying to maneuver around the parks. I can see both sides of the coin in a way no one, even someone with a family member in a wheelchair can understand.

 

[pamlet]

The point I was making that I was well aware of the frustrations of non-ambulatory folks. (Besides - power chairs probably weren't even around when grandpa was... )

I am by no means discounting the fact that anyone has to be either in a chair - or use an ECV - for whatever reason. Just that the author of the article did not seem to take responsibility for their use of the ECV - but rather "blame the ECV".

My son is epileptic - we work VERY hard at not letting him use his epilepsy as a crutch. I know he has to work harder in school - with both his fear (and mine) of having a seizure in class - as well as his medication making him "foggy". BUT we still hold him to the fact this it is his responsibility to get homework done, stay polite, behave properly (ok - that sounds like typical worries with a teenager - but believe me - it's compounded with a kid who doesn't know if he's going to fall out of the chair in math class). I worry all the time - not only about the epilepsy - but about the fact that it would be easy for him to think of himself as a victim. That would only do more to diminish his self esteem.

I've read your trip reports and comments - and you certainly don't view yourself as a victim - instead you go about and do what you want - when you want - and certainly with seeming good humor However there are a lot of folks out there - ambulatory - non-ambulatory - that are NOT of good humor - and always consider themselves the victim - that only serves to make them miserable - and those who have to come in contact with them.

The issue for me isn't whether they are in a wheelchair / ECV or Nikes - if someone doesn't take responibilty for themselves - whether physically or emotionally - then they are truly a sad person.

 

[crzy4dsny]

I think there are people in every catagory who are just idiots. People pushing strollers, people in ecv's, wheelchairs, and just plain walking. I consider myself to be a considerate person. I will hold the door for you, say please and thank you, move as far over as I can when passing on a walkway. I will move aside and let someone go first if we meet at the same point at the same time. The way I navigate Disney and any other public place is as if I were driving a car. Stay to the right, making sure it's clear before entering a walkway or isle. Everyone works together and every thing will go smothly.

As far as people in ecv's I have mixed feelings on them. I don't think they have the right away over anybody else. Some of them think they do. We have all had a bad experiance with them at one time or another. For the most part I will give them all the room they need. One ran over the wheel of my stroller once pinning it underneath. I was walking into The Beauty & The Beast Show. There was a crowd of people waiting in a big group. When they started to let everyone in I started moving foward. I was moving foward in a straight line alongside many other people who were also walking straight ahead. Out of the corner of my eye on the right, I saw an ecv coming across at an angle heading toward me. She kept moving closer and closer pushing me to the left. I picked up the rear wheels of my stroller and moved it as far to the left as possible, right next to another stroller. Still, she kept pressing into me trying her hardest to cut me off and get in front of me. My daughter was not in the stroller. So I said I am not going to stop for this idiot and let her get in front of me. She was wrong, I was right. I guess she was determined to get in front of me and didn't care either. She ran my stroller wheel over pinning it underneath.

Now she was stuck. She tried going foward, backwards, turning. I had to raise my voice to get her to stop before she tore my stroller to pieces. I then lifted her ecv off the stroller wheels. And of cource to her it was all my fault and she had a few things to say to me. My wife had to set her straight because I don't get into confrontations with women. If we were both driving cars she would have been 100% at fault. This time I didn't feel like giving up the right of way that I had. Now that I look back maybe I should have.

If your still with me, the point Im trying to make is that the idiots remain in your mind. All the good people in ecv's, wheelchairs's, pushing strollers, and just plain walking do not. They are not even a thought in your mind because they don't have to be. If we all gave just a little bit more, the world would be a much better place.