Friends refusing to pay for their dinner

[fly girl]

OP here. DS came home from school yesterday saying his friend (son of the couple who owe us money) told him he’s not allowed to come over to our house anymore because we’re “not nice people”. So if they want to hang out it has to be at his house. DS asked me why they think we’re not nice people and I just told him that there were adult issues happening but he knows that we’re nice people and that sometimes people can be upset at you even though you didn’t do anything wrong.

As for my son going to their house to play, I’m not very comfortable with that at the moment, so for now they’ll see each other at school and maybe at the house of a mutual friend or at the local park.

Still haven’t heard anything from the couple since they blocked me everywhere and I don’t expect to. I have heard from a mutual acquaintance that the wife was telling people to stay away from us but everyone knows what really happened. The same acquaintance also has known this woman much longer than me and said she’s always creating some kind of drama and that everyone takes everything she says with a grain of salt.

I’ve never experienced this kind of behavior and I’m still shocked by it. Not just the money but how she acted when I asked for it back. Judging from how they purposely ordered expensive food and drinks after they both “forgot their wallets” I’m thinking this was done purposely and it’s probably not the first time they’ve done it. Hopefully they don’t do it to someone else.

And there's your answer! She cannot separate adult from child. I would never feel comfortable having my child in her presence without me, they will be strictly school/sports friends. She has shown her true colors, deflecting and telling her son that you are "not nice people" is everything I need to know. To me that gives off sirens that this could lead to a potential set up to get back at you through the children. That is despicable to me. Children are innocent and she is using them as pawns. That is messed up beyond all means, STAY FAR AWAY!!

It is no surprise she is bashing you to mutual friends. If they are dumb enough to believe it, then good riddance. They weren't a true friend anyway. Sounds like the majority has this woman's number though.

Consider yourself lucky that this is your first time dealing with these types of people. Out $200, but like a PP said may positive karma blow in your direction and give it back to you.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

But nobody is describing everyone as bad.

I said at some point. The response is coming from the multitude of quite severe reactions to the initial situation, if that's people's definition of bad people (which you yourself said you would warn your child from bad people and I don't disagree with that perspective as a whole it is a slippery slope and one you would model for your child. It's a dinner that went unpaid with people who like to draw others in on their drama but look how much drama would be created if the OP had done even a fraction of what people suggested. At what point do you (general you) become just like those you warn against.

The children end up being the losers in the adults' games.

 

[Disneylover99]

DS asked me why they think we’re not nice people and I just told him that there were adult issues happening but he knows that we’re nice people and that sometimes people can be upset at you even though you didn’t do anything wrong.

Since your son is asking about the situation. I’d be honest and simply tell him the truth of what happened. Just do it in a matter of fact type of way. It’s a good discussion to have.

 

[longboard55]

I have a sister in law who had done many really mean things to family members. After going through a lot of questioning we finally concluded it was a case of mental illness. Nothing we can do. Understand the situation and move on

 

[RUDisney]

I have a sister in law who had done many really mean things to family members. After going through a lot of questioning we finally concluded it was a case of mental illness. Nothing we can do. Understand the situation and move on

We have the same SIL. I've learned to ignore the vitriol. We have to keep her in our lives until her mother passes and then all of her siblings are in agreement that she no longer will exist and we do not have to have anything to do with her, unless we are pressed to sit with her at a wedding or see her at a funeral. Perhaps someday she will seek the help that she needs.

 

[mjkacmom]

And there's your answer! She cannot separate adult from child. I would never feel comfortable having my child in her presence without me, they will be strictly school/sports friends. She has shown her true colors, deflecting and telling her son that you are "not nice people" is everything I need to know. To me that gives off sirens that this could lead to a potential set up to get back at you through the children. That is despicable to me. Children are innocent and she is using them as pawns. That is messed up beyond all means, STAY FAR AWAY!!

It is no surprise she is bashing you to mutual friends. If they are dumb enough to believe it, then good riddance. They weren't a true friend anyway. Sounds like the majority has this woman's number though.

Consider yourself lucky that this is your first time dealing with these types of people. Out $200, but like a PP said may positive karma blow in your direction and give it back to you.

And yet folks were encouraging the OP to tell her son that they are bad people. My parents had several social circles, it wasn’t until I was in my 30’s or so to learn about a few people my mom couldn’t stand, I had no clue.

 

[Tuffcookie]

OP here. DS came home from school yesterday saying his friend (son of the couple who owe us money) told him he’s not allowed to come over to our house anymore because we’re “not nice people”. So if they want to hang out it has to be at his house. DS asked me why they think we’re not nice people and I just told him that there were adult issues happening but he knows that we’re nice people and that sometimes people can be upset at you even though you didn’t do anything wrong.

As for my son going to their house to play, I’m not very comfortable with that at the moment, so for now they’ll see each other at school and maybe at the house of a mutual friend or at the local park.

Still haven’t heard anything from the couple since they blocked me everywhere and I don’t expect to. I have heard from a mutual acquaintance that the wife was telling people to stay away from us but everyone knows what really happened. The same acquaintance also has known this woman much longer than me and said she’s always creating some kind of drama and that everyone takes everything she says with a grain of salt.

I’ve never experienced this kind of behavior and I’m still shocked by it. Not just the money but how she acted when I asked for it back. Judging from how they purposely ordered expensive food and drinks after they both “forgot their wallets” I’m thinking this was done purposely and it’s probably not the first time they’ve done it. Hopefully they don’t do it to someone else.

They will do it again because you gave them a free pass. That’s why I told you to take them to small claims courts. It will be on record, in case anyone wants to look it up!

 

[Pink Partridge]

It's a dinner that went unpaid

To me it is a well planned theft of $200+.

And then when asked to repay the money, the woman refused and began badmouthing the OP.

I find people like that to be scary. They have no shame and lie to themselves and others. They don't know right from wrong. It is our job as parents to protect our children from people like that and not allow contact.

Hopefully the boys have fun at recess together.

 

[irlandaise]

making them stop being friends, bad mouthing their parents to your son and all the other stuff was and still is IMO over the top.

The general tone in this thread has been nothing like that. It's been "protect the son without putting the parents' issues on him." And indeed, that's exactly what the OP has been doing. Again I applaud how she has responded to her son's questions honestly but without dragging him into the parents' feud.

 

[fly girl]

And yet folks were encouraging the OP to tell her son that they are bad people. My parents had several social circles, it wasn’t until I was in my 30’s or so to learn about a few people my mom couldn’t stand, I had no clue.

I need to go back and reread that someone explicitly said to tell her son they were bad people. I don't recall that; and like you, I do not agree with it either. That is getting the kids involved, exact opposite of what I would want.

However, after the OP's son was told the "not nice people" line, this can be a way to teach that grown up problems sometimes affect kids even when it shouldn't. I wouldn't bash the other parents to the son as it serves no purpose, but I would explain how I wish it was different but sometimes it is out of our control. And that I still want my son to be friends with him, but sadly playing at each other's house can't happen right now.

That's the thing, you can provide a suitable explanation without giving all the nitty gritty details. Put it at their level, make sure they know it isn't fault of either child, just an unfortunate occurrence.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

To me it is a well planned theft of $200+.

And then when asked to repay the money, the woman refused and began badmouthing the OP.

I find people like that to be scary. They have no shame and lie to themselves and others. They don't know right from wrong. It is our job as parents to protect our children from people like that and not allow contact.

Hopefully the boys have fun at recess together.

We're talking about the son, I had already said to ebb back on contact with the parents, in fact I said they are acting like their supply so keeping it civil, because of the shared social atmosphere of the children, is best rather than maintaining themselves as a supply. And trust that a lot of the stuff like suing (over the dinner), gossiping to all who would hear, posting on social media, etc all plays right into these people's hands. I've always said to reduce the contact with the parents but to prohibit the children from being friends? That I disagreed with.

You're not really saying anything new with respects to how I viewed the parents so I'm not sure if you read all my comments or just jumped on at the end, although I don't find those people scary per se they do know what they are doing. And because they do know what they are doing they are best avoided, the shared social interactions means removing the parents getting together for dinner and the talking about the DVC trips and really all of that, conversation reduced to simply about the pertinent details about the kids. If no kids were even involved it would be more straight to the point of just no longer interacting.

I will disagree, which shouldn't be a surprise given my comments to other posters on the subject, about just how to protect your children. But it is within your right to do what you see fit.

 

[Marrila]

That's the thing, you can provide a suitable explanation without giving all the nitty gritty details. Put it at their level, make sure they know it isn't fault of either child, just an unfortunate occurrence.

I agree with above. And then you move on. Maybe some some after school library visits or whatever, stay kinda busy.

 

[mjkacmom]

I need to go back and reread that someone explicitly said to tell her son they were bad people. I don't recall that; and like you, I do not agree with it either. That is getting the kids involved, exact opposite of what I would want.

However, after the OP's son was told the "not nice people" line, this can be a way to teach that grown up problems sometimes affect kids even when it shouldn't. I wouldn't bash the other parents to the son as it serves no purpose, but I would explain how I wish it was different but sometimes it is out of our control. And that I still want my son to be friends with him, but sadly playing at each other's house can't happen right now.

That's the thing, you can provide a suitable explanation without giving all the nitty gritty details. Put it at their level, make sure they know it isn't fault of either child, just an unfortunate occurrence.

Agreed, but I wouldn’t tell my child the actual issue, or call them thieves.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The general tone in this thread has been nothing like that. It's been "protect the son without putting the parents' issues on him." And indeed, that's exactly what the OP has been doing. Again I applaud how she has responded to her son's questions honestly but without dragging him into the parents' feud.

The first part of the thread was quite neutral enough, it was basically take it as a loss and disentangle yourself from the so-called friendship. Towards the middle and end it took on a very different tone. It's a bit hard to post on social media pages and social circles, gossip to all who would hear, take someone to small claims court, prohibit a friendship and more without the kid at least finding out things, plus it was the pre-supposition that the child of the parents in question would do something bad just like their parents. I've not disagreed with protecting, I've disagreed with the manner in which people would suggest protecting means to them.

I am not speaking towards what the OP has done but what others have suggested the OP to do, I have also said it didn't appear the OP would/was giving the indication they would do what others were suggesting.

 

[Pink Partridge]

....plus it was the pre-supposition that the child of the parents in question would do something bad just like their parents.

Oh wow. I did not see that. I do not agree with saying the child would be bad too. That is sad for the little boy. Just because your parents are bad people doesn't make the child bad.

I just would not allow my child to be around the thieves.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Oh wow. I did not see that. I do not agree with saying the child would be bad too. That is sad for the little boy. Just because your parents are bad people doesn't make the child bad.

I just would not allow my child to be around the thieves.

Yeah it was "you know it's probably just a matter of time before his friend, taking his cues from his parents, will do something that will hurt your son." That comment is what prompted me to re-enter the thread and talk mostly about not agreeing with prohibiting the friendship most especially when the son of the other parents hadn't done anything.

 

[goofyernmost]

I hear ya but at the same time you can't do that for every single situation and frankly the greatest risk of things is at school around peers something of which you have very little control over and thus need to lean more into what you teach your child. My point was really for something like this it's a really good opportunity for the child of the OP IF they were even to have something to be able to have the agency to know what to do maybe that is as simple as you saying let me know if there is anything kinda out of the ordinary said to you by the parent. Yanking the child away from the friend who hasn't done anything does what exactly for the child of the OP to understand for future situations, what does the child then learn to do when they may be faced with individuals like this, and is that even the right decision to do that when the child hasn't done anything to show they even know about their parents behavior much less would agree with their parents behavior, etc

I think this is even more the case to not go overboard like was suggested when we know most friendships don't last or aren't super strong as time goes on so would this even be something that is a certainty to happen? It's just not serious enough of a situation to take such extreme precautions and when your parent goes overboard like that you can adopt that behavior in a negative way. Thinking for yourself is not something youth of today have been able to use nearly as much as they should and countless studies have shown kids as they get older struggle when their parents exert too much control on their abilities to make decisions including just who they can be friends with. To me the threshold for going protective parent to the Nth degree is not met at this point in time based on solely what the OP has said.

I never said it was absolutely couldn't happen, I said that of all the people our kids meet, the likelihood that they would end up as life long friends is not real good. So, instead of something that is a long shot, I would eliminate the thing that is more likely to happen and that they would use ones child as a pawn in their con game. Remember that they did that already, the reason they went out to dinner was because of the connection of the kids. I know that was one of the reasons that my wife and I had friends with people that were otherwise strangers until our child starting playtime with their child. Some works out alright, but in OP's case I would drop any connection like a sundrenched metal handle.

One's job as a parent, other than teaching them right from wrong, is to protect them from problems until they are old enough to recognize a bad situation and self judge the situation. A lot of things happen in our childhoods that not only do we not remember that happened even if someone reminds us about it. This to me is one of those thing. I don't see any ginormous bond happening and if they still remember it by the time they reach the age of reason and more importantly, reasoning, then a simple explanation of why that happened can be explained successfully.

P.S. After posting the above post, I went back a couple posts and see that what I said about making the children a pawn in their little game played out. They deprived your child and told his friend that "they were not nice people". I know what with the current situation in this country the guilt trip was set up and now they are asking you to prove that you are not bad people by using the kids as the pawns. Do not forgive the non-payment and remind them of it whenever you can. HOWEVER, BREAK IT OFF CLEAN. You don't have to tell him the details, just the they did something that you do not agree with and you don't think that is right. I think that you can tell him that you can play with him at school, but it will be likely that they have brainwashed their son into not wanting too. Such is life, sometimes.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I never said it was absolutely couldn't happen, I said that of all the people our kids meet, the likelihood that they would end up as life long friends is not real good. So, instead of something that is a long shot, I would eliminate the thing that is more likely to happen and that they would use ones child as a pawn in their con game.

One's job as a parent, other than teaching them right from wrong, is to protect them from problems until they are old enough to recognize a bad situation and self judge the situation. A lot of things happen in our childhoods that not only do we not remember that happened even if someone reminds us about it. This to me is one of those thing. I don't see any ginormous bond happening and if they still remember it by the time they reach the age of reason and more importantly, reasoning, then a simple explanation of why that happened can be explained successfully

Yes in the world of fleeting friendship from youths you can also count on natural reduction in friendships just over time. It's so contradictory to acknowledge that the friendships are unlikely to be lifelong, that they won't have a ginormous bond and yet treat it as if that child will have the most profound influence on the child or even be friends next week lol.

Obviously it should go without saying it's age appropriate, a 5 year old is not the same as a 12 year old in terms of teaching trust in making their own decisions but arming them with the knowledge on how to make good ones. But truly you were not describing using age appropriate considerations, it was stop the friendship because it's only a matter of time before the child of the parents does something like his parents.

Truly we can acknowledge that friendships often fade away so why not discuss, depending on how it comes about, xyz and go from there, flygirl's comment was pretty spot on to how I felt about what to do. What you are suggesting is playing an adults game with children as the pawns, there's no way about that one, only you think the other parents are the only ones who are icky people, me I see a more blurred line.

 

[fly girl]

Agreed, but I wouldn’t tell my child the actual issue, or call them thieves.

100% agree, that is getting them involved. The actual issue has nothing to do with the kids. No need.

 

[tjmw2727]

Not surprising - I would communicate with your son honestly (as I said upthread) how much depends on the age. Something like we adults had a disagreement over dinner last week and I am not sure if/when we will be able to work it out. It has nothing to do with you or your friend but for now I guess its best if you spend time together at school, actives or mutual friends' homes.

My two dd's are adults now and I have been on both sides of this. Offhand once with an adult friend who tried to throw me under the bus with our other friends for something they did (didn't work) but we managed to make sure the kids were able to maintain their friendships. I did limit the 1-1 exposure with this one Mom when my dd was younger. Some of those friendships are still ongoing!